Did Obama Save GM?

[Yurt]

you failed to actually answer the question...how did these "policies" you speak of cause gm and chrysler's problems? answer with specifics dante. what specific bush policy(s) caused their collapse?

contributed to the collapse.

please don't bore me with rephrasing what I actually say.

"Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause..."

i knew you would puss out on answering the question....you can't specifically point out how "he helped cause it"....i did not reword anything, you are just incapable of specifically pointing out how "he helped cause" their problems...

coward

 

[loosecannon]

EVERYTHING this Administration has done domestically has been to reward political supporters. The interests of the nation as a whole aren't considered.

It's the Chicago Way.

It's true and it is sickening. The full faith, credit and power of the US is being squandered in an effort to buy a generation of democratic faithful with no regard for even basics like whether or not they are Americans.

To call this admin the architects o the world's biggest election fraud scheme might be an understatement.

But the sad truth is that we are on a slippery slide and even if the GOP won the house senate and presidency in 2012 they would probably best Obama at this exact same game. Just as Obama is besting Bush.

Neither party can be trusted with any power.

 

[Dante]

so Reagan's policies are supposed to have affected growth during his terms, but Bush's economic policies had no effect?

 

[Spoonman]

Let's ask ourselves - Ford and GM both on the verge of bankruptcy and millions in debt. Obama takes over GM, funds them with millions of taxpayer dollars. Forces them into banckrupcy where millons of shareholders get the shaft. Thousands of small businesses get stiffed on money GM owes them. Thousands of small business go out of business as the result of this stiffing.

Ford Does it own their own with no government subsidy. They stay solvent and their shareholders are rewarded. They make good on their debts and keep their suppliers in business. They sho far greater growth and profits than GM.

 

[Spoonman]

Obama didn't save GM. He interfered in what should have been an orderly bankruptcy / reorganization process in order to bail out the UAW.

Bondholders were forced to take a fraction of what they were legally owed, with that funding being diverted to the benefit of the union.

The devil, in this case, was in the details of the bankruptcy plan that the government pushed through:

Bondholders -- investors ranging from large institutions to retirees just scraping by, who loaned GM a total of $27 billion -- received just 10 percent of the company. By contrast, the government's $50 billion gave it about 61 percent.

And the union -- in return for the $20 billion that GM owed its health trust -- got a remarkable 17.5 percent of the stock plus $2.5 billion in cash plus $6.5 billion in preferred stock carrying a dividend of about 9 percent.

In other words, the UAW got three to four times as much as the bondholders for a smaller claim on GM's assets. The union even boasted to its members in May 2009 that it had made no concessions on pay, health care or pensions in the restructuring.

In effect, the government divided up GM's creditors into favored and unfavored groups, then gave a fat stake in the reorganized business to the favored (a k a longtime Democratic Party donors). On top of that, Washington also ordered the shutdown of 1,650 GM dealers and another 1,000 Chrysler dealers as part of its takeover.

In last month's audit, TARP's inspector general criticized the Treasury Department for that very decision. Treasury didn't show why the cuts were "either necessary for the sake of the companies' economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation's economic recovery." The move "substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses." ...

Obama's GM rescue helped only his friends--Mark Modica - NYPOST.com

EVERYTHING this Administration has done domestically has been to reward political supporters. The interests of the nation as a whole aren't considered.

It's the Chicago Way.

It's all been about securing votes for the future. Nothing more.

 

[daveman]

Obama didn't save GM. He interfered in what should have been an orderly bankruptcy / reorganization process in order to bail out the UAW.

Bondholders were forced to take a fraction of what they were legally owed, with that funding being diverted to the benefit of the union.

The devil, in this case, was in the details of the bankruptcy plan that the government pushed through:

Bondholders -- investors ranging from large institutions to retirees just scraping by, who loaned GM a total of $27 billion -- received just 10 percent of the company. By contrast, the government's $50 billion gave it about 61 percent.

And the union -- in return for the $20 billion that GM owed its health trust -- got a remarkable 17.5 percent of the stock plus $2.5 billion in cash plus $6.5 billion in preferred stock carrying a dividend of about 9 percent.

In other words, the UAW got three to four times as much as the bondholders for a smaller claim on GM's assets. The union even boasted to its members in May 2009 that it had made no concessions on pay, health care or pensions in the restructuring.

In effect, the government divided up GM's creditors into favored and unfavored groups, then gave a fat stake in the reorganized business to the favored (a k a longtime Democratic Party donors). On top of that, Washington also ordered the shutdown of 1,650 GM dealers and another 1,000 Chrysler dealers as part of its takeover.

In last month's audit, TARP's inspector general criticized the Treasury Department for that very decision. Treasury didn't show why the cuts were "either necessary for the sake of the companies' economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation's economic recovery." The move "substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses." ...

Obama's GM rescue helped only his friends--Mark Modica - NYPOST.com

EVERYTHING this Administration has done domestically has been to reward political supporters. The interests of the nation as a whole aren't considered.

It's the Chicago Way.

It's all been about securing votes for the future. Nothing more.

If there's anything Democrats are good at, it's buying votes with public money.

 

[Spoonman]

EVERYTHING this Administration has done domestically has been to reward political supporters. The interests of the nation as a whole aren't considered.

It's the Chicago Way.

It's all been about securing votes for the future. Nothing more.

If there's anything Democrats are good at, it's buying votes with public money.

Well that and loosing public favor in only one term in office.

