~Define An Alcoholic~

Swagger

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Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.

In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated.

In a typically male, Anglo-Saxon environment, it's not unusual to see copious amounts of alcohol consumed. Take, for instance, when me and my men are working out of town. We finish for the week in our temporary digs, get washed and fed, then we'll head-out to a few pubs. We'll usually return to the digs with 50+ cans of strong beer, some cannabis and (on occasion) some cocaine. We then plot down and get violently drunk whilst bragging and talking bullshit over a game of cards.

However, I know for a fact that neither myself or anyone I employ is an alcoholic, functioning or otherwise. Seriously, I remember watching an episode of that ghastly Gerry Springer show where some woman was publically accused by a friend of child neglect because she'd have a bottle of beer followed by 3 or 4 shots. Do me a bleedin' favour! It's all about perspective. Honestly, you should see what goes on in some of the digs occupied by Russian contractors I've worked with. By the sounds of it, it would make the hairs on your comparatively lily-livered American backs stand on end.

Anyway, my answer.

A dependent alcoholic, in my opinion, thinks about where their first drink of the day will come from upon waking.And no, I don't speak from experience.
 

Grace

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Many alcoholics share similar patterns of drinking and behavior but not all. Again some do start drinking at wake up; others wait until the end of the work day; others can go days or weeks in between 'binges'. Some drink only beer; some only wine; some only vodka; some anything alcoholic they can get their hands on. There is no rule of how it has to work.

I'm sorry Grace had such a terrible experience with Al Anon but she was obviously in a group that didn't ever get the program. Millions have reclaimed their lives and dispelled the demons that plagued them in Al-Anon groups as have millions reclaimed their lives through AA or similar programs. People being so different, it is impossible for the same system/program will be effective for everybody, whether the addict or the co-dependent.

I had one friend who went through detox and a 30-day in house treatment program seven times before he finally got the program and got sober. Now he is one of AA's strongest advocates, but he is walking proof that falling off the wagon doesn't doom you. :)
It wasn't alanon that was full of gossipy old hens and assholes. it was AA and NA!!!
 

Mad Scientist

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In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
Someone who drinks every day??
Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
Just what is an alcoholic??
When the alcohol affects a persons job, relationships and/or health. If he/she can't keep a job or can't get along with others as a result of his or her drinking, then they could be considered alcoholics.
 

ABikerSailor

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A quick way to diagnose someone as alcoholic is when they are physically and/or mentally dependent on alcohol as a way to make them feel normal.

Some who are physically addicted can end up going into convulsions if they quit.

Binge drinkers don't "feel right" unless they are celebrating (or mourning) something and they have a drink in their hand.

Basically, alcoholics drink because of something in their past that they feel pain over, and alcohol is the only anesthetic that they've found that works.

Which is why the 12 steps work so well, it gives you a framework to discover the truth about yourself and take appropriate actions to fix the problem (other than drinking).

I was a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor for the U.S. Navy for over 8 years.
Oh please. The 12-Steps don't work any where near what it's hyped out to. Only about 5% of those who use it stay sober past the first year. About the same amount that do so without any treatment program what so ever. It doesn't teach you how to discover any sort of truth. All it does is get you addicted to a religion cult. If you were a Alcohol Program Advisor in the Navy, you probably lied to sailors about it not being religious "but spritual" and forced them to attend religious activities, which didn't do them any damned good. :eusa_pray::cuckoo:

They drink because of something in their past that they feel pain over?
You don't know what the hell you're talking about. We all feel pain over past events.
Feel normal? From drinking? Are you out of your mind? Binge drinkers don't feel right unless they're celebrating? WTF are you talking about?
Tell ya what you sperm burping brick with feet, when you've actually MET me, and have actually TALKED to me, THEN you can call me a liar.

As far as the other stuff? Well, I've got 8 years experience in the field, and also did time as a volunteer counselor in both Newport RI as well as Fall River MA at local detox centers.

What have YOU done?
 

Grace

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I'm trying very hard to visualize what a sperm burping brick with feet would look like. Do bricks have open orifices?
 
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In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
Someone who drinks every day??
Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
Just what is an alcoholic??
In your eyes? What the hell difference does that make? It's a medically defined illness... what any individual thinks is of no relevance.

