Delegitimising Israel: Nobody does it better than the Israelis themselves

[Shusha]

How could Europeans have had the right to expel the native people of Palestine, subjugate the native people and steal their land?

Hey, monte, if all the European Jews left Israel and went "home" (ahem, cough, cough), would it be okay with your for the Jewish people to have a National Homeland, you know, in their actual ancestral homeland?

 

[Shusha]

... the International sector which was successfully taken by the Arab League to prevent the Jews from invading and expelling the non-Jews.

So, its okay for the Arabs to prevent the expulsion of non-Jews by, you know, expelling Jews?

 

[Eloy]

What does the IDF do in the "occupied territories". Be specific both about the behaviours and the territory (ie Area A, Gaza).

I would not recognize the manner in which the Israelis have divided-up the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, into different areas. The IDF should go home. While they are in Palestine, they subject the indigenous population to constant daily humiliation with nighttime home invasions, long lines in there own land going from one place to another and negotiating checkpoints, being kept in small reservations while Israeli settlers take the best land and water resources, subjected to sniper while demonstrating, summary executions even while disabled, children kidnapped and held for interrogation without the presence of a parent or legal counsel, the soiling of homes with foul-smelling liquid, permitting settlers to harass children going and coming from school, defending settlers while they throw rocks at Palestinian farmers attempting to work their land, etc.
I have written about the actions of the IDF in Gaza already.

Should Hamas and the PA (also governments) also be held accountable? Why or why not?

Of course they should but only for their own actions and not for rogue elements.

 

[montelatici]

How could Europeans have had the right to expel the native people of Palestine, subjugate the native people and steal their land?

Hey, monte, if all the European Jews left Israel and went "home" (ahem, cough, cough), would it be okay with your for the Jewish people to have a National Homeland, you know, in their actual ancestral homeland?

The ancestors of the European Zionist Jews were European, their homeland was in Europe.

 

[montelatici]

... the International sector which was successfully taken by the Arab League to prevent the Jews from invading and expelling the non-Jews.

So, its okay for the Arabs to prevent the expulsion of non-Jews by, you know, expelling Jews?

The Jews were expelling the non-Jews, not the other way around.

 

[Hollie]

How could Europeans have had the right to expel the native people of Palestine, subjugate the native people and steal their land?

Hey, monte, if all the European Jews left Israel and went "home" (ahem, cough, cough), would it be okay with your for the Jewish people to have a National Homeland, you know, in their actual ancestral homeland?

The ancestors of the European Zionist Jews were European, their homeland was in Europe.

The ancestors of the Arab-Moslem muhammedans were from various areas across the Middle East. Various invaders controlled the area you define as the mythical "country of Pal'istan.

 

[Phoenall]

I am not that familiar with this forum to know for sure that your statistics are correct but not everyone who holds some of the opinions in your two long lists makes them antisemites. So, for example, I believe Israel was founded on stolen Palestinian land and I also believe Israel for its occupation of Palestine, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, thus assigning responsibility for the continued conflict only on the Israelis. I am not, however, antisemitic.

I didn't say that people who held these opinions were anti-semitic. I said it was not valid criticism of Israel. But since you brought it up....

Let's talk about stolen Palestinian land. What land was Palestinian land? Why was it Palestinian land? What made it Palestinian land?

What land was Israeli land? Why was it Israeli land? What made it Israeli land?

If land somewhere in the territory is empty and open for building upon is it Palestinian land or Israeli land? Can Arab Palestinians build on that land? Can Jews build on that land?

If you can convince me that you give the same rights to both peoples I will agree that you are not delegitimizing Israel and the Jewish people. I don't think you can, but give it your best shot.

Based on my limited experience on internet boards, I am convinced that nothing I write will persuade you to change your opinions. In other words, I would likely waste my time and yours. As a courtesy, I will answer your questions as best I can:

What land was Palestinian land?
Palestinian land is the land of the Palestine.

Why was it Palestinian land?
It was Palestinian land because it was named so.

What made it Palestinian land?
It was made Palestinian land by the people in classical times by Greeks and later Romans as the province of Syria Palaestina.

What land was Israeli land?
Israeli land was (and is) the land of the Jewish state of Israel.

Why was it Israeli land?
It was (and is) Israeli land because it forms the Jewish state of Israel.

What made it Israeli land?
It became Israeli land when the Jewish state of Israel was founded in 1948.

If land somewhere in the territory is empty and open for building upon is it Palestinian land or Israeli land?
Whether land is Palestinian or Israeli depends on whether it is in the Jewish state of Israel or the state of Palestine.

