Did Pope Francis help the church by going woke?

[Paradoxical#1]

And I tends to disengage from discussion with those who are determined to twist Biblical verses to suit their own purposes rather than relying on the author's original intent to his original audience.

By the way...I do not want anyone to believe as I do. Everyone is their own person, and to buy into another's beliefs without doing his/her own work and learning through their own experiences, is wasting the person they are.

On the contrary, you do want me and everyone else to believe as you do in order to validate your beliefs. Otherwise, you wouldn’t give a wit what I believe or anyone else does if you were solid in your own beliefs.

It is a common employee among more learned Christians to say that someone else isn’t interpreting scriptures properly and if they knew Hebrew or coin, Greek or what you do, that they certainly would agree with the your interpretation.

As you may detect, this isn’t my first rodeo and debating with Christians and I only do it when I am bored and I need a break. My favorite thing to do now is to argue with the hard left and tell them that the techniques that they use today of fear, guilt, shining, and Canceling is identical to what Christian do. The hate it when I tell them that they are in a cult every bit as much as Catholics are and the identical tactics of mind control, and indoctrination that have been used since the beginning of itself.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I said the Lords prayer tens of thousands of times. The primary ways to indoctrinate humanity is to repeat something over and over and over again until your mind believes it to be true. This is why commercials are run repeatedly. The rosary beads are a perfect example of indoctrination by repetition. If there is any loving God out there that delights in someone saying the Lord‘s prayer over and over That is the most preposterous God anyone could ever imagine.

You are saying that Jesus wants you to pray for something that Jesus wants? How would anyone ever know that? So what is your plan that you keep saying different prayers until you say the one that Jesus wants? This sounds very absurd to me.

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Oh, kind of like

ORANGE MAN BAD?








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[otto105]

No. I don't believe I am proving you need a questionnaire. I think I proved you don't read the bible in context. As for was the bible written by or inspired by God... that's a more complex question. Technically anything which is true is the word of God as God is truth among other "things." Let's take the account of George Washington and the cherry tree as an analog. George didn't really chop down a cherry tree and say I cannot tell a lie. That wasn't the point the author was trying to make. The point the author was trying to make is that George Washington was an honorable man which was true. The whole cherry tree thing was an embellishment to make the account more memorable and easier to remember to pass down which is the same thing that is occurring in the first 11 chapters of Genesis. That you can't decipher the points the authors' were trying to make reflects on you, not the authors.

But this conversation is on laws. There's no embellishments going on there. What you are reading is a people codifying standards that were materially different for their day. They were literally raising the bar; raising the standard. So when I see people doing like you are doing by comparing this to today's standard, I can't help but say that you are taking these passages out of context and criticizing something that was a positive to make it look like a negative. Are you so against Judeo-Christianity that you are willing to suspend being objective? Or is that you lack the intellectual capacity to do so.

Damn


Way the hell didn’t focus on the burning hot issues of jesus of abortion and gender.

God knows that poor people and disadvantaged were never fucking mentioned in the bible.

 

[Meriweather]

I said the Lords prayer tens of thousands of times. The primary ways to indoctrinate humanity is to repeat something over and over and over again until your mind believes it to be true. This is why commercials are run repeatedly. The rosary beads are a perfect example of indoctrination by repetition. If there is any loving God out there that delights in someone saying the Lord‘s prayer over and over That is the most preposterous God anyone could ever imagine.

You were never taught the Lord's prayer is more than a prayer to be repeated!?! You weren't taught it is an outline for one's personal prayer, communication with the Father?

Let's take the first line: Our Father, who are in heaven... Where are you going with this? What is happening around you?

Now let's take it with the rosary: The rosary is to meditate and contemplate the life of Jesus. The prayers being said is background cadence to keep one focused on the life and teachings of Jesus. Sometimes that contemplation is on the mysteries of Jesus life, but it doesn't need to be mysteries. When I pray the rosary, sometimes I choose to contemplate on Jesus' parables or the Beatitudes, or healing, or miracles or....etc.