You ask really stupid questions sometimes.
 

strollingbones

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I have always been virtually allergic to beverage alcohol.

I don't like anything about it. I don't like the smell, I can't stand the taste and every time I've tried it the effect has ranged from a bad headache to extreme nausea. I've considered that a fortunate circumstance ever since I learned there is an identified predisposition to alcoholism.

For those who are predisposed alcohol is the most insidiously addictive and biologically destructive drug of all. It kills hundreds of thousands of Americans every year and makes many thousands more very sick.
And there does seem to be an identifiable gene for it or at least the propensity does run in families. That 1 out of 10 people who drink will become alcoholic? The ratio is much wider for those without addictions in the family. But when it runs in a family, a disproportionate number of folks will have a problem and a disproportionate number of those who don't develop alcoholism themselves will be attracted to alcoholics because they are already conditioned to the dynamics of an alcoholic personality and it feels comfortable and normal to them. If the person is not an alcoholic it may be somebody hooked on other drugs or gambling or some such. All addictions share some common denominators but alcoholism seems to be the only one that is hereditary.

i think it is....my grandfather like to drink...my father loved to drink....and i can be a hard drinker....but then i think....what an old friend told me addiction was....

"are you using the drug or is the drug using you"

i have now learned to order one heavy drink and quit....but of course no one at the table realizes what i am ordering....i have learned to pass well....as a social drinker....cause i had to at one time...it amuses me to watch people now....i know the game...i know the code words...i know i dont wanna be there....one think i am thankful for...my son was too young to realize how much i was drinking.....i am so thankful for that..that today he doesnt remember his mother as a drunk
 

strollingbones

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Alcoholics have some of the most incredible self control you'll ever see. They go to extremes to arrange their lives around their addiction....

and sometimes ....in spite of yourself....allie you just nailed it.......so totally nailed it
 

Grace

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When i start looking for a new roomie again, I plan to word it very bluntly. "No drugs, no drug use and then coming in my home, no sneaking booze, no games.Been there, done that, know every trick in the book so don't think you can get away with it".
 

Swagger

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In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
Someone who drinks every day??
Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
Just what is an alcoholic??
In your eyes? What the hell difference does that make? It's a medically defined illness... what any individual thinks is of no relevance.

You ask really stupid questions sometimes.
Why do you insist on being so unnecessarily scathing all the time?
 

AllieBaba

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Any alcoholic in recovery will tell you, they are ALWAYS an alcoholic.

And no alcoholic wants to be an alcoholic. Yet at the same time, they are the only ones who can affect a *cure*.

I certainly spent a lot of time drinking, hard, when I was younger. But you know there came a point when it just wasn't fun anymore, and when that happened, I quit. So now I wonder, was I an alcoholic, or was I just in a stage where I made it a part of my life? I mean, if you're an alcoholic, you're one forever, right? I spent 20 years of my life thinking the most fun thing in the world was to go to parties, hit the bars, etc...and consume copious amounts of liquor...I do mean copious.

I have no desire to pick up that lifestyle again, and I'm not concerned about it at all. I don't want to drink at all for the most part...when I do, I have a couple and I'm done. I'm not interested in going to bars, I don't want to go to parties...not because they're uncomfortable for me but because that's just not fun anymore, I have other things to do. Now I view them as a waste of time..there was a time when they were a goal!

So who the hell knows. I don't miss it, think I was silly to ever think it was fun, but I feel that way about a lot of the pursuits of my younger days.

You are not an alcoholic. :clap2:
:thewave::woohoo::banana:

I think probably technically, I could be considered one....but since it's not a problem any longer, I don't spend much time worrying about it.

And I don't have the craving that alcoholics claim never goes away. Now I craved it when I was in party mode, but not any more.

I'm a fucking human oddity, that's all there is to it.

 
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AllieBaba

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A quick way to diagnose someone as alcoholic is when they are physically and/or mentally dependent on alcohol as a way to make them feel normal.

Some who are physically addicted can end up going into convulsions if they quit.

Binge drinkers don't "feel right" unless they are celebrating (or mourning) something and they have a drink in their hand.

Basically, alcoholics drink because of something in their past that they feel pain over, and alcohol is the only anesthetic that they've found that works.

