Did Middle East mediator Martin Indyk reveal Obama's plan for Israel without Netanyahu in charge?

[teddyearp]

Go President Obama!

Will you still feel the same way when the Israelis are being massacred by American weapons in their hundreds of thousands <snip>

That was a stupid question. We all know the answer to that. Challenger would welcome wholeheartedly such events.

 

[Coyote]

Now you are just being silly.

Read the Koran and hadiths instead of just spouting islamonazi cover ups. Since the Jewish tribes of medina refused to worship Mohamed the muslims have been commanded to hate the Jews

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

 

[Coyote]

Go President Obama!

Will you still feel the same way when the Israelis are being massacred by American weapons in their hundreds of thousands <snip>

That was a stupid question. We all know the answer to that. Challenger would welcome wholeheartedly such events.

I have never ever seen Challenger express support for genocide - of anyone, including Jews.

 

[Coyote]

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

No sections of the Koran posted as they are meant to be read/heard and understood. Don't put western values on Islamic words as they two are incompatible. The muslims being illiterate, or semi literate at best, could not read and understand full chapters so each surah stood in its own right. This is why muslims quote surah's and not chapters whenproclaiming the word of their moon god.

So not cherry picked, incomplete, out of context at all but fully complete commands and instructions that all muslims understand implicitly because of their simplicity.


As an object lesson here is a chapter from the Koran in its entirety


Chapter 108 Al-Kauthar The Abundance of Good


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

1. Surely We have given thee abundance of good.
2. So pray to thy Lord and sacrifice.
3. Surely thy enemy is cut off (from good).

Context is context whether it is western or not. And yes, cherry picked, incomplete, and out of context. I can chuck a bunch of icky nasty Bible quotes at you if you want.

WRONG as the context that the surah's are written in is not the same as the context the Bible is written in. It is a common complaint amongst muslims that the west takes their words out of context, when the context KILL THE UNBELIEVERS is the same in both cultures.

You can as long as you put them in context as originally written and complete as written. Which is what is done with the quotes from the Koran. Take any of the above and put the 3 verses either side in with them and you will see that the context does not alter. It is how the muslims are taught to understand the Koran as individual verses and not as parts of a whole.

I think Muslims know more about their surah's then you do.

Obviously you do as well. You know enough to tell us this women didn't mean what she said

Yes. I read her rebuttal. Perhaps you can explain why you support the Israeli MP's statements calling for Palestinian genocide, something you kept dodging. Two can play this stupid game.

 

[ChrisL]

Read the Koran and hadiths instead of just spouting islamonazi cover ups. Since the Jewish tribes of medina refused to worship Mohamed the muslims have been commanded to hate the Jews

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

You are wrong. They have not gotten along with anyone. They have been fighting amongst themselves for centuries, long before Israel was there and long before America even existed. I don't think you really understand these people.

The Islamic State and the Arab Tribes in Eastern Syria

 

[Coyote]

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

You are wrong. They have not gotten along with anyone. They have been fighting amongst themselves for centuries, long before Israel was there and long before America even existed. I don't think you really understand these people.

The Islamic State and the Arab Tribes in Eastern Syria

Meh. So was most of Europe. In fact...who wasn't? Still, there were periods of stability and peace and there were Jews. Like I said - if their holy books insisted that they had to kill Jews they did piss poor job of it letting them live in the ME and the Ottoman Empire etc.

 

[ChrisL]

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

You are wrong. They have not gotten along with anyone. They have been fighting amongst themselves for centuries, long before Israel was there and long before America even existed. I don't think you really understand these people.

The Islamic State and the Arab Tribes in Eastern Syria

Meh. So was most of Europe. In fact...who wasn't? Still, there were periods of stability and peace and there were Jews. Like I said - if their holy books insisted that they had to kill Jews they did piss poor job of it letting them live in the ME and the Ottoman Empire etc.

No, these wars still go on today. Are you for real? The Sunnis and the Shiites, etc., etc., etc. You might think that people who live in the ME are just like we are, but they are NOT.

 

[Jroc]

Read the Koran and hadiths instead of just spouting islamonazi cover ups. Since the Jewish tribes of medina refused to worship Mohamed the muslims have been commanded to hate the Jews

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

 

[Jroc]

No sections of the Koran posted as they are meant to be read/heard and understood. Don't put western values on Islamic words as they two are incompatible. The muslims being illiterate, or semi literate at best, could not read and understand full chapters so each surah stood in its own right. This is why muslims quote surah's and not chapters whenproclaiming the word of their moon god.

So not cherry picked, incomplete, out of context at all but fully complete commands and instructions that all muslims understand implicitly because of their simplicity.


As an object lesson here is a chapter from the Koran in its entirety


Chapter 108 Al-Kauthar The Abundance of Good


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

1. Surely We have given thee abundance of good.
2. So pray to thy Lord and sacrifice.
3. Surely thy enemy is cut off (from good).

Context is context whether it is western or not. And yes, cherry picked, incomplete, and out of context. I can chuck a bunch of icky nasty Bible quotes at you if you want.

WRONG as the context that the surah's are written in is not the same as the context the Bible is written in. It is a common complaint amongst muslims that the west takes their words out of context, when the context KILL THE UNBELIEVERS is the same in both cultures.

You can as long as you put them in context as originally written and complete as written. Which is what is done with the quotes from the Koran. Take any of the above and put the 3 verses either side in with them and you will see that the context does not alter. It is how the muslims are taught to understand the Koran as individual verses and not as parts of a whole.

I think Muslims know more about their surah's then you do.