I don't always use the rosary in prayer, specifically contemplative prayer, perhaps my favorite method of prayer, but it sure is a jump start when I run into a dry spell. I also use the Divine Mercy Chaplet, wonderful background for the Stations of the Cross.

The Our Father can also be the candle/background/setting so one can quietly listen to God's Word to us.

You are saying that Jesus wants you to pray for something that Jesus wants? How would anyone ever know that? So what is your plan that you keep saying different prayers until you say the one that Jesus wants? This sounds very absurd to me.

Jesus' wants salvation and redemption for the world. He wants us to help or comfort those in need. He wants peacemakers, the merciful, the pure of heart, trust in God's ways, pursuit of holiness, the single-hearted so that we can see God. Look around at what is happening around you. What would Jesus do if he was right there next to you as the events of your daily life unfolded?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Damn


Way the hell didn’t focus on the burning hot issues of jesus of abortion and gender.

God knows that poor people and disadvantaged were never fucking mentioned in the bible.

Most likely because no one kniws what Jesus said, except for writings by anonymous people who made claims of what he said, many decades after he died. Those anonymous people could not know about anything except their day and time. However, if it really was Jesus or God writing or inspiring the Bible, they would have known. But they didn’t and that’s why the writings are all about the chosen people who happen to be in that small little corner of the planet earth.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You were never taught the Lord's prayer is more than a prayer to be repeated!?! You weren't taught it is an outline for one's personal prayer, communication with the Father?

Let's take the first line: Our Father, who are in heaven... Where are you going with this? What is happening around you?

Now let's take it with the rosary: The rosary is to meditate and contemplate the life of Jesus. The prayers being said is background cadence to keep one focused on the life and teachings of Jesus. Sometimes that contemplation is on the mysteries of Jesus life, but it doesn't need to be mysteries. When I pray the rosary, sometimes I choose to contemplate on Jesus' parables or the Beatitudes, or healing, or miracles or....etc.

I don't always use the rosary in prayer, specifically contemplative prayer, perhaps my favorite method of prayer, but it sure is a jump start when I run into a dry spell. I also use the Divine Mercy Chaplet, wonderful background for the Stations of the Cross.

The Our Father can also be the candle/background/setting so one can quietly listen to God's Word to us.



Jesus' wants salvation and redemption for the world. He wants us to help or comfort those in need. He wants peacemakers, the merciful, the pure of heart, trust in God's ways, pursuit of holiness, the single-hearted so that we can see God. Look around at what is happening around you. What would Jesus do if he was right there next to you as the events of your daily life unfolded?

I Don’t need an imaginary friend like you do. I don’t need to pray to any invisible being begging for mercy and begging for this of that. This here is all we have and this is a life that we should live for rather than waiting for something after death and hoping that we got it right.

 

[ding]

Your premise is "Paul had a vision and I believe him, and if you don't you have to prove he did not have a vision with evidence he did not."

BTW, you believe in Paulianity anyway. He refuted almost everything Jesus said. At least what the unknown writers of the NT wrote that Jesus said.

No. That's your premise. Why do you keep ignoring the historical evidence of the first Christians and the non-Christian historians that recorded it? It seems to me that the heart of this debate is did Jesus control matter, control nature, heal physical deformities, heal diseases, raise the dead and resurrect himself from death. You are off on some idiotic tangent that has no material bearing on did Jesus really do the things recorded in the NT.

 

[otto105]

Most likely because no one kniws what Jesus said, except for writings by anonymous people who made claims of what he said, many decades after he died. Those anonymous people could not know about anything except their day and time. However, if it really was Jesus or God writing or inspiring the Bible, they would have known. But they didn’t and that’s why the writings are all about the chosen people who happen to be in that small little corner of the planet earth.

Or the made up words.

 

[ding]

The ones written decades and even centuries later you mean? By unknown people who were not eyewitnesses? THOSE manuscripts?