Which is why the 12 steps work so well, it gives you a framework to discover the truth about yourself and take appropriate actions to fix the problem (other than drinking).

I was a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor for the U.S. Navy for over 8 years.
Oh please. The 12-Steps don't work any where near what it's hyped out to. Only about 5% of those who use it stay sober past the first year. About the same amount that do so without any treatment program what so ever. It doesn't teach you how to discover any sort of truth. All it does is get you addicted to a religion cult. If you were a Alcohol Program Advisor in the Navy, you probably lied to sailors about it not being religious "but spritual" and forced them to attend religious activities, which didn't do them any damned good. :eusa_pray::cuckoo:

They drink because of something in their past that they feel pain over?
You don't know what the hell you're talking about. We all feel pain over past events.
Feel normal? From drinking? Are you out of your mind? Binge drinkers don't feel right unless they're celebrating? WTF are you talking about?
Tell ya what you sperm burping brick with feet, when you've actually MET me, and have actually TALKED to me, THEN you can call me a liar.

As far as the other stuff? Well, I've got 8 years experience in the field, and also did time as a volunteer counselor in both Newport RI as well as Fall River MA at local detox centers.

What have YOU done?
Who cares, he still wins. You're a loser.
 
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In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
Someone who drinks every day??
Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
Just what is an alcoholic??
In your eyes? What the hell difference does that make? It's a medically defined illness... what any individual thinks is of no relevance.

You ask really stupid questions sometimes.
Why do you insist on being so unnecessarily scathing all the time?
I have a lot tolerance for stupid. Idiot.
 

Swagger

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Sunshine

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Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.

In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated.

In a typically male, Anglo-Saxon environment, it's not unusual to see copious amounts of alcohol consumed. Take, for instance, when me and my men are working out of town. We finish for the week in our temporary digs, get washed and fed, then we'll head-out to a few pubs. We'll usually return to the digs with 50+ cans of strong beer, some cannabis and (on occasion) some cocaine. We then plot down and get violently drunk whilst bragging and talking bullshit over a game of cards.

However, I know for a fact that neither myself or anyone I employ is an alcoholic, functioning or otherwise. Seriously, I remember watching an episode of that ghastly Gerry Springer show where some woman was publically accused by a friend of child neglect because she'd have a bottle of beer followed by 3 or 4 shots. Do me a bleedin' favour! It's all about perspective. Honestly, you should see what goes on in some of the digs occupied by Russian contractors I've worked with. By the sounds of it, it would make the hairs on your comparatively lily-livered American backs stand on end.

Anyway, my answer.

A dependent alcoholic, in my opinion, thinks about where their first drink of the day will come from upon waking.And no, I don't speak from experience.
When alcohol has become the primary relationship in the person's life, he is an alcoholic.
 

Swagger

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Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.

In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated.

In a typically male, Anglo-Saxon environment, it's not unusual to see copious amounts of alcohol consumed. Take, for instance, when me and my men are working out of town. We finish for the week in our temporary digs, get washed and fed, then we'll head-out to a few pubs. We'll usually return to the digs with 50+ cans of strong beer, some cannabis and (on occasion) some cocaine. We then plot down and get violently drunk whilst bragging and talking bullshit over a game of cards.

However, I know for a fact that neither myself or anyone I employ is an alcoholic, functioning or otherwise. Seriously, I remember watching an episode of that ghastly Gerry Springer show where some woman was publically accused by a friend of child neglect because she'd have a bottle of beer followed by 3 or 4 shots. Do me a bleedin' favour! It's all about perspective. Honestly, you should see what goes on in some of the digs occupied by Russian contractors I've worked with. By the sounds of it, it would make the hairs on your comparatively lily-livered American backs stand on end.

Anyway, my answer.

A dependent alcoholic, in my opinion, thinks about where their first drink of the day will come from upon waking.And no, I don't speak from experience.
When alcohol has become the primary relationship in the person's life, he is an alcoholic.
Alcohol's just my mistress, then.
 

Kooshdakhaa

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Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.

In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated.

In a typically male, Anglo-Saxon environment, it's not unusual to see copious amounts of alcohol consumed. Take, for instance, when me and my men are working out of town. We finish for the week in our temporary digs, get washed and fed, then we'll head-out to a few pubs. We'll usually return to the digs with 50+ cans of strong beer, some cannabis and (on occasion) some cocaine. We then plot down and get violently drunk whilst bragging and talking bullshit over a game of cards.

