Deep down, we all know that peace is best

aris2chat

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Deep down, we all know that peace is best

Ray Hanania


Being Palestinian is like living on a roller coaster, a ride that has its ups and downs, its fear and its excitement. There are some days where I am angry about the violence that takes so many lives. And there are other days when I am frustrated by the lack of common sense.

Still, there are a few days when reason overcomes emotion, and deep down I know that if Israelis and Palestinians were to ever sign a peace agreement creating two-states, and then gave it a little time to heal the passions, we would be the closest of peoples.

Yes, Palestinians and Israelis would be allies in the Middle East. Everyone in the Middle East has paid a price for the endless Arab-Israeli conflict. Everyone is a victim. The only things that really separate us are politics, religion and our attitudes.

It’s not easy being human and it’s not easy as a human to turn the other cheek and ignore an insult, or forget about pride. It’s not easy to forgive an enemy, or to remember the victims of violence without also stoking the flames of vengeance with hatred.

Hate is a byproduct of mixing anger and frustration. It’s a state of mind that causes people to act against someone else. During the past few months, we’ve seen violence on both sides. Palestinians and Israelis trying to kill each other and inflict harm. Sometimes they have succeeded. Depending on where you stand, the chronology begins at your own suffering.

It’s so easy to be dragged down the road of pessimism and even anger. The haters are out there. The haters are a minority who exploit the larger community of good people who, because they are human, are overcome with anger. The haters make that anger look like hate. Extremists drown out the moderates because moderation is so less passioned while extremism is the mother of uncontrollable emotional outbursts. We all suffer from it. The good, the bad and the ugly.

And it’s hard to see through this fog of conflict, or to recognize that beyond it lies hope and survival. I don’t want to see any human being hurt. I don’t want to see human beings lose their lands or their homes or their possessions. Land is life. The conflict is both about land and about fear. We have to keep trying to make peace.

I’m moved by leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Tzipi Livni. They have it tough. Abbas reigns over a people who can never be happy with anything as long as they are Palestinians who live outside of their own sovereignty. Abbas is right when he says that the BDS movement is wrong to include Israel in its boycott activism. Boycott the settlements. That’s moral. That’s ethical. But don’t say you want peace, and speak out against Israel’s injustices, and then boycott the people you are expected to find agreement with.

Livni is also courageous. She has spoken out strongly against settlement expansion. She recently said correctly that the settlements harm Israel’s security. The settlements are populated mostly by fanatics, with a small mix of well-intentioned people who have closed their eyes to principle but deep down hope for real peace. Many Israelis hate her because she speaks the truth. Many Palestinians hate Abbas because he speaks the truth, too.

In the end the choice is very simple. Do we want to keep fighting for everything we believe in, while sustaining the suffering and the continued loss of life? Or are we willing to compromise and give up something in order to bring an end to the conflict and prevent the loss of life?

We can’t completely stop violence. There isn’t a nation in the world that has no violence. There will always be some violence between Palestinians and Israelis, and Arabs and Jews, even if peace is signed and two-states are created.

But it will be less violence. Peace will remove much of the anger, which fuels the hatred that enables the violence and the oppression. And the longer peace is sustained, the more the hatred will be reduced and the violence eliminated. That’s my wish for this secular New Year, a time that I believe is very important.

One of the most detrimental side effects of the conflict is how it has captivated the people in the West. Americans look for hope at this time of the secular New Year even though for Muslim Arabs and Jews, the secular New Year is little more than an accounting system of time. Their New Years come at different times.

But it is the people who cheer on the violence, knowingly and unknowingly, who need to be changed. And they will only change when Arabs and Jews change first. It wasn’t so long ago that Jews were being persecuted across the world, including by Americans. Less than 100 years later, the tables have turned and Jews are not suffering so much any more, but are enjoying an unprecedented political power base that sustains Israel’s existence in conflict.

But that existence is a mirage. And if the chain of hatred is not stopped, it will turn again. Things could easily be different. Who knows if Israel will continue to exist in continued conflict and violence. Anger and hatred can change things, or reason and compassion can change things for the better. Reason and compassion can help secure the future for everyone.

If Israelis were to be more reasoned, and Palestinians less angry, maybe we could see each other for who we really are, cousins with the same past and the same future. I hope that future is peace.
 

P F Tinmore

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Peace is not the absence of conflict.

