Democrats to blame if there is a shut down

[M14 Shooter]

Actually, Obama wanted to stop the tax cuts. It's the GOP that stopped him and forced a compromise.

Your spin doesn't hold up to the facts.

The tax cuts had to be extended by an act of Congress.

-The Dem-controlled house, at The Omama's urging, chose to pass a bill that extended them.
-The Dem-controlled senate, at The Obama's urging, chose to pass a bill that extended them.
-The Obama then chose to sign them into law.

:shrug:

 

[Sallow]

so cutting spending is a bad thing? I see.

you never answered the other question as to what we are borrowing....because that would make your first sentence here look like, well what it is, totally and completely off the wall.

We have to service that debt. for the money we borrow TODAY, the less we borrow the less interest we have to pay there fore add to future liabilities.

Ask Toro how that works..., I mean, do you read? seriously? Greece? Portugal? Bond markets and interest rates?


sallow-I don't know what happened to you in the last month to 6 weeks, I have seen a gradual change over that time, you're barely reasonable or logical anymore, if you are just going to knee jerk every single response, well, good luck with that amigo....but don't expect any serious or thoughtful responses anymore, you reap what you sow.




see what I mean?

Um.

No.

First off..we are not Greece or Portugal. We have a 13 trillion dollar economy. It's amazing anyone would even MENTION Greece or Portugal in the same sentence as the United States. And I've been to Greece. They have far ranging problems that are ingrained into the culture. Add in after joining the EU..they no longer controlled their own currency. Add in much of the borrowing was done to upgrade their military (why? I have no fucking idea).

So Greece having no control of it's own currency, having a weak econonmy to begin with and wasting that borrowed money on the military compares to the US in what way, exactly? I don't really know much about Portugal except that Lisbon sounds like a lovely city I might like to visit some day. But if I had the inclination I could probably see what led to their dilemma as well..

In any case..most rational economists will tell you that the way to stimulate the economy is to spend money. The way to cool it off is NOT to spend money. It's a VERY VERY VERY simple concept. People are not going to invest in the American economy if we are not dealing with it seriously. And it seems that they are still INVESTING in the economy. Take a look at the big boards every once in a while. Seems that people are again confident in the way things are going.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Um.

No.

First off..we are not Greece or Portugal. We have a 13 trillion dollar economy. It's amazing anyone would even MENTION Greece or Portugal in the same sentence as the United States. And I've been to Greece. They have far ranging problems that are ingrained into the culture. Add in after joining the EU..they no longer controlled their own currency. Add in much of the borrowing was done to upgrade their military (why? I have no fucking idea).

So Greece having no control of it's own currency, having a weak econonmy to begin with and wasting that borrowed money on the military compares to the US in what way, exactly? I don't really know much about Portugal except that Lisbon sounds like a lovely city I might like to visit some day. But if I had the inclination I could probably see what led to their dilemma as well..

In any case..most rational economists will tell you that the way to stimulate the economy is to spend money. The way to cool it off is NOT to spend money. It's a VERY VERY VERY simple concept. People are not going to invest in the American economy if we are not dealing with it seriously. And it seems that they are still INVESTING in the economy. Take a look at the big boards every once in a while. Seems that people are again confident in the way things are going.

While I rarely agree with what you say, and while you are usually wrong, I can at least respect the fact that you post as someone with at least some education and capacity for thought.

Jillian, take note.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Um.

No.

First off..we are not Greece or Portugal. We have a 13 trillion dollar economy. It's amazing anyone would even MENTION Greece or Portugal in the same sentence as the United States. And I've been to Greece. They have far ranging problems that are ingrained into the culture. Add in after joining the EU..they no longer controlled their own currency. Add in much of the borrowing was done to upgrade their military (why? I have no fucking idea).

So Greece having no control of it's own currency, having a weak econonmy to begin with and wasting that borrowed money on the military compares to the US in what way, exactly? I don't really know much about Portugal except that Lisbon sounds like a lovely city I might like to visit some day. But if I had the inclination I could probably see what led to their dilemma as well..

In any case..most rational economists will tell you that the way to stimulate the economy is to spend money. The way to cool it off is NOT to spend money. It's a VERY VERY VERY simple concept. People are not going to invest in the American economy if we are not dealing with it seriously. And it seems that they are still INVESTING in the economy. Take a look at the big boards every once in a while. Seems that people are again confident in the way things are going.

For every dollar you give the top 2 percent in tax cuts, it generates 1.03 on the economy.

For every dollar you give for the unemployed, the poor, and the middle class, it generates 1.63 on the economy.

Repeal the Bush Jr. tax cuts.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

For every dollar you give the top 2 percent in tax cuts, it generates 1.03 on the economy.

