Did Jefferson deserve to be on Mt Rushmore?

[hjmick]

Jefferson was a slaveholder

Lots of folks were in that day and age.

And?'

So was Washington for that matter. Consistency is not your strongest suit?

You had to make that a question?

 

[Peach]

why??

Washington was the first president of america - lincoln preserved the union, tdr made america relevent on the world stage.

What did jefferson do ??

tdr?

Teddy is the one I question, if you doubt Jefferson made a difference, read the Constitution.

 

[regent]

Jefferson changed the direction of the country. After two Federalist presidents in a row the country was sorted headed to where? With the election of Jefferson the conservative party. like old soldiers, just faded away, and with the conservative party gone, the period became known as the Era of Good Feelings. America began to live up to the Declaration of Independence and the Constituton. Gone was the Alien and Sedition Act in which Americans had to be careful of criticizing government or president or end up in the pokey. Jefferson bought Louisiana for pennies an acre. Jefferson's forte was probably not in administration but more of inspiration. We still think of Jefferson with the founding of America, and though he was in Paris when they wrote the Constitution he hovered over the writers. I often wonder what the Constitution would be like if he had been here for the writing.
But maybe Jefferson should be noted for giving us so many quotes.

 

[Liability]

Jefferson was a slaveholder

Lots of folks were in that day and age.

And?'

So was Washington for that matter. Consistency is not your strongest suit?

You had to make that a question?

Let's call it rhetorical -- at least in this instance.

 

[Peach]

Jefferson didn't even sign the Constitution.

I will say, however, in response to the question of this thread: Yes, he deserved to be on Mt. Rushmore.

He was an important Founding Father.

He was the Minister to France when the Constitution was drafted, correct. He had written the Constitution for the state of Virginia, which was a model for the US Constitution, and wrote the Declaration of Independence. His correspondence to many of the framers was also vital in defining the new Constitution. Jefferson, more so than Adams, was firm in his faith in the individual, and the necessity of individual rights. Jefferson helped the United Stares become known in Europe, and his intellect, wit, and personality accomplished much for the new nation.

Roosevelt began his "splendid little war", but was known primarily within the US. TR was certainly a great POLITICIAN though. Either Adams, or FDR, would be the best addition to the monument, if one is ever considered.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Judging from the sensibilities of the up and coming generation, the next face on Mt Rushmore (if another's added) is going to be a toss-up between Optimus Prime and Snookie.

 

[Old Rocks]

Jefferson and Washingon both held slaves because there was no alternative at the time. They were both ablitionists too and both gave all of their slaves their freedom when they died.

Nice myth, true in the case of Washington, not true in the case of Jefferson. And neither was ever an abolitionist. The only founding father that I know of that once owned slaves and became an abolitionist was Ben Franklin.

 

[Old Rocks]

Jefferson didn't even sign the Constitution.

I will say, however, in response to the question of this thread: Yes, he deserved to be on Mt. Rushmore.

He was an important Founding Father.

He was the Minister to France when the Constitution was drafted, correct. He had written the Constitution for the state of Virginia, which was a model for the US Constitution, and wrote the Declaration of Independence. His correspondence to many of the framers was also vital in defining the new Constitution. Jefferson, more so than Adams, was firm in his faith in the individual, and the necessity of individual rights. Jefferson helped the United Stares become known in Europe, and his intellect, wit, and personality accomplished much for the new nation.

Roosevelt began his "splendid little war", but was known primarily within the US. TR was certainly a great POLITICIAN though. Either Adams, or FDR, would be the best addition to the monument, if one is ever considered.

His conservation ethic was one of the primary movers in the preservation of the unique areas in our nation for the enjoyment of all. Also, I believe he is the only President that ever had an article published in a peer reviewed scientific journal.

 

[Old Rocks]

Jefferson didn't even sign the Constitution.

I will say, however, in response to the question of this thread: Yes, he deserved to be on Mt. Rushmore.

He was an important Founding Father.

He was the Minister to France when the Constitution was drafted, correct. He had written the Constitution for the state of Virginia, which was a model for the US Constitution, and wrote the Declaration of Independence. His correspondence to many of the framers was also vital in defining the new Constitution. Jefferson, more so than Adams, was firm in his faith in the individual, and the necessity of individual rights. Jefferson helped the United Stares become known in Europe, and his intellect, wit, and personality accomplished much for the new nation.

Roosevelt began his "splendid little war", but was known primarily within the US. TR was certainly a great POLITICIAN though. Either Adams, or FDR, would be the best addition to the monument, if one is ever considered.

And I happen to agree with your choices if there is an addition.

 

[paperview]

Jefferson and Washingon both held slaves because there was no alternative at the time. They were both ablitionists too and both gave all of their slaves their freedom when they died.