Can Arab Palestinians build on that land? Can Jews build on that land?
Yes, Arab Palestinians and Jews have the moral right to build on land in the Jewish state of Israel and in the state of Palestine. Unfortunately, the Israeli government restricts Arab-Israelis from building in Israel and Palestinians under occupation have onerous restrictions from building in their homeland. Palestinians who build in Gaza have homes and infrastructure of schools and hospitals and water treatment plants destroyed every decade or so.

1) what palestine or should that be palestine what

2) did it, then it cant be arab muslim as they were not invented until at least 700 years later

3) Correct and was granted under international law. A law you deny because it gives Israel powers over the arab muslims

4) WRONG it is Israeli land because international law says it is. And then the UN says it is

5) WRONG it is Israel's land because the LoN granted it to them under international treaty and international law. The same treaty and law that granted trans Jordan to the "palestinians", and the lands to the other arab muslim groups in the surrounding area

6) Correct, and the problem begins in were do the two meet. No treaty as demanded by the UN as the arab muslims refuse to negotiate due to the 3 no's

7) Only if they meet with local planning/zoning laws. And the arab muslims constantly breach these laws. THEN YOU LIE AS ONLY A NEO NAZI CAN AS ISRAEL DOES NOT" have homes and infrastructure of schools and hospitals and water treatment plants destroyed every decade or so." THEY HAVE MILITARY STRUCTURE DESTROYED. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT GAZA ON GOOGLE EARTH LATELY AND SEEN THAT 50% IS OPEN LAND, AND THAT IS WHERE THE ARAB MUSLIMS SHOULD BE ENGAGING THE IDF FROM. NOT FROM SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS, MOSQUES OR CIVILIAN STRUCTURES.

 

[Phoenall]

I also believe Israel for its occupation of Palestine, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, thus assigning responsibility for the continued conflict only on the Israelis. I am not, however, antisemitic.

I think you mean "blame" rather than believe?

You are legitimizing conflict perpetrated by the Palestinians while delegitimizing conflict perpetrated by Israel. Why the double standard? Why is it permissible for a Palestinian to stab a Jew while it is not permissible for a Jew to stab an Arab? Why are Palestinians permitted to "defend themselves" in the form of attacks against innocents, but Jews are not permitted to defend themselves in the form of attacks against innocents or even combatants?

Seems to me you have different rules and "rights" for different people.

Yes, I mean blame and believe. What the Israel Defense Force does in the occupied territories of Palestine is government policy and must, therefore, accept blame for their actions. As a government policy, the Jewish state of Israel must be held accountable. Individual acts of resistance by some Palestinians are acting on their own and are of a different order. For this reason, the odious policy of the Israeli government to collectively punish the children and families for acts of resistance by individuals or rogue groups is criminal.

Even though international law says it isnt and that the IDF are within the rules. Read the Geneva conventions on this subject. You do realise that the US also collectively punishes families when it puts a criminal in prison out in the middle of nowhere dont you

 

[Phoenall]

... the International sector which was successfully taken by the Arab League to prevent the Jews from invading and expelling the non-Jews.

So, its okay for the Arabs to prevent the expulsion of non-Jews by, you know, expelling Jews?

The Jews were expelling the non-Jews, not the other way around.

So where have 90% of the Christian population of gaza and the west bank gone. The Jews havent expelled them have they as they themselves state that it is hamas and fatah to blame

 

[Phoenall]

What land was Israeli land? Why was it Israeli land? What made it Israeli land?

Good question.

Israel has never legally acquired any land.

LIAR as you have been shown the LoN granted the land to the Jews under international law. And if you refute this law then you also refute the formation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon as they are also part of it

 

[Phoenall]

No, I cannot do better. Perhaps someone else can answer your questions.

I would suggest that you can't answer the questions because it will reveal that you, in fact, hold two different sets of "rights" for two different peoples. Perhaps you were not aware of it yourself until presented with it. But there it is.

How could Europeans have had the right to expel the native people of Palestine, subjugate the native people and steal their land?

The same way you lot of Europeans expelled the native people of India, Africa, America's and Australia and steal their lands. Double standards in place when the Jews return to their roots and reclaim their homeland

 

[Phoenall]

At least 85% of the land was owned by the Palestinian Arab population, another 8% was owned by non-Jews, non-Palestinians and only 6% was owned by the Zionist Jews. So, in large part (85%) the land was stolen from the Palestinian natives, Muslims and Christians by the European Jews.

"UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/364
3 September 1947

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

Where does it say "OWNED" ?

 

[Phoenall]

What land was Palestinian land?
Palestinian land is the land of the Palestine.

Why was it Palestinian land?
It was Palestinian land because it was named so.

You can do better than that.

It was also named Israel, Judea and Samaria. So why isn't it Israeli, Judean and Samarian land? Jordan was also once named Palestine, so is Jordan also stolen "Palestinian land"? Why or why not? Is France stolen Aquitane land?

Who has the rights to sovereignty in "Palestine"? Do those rights extend to seceding? Is secession stealing?

Palestine was the successor state to Turkey by treaty.

Israel was the successor state to Palestine by military force.

There is a legal problem with the latter.

There would be if it was the truth, but seeing as it is a LIE then you lose again.

What tteaty names palestine under arab muslim control as a successor state ?

It was the arab muslims that started the military force in 1947

And it is time the UN took action against the arab muslims for their criminal actions

 

[Phoenall]

Nope, the Arab League forces didn't cross into the Jewish partition. The fighting took place in the Arab partition where the Arab League forces tried to expel the Jewish invaders, and in the International sector which was successfully taken by the Arab League to prevent the Jews from invading and expelling the non-Jews.

The Jews invaded the Arab partition conquered Arab cities and destroyed Arab towns long before the declaration of independence or the Arab League's intervention.

For example, Jaffa had been under Jew attack for months before the city surrendered to the Jews on May 13, 1948. Two days before the Jews declared independence.

"Jaffa surrendered to forces of the Haganah on May 13, 1948, two days before the State of Israel was declared.
read more: Why did Palestinian Jaffa fall more quickly than Jerusalem in 1948?

So, as usual, you just post lies.

The partition was not in place, so the whole was mandate of palestine that the arab league forces had no right to be in. there was no arab partition as they had denied its existence. The arab forces in Jaffa set up a resistance to the Jewish approach and realised they had no means of escape so surrendered

Yes monte you do and I have debunked 30 of yours this morning alone

 

[Phoenall]

The zionist terror groups declared independence from whom?

The mandate of course, are you that stupid you dont understand what was happening. This is like me asking you who Jordan declared independence from in 1946 ?

 

[Phoenall]

Some jewish people defend israeli crimes not because they are Israeli, but rather they identify as jews, that has to be racism sasha t?

Is it racism when you muslims do it ?

 

[Phoenall]

What does the IDF do in the "occupied territories". Be specific both about the behaviours and the territory (ie Area A, Gaza).

I would not recognize the manner in which the Israelis have divided-up the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, into different areas. The IDF should go home. While they are in Palestine, they subject the indigenous population to constant daily humiliation with nighttime home invasions, long lines in there own land going from one place to another and negotiating checkpoints, being kept in small reservations while Israeli settlers take the best land and water resources, subjected to sniper while demonstrating, summary executions even while disabled, children kidnapped and held for interrogation without the presence of a parent or legal counsel, the soiling of homes with foul-smelling liquid, permitting settlers to harass children going and coming from school, defending settlers while they throw rocks at Palestinian farmers attempting to work their land, etc.
I have written about the actions of the IDF in Gaza already.

Should Hamas and the PA (also governments) also be held accountable? Why or why not?

Of course they should but only for their own actions and not for rogue elements.

They are home, or are you denying International laws again




As for the rest how about proof from an unbiased source that says this is happening. You might find that the hate sites you use dont point to the truth.

 

[Phoenall]

How could Europeans have had the right to expel the native people of Palestine, subjugate the native people and steal their land?

Hey, monte, if all the European Jews left Israel and went "home" (ahem, cough, cough), would it be okay with your for the Jewish people to have a National Homeland, you know, in their actual ancestral homeland?

The ancestors of the European Zionist Jews were European, their homeland was in Europe.

Was that before you Roman Catholics stole them in the 4C and took them to Europe ? Why do you ignore your part in the theft of women and children as slaves in the name of Christianity ?

 

[Phoenall]

... the International sector which was successfully taken by the Arab League to prevent the Jews from invading and expelling the non-Jews.

So, its okay for the Arabs to prevent the expulsion of non-Jews by, you know, expelling Jews?

The Jews were expelling the non-Jews, not the other way around.

BULLSHIT

 

[P F Tinmore]

The zionist terror groups declared independence from whom?

The mandate of course, are you that stupid you dont understand what was happening. This is like me asking you who Jordan declared independence from in 1946 ?

But the war of independence was not with the Mandate.