Detroit parents want teachers, officials jailed over low test scores

Hit a nerve did I?
Only the one which detects flawed logic.

When you base you complaint on logic, using quotes like
"Generations of children have been let down by so-called progressive education policies which have taught skills and "empathy" instead of bodies of knowledge,

And then switch gears to an emotional appeal such as
You have failed to recognize the care and love, and actual concern for learning behind homeschooling.

Then you end up looking like, what was that term, oh yes, an Ignorant Buffoon

Perhaps your home school should have taught a tiny modicum of logic.
 
Hit a nerve did I?
Only the one which detects flawed logic.

When you base you complaint on logic, using quotes like
"Generations of children have been let down by so-called progressive education policies which have taught skills and "empathy" instead of bodies of knowledge,

And then switch gears to an emotional appeal such as
You have failed to recognize the care and love, and actual concern for learning behind homeschooling.

Then you end up looking like, what was that term, oh yes, an Ignorant Buffoon

Perhaps your home school should have taught a tiny modicum of logic.

Hmmmm........

em⋅pa⋅thy  /ˈɛmpəθi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [em-puh-thee] Show IPA
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–noun 1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
2. the imaginative ascribing to an object, as a natural object or work of art, feelings or attitudes present in oneself: By means of empathy, a great painting becomes a mirror of the self.


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Empathy Definition | Definition of Empathy at Dictionary.com


If You confuse empathy with care and love, or misdirect your concern for the student to the bureaucracy, she has a point. Maybe you are the one that needs to recognize the distinction between living in the moment and living in the"Politically Correct"? Why not take that to your next Union Meeting?
 
em⋅pa⋅thy  /ˈɛmpəθi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [em-puh-thee] Show IPA
Use empathy in a Sentence
Blah, Blah.
Home schooling does not work.
If it did work, then the home schooled students would be as capable as public school students from 1950. Public school students from 1950 possessed a median knowledge which would blow the curve off modern students; rather akin to foreign students (from say Japan) when compared to American. Instead the "loving, caring" parents can barely manage to beat the newest low of modern education. Just because public education has finally been dragged below the level of Home Schooling does not mean that home teachers are now succeeding.

Perhaps the home school teachers should be under the same indictments as the Chicago Teachers.
 
em⋅pa⋅thy  /ˈɛmpəθi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [em-puh-thee] Show IPA
Use empathy in a Sentence
Blah, Blah.
Home schooling does not work.
If it did work, then the home schooled students would be as capable as public school students from 1950. Public school students from 1950 possessed a median knowledge which would blow the curve off modern students; rather akin to foreign students (from say Japan) when compared to American. Instead the "loving, caring" parents can barely manage to beat the newest low of modern education. Just because public education has finally been dragged below the level of Home Schooling does not mean that home teachers are now succeeding.

Perhaps the home school teachers should be under the same indictments as the Chicago Teachers.

Well, all righty, I'm certainly no stickler for topicality, but to flatly say Home Schooling, or ANY type of education doesn't work based on comparisons of median knowledge is both specious and irrelevant.

Home schooling is only one CHOICE, that works well for SOME students.

This is true for ALL teaching methods.

The reason homogeneous populations can be taught more easily, and cheaply, is that they require few variations on teaching methods. Ours is practically the most heterogeneous population on the planet, and therefore requires the most variety of teaching methods. Compounding complexity is one goal of our education system: To Homogenize The Population!

If all we wanted to do was teach, for example, addition, then we would seperate kids by race, creed, color, gender, religion, etc., then teach each group according to that groups special learning needs. One group might excel at Homeschooling.
 
It's their own fault. They keep electing the same idiots over and over and over and over. We see it here in New Orleans.....
 
If people want to blame someone for their child's failings, they should firstly look in the mirror.

They are the product of the DNC environment that has been saving them for generations now. The only requirement for them is to show up on Election Day and support Their Keeper! Everything else is forgivable.

It is one of the things that seriously pisses me off about parents - they want to blame anyone but themselves.


Yeah...like blaming it on a political party.
 