For every dollar you give for the unemployed, the poor, and the middle class, it generates 1.63 on the economy.

Repeal the Bush Jr. tax cuts.

What did the unemployed, poor, or middle class do to earn that money?

 

[Intense]

Don't we still have a military strength larger than the next ten nations combined?

You are very wrong about that.

Yeah..its probably more like all the nations, combined.

This country could destroy all life on the planet..many times over.

World Military Strength Ranking

 

[Intense]

U.S. Arms Transfers: Government Data
Recent News | FAS Resources | Other Databases | Reports


American arms manufacturers have two major channels through which they can sell major weaponry to foreign countries: foreign military sales ("FMS"), in which a government-to-government agreement is negotiated by the Pentagon; and direct commercial sales ("DCS"), in which industry negotiates directly with the purchasing country and must apply for a license from the State Department.

The United States government also transfers arms to other countries by giving away weapons from U.S.military stocks for free or at greatly reduced prices, classified as excess defense articles (EDA) or emergency "drawdowns." The United States also provides military training to many foreign countries. These transfers are also managed by the Defense Department. For more information about types of U.S.arms transfers, read the "Ways and Means" chapter of The Arms Trade Revealed.

•Reporting on Exported Articles and Services Needs to Be Improved, U.S. Government Accountability Office, 21 September 2010.
•"What is the "Total Package Approach"?," DSCA Director's Blog, 6 October 2009.
•Defense Trade Data, U.S. Government Accountability Office, GAO-06-319r, January 2006.
•Congressional Reports and DSCA Reports Control System, Appendix Five, Security Assistance Management Manual, Defense Security Cooperation Agency, U.S. Department of Defense. January 2006.
Recent News

•Section 655 Report on Direct Commercial Sales Authorizations for Fiscal Year 2009, March 2011
•"Documents Obtained by FAS Shed New Light on US Arms Transfers," Strategic Security Blog, 25 February 2011.
•"Agreements with and Deliveries to Major Clients, 2002-2009," Congressional Research Service, 20 December 2010.
•"Major U.S. Arms Sales and Grants to Pakistan Since 2001," Congressional Research Service, updated 4 january 2011.
•"DSCA Releases FY2010 Sales Figures," Defense Security Cooperation Agency, 10 November 2010.
•"Pentagon plans $60 billion weapons sale to Saudi Arabia," Washington Post, 21 October 2010.
•Historical Facts Book, U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency, October 2010.
•U.S. Agencies Need to Improve Licensing Data and to Document Reviews of Arms Transfers for U.S. Foreign Policy and National Security Goals, U.S. Government Accountability Office, 28 September 2010.
•Reporting on Exported Articles and Services Needs to Be Improved, U.S. Government Accountability Office, 21 September 2010.
•"Report reveals $11.7 billion in arms deliveries in 2009, but sheds little light on individual exports," Federation of American Scientists, 16 August 2010.
•"U.S. Saudi Sale May Have 84 F-15s, Total $30 Billion," Bloomberg, 22 July 2010.
•"U.S. Defense Department sold more than $15 billion in arms in the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2009, report reveals," FAS Issue Brief, 23 April 2010.
•"Eight Recommendations for Improving Transparency in US Arms Transfers," FAS Issue Brief, 8 January 2010.
•"Record High Foreign Military Sales," DSCA Director's Blog, 22 October 2009.
FAS Databases

•Database on Small Arms Shipments from the US, 1990-2000. US State Department data (obtained under the Freedom of Information Act) on commercial small arms shipments. Searchable by couuntry, region and year.
◦"A Guide to the US Small Arms Market, Industry, and Exports, 1998-2004 by Tamar Gabelnick, Maria Haug, and Lora Lumpe, Small Arms Survey Occasional Paper 19.

Federation of American Scientists :: U.S. Arms Transfers: Government Data

 

[The T]

Time short, tempers flare in budget showdown - Yahoo! News

The Republican House proposed spending bills and the Democratic Senate refused all of them. And the Democrats refuse to get serious on Budget cuts.

The Republicans submitted budgets with 60 billion in cuts, the Senate Democrats rejected them and came back with a paltry 10 billion in cuts.

The House was won on a promise to CUT the budget. The House is living up to that promise while the Democrats play with fire.

I see another CR coming...and this had better be the LAST ONE. Otherwise?

Shut it DOWN except Constitutionally mandated tasks.

*Seriously*

 

[Trajan]

Um.

No.