Yes. Compared to other events in antiquity both timing, number and quality of manuscripts are unparalleled.

And then there's the small matter of the historical evidence of the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God, non-Christian historians recording the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God and the Jewish Babylonian Talmud which recorded that Jesus was put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy. How do you explain all of that historical EVIDENCE?

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

You were never taught the Lord's prayer is more than a prayer to be repeated!?! You weren't taught it is an outline for one's personal prayer, communication with the Father?

Let's take the first line: Our Father, who are in heaven... Where are you going with this? What is happening around you?

Now let's take it with the rosary: The rosary is to meditate and contemplate the life of Jesus. The prayers being said is background cadence to keep one focused on the life and teachings of Jesus. Sometimes that contemplation is on the mysteries of Jesus life, but it doesn't need to be mysteries. When I pray the rosary, sometimes I choose to contemplate on Jesus' parables or the Beatitudes, or healing, or miracles or....etc.

I don't always use the rosary in prayer, specifically contemplative prayer, perhaps my favorite method of prayer, but it sure is a jump start when I run into a dry spell. I also use the Divine Mercy Chaplet, wonderful background for the Stations of the Cross.

The Our Father can also be the candle/background/setting so one can quietly listen to God's Word to us.



Jesus' wants salvation and redemption for the world. He wants us to help or comfort those in need. He wants peacemakers, the merciful, the pure of heart, trust in God's ways, pursuit of holiness, the single-hearted so that we can see God. Look around at what is happening around you. What would Jesus do if he was right there next to you as the events of your daily life unfolded?

.

There's nothing cooler that the first three or four people starting the Rosary before Mass, and by the time we reach the end, the church is full and the voice gets loud and we're all breathing in unison. Then the altar servers ring the bell.

That's what the word "inspiration" means.


.

 

[Meriweather]

On the contrary, you do want me and everyone else to believe as you do in order to validate your beliefs. Otherwise, you wouldn’t give a wit what I believe or anyone else does if you were solid in your own beliefs.

Sorry, I don't need anyone to validate my beliefs as those have been validated by the highest authority. I am a teacher, and I have had lots of time and opportunity to do a deep dive into the Bible via languages, culture, history. So many people do not have decades to spend doing this. So, I research and teach, to offer paragraph summaries of the etymology, history, culture of the Bible. Perhaps a few read. A few of the few may get something out of it. Others don't get anything out of it and still others strongly disagree. Guess what? I don't give a wit about what you believe or what anyone else does either as that is outside my realm which is research. I throw out the seed, but if anything has ever sprouted (and I'm not sure any have) it us up to the Holy Spirit to take it from there.

It is a common employee among more learned Christians to say that someone else isn’t interpreting scriptures properly and if they knew Hebrew or coin, Greek or what you do, that they certainly would agree with the your interpretation.

Again, all I offer the forum is brief summaries of years of research. It is there to be ignored or read, to think about or to let slide into oblivion and be forgotten. I enjoy what I do, and my enjoyment is all that matters to me. You don't, not even an iota. Hopefully, that is a comforting thought for you and you can stop worrying/agonizing that I'm trying to change your beliefs.

As you may detect, this isn’t my first rodeo and debating with Christians and I only do it when I am bored and I need a break. My favorite thing to do now is to argue with the hard left and tell them that the techniques that they use today of fear, guilt, shining, and Canceling is identical to what Christian do. The hate it when I tell them that they are in a cult every bit as much as Catholics are and the identical tactics of mind control, and indoctrination that have been used since the beginning of itself.

Well, as you don't seem to know what Christians do, I'm guessing you know as little about what the Left is doing, especially if you don't bother listening to them.

 

[Eman623]

Francis was in no way a "woke" pope. He was absolutely opposed to abortion and believed life began at conception. He was also utterly opposed to same-sex marriage in the Church or women becoming priests.

He was more open to the notion of priests marrying women, but even then his support was only theoretical. While this is a disciplinary and not a doctrinal rule, the Roman Catholic Church to this day will not allow priests to marry.