Hit a nerve did I?
Only the one which detects flawed logic.

When you base you complaint on logic, using quotes like
"Generations of children have been let down by so-called progressive education policies which have taught skills and "empathy" instead of bodies of knowledge,

And then switch gears to an emotional appeal such as
You have failed to recognize the care and love, and actual concern for learning behind homeschooling.

Then you end up looking like, what was that term, oh yes, an Ignorant Buffoon

Perhaps your home school should have taught a tiny modicum of logic.

So, let's see what we have accomplished.

1. In confronting your attack on homeschooled children, referring to them as 'ignorant buffoons,' you were shown to be, shall we say, less than informed.

2. Realizing the grave error you made in showing your prejudice, you were jarred to the point of spelling and/or typing errors.

3. You have, in several posts, attempted to change the slant of your bias, retracting your "ignorant buffoons" smear by veering off into several different direction.

4. Although using the smear in my direction seemed more defensible in your small mind, any objetive reading of my posts would disabuse that notion immediately.

5. The proof of your severe and public spanking is that you will never again refer to children as 'ignorant buffoons.'

Now go back to the task for which you are better prepared, using silly putty to lift the comic page. I’m sure somebody will open the egg for you.
 
I'm certainly no stickler for topicality, but to flatly say Home Schooling, or ANY type of education doesn't work based on comparisons of median knowledge is both specious and irrelevant.

Home schooling is only one CHOICE, that works well for SOME students.
I refuted the specious statistics which allegedly Proved homeschooling as a panacea cure for education's ills. Sure the 17 year old with one parent a good mentor and university humanities instructor and the other a good mentor and university science instructor who is headed to Harvard for their own PhD in humanities or MIT for science is a wonderful success story and an example of home schooling vying for the best choice for that student. But most homeshoolers have been effectively cheated of their opportunity for effective primary education, rather like the rest of the students with today's morass of Federal regulations and inept teaching techniques foisted by ambitious PhD's in the field, who have seen their schools drop in quality to the point that home schooling has finally become competitive.
The Criminals in Chicago who stole or embezzled should be prosecuted, but the true problems which cause such poor student performance go past a simple one sentence solution.
 
I'm certainly no stickler for topicality, but to flatly say Home Schooling, or ANY type of education doesn't work based on comparisons of median knowledge is both specious and irrelevant.

Home schooling is only one CHOICE, that works well for SOME students.
I refuted the specious statistics which allegedly Proved homeschooling as a panacea cure for education's ills. Sure the 17 year old with one parent a good mentor and university humanities instructor and the other a good mentor and university science instructor who is headed to Harvard for their own PhD in humanities or MIT for science is a wonderful success story and an example of home schooling vying for the best choice for that student. But most homeshoolers have been effectively cheated of their opportunity for effective primary education, rather like the rest of the students with today's morass of Federal regulations and inept teaching techniques foisted by ambitious PhD's in the field, who have seen their schools drop in quality to the point that home schooling has finally become competitive.
The Criminals in Chicago who stole or embezzled should be prosecuted, but the true problems which cause such poor student performance go past a simple one sentence solution.

While I don't disagree that today's education is not perfect, and suffers from the increasing burdens of Federal Regulations it was never intended to address, I think the rise of Home Schooling's popularity has much to do with technology and the ability of students to take online courses from home.

One thing I will also add is that MONEY is NOT a problem until the school system can no longer support a basketball team, a football stadium, a marching band, a cheer-squad, a dance team, and all the transportation and various and sundry administrative needs of all these ridiculous programs that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the school's purpose.

I'd be interested in the existance of all this in the Detroit School System.
 
While I don't disagree that today's education is not perfect, and suffers from the increasing burdens of Federal Regulations it was never intended to address, I think the rise of Home Schooling's popularity has much to do with technology and the ability of students to take online courses from home.
I am leery of having technology take too much hand. Television is an example of a technology which certainly did not help education. How many times did you have a (poor excuse for a) teacher put something on the school television to "teach" the class and half the students slept while the majority of the others ignored the TV for some diversion.
Online courses CAN be a tool, but I am reminded of the lesson of the hammer. "When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail."
Few parents have the training, experience or knowledge to make good choices of online tools and marketing departments exist to insure that second rate product (courses in this case) competes in the market.