First off..we are not Greece or Portugal. We have a 13 trillion dollar economy. It's amazing anyone would even MENTION Greece or Portugal in the same sentence as the United States. And I've been to Greece. They have far ranging problems that are ingrained into the culture. Add in after joining the EU..they no longer controlled their own currency. Add in much of the borrowing was done to upgrade their military (why? I have no fucking idea).

the size of their econ. means little in this context, are you aware that standard and poors just downgraded them? The bonds they have to sell and pay interest on are moving up, because no on has faith that they will be able to enact the appropriate reforms by 2013?

Are you aware that we are purchasing our own bonds?

So Greece having no control of it's own currency, having a weak econonmy to begin with and wasting that borrowed money on the military compares to the US in what way, exactly?

yes, they gave up control by using the euro and they cannot mess with their money policy, and so what? you think that would have given them, minus wholesale reform any real relief except for the short term?

We are doing what they have done, whatever econ. model you wish to use, if you spend more than you take in, promise more than you can afford to pay out, eventually the tide goes out. Their tide has just gone out quicker than ours because we are the reserve currency and we have/hold more intrinsic value.

I don't really know much about Portugal except that Lisbon sounds like a lovely city I might like to visit some day. But if I had the inclination I could probably see what led to their dilemma as well..

have a gander-

Weak Educational System Hobbles Portugal - WSJ.com

In any case..most rational economists will tell you that the way to stimulate the economy is to spend money. The way to cool it off is NOT to spend money. It's a VERY VERY VERY simple concept.

actually its not, if you clam things are really getting better as part of a long term upswing the stimulus has very little to do with this, don't take my word for it ask Christine Romer who said in 2009, that by march 2010, the stimulus would have delivered pretty much the oomph it was going to.

But if you think we need another stimulus, ok so what, 500 billion, 8? lets make it a trillion, go ahead show me sppt. for this from a broad base set of economists, I would be interested in seeing that.

People are not going to invest in the American economy if we are not dealing with it seriously.

and adding debt. that we cannot hope to service, thats serious?

cutting 60 billion dollars is a sign we aren't serious? So, Clinton having that 'magic' surplus, that was a bad thing? why didn't he just keep spending? Balanced budgets are for the un-serious? So, your past comments as to Bush spending us into oblivion were what....wrong?

And it seems that they are still INVESTING in the economy. Take a look at the big boards every once in a while. Seems that people are again confident in the way things are going.

increased productivity and a low dollar have their virtues,....so btw what way are things going?

care to take a guess as what the job creation number will look like when they announce it next week? what do you think the 2nd gdp will come in at?
Nows your chance to go on the record...

its now 20 months after the end of the recession, you are satisfied with our progress?

 

[Trajan]

For every dollar you give the top 2 percent in tax cuts, it generates 1.03 on the economy.

For every dollar you give for the unemployed, the poor, and the middle class, it generates 1.63 on the economy.

Repeal the Bush Jr. tax cuts.

thank you dr. maddow or keynes, whichever.

do you know what a transfer payment is?

 

[Nic_Driver]

I know where there's more than $700 Billion available...

 

[Old Rocks]

So the Republicans submit unreasonable proposals, but it's all the Democrats' fault for not blindly agreeing with them? That's essentially what you're saying - it's all their fault for not "going along to get along."

We are spending TWICE what we get in revenue. And the Democrats proposed 10 billion in cuts? That is the JOKE. They lost in November because they can not understand we can not keep spending trillions each year. 60 billion given the deficit is a MINOR cut. 10 Billion is an insult.

Now we have the old dimbulb acting like the 61 billion cut proposed was in any way significant. Those cuts were all concerning ideological goals, none of which had anything to do with real attemps to balance the budget.

To balance the budget, we are going to have to not only cut spending, but also increase revenue. Time to get big business off of the government subsidy tit. Make a real corperate tax of 25%. You have $100 in profits, you pay $25 in tax. Put a real tax on the wealthy. Those making $1,000,000 or more pay 40%. No deducts.

Mortgage deducts only on homes $500,000 or less.

Cut all overseas military bases except those with heavy lift capabilities. Appoint a committee to oversee military spending the same way that the WPA spending was overseen.

Cancel all the Bush tax cuts. Including those for the middle class. Those of us that are working can afford them. Those that are not, aren't middle class anymore.

Without real tough action, involving all of us, this whole Teabagger routine is a fucking sham. Real deficit solution will require both spending cuts and tax increases. Doing it all on either side of the ledger is a fantasy.

 

[Jackson]

We are to the place where we are blaming the government shutdown on some group before the sutdown has even come. The games being played is appalling. The Shumer open mike showed us that.


Obama's quote from campaigning , "I will cut the deficit in Half" says it all. He had no intentions of doing such thing. The closest he came was freezing government salaries.

He increased the deficit and is no way helping this crisis, but acerbating it by spending more.