OTOH, Francis was definitely a liberation-theology Socialist style pope. Not unlike Jesus who if he were preaching today would be called a Communist by many.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

No. That's your premise. Why do you keep ignoring the historical evidence of the first Christians and the non-Christian historians that recorded it? It seems to me that the heart of this debate is did Jesus control matter, control nature, heal physical deformities, heal diseases, raise the dead and resurrect himself from death. You are off on some idiotic tangent that has no material bearing on did Jesus really do the things recorded in the NT.

Tell me about all the non Christians who recorded any events about Jesus or people rising from their graves when he allegedly resurrected. The very first one was Pliny the younger in about 110 AD

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Yes. Compared to other events in antiquity both timing, number and quality of manuscripts are unparalleled.

And then there's the small matter of the historical evidence of the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God, non-Christian historians recording the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God and the Jewish Babylonian Talmud which recorded that Jesus was put to death for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy. How do you explain all of that historical EVIDENCE?

Even today millions were convinced that Hunters laptop was Russian disinformation and that Trump colluded with Russia to help the election. Therefore, whatever people believed at that time is not evidence at all. It just amounts to saying that people believed. So??

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Sorry, I don't need anyone to validate my beliefs as those have been validated by the highest authority. I am a teacher, and I have had lots of time and opportunity to do a deep dive into the Bible via languages, culture, history. So many people do not have decades to spend doing this. So, I research and teach, to offer paragraph summaries of the etymology, history, culture of the Bible. Perhaps a few read. A few of the few may get something out of it. Others don't get anything out of it and still others strongly disagree. Guess what? I don't give a wit about what you believe or what anyone else does either as that is outside my realm which is research. I throw out the seed, but if anything has ever sprouted (and I'm not sure any have) it us up to the Holy Spirit to take it from there.


Again, all I offer the forum is brief summaries of years of research. It is there to be ignored or read, to think about or to let slide into oblivion and be forgotten. I enjoy what I do, and my enjoyment is all that matters to me. You don't, not even an iota. Hopefully, that is a comforting thought for you and you can stop worrying/agonizing that I'm trying to change your beliefs.



Well, as you don't seem to know what Christians do, I'm guessing you know as little about what the Left is doing, especially if you don't bother listening to them.

Again, it is a common ploy for Christians to say that someone else doesn’t know Christianity. If that were true, why are there numerous denominations, all of which think that they, and they alone, hold the truth?

 

[Meriweather]

Again, it is a common ploy for Christians to say that someone else doesn’t know Christianity. If that were true, why are there numerous denominations, all of which think that they, and they alone, hold the truth?

This doesn't make sense. It's like a fourth grader telling a first grader they don't know math because they don't know how to multiply. Have you ever read Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle? She compares the Christian journey as exploring the countless rooms of a seven story castle. Just like a fourth grader is not in the same room as a first grader exploring the world on his level, I sometimes see the different Christian denominations as the same way. We have a vast spiritual world to explore at our own pace, and all of us have more to learn.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

This doesn't make sense. It's like a fourth grader telling a first grader they don't know math because they don't know how to multiply. Have you ever read Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle? She compares the Christian journey as exploring the countless rooms of a seven story castle. Just like a fourth grader is not in the same room as a first grader exploring the world on his level, I sometimes see the different Christian denominations as the same way. We have a vast spiritual world to explore at our own pace, and all of us have more to learn.

I gather that you think any denomination then is correct? You are aware that millions of people do not agree with your opinions? Calvinist think they are right. Mormons think they are right. Seventh-Day Seventh-day Adventists think they are right. And on and on. Every single one of them thinks they are a true Christian. Not all of them can be right and there is a fair chance that they are more right than you. Your book learning and your education does not equal truth.

 

[Meriweather]

I gather that you think any denomination then is correct? You are aware that millions of people do not agree with your opinions? Calvinist think they are right. Mormons think they are right. Seventh-Day Seventh-day Adventists think they are right. And on and on. Every single one of them thinks they are a true Christian. Not all of them can be right and there is a fair chance that they are more right than you. Your book learning and your education does not equal truth.