Nice myth, true in the case of Washington, not true in the case of Jefferson. And neither was ever an abolitionist. The only founding father that I know of that once owned slaves and became an abolitionist was Ben Franklin.

^ What he said.

 

[Synthaholic]

Washington and Lincoln are a given.

TDR iffy.

My issue is with Jefferson.

Not a difference -maker.

Mr Lincoln trampled all over states rights in direct violation of the constitution.
He is the one you should be challenging.
I do not now, nor have I ever supported slavery.
Mr Lincoln created an atmosphere of "an all powerful federal government" that is allowed to supersede states rights by force.

What part of 'United' States don't you understand?

What part of 'in order to form a more perfect union' don't you understand?


Take your time....

 

[Againsheila]

Washington and Lincoln are a given.

TDR iffy.

My issue is with Jefferson.

Not a difference -maker.

Mr Lincoln trampled all over states rights in direct violation of the constitution.
He is the one you should be challenging.
I do not now, nor have I ever supported slavery.
Mr Lincoln created an atmosphere of "an all powerful federal government" that is allowed to supersede states rights by force.

What part of 'United' States don't you understand?

What part of 'in order to form a more perfect union' don't you understand?


Take your time....

REad the Declaration of Independence, it is that which gives the states the right to leave the Union....just as we left England....

 

[Artevelde]

Washington and Lincoln are a given.

TDR iffy.

My issue is with Jefferson.

Not a difference -maker.

Obviously one can debate this at length. I would argue that Jefferson probably does deserve to be on Mount Rushmore because of his role in the Declaration of Independence and (especially) because of the Louisiana Purchase.

 

[Artevelde]

This whole point of this thread is so that ginscpy can advertise the fact that he didn't know that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Constitution.

You are confusing the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Jefferson was nowhere near when the Constitution was being written.

 

[Artevelde]

This whole point of this thread is so that ginscpy can advertise the fact that he didn't know that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Constitution.

Actually, the U.S. Constitution was drafted by committee...

Under Jefferson's direction and control with substantial influence by James Madison. Madison should be there instead of FDR.

FDR isn't on Mount Rushmore and Jefferson wasn't even involved in drafting the US Constitution.

 

[MuadDib]

Washington and Lincoln are a given.

TDR iffy.

My issue is with Jefferson.

Not a difference -maker.

Mr Lincoln trampled all over states rights in direct violation of the constitution.
He is the one you should be challenging.
I do not now, nor have I ever supported slavery.
Mr Lincoln created an atmosphere of "an all powerful federal government" that is allowed to supersede states rights by force.

What part of 'United' States don't you understand?

What part of 'in order to form a more perfect union' don't you understand?


Take your time....

States have historical right to secede | The Columbia Daily Tribune - Columbia, Missouri

 

[Old Rocks]

Mr Lincoln trampled all over states rights in direct violation of the constitution.
He is the one you should be challenging.
I do not now, nor have I ever supported slavery.
Mr Lincoln created an atmosphere of "an all powerful federal government" that is allowed to supersede states rights by force.

What part of 'United' States don't you understand?

What part of 'in order to form a more perfect union' don't you understand?


Take your time....

States have historical right to secede | The Columbia Daily Tribune - Columbia, Missouri

My Great Grandfather fought in the 11th Illinois infantry to settle that issue. It was settled at Appomattox Court House. States do not have the right to secede.

 

[paperview]

Mr Lincoln trampled all over states rights in direct violation of the constitution.
He is the one you should be challenging.
I do not now, nor have I ever supported slavery.
Mr Lincoln created an atmosphere of "an all powerful federal government" that is allowed to supersede states rights by force.

What part of 'United' States don't you understand?

What part of 'in order to form a more perfect union' don't you understand?


Take your time....

States have historical right to secede | The Columbia Daily Tribune - Columbia, Missouri

I'll see your ridiculous Walter Williams Op-Ed, and raise you one Scalia:

Scalia: States have "no right to secede" - PoliTex

"I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, "one Nation, indivisible.") Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit."

Furthermore: Texas v. White

 

[paperview]

What part of 'United' States don't you understand?

What part of 'in order to form a more perfect union' don't you understand?


Take your time....

States have historical right to secede | The Columbia Daily Tribune - Columbia, Missouri

My Great Grandfather fought in the 11th Illinois infantry to settle that issue. It was settled at Appomattox Court House. States do not have the right to secede.

You'd think after getting their asses beat as bad as they did, and the results of that war, they'd figure it out...

but nooooooooo, some 150 years later, they're still fighting it.

 

[freedombecki]

Yep. Jefferson, not a difference maker...

<sarcasm off>

The man who charmed the Louisiana Purchase off the French for seven million dollars is not a difference maker?

<oh. ya got me. >
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