The Democrats thinks the have the Republicans where they want them and we haven't heard from Boehner on this issue talk to the people. We want some leadership from somewhere! They had better not be weak on this. It's showing their stripes as well.

 

[Old Rocks]

Time short, tempers flare in budget showdown - Yahoo! News

The Republican House proposed spending bills and the Democratic Senate refused all of them. And the Democrats refuse to get serious on Budget cuts.

The Republicans submitted budgets with 60 billion in cuts, the Senate Democrats rejected them and came back with a paltry 10 billion in cuts.

The House was won on a promise to CUT the budget. The House is living up to that promise while the Democrats play with fire.

I see another CR coming...and this had better be the LAST ONE. Otherwise?

Shut it DOWN except Constitutionally mandated tasks.

*Seriously*

Yes, by God, Yes, that worked so well for Newtie. I mean we have this recovery going, and it it continues to drop the unemployment, folks might get comfortable, and re-elect the President. So just shut the government down and blame it on Obama. That really worked well for Gingrinch with Clinton, didn't it?

 

[uscitizen]

Absolutely agree. The national debt is one of the top concerns of the American people and the Democrats are continuing the same arrogant, condescending attitude they had when they were in the majority, ignoring what the people want.

On the same token, though, the Republicans aren't delivering either. Rand Paul came up with $500 billion in cuts the GOP leadership scoffed at it.

Both parties are dicking around with us.

The problem is that people say that they want budget cuts, they just don't want anything cut that matters. So the politicians just play to the crowd.

Harris Interactive: Harris Polls > Cutting Government Spending May Be Popular But There Is Little Appetite For Cutting Specific Government Programs

This has to come from the ground up. The politicians will respond if the people demand it. But first, people have to accept that they have to pay a price in real spending cuts and tax increases to reduce the deficit, rather than expecting everyone else to feel the pain but not themselves.

Yep like drill baby drill but not in front of my beach front home.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Talk about games;

House passes 'force of law' budget bill

WASHINGTON, April 1 (UPI) -- The GOP-led U.S. House Friday narrowly passed a "force of law" bill that would make an earlier spending bill law without Senate or White House action

Wow, gamesmaship and Party over Country is all one can expect from the GOP...that and an increase in the wealth gap.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Talk about games;

House passes 'force of law' budget bill

WASHINGTON, April 1 (UPI) -- The GOP-led U.S. House Friday narrowly passed a "force of law" bill that would make an earlier spending bill law without Senate or White House action

Wow, gamesmaship and Party over Country is all one can expect from the GOP...that and an increase in the wealth gap.

You passed, civics 101, right?
Expalin how this can happen.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Talk about games;

House passes 'force of law' budget bill

WASHINGTON, April 1 (UPI) -- The GOP-led U.S. House Friday narrowly passed a "force of law" bill that would make an earlier spending bill law without Senate or White House action

Wow, gamesmaship and Party over Country is all one can expect from the GOP...that and an increase in the wealth gap.

You passed, civics 101, right?
Expalin how this can happen.

I did, did the Republican members of the House? They are the ones confused on the Constitutional separation of power...but they misrepresent the Constitution habitually so I suppose I understand why you don't think it's a big deal that they’ve done it again.

It's too bad people are calloused to the GOP.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Talk about games;

House passes 'force of law' budget bill

WASHINGTON, April 1 (UPI) -- The GOP-led U.S. House Friday narrowly passed a "force of law" bill that would make an earlier spending bill law without Senate or White House action

Wow, gamesmaship and Party over Country is all one can expect from the GOP...that and an increase in the wealth gap.

You passed, civics 101, right?
Expalin how this can happen.

I did, did the Republican members of the House? They are the ones confused on the Constitutional separation of power...but they misrepresent the Constitution habitually so I suppose I understand why you don't think it's a big deal that they’ve done it again.

It's too bad people are calloused to the GOP.

I dont see your explanation as to how this can happen...

 

[Dark Starscream]

In my debt tracking thread have noticed a major slowdown in the debt clock since the republicans took office on January 3rd, 2011.

Prior to that we were consistently adding $100 Billion to the debt every 22 days & in December 2010 It jumped $200 Billion in just 32 days. Culminating in a $14 Trillion debt on January 3rd 2011.

But now since the republicans have taken over the House at the $14 Trillion mark on January 3rd 2011. It has taken 84 days to rack up $260 Billion more debt. That is only about $68 Billion every 22 days compared to over a $100 Billion every 22 days when the Democrats controlled the House.

Republicans have slowed the debt train down by 38%. - - - Thank You Repubs !!!

That must be why Gold's rapid rise has slowed over this same time period.

You do realize that this year's budget was made last year while Democrats were in power, right?

You should be saying "Thank you, DEMS!"