As I said in an earlier post, I have great faith in the Holy Spirit. I believe God meets us where we are and from there draws us closer to Him. Just as I would not tell a first grader he is wrong for not being in third grade, I would not--and have not--told anyone (not even my atheist family members) they should be Catholic. It's none of my business. That being said, as you already know, I am not shy about putting forth Catholic teaching. People can read my posts about the Catholic faith and Catholic teaching, but not once in my years posting in religion forums have I ever told anyone he/she should convert to Catholicism. I'm not the Holy Spirit.

Being right is not a concern of mine. I tend to think in possibilities and grey areas. I am quite willing to leave who is right about what and who is wrong about the other until the afterlife. After all, I don't even know which of my own possibilities is correct.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

As I said in an earlier post, I have great faith in the Holy Spirit. I believe God meets us where we are and from there draws us closer to Him. Just as I would not tell a first grader he is wrong for not being in third grade, I would not--and have not--told anyone (not even my atheist family members) they should be Catholic. It's none of my business. That being said, as you already know, I am not shy about putting forth Catholic teaching. People can read my posts about the Catholic faith and Catholic teaching, but not once in my years posting in religion forums have I ever told anyone he/she should convert to Catholicism. I'm not the Holy Spirit.

Being right is not a concern of mine. I tend to think in possibilities and grey areas. I am quite willing to leave who is right about what and who is wrong about the other until the afterlife. After all, I don't even know which of my own possibilities is correct.

May I ask good as your Catholicism if everyone is right?

 

[Meriweather]

May I ask good as your Catholicism if everyone is right?

Are you asking, "What good is Catholicism if everyone is right?"

First, is it a fair conclusion that being right is either all important, or at least very important, to you? Next, there are over seven thousand languages in the world. Which is the right language? In football, is it passing that is right, or is it running that is right? How about kicking? In baseball, is it the fast ball or the curve ball that is right? In an earlier post you told of a debate you were having with someone and you were pleased that person told you that you were right. That's why I am guessing being right is of true importance to you. It may be why you don't understand my position of being right is of little import. I'll explain.

I focus more on the goal. Which is the right language, the right sports move, the right religion? The answer is the one that get you closer to your goal. The 'right' language to use is the one that enables you to communicate with those around you. In sports, the 'right' play is the one that brings victory. In religion the 'right' religion is the one which brings you closer to God. It's not about "right" it is about the goal.

I've contemplated that if the Catholic/Orthodox religion did not exist, which religion would bring me closer to God. None of the Protestant denominations could, nor could the LDS church, nor Islam, Buddhism, etc. Via the Catholic faith I was able to draw very close to God, and none of those other religions could have helped me in achieving this goal. So...if Catholicism wasn't a choice, which religion would I choose? Judaism. It is the other religion/faith that would be most likely to draw me close to God.

This led me to wondering why Protestants would not choose Catholicism. My conclusion on that is that many Protestants find too much within the Catholic faith that distracts them. Remember the Puritans? They removed all art from their meeting places/churches because they believed it was too distracting. Why leave Christ on the crucifix, and why do so many crucifixes have a skull beneath Jesus' feet at the foot of the cross. Pointless, they conclude as Jesus is no longer on the cross. For Catholics, the cross and its symbols tell a great story worth meditating on and contemplating--and bringing into our lives--every time we view the crucifix.

This is the importance of the Holy Spirit. We are all unique people, and the Holy Spirit knows how to work with those who are distracted by Catholic practices and teachings which keeps them further from God--and those who delve into Catholicism because it draws them ever closer to God. The goal is the same: Which religion brings each individual closer to God. I could not do it without Catholicism, but some can't seem to do it with Catholicism. Just like sometimes a passing game works, and sometimes a running game works.

Let's go back to you and your goal of shredding the Bible and the Catholic faith. Is it your goal to prove you are right?