However, I know for a fact that neither myself or anyone I employ is an alcoholic, functioning or otherwise. Seriously, I remember watching an episode of that ghastly Gerry Springer show where some woman was publically accused by a friend of child neglect because she'd have a bottle of beer followed by 3 or 4 shots. Do me a bleedin' favour! It's all about perspective. Honestly, you should see what goes on in some of the digs occupied by Russian contractors I've worked with. By the sounds of it, it would make the hairs on your comparatively lily-livered American backs stand on end.

Anyway, my answer.

A dependent alcoholic, in my opinion, thinks about where their first drink of the day will come from upon waking.And no, I don't speak from experience.
When alcohol has become the primary relationship in the person's life, he is an alcoholic.
But he is an alcoholic even before that. I believe we are born alcoholics. The disease is just dormant until we drink. Then when we start drinking it becomes progressively worse and worse.
 

Foxfyre

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Any alcoholic in recovery will tell you, they are ALWAYS an alcoholic.

And no alcoholic wants to be an alcoholic. Yet at the same time, they are the only ones who can affect a *cure*.

I certainly spent a lot of time drinking, hard, when I was younger. But you know there came a point when it just wasn't fun anymore, and when that happened, I quit. So now I wonder, was I an alcoholic, or was I just in a stage where I made it a part of my life? I mean, if you're an alcoholic, you're one forever, right? I spent 20 years of my life thinking the most fun thing in the world was to go to parties, hit the bars, etc...and consume copious amounts of liquor...I do mean copious.

I have no desire to pick up that lifestyle again, and I'm not concerned about it at all. I don't want to drink at all for the most part...when I do, I have a couple and I'm done. I'm not interested in going to bars, I don't want to go to parties...not because they're uncomfortable for me but because that's just not fun anymore, I have other things to do. Now I view them as a waste of time..there was a time when they were a goal!

So who the hell knows. I don't miss it, think I was silly to ever think it was fun, but I feel that way about a lot of the pursuits of my younger days.

You are not an alcoholic. :clap2:
:thewave::woohoo::banana:

I think probably technically, I could be considered one....but since it's not a problem any longer, I don't spend much time worrying about it.

And I don't have the craving that alcoholics claim never goes away. Now I craved it when I was in party mode, but not any more.

I'm a fucking human oddity, that's all there is to it.

Actually, there may be some people for whom the craving never stops, but i think that must be very rare. Most alcoholics who get clean and sober do lose their craving snd no longer miss it. Every now and then they will miss that cold beer or the glass of wine at dinner, but they don't obsess about it. It is like a long reformed smoker who has long broken the addiction. Every once in awhile a stiuation comes up that you think how great it would be to pull out a cig and calm yourself with it or just enjoy it--you remember those thimes. But you don't obsess about it and that momentary temptation quickly passes.

Temptation and craving are two separate things.

Most alcoholics who get the program work the program even after they stop going to AA meetings or whatever. It is a great way to live, to deal with problems, to solve problems that used to be settled with alcohol. Those who stay in it for years and years do so long after they've lost all desire to drink. They help themselves by helping others and I think God reserves a special wonderful place in heaven for them.

To Grace, a bad AA group doesn't get the program any more than a bad Al-anon group gets the program. Both can be more destructive than helpful and I encourage any who lok to such groups for help locate one that is doing the job. Sobriety doesn't make smart people out of idiots nor saints out of ass holes, but it is well worth obtaining for the Alcoholic or Al-anon.
 

AllieBaba

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Who knows, it hurts my head to try to figure it out. I tend to think if you can't have a drink when you want one for fear of what you'll do, you're probably an alcoholic. If you drink enough that someone in your life is asking you, "have you been drinking?" on a regular basis, and you have arguments based upon it, you're probably an alcoholic.

As for the rest, who knows. I think I drank too much and probably could have qualified as an alcholic...except I pretty much quit. Not cold turkey, kind of slowly over time, it just became less and less a part of what I do. And I still have a drink once in a while, and it's not a problem at all.

I guess it doesn't matter! At least not for me...
 

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