Deficit Denial?

[merrill]

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

From the source:

What impact would the conversion to private accounts have on the national debt?

The government would have to borrow an additional $4 trillion over the next 20 years to make up the money that would be drained out of the system by private accounts.

Former President Bush and Congress racked up an average $793 billion deficit each year Bush was in office.

Social Security privatization would raise the size of the government’s deficit by another $300 billion per year for the next 20 years. This does not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power.

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion. Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy. Another 30% of the national debt had been created by the tax cuts for the wealthy under Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush. Fully 81% of the national debt was created by just these three Republican Presidents.

Dollars and Sense

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion. Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

Yes, I saw the silly claim, I was looking for proof.

Doug Orr is a professor of economics at Eastern Washington University. He speaks and writes regularly about Social Security.

Is this Doug Orr person wrong?

 

[merrill]

This does not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power. Reagan,Bush and Bush never complained instead they expanded the debt under Supply Side Economics which is all about borrow and spend, borrow and spend , borrow and spend etc etc etc.

Obama will need to borrow more to make up for the 8 years Bush/Cheney spent destroying the economy. There is no other way because the banks that got bailed out gave the money away to the executives as a bonus.

With corporations routinely defaulting on their pension promises, more and more workers must rely on their individual wealth to make up the difference. The stock market collapse at the turn of the millennium wiped out much of the financial wealth of middle class Americans, and the collapse of the housing bubble has wiped out much of their remaining wealth.

The millions of jobs losses have yet to come back. Where are they? Where did they go?

How many more home loan scams do republicans have in store for the USA? One under Reagan/Bush and one under Bush/Cheney is not enough?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

From the source:

What impact would the conversion to private accounts have on the national debt?

The government would have to borrow an additional $4 trillion over the next 20 years to make up the money that would be drained out of the system by private accounts.

Former President Bush and Congress racked up an average $793 billion deficit each year Bush was in office.

Social Security privatization would raise the size of the government’s deficit by another $300 billion per year for the next 20 years. This does not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power.

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion. Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy. Another 30% of the national debt had been created by the tax cuts for the wealthy under Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush. Fully 81% of the national debt was created by just these three Republican Presidents.

Dollars and Sense

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion. Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

Yes, I saw the silly claim, I was looking for proof.

Doug Orr is a professor of economics at Eastern Washington University. He speaks and writes regularly about Social Security.

Is this Doug Orr person wrong?

I don't know, I haven't seen the proof of his claim. Have you?

 

[merrill]

BTW no one is denying there is a deficit? Local and state governments also have deficits. All of us on this board have some deficit going.

Why is it so wrong to have deficit?

 

[merrill]

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion. Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

Yes, I saw the silly claim, I was looking for proof.

Doug Orr is a professor of economics at Eastern Washington University. He speaks and writes regularly about Social Security.

Is this Doug Orr person wrong?

I don't know, I haven't seen the proof of his claim. Have you?

Neither have you seen any type of rebuttal against this man's research. The fact is no rebuttal is out there.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This does not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power. Reagan,Bush and Bush never complained instead they expanded the debt under Supply Side Economics which is all about borrow and spend, borrow and spend , borrow and spend etc etc etc.

Obama will need to borrow more to make up for the 8 years Bush/Cheney spent destroying the economy. There is no other way because the banks that got bailed out gave the money away to the executives as a bonus.

With corporations routinely defaulting on their pension promises, more and more workers must rely on their individual wealth to make up the difference. The stock market collapse at the turn of the millennium wiped out much of the financial wealth of middle class Americans, and the collapse of the housing bubble has wiped out much of their remaining wealth.

The millions of jobs losses have yet to come back. Where are they? Where did they go?

How many more home loan scams do republicans have in store for the USA? One under Reagan/Bush and one under Bush/Cheney is not enough?

There is no other way because the banks that got bailed out gave the money away to the executives as a bonus.

Tha bank TARP was repaid, with a decent profit to the Treasury.

How many more home loan scams do republicans have in store for the USA?

Yeah, that Fannie and Freddie scam was awful. Cost us over $125 billion in taxpayer money so far. Damn Republicans. Oh, wait, that was the Democrats, never mind.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Doug Orr is a professor of economics at Eastern Washington University. He speaks and writes regularly about Social Security.

Is this Doug Orr person wrong?

I don't know, I haven't seen the proof of his claim. Have you?

Neither have you seen any type of rebuttal against this man's research. The fact is no rebuttal is out there.

He threw out a huge number, with no backup. How can an imaginary number be rebutted?

 

[merrill]

I don't know, I haven't seen the proof of his claim. Have you?

Neither have you seen any type of rebuttal against this man's research. The fact is no rebuttal is out there.

He threw out a huge number, with no backup. How can an imaginary number be rebutted?

If it were available it would be there. Obama’s impact on the rise of the debt, as it was not just spending, but a decline in revenue that is responsible for the sharp rise in federal budget deficits. Obama has proposed policies to help reduce the deficit and it seems strange to suggest he has done nothing about it.