One thing I will also add is that MONEY is NOT a problem until the school system can no longer support a basketball team, a football stadium, a marching band, a cheer-squad, a dance team, and all the transportation and various and sundry administrative needs of all these ridiculous programs that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the school's purpose.
I agree with this one. Coaches and directors tend to make a significant amount more than math and English teachers, even though we, as a society, supposedly want the three R's taught.
Chicago is certainly like every other district I have ever sen; the athletic departments get funding because they are so visible. Academic achievement doesn't produce a visually spectacular product and hence gets shorted.

Off Topic
PC - If you insist on being schooled in home schooling, start a thread and take your bleeding heart emotional appeals there ("We loves our childrens yes we does") I'm going to ignore your further derailments in this thread
 
I am leery of having technology take too much hand. Television is an example of a technology which certainly did not help education. How many times did you have a (poor excuse for a) teacher put something on the school television to "teach" the class and half the students slept while the majority of the others ignored the TV for some diversion.

TV? You mean the magic glowing box that little people live in?

:lol::lol::lol:

(I'm sorry, Charles, but I just had to say that)

I shared your concern about taking classes online. Actually, I thought it would be much easier than going to a class. Then I took an online class. One of the most challenging classes I ever had. This board is only one example of online learning, but it does give you the sense of being in a "class." The internet really does offer a broad array of software applicable to many different uses.

Here's an example, If anyone's interested, its free (in Colorado)

Online courses CAN be a tool, but I am reminded of the lesson of the hammer. "When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail."

I'm reminded of the lesson of the hammer too: "A hammer is only as good as the hand that holds it." Any teaching tool is worthless if it isn't used appropriately

Few parents have the training, experience or knowledge to make good choices of online tools and marketing departments exist to insure that second rate product (courses in this case) competes in the market.

Meh...I suppose you need to compare the "second rate product" with the alternatives....in Detroit, thos alternatives don't look so great.
 
Meh...I suppose you need to compare the "second rate product" with the alternatives....in Detroit, thos alternatives don't look so great.
I have long contended that the Federal level of education should include only review and evaluation of methods and materials for the State and local educators to review in their decision making process. Such a resource, if bias could be minimized, might be invaluable to both home-schooling efforts and communities like Chicago trying to escape the long folly which has caused the decline of public education. Unfortunately such a move, while probably beneficial for the education process, would result in less power for the central government and hence would not be pursued.
You are correct the dismal performance of Chicago schools is alarming; they have sunk to such a low level that recovery may take generations even if the politicians can be inclined to sense.
 
Meh...I suppose you need to compare the "second rate product" with the alternatives....in Detroit, thos alternatives don't look so great.
I have long contended that the Federal level of education should include only review and evaluation of methods and materials for the State and local educators to review in their decision making process. Such a resource, if bias could be minimized, might be invaluable to both home-schooling efforts and communities like Chicago trying to escape the long folly which has caused the decline of public education. Unfortunately such a move, while probably beneficial for the education process, would result in less power for the central government and hence would not be pursued.
You are correct the dismal performance of Chicago schools is alarming; they have sunk to such a low level that recovery may take generations even if the politicians can be inclined to sense.

Our Federal Government has almost nothing (no absolutely nothing) to do with HOW anything is taught in US schools. Constitutional Separation of Church and State is the only thing that controls WHAT is taught, and Civil Rights Laws are the only things contolling WHO is taught. NCLB controls the quality of teaching, but only in schools with significant populations of Title I students who the school must feed, and applies federal funding to pay for this service (basically, the feds will pull their funding for underperforming schools).

The only State that has a school system is Hawaii.
 
Detroit -- Impassioned parents demanded jail time for educators and district officials Saturday following the release of test scores that showed fourth- and eighth-graders had the worst math scores in the nation.