 

[Yurt]

lol...dante ran away from his assertion about bush, just as i predicted

 

[Yurt]

still no luck in finding any specifics dante

 

[capCcon]

So, Yurt, are you saying that Bush's out of control spending did nothing to adversely affect our economy and those participating in it (like, GM and car buyers, for example) ?

 

[Dante]

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

Just checked. GM is a live and doing well. It's off life support. The auto industry and especially GM and the suppliers who would have went out of business with GM, thank you Mister President.

*salute!

 

[Charles_Main]

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

Just checked. GM is a live and doing well. It's off life support. The auto industry and especially GM and the suppliers who would have went out of business with GM, thank you Mister President.

*salute!

Well you are right they are doing much better. However I do not think it is accurate to claim they would have gone out of Business. I am sure you are aware many cooperations go through restructuring bankruptcy and do not go out of business.

but that would have given GM far to much power to renegotiate Union contracts to be acceptable to the Democrat establishment. So we got the bail out instead.

So now they are doing better, but they still have some serious under lying problems with profitability, and being able to effectively compete with Foreign companies which in many cases have much lower costs.

my take anyways.

 

[Dante]

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

Just checked. GM is a live and doing well. It's off life support. The auto industry and especially GM and the suppliers who would have went out of business with GM, thank you Mister President.

*salute!

Well you are right they are doing much better. However I do not think it is accurate to claim they would have gone out of Business. I am sure you are aware many cooperations go through restructuring bankruptcy and do not go out of business.

but that would have given GM far to much power to renegotiate Union contracts to be acceptable to the Democrat establishment. So we got the bail out instead.

So now they are doing better, but they still have some serious under lying problems with profitability, and being able to effectively compete with Foreign companies which in many cases have much lower costs.

my take anyways.

The American auto industry has been struggling, but people forget, lose a company teh size of GM and hundreds, maybe thousands of smaller companies go with them.

 

[Flopper]

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

Just checked. GM is a live and doing well. It's off life support. The auto industry and especially GM and the suppliers who would have went out of business with GM, thank you Mister President.

*salute!

Well you are right they are doing much better. However I do not think it is accurate to claim they would have gone out of Business. I am sure you are aware many cooperations go through restructuring bankruptcy and do not go out of business.

but that would have given GM far to much power to renegotiate Union contracts to be acceptable to the Democrat establishment. So we got the bail out instead.

So now they are doing better, but they still have some serious under lying problems with profitability, and being able to effectively compete with Foreign companies which in many cases have much lower costs.

my take anyways.

If GM had gone through bankruptcy without funds from the government, it would have proceeded as in most large corporate bankruptcies. Federal courts would have determined the fate of GM. The court's purpose is not to rebuild the business but rather to work out an acceptable plan to pay back the creditors as much as possible. Such a plan would probably have involved selling off divisions that were profitable and disposing of the remaining assets. We would have been looking at an immediate lose of up to a million jobs. With the country in a credit crisis and the economy on the verge collapse, I think the decision to do the bailout was no brainer.

General Motors Chapter 11 reorganization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Car Czar Steven Rattner on Saving Detroit, From His Book Overhaul - WSJ.com

 

[Dante]

Just checked. GM is a live and doing well. It's off life support. The auto industry and especially GM and the suppliers who would have went out of business with GM, thank you Mister President.

*salute!

Well you are right they are doing much better. However I do not think it is accurate to claim they would have gone out of Business. I am sure you are aware many cooperations go through restructuring bankruptcy and do not go out of business.

but that would have given GM far to much power to renegotiate Union contracts to be acceptable to the Democrat establishment. So we got the bail out instead.

So now they are doing better, but they still have some serious under lying problems with profitability, and being able to effectively compete with Foreign companies which in many cases have much lower costs.

my take anyways.

If GM had gone through bankruptcy without funds from the government, it would have proceeded as in most large corporate bankruptcies. Federal courts would have determined the fate of GM. The court's purpose is not to rebuild the business but rather to work out an acceptable plan to pay back the creditors as much as possible. Such a plan would probably have involved selling off divisions that were profitable and disposing of the remaining assets. We would have been looking at an immediate lose of up to a million jobs. With the country in a credit crisis and the economy on the verge collapse, I think the decision to do the bailout was no brainer.

General Motors Chapter 11 reorganization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Car Czar Steven Rattner on Saving Detroit, From His Book Overhaul - WSJ.com
[/B]

 

[boedicca]

No. Obama did not save GM. He helped the UAW plunder it and the bond holders.

 

[Dante]

No. Obama did not save GM. He helped the UAW plunder it and the bond holders.

 

[Spoonman]

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

Just checked. GM is a live and doing well. It's off life support. The auto industry and especially GM and the suppliers who would have went out of business with GM, thank you Mister President.

*salute!

Ford is doing even better and it didn't cost the taxpayers a dime. Nor did the stiff thier supplier base and put thousands out of work in the process.

 

[Spoonman]

No. Obama did not save GM. He helped the UAW plunder it and the bond holders.

You owned stock in GM and you got screwed. Ford was in the same position GM was in but pulled out better and faster without Obama's help.

 

[boedicca]

No. Obama did not save GM. He helped the UAW plunder it and the bond holders.

You owned stock in GM and you got screwed. Ford was in the same position GM was in but pulled out better and faster without Obama's help.

And even worse, legitimate bond holders who had a superior claim on assets were screwed in order to pay off the UAW.

That is Gangster Government.