Who's saying it is a problem?

The deficit is over exaggerated as a problem.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Neither have you seen any type of rebuttal against this man's research. The fact is no rebuttal is out there.

He threw out a huge number, with no backup. How can an imaginary number be rebutted?

If it were available it would be there. Obama’s impact on the rise of the debt, as it was not just spending, but a decline in revenue that is responsible for the sharp rise in federal budget deficits. Obama has proposed policies to help reduce the deficit and it seems strange to suggest he has done nothing about it.

Who's saying it is a problem?

The deficit is over exaggerated as a problem.

If it were available it would be there.

He made a claim with no available backup?
That's funny.
Pretty weak for a professor of economics.

 

[merrill]

He threw out a huge number, with no backup. How can an imaginary number be rebutted?

If it were available it would be there. Obama’s impact on the rise of the debt, as it was not just spending, but a decline in revenue that is responsible for the sharp rise in federal budget deficits. Obama has proposed policies to help reduce the deficit and it seems strange to suggest he has done nothing about it.

Who's saying it is a problem?

The deficit is over exaggerated as a problem.

If it were available it would be there.

He made a claim with no available backup?
That's funny.
Pretty weak for a professor of economics.

YOU certainly cannot prove him wrong.

 

[merrill]

Let's educate thyselves:


--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Bailing out The Reagan/Bush Savings and Loan Heist aka home loan scandal sent the economy out the window costing taxpayers 124.6 billion $$$$, in addition to millions of jobs, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance which could substantially
increase the cost to taxpayers.
The Bush family and the S&L (Savings and Loan) Scandal

--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT Bailing out the Bush/Cheney Home Loan Wall Street Bank Fraud cost consumers $ trillions, millions of jobs, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance. Exactly like the Reagan/Bush home loan scam. Déjà vu can we say. Yep seems to be a pattern.
What is the difference between a Ponzi scheme and a housing bubble? | Dollars & Sense

--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Bush/Cheney implied many financial institutions were at risk instead of only 3? One of the biggest lies perpetrated to American citizens. Where did this money go? Why were some banks forced to take bail out money?
"Good Billions After Bad"?One Year After Wall Street Bailout, Pulitzer Winners Barlett and Steele Investigate Where All the Money Went


--- RECKLESS GOP Tax cuts = THE GOP ENTITLEMENT program for the wealthy which do nothing to make an economy strong or produce jobs. Tax cuts are a tax increase to others in order to make up the loss in revenue = duped again. Bush Tax Cuts aka

This GOP ENTITLEMENT program for the wealthy is at the expense of the middle class = duped one more time.
Still a Bad Idea | Dollars & Sense

 

[merrill]

Obviously the new breed of repubs are not the economic giants of our times.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If it were available it would be there. Obama’s impact on the rise of the debt, as it was not just spending, but a decline in revenue that is responsible for the sharp rise in federal budget deficits. Obama has proposed policies to help reduce the deficit and it seems strange to suggest he has done nothing about it.

Who's saying it is a problem?

The deficit is over exaggerated as a problem.

If it were available it would be there.

He made a claim with no available backup?
That's funny.
Pretty weak for a professor of economics.

YOU certainly cannot prove him wrong.

Well, if I saw his source, I'd be able to see if he was correct.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Let's educate thyselves:


--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Bailing out The Reagan/Bush Savings and Loan Heist aka home loan scandal sent the economy out the window costing taxpayers many many $$ trillions (Cost taxpayers $1.4 trillion), Plus millions of jobs, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance.
The Bush family and the S&L (Savings and Loan) Scandal

--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT Bailing out the Bush/Cheney Home Loan Wall Street Bank Fraud cost consumers $ trillions, millions of jobs, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance. Exactly like the Reagan/Bush home loan scam. Déjà vu can we say. Yep seems to be a pattern.
What is the difference between a Ponzi scheme and a housing bubble? | Dollars & Sense

--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Bush/Cheney implied many financial institutions were at risk instead of only 3? One of the biggest lies perpetrated to American citizens. Where did this money go? Why were some banks forced to take bail out money?
"Good Billions After Bad"?One Year After Wall Street Bailout, Pulitzer Winners Barlett and Steele Investigate Where All the Money Went


--- RECKLESS GOP Tax cuts = THE GOP ENTITLEMENT program for the wealthy which do nothing to make an economy strong or produce jobs. Tax cuts are a tax increase to others in order to make up the loss in revenue = duped again. Bush Tax Cuts aka

This GOP ENTITLEMENT program for the wealthy is at the expense of the middle class = duped one more time.
Still a Bad Idea | Dollars & Sense

(Cost taxpayers $1.4 trillion)

Wow, your sources are funny. Off by a factor of about 10.

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/ai96123.pdf

I wonder if the professor's sources are as "accurate" as your's?