It is the presence of justice.
 

abu afak

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Peace is not the absence of conflict.
It is the presence of justice.
You should at least give credit where credit is due.
AND
quote at least a whole sentence:

“Peace is not merely the absence of war but the presence of justice, of law, of order —in short, of government.”
― Albert Einstein


How long has it been since the 'palestinians' had a government?
And when did they Ever have a real one?
Of course, Not being a 'real people' doesn't help the 'real govt' issue.
`
 
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proudveteran06

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If Israelis were to be more reasoned, and Palestinians less angry, maybe we could see each other for who we really are, cousins with the same past and the same future. I hope that future is peace.[/QUOTE]


There will never be a " palestinian state" for at least two reasons;


Israeli-Palestinian peace talks: What does each side want? | GlobalPost


PALESTINIANS:
1. A halt to the construction of Israeli settlements on land beyond the 1967 borders
2. Negotiated borders based on the 1967 boundaries
3. Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Palestine
4. The release of all Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails, including those convicted of acts of terror
5. The recognition of a right of return for all Palestinians living in the diaspora


Forget " Right of Return" and the " 67 Borders" which the Arabs refused to recognize. Israel has their most religious sites in R. Jerusalem and is not going to give them away to the Arabs ( Again)



Is the Arab Peace Plan Really About Peace? « Commentary Magazine


It should be conceded that this is better than the famous “three no’s” enforced throughout the Arab world in the aftermath of the 1967 Six-Day War, when Muslim countries said they would not make peace, recognize or negotiate with Israel. But the effect is not all that different. The Arab League proposal envisions normal relations with an Israel that has been forced to retreat from all territories it won in a defensive war in 1967. But the Israel they want to make peace with is one that would be forced to accept millions of Arabs who would change it from a Jewish nation into yet another Arab one.

Ask exactly what the Palestinians are doing to forward the " negotiation process" and there will be no response
 

Mojo2

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Peace is not the absence of conflict.

It is the presence of justice.
The Israelis were able to reach peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt.

Are Palestinians less interested in peace than Egypt and Jordan?
 

P F Tinmore

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Peace is not the absence of conflict.
It is the presence of justice.
You should at least give credit where credit is due.
AND
quote at least a whole sentence:

“Peace is not merely the absence of war but the presence of justice, of law, of order —in short, of government.”
― Albert Einstein


How long has it been since the 'palestinians' had a government?
And when did they Ever have a real one?
Of course, Not being a 'real people' doesn't help the 'real govt' issue.
`
Palestine had a legitimate government until the US backed coup in June of 2007.
 

Mojo2

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Peace is not the absence of conflict.
It is the presence of justice.
You should at least give credit where credit is due.
AND
quote at least a whole sentence:

“Peace is not merely the absence of war but the presence of justice, of law, of order —in short, of government.”
― Albert Einstein


How long has it been since the 'palestinians' had a government?
And when did they Ever have a real one?
Of course, Not being a 'real people' doesn't help the 'real govt' issue.
`
Palestine had a legitimate government until the US backed coup in June of 2007.
Boo frikkin hoo.

:eusa_boohoo:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU]Palestinians Celebrating 9/11 Attack - YouTube[/ame]
 

Mojo2

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Peace is not the absence of conflict.

It is the presence of justice.
The Israelis were able to reach peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt.

Are Palestinians less interested in peace than Egypt and Jordan?
Egypt and Jordan never had to give up land in their peace agreements.
The Palestinians have a greater cause for upset because of the land Jordan denied them in the early 20th Century.

Yes?
 

P F Tinmore

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You should at least give credit where credit is due.
AND
quote at least a whole sentence:

“Peace is not merely the absence of war but the presence of justice, of law, of order —in short, of government.”
― Albert Einstein


How long has it been since the 'palestinians' had a government?
And when did they Ever have a real one?
Of course, Not being a 'real people' doesn't help the 'real govt' issue.
`
Palestine had a legitimate government until the US backed coup in June of 2007.
Boo frikkin hoo.

:eusa_boohoo:

Palestinians Celebrating 9/11 Attack - YouTube
The US is violating domestic and international law. Not that the criminal class running our government cares about such things.
 

P F Tinmore

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The Israelis were able to reach peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt.

Are Palestinians less interested in peace than Egypt and Jordan?
Egypt and Jordan never had to give up land in their peace agreements.
The Palestinians have a greater cause for upset because of the land Jordan denied them in the early 20th Century.

Yes?
Good point. Jordan was promised $3M a year for five years and the West Bank if they would not attack Israel in the upcoming war. Jordan has been the "uncle Tom" of the ME.
 

P F Tinmore

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The US is violating domestic and international law. Not that the criminal class running our government cares about such things.
Whatever are you talking about now, Tinny?
A foreign backed coup is an illegal external interference.

It is illegal for the US to support a government that came to power in a coup.
 