City students took the National Assessment of Educational Progress test this year, and 69 percent of fourth-graders scored below the basic level in math and 77 percent of eighth-graders scored below basic.

The Detroit scores on the progress test were the lowest in its 40-year history. The sample of students included 900 of Detroit's 6,000 fourth-graders and 1,000 of the district's 6,000 eighth-graders.

Sharlonda Buckman, CEO of the Detroit Parent Network, called for jailing and civil lawsuits against anyone in the city's educational system that is not doing his or her share to help properly educate children.

"Somebody needs to go to jail," she said in a tearful address to 500 parents gathered Saturday for the organization's annual breakfast forum. "Somebody needs to pay for this. Somebody needs to go to jail, and it shouldn't be the kids."

Detroit Public Schools Emergency Financial Manager Robert Bobb told the crowd the test scores weren't the result of children who were incompetent or parents who didn't care. He blamed the scores on the district not doing its job.
Detroit parents want DPS teachers, officials jailed over low test scores | detnews.com | The Detroit News

Comments?
Remembering back to when I was a kid. It certainly would have given me much satisfaction to see some of my teachers dragged off to jail after flunking me. :lol:
 
Our Federal Government has almost nothing (no absolutely nothing) to do with HOW anything is taught in US schools.

The only State that has a school system is Hawaii.

Yet I pay a lot of extra property taxes because of unfunded federal education "mandates"
How many states have a state board of education? I recall a report that over 40% of all Texas State funds were spent on local education. Money gives control, as does the ability to "mandate" yet the problems faced by a rural east Texas school with less that thirty students per grade level is far different from those faced by an urban Detroit school with more than thirty students per classroom (the Detroit example may be an exaggeration, but the Texas one is not).
 
I believe that if a near majority fail a test, there is a good chance that the test is the problem...

That's possible...unless that same test is passed by the majority in another school.

Of course there are other variables to consider. I would look at the majority overall, and if majority overall passed the test is likely at least good.

Then there are the particular schools where failure took place. What type of population is in that school. So many variables there. It is known that cultural background has made some difference. Racial and class background has made a difference. None of these is enough to point any fingers because within each of those variables, there are other variables. For example the quality of the teachers is a possible cause, or financial abilities of the school and population may make a difference.

So many possibilities. We cannot just outright blame the teachers, or the parents, or any one potential issue. There has to be a good study first. Then, take real action to make sure the problem is gone!

The test could still be a problem, even in the individual schools, if the test is (intentionally or not) geared to a culture, or race, or gender, or some other area. I am in the process of taking some of these tests, in math, and I have to admit that they are very tough, and the word complicated or confusing comes to mind as well. I am not sure I will pass what I take. Of course I am doing it without any consequences because I am the only one who sees what I do.
 
Our Federal Government has almost nothing (no absolutely nothing) to do with HOW anything is taught in US schools.

The only State that has a school system is Hawaii.

Yet I pay a lot of extra property taxes because of unfunded federal education "mandates"
How many states have a state board of education? I recall a report that over 40% of all Texas State funds were spent on local education. Money gives control, as does the ability to "mandate" yet the problems faced by a rural east Texas school with less that thirty students per grade level is far different from those faced by an urban Detroit school with more than thirty students per classroom (the Detroit example may be an exaggeration, but the Texas one is not).

Yes, you are correct, your local District (property in Texas) tax does go to pay for federal mandates, but these are not mandates about HOW anything is taught, but WHO is taught. In other states, most State Tax is redistributed for the same purpose.

When good ol' Geral Ford signed into law the well meaning Federal Statute requiring ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THE USA to teach ALL Children, including those with almost any imaginable mental or physical disability, they didn't fund it. Gerry noticed this, and didn't like it, but what was he supposed to do? Veto a bill designed to help the proverbial Poster Children = Political Suicide.

The average legislater, much less the average Texan, could not....CAN not begin to imagine the costs involved in this One Mandate.
 
One of the comments on this story said that Detroit public employees have to live in Detroit. Residency requirements would be an easy thing to change and could help with a bigger talent pool.
 

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