 

[merrill]

There are several ways in which the Bush family plays into the Savings and Loan scandal, which involves not only many members of the Bush family but also many other politicians that are still in office and still part of the Bush Jr. administration today.

Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars (note that this is about one quarter of our national debt).

Between 1981 and 1989, when George Bush finally announced that there was a Savings and Loan Crisis to the world, the Reagan/Bush administration worked to cover up Savings and Loan problems by reducing the number and depth of examinations required of S&Ls as well as attacking political opponents who were sounding early alarms about the S&L industry.

Industry insiders were aware of significant S&L problems as early 1986 that they felt would require a bailout. This information was kept from the media until after Bush had won the 1988 elections.

Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.

Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There are several ways in which the Bush family plays into the Savings and Loan scandal, which involves not only many members of the Bush family but also many other politicians that are still in office and still part of the Bush Jr. administration today.

Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars (note that this is about one quarter of our national debt).

Between 1981 and 1989, when George Bush finally announced that there was a Savings and Loan Crisis to the world, the Reagan/Bush administration worked to cover up Savings and Loan problems by reducing the number and depth of examinations required of S&Ls as well as attacking political opponents who were sounding early alarms about the S&L industry.

Industry insiders were aware of significant S&L problems as early 1986 that they felt would require a bailout. This information was kept from the media until after Bush had won the 1988 elections.

Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.

Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out.

which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars

Thanks for another made-up number.
The GAO said the actual cost was about $132 billion.

 

[SFC Ollie]

big debt and super duper bailouts do not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power.

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Another 30% of the national debt had been created by the tax cuts for the wealthy under Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Fully 81% of the national debt was created by just these three Republican Presidents.
Social Security Q&A | Dollars & Sense

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

Here is something people might find interesting note the source is not FOX or any other conservative leaning group.
National Debt has increased more under Obama than under Bush - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

And that is nearly a year old, add another trillion to Obama......

 

[merrill]

There are several ways in which the Bush family plays into the Savings and Loan scandal, which involves not only many members of the Bush family but also many other politicians that are still in office and still part of the Bush Jr. administration today.

Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars (note that this is about one quarter of our national debt).

Between 1981 and 1989, when George Bush finally announced that there was a Savings and Loan Crisis to the world, the Reagan/Bush administration worked to cover up Savings and Loan problems by reducing the number and depth of examinations required of S&Ls as well as attacking political opponents who were sounding early alarms about the S&L industry.

Industry insiders were aware of significant S&L problems as early 1986 that they felt would require a bailout. This information was kept from the media until after Bush had won the 1988 elections.

Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.

Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out.

which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars

Thanks for another made-up number.
The GAO said the actual cost was about $132 billion.

That $1.4 trillion is not my number however what I have discovered as actual paid out tax dollars was around 124.6 billion dollars from several sources which was a large number in the late 80's-early 90's.

Also millions were laid off as a result of that fraudulent endeavor costing taxpayers money for unemployment,food stamps plus the cost of the investigation which would put the cost higher but at $1.4 trillion I am not so sure.

Did the government also buy up homes that were left going into foreclosures I'm not sure.

There was a ton of economic chaos during the Reagan/Bush years. The oil market went to hell creating more unemployment and foreclosures in big time oil states.

Lesson: be sure your savings are insured or lose it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There are several ways in which the Bush family plays into the Savings and Loan scandal, which involves not only many members of the Bush family but also many other politicians that are still in office and still part of the Bush Jr. administration today.

Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars (note that this is about one quarter of our national debt).

Between 1981 and 1989, when George Bush finally announced that there was a Savings and Loan Crisis to the world, the Reagan/Bush administration worked to cover up Savings and Loan problems by reducing the number and depth of examinations required of S&Ls as well as attacking political opponents who were sounding early alarms about the S&L industry.

Industry insiders were aware of significant S&L problems as early 1986 that they felt would require a bailout. This information was kept from the media until after Bush had won the 1988 elections.

Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.

Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out.

which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars

Thanks for another made-up number.
The GAO said the actual cost was about $132 billion.

That $1.4 trillion is not my number however what I have discovered as actual paid out tax dollars was around 124.6 billion dollars from several sources which was a large number in the late 80's-early 90's.

Also millions were laid off as a result of that fraudulent endeavor costing taxpayers money for unemployment,food stamps plus the cost of the investigation which would put the cost higher but at $1.4 trillion I am not so sure.

Did the government also buy up homes that were left going into foreclosures I'm not sure.

There was a ton of economic chaos during the Reagan/Bush years. The oil market went to hell creating more unemployment and foreclosures in big time oil states.

Lesson: be sure your savings are insured or lose it.

That $1.4 trillion is not my number

I know, it was a number made up by one of your sources.
A wildly inaccurate number.

 

[merrill]

Correction...

--- This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Bailing out The Reagan/Bush Savings and Loan Heist aka home loan scandal sent the economy out the window costing taxpayers 124.6 billion $$$$, in addition to millions of job losses, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance which could substantially increase the cost to taxpayers.