Obviously you do as well. You know enough to tell us this women didn't mean what she said

Yes. I read her rebuttal. Perhaps you can explain why you support the Israeli MP's statements calling for Palestinian genocide, something you kept dodging. Two can play this stupid game.

Rebuttal? Who rebuts themselves?

 

[ChrisL]

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

They are happy if they can be overlords. They see other religious groups as being lesser human beings on the totem pole, as do many religions.

 

[Hossfly]

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

"............Peace, through superior firepower............"

 

[Jroc]

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

They are happy if they can be overlords. They see other religious groups as being lesser human beings on the totem pole, as do many religions.

Many religions don't slaughter and behead people.

 

[ChrisL]

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

They are happy if they can be overlords. They see other religious groups as being lesser human beings on the totem pole, as do many religions.

Many religions don't slaughter and behead people.

True, but they still look down upon others with different beliefs as sinners, or some do anyways.

 

[Jroc]

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

They are happy if they can be overlords. They see other religious groups as being lesser human beings on the totem pole, as do many religions.

Many religions don't slaughter and behead people.

True, but they still look down upon others with different beliefs as sinners, or some do anyways.

Trying to "save" someone or convince them to convert is a far cry from executing them

 

[ChrisL]

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

They are happy if they can be overlords. They see other religious groups as being lesser human beings on the totem pole, as do many religions.

Many religions don't slaughter and behead people.

True, but they still look down upon others with different beliefs as sinners, or some do anyways.

Trying to "save" someone or convince them to convert is a far cry from executing them

Oh, I'm not arguing about that. I'm just pointing out that of course the Muslims think their religion is the only "true" religion, just like the other religious denominations.

 

[ChrisL]

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

of course they lived together as long as the Jews are subservient..if not they'll be slaughtered. We choose the other route "peace through strength"

They are happy if they can be overlords. They see other religious groups as being lesser human beings on the totem pole, as do many religions.

Many religions don't slaughter and behead people.

True, but they still look down upon others with different beliefs as sinners, or some do anyways.

Trying to "save" someone or convince them to convert is a far cry from executing them

And thank God I live in America. These kinds of people remind us of why separation of church and politics is very important.

 

[Jroc]

Obama's U.N ambassador...

 

[Phoenall]

Read the Koran and hadiths instead of just spouting islamonazi cover ups. Since the Jewish tribes of medina refused to worship Mohamed the muslims have been commanded to hate the Jews

Well as you're so well read, lets see the chapter and verse from the Quran and Hadiths to back up your allegations.

Here you go


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Cherry picked, incomplete religious quotes taken out of context mean absolutely nothing.

They hate and kill Jews based upon their holy books. Everyone knows this. Why do you deny it?

Because it's not true.

They lived together more or less peacefully for centuries. If there holy books commanded them to do all that the Jews would have been wiped out in the ME long ago.

This "everyone" doesn't sound very educated.

And who told you this LIE as the history shows millions of Jews were massacred or taken as sex slaves by the muslims. Unless you call being subject to the pact of Omar, dhimmi laws and sharia as living together peacefully. Just some of the massacres
Cordoba 1013
Granada 1066 1090
Fez 1035 1146 1275
Medina 627
Khaybar 628
Marrakesh 1146 1232
And so it goes on all across the M.E, horn of Africa and Spain. Is this your idea of living peacefully because I would like you to try living like that.

The everyone is all the decent people who are not brainwashed into believing islamonazi lies and propaganda, and have open minds and are prepared to look at all the facts. Like the many Jews who faked conversion to islam

 

[Phoenall]

Go President Obama!

Will you still feel the same way when the Israelis are being massacred by American weapons in their hundreds of thousands <snip>

That was a stupid question. We all know the answer to that. Challenger would welcome wholeheartedly such events.

I have never ever seen Challenger express support for genocide - of anyone, including Jews.

Is that because you have selective vision and only see what you want to see

 

[Phoenall]

No sections of the Koran posted as they are meant to be read/heard and understood. Don't put western values on Islamic words as they two are incompatible. The muslims being illiterate, or semi literate at best, could not read and understand full chapters so each surah stood in its own right. This is why muslims quote surah's and not chapters whenproclaiming the word of their moon god.

So not cherry picked, incomplete, out of context at all but fully complete commands and instructions that all muslims understand implicitly because of their simplicity.


As an object lesson here is a chapter from the Koran in its entirety


Chapter 108 Al-Kauthar The Abundance of Good


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

1. Surely We have given thee abundance of good.
2. So pray to thy Lord and sacrifice.
3. Surely thy enemy is cut off (from good).

Context is context whether it is western or not. And yes, cherry picked, incomplete, and out of context. I can chuck a bunch of icky nasty Bible quotes at you if you want.

WRONG as the context that the surah's are written in is not the same as the context the Bible is written in. It is a common complaint amongst muslims that the west takes their words out of context, when the context KILL THE UNBELIEVERS is the same in both cultures.

You can as long as you put them in context as originally written and complete as written. Which is what is done with the quotes from the Koran. Take any of the above and put the 3 verses either side in with them and you will see that the context does not alter. It is how the muslims are taught to understand the Koran as individual verses and not as parts of a whole.

I think Muslims know more about their surah's then you do.

Obviously you do as well. You know enough to tell us this women didn't mean what she said

Yes. I read her rebuttal. Perhaps you can explain why you support the Israeli MP's statements calling for Palestinian genocide, something you kept dodging. Two can play this stupid game.

Which Israeli M.K. would that be then, and were did he call for the genocide of the arab muslims ?