Kondor3

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The US is violating domestic and international law. Not that the criminal class running our government cares about such things.
Whatever are you talking about now, Tinny?
A foreign backed coup is an illegal external interference.

It is illegal for the US to support a government that came to power in a coup.
I'm pretty sure that I know where you are going with this, but, just to be clear, and for the benefit of others who may not speculate correctly about the object(s) of your allegations...

1. Who is the party that is supposed to be in power?

2. Who is the party that is actually in power?

3. What outsider(s) instigated the coup?

4. What faction are we backing?

5. Why are we backing that faction?
 

P F Tinmore

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Whatever are you talking about now, Tinny?
A foreign backed coup is an illegal external interference.

It is illegal for the US to support a government that came to power in a coup.
I'm pretty sure that I know where you are going with this, but, just to be clear, and for the benefit of others who may not speculate correctly about the object(s) of your allegations...
Where am I going with this?

1. Who is the party that is supposed to be in power?
Members of the Government
Name Office Party
Ismail Hanieh Prime Minister Hamas
Azzam al-Ahmad Deputy Prime Minister Fatah
Salam Fayyad Finance Minister Third Way
Ziad Abu Amr Foreign Affairs Minister Independent
Talab al-Qawasmi Interior Minister Independent
Nasser Eddin al-Sha'er Education Minister Hamas
Mustafa al-Barghouthi Information Palestinian National Initiative
Bassam al-Salhi Culture Palestinian People's Party
Radwan al-Akhras Health Fatah
Sa'di al-Krunz Transport Fatah
Mahmoud Aloul Labour Fatah
Saleh Zeidan Social Affairs Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
Taysir Abu Sneineh Prisoners' Affairs Fatah
Samir Abu Eisheh Planning Hamas
Mohammed al-Barghouthi Local Government Hamas
Ziad al-Thatha Economic Affairs Hamas
Basem Naim Youth and Sports Hamas
Yousef al-Mansi Telecommunications and Information Technology Hamas
Mohammed al-Agha Agriculture Hamas
Khouloud D'eibes Tourism Independent
Samih al-Abed Public Works Fatah
Ali al-Sartawi Justice Hamas
Hussein Tartouri Waqf and Religious Affairs Hamas
Amal Syam Woman Affairs Hamas
Wasfi Kabha State Hamas

Palestinian March 2007 National Unity Government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. Who is the party that is actually in power?
The part of the unity government that is in Gaza.

The coup government in the West Bank. This government has no elective or constitutional legitimacy.

3. What outsider(s) instigated the coup?
The US with help from others.

4. What faction are we backing?
The coup government.

5. Why are we backing that faction?
It was our coup.
 

Billo_Really

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Deep down, we all know that peace is best

Ray Hanania

Being Palestinian is like living on a roller coaster, a ride that has its ups and downs, its fear and its excitement. There are some days where I am angry about the violence that takes so many lives. And there are other days when I am frustrated by the lack of common sense.

Still, there are a few days when reason overcomes emotion, and deep down I know that if Israelis and Palestinians were to ever sign a peace agreement creating two-states, and then gave it a little time to heal the passions, we would be the closest of peoples.

Yes, Palestinians and Israelis would be allies in the Middle East. Everyone in the Middle East has paid a price for the endless Arab-Israeli conflict. Everyone is a victim. The only things that really separate us are politics, religion and our attitudes.

It’s not easy being human and it’s not easy as a human to turn the other cheek and ignore an insult, or forget about pride. It’s not easy to forgive an enemy, or to remember the victims of violence without also stoking the flames of vengeance with hatred.
I agree with this part.

Hate is a byproduct of mixing anger and frustration. It’s a state of mind that causes people to act against someone else. During the past few months, we’ve seen violence on both sides. Palestinians and Israelis trying to kill each other and inflict harm. Sometimes they have succeeded. Depending on where you stand, the chronology begins at your own suffering.
In the generic sense, this is true. However, within the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the violence and suffering by each side, is not equal. It's not even close. One side has committed 100 times the violence and caused 100 times the suffering for the other side. So lets keep things in perspective.

It’s so easy to be dragged down the road of pessimism and even anger. The haters are out there. The haters are a minority who exploit the larger community of good people who, because they are human, are overcome with anger. The haters make that anger look like hate. Extremists drown out the moderates because moderation is so less passioned while extremism is the mother of uncontrollable emotional outbursts. We all suffer from it. The good, the bad and the ugly.
I agree with this.

And it’s hard to see through this fog of conflict, or to recognize that beyond it lies hope and survival. I don’t want to see any human being hurt. I don’t want to see human beings lose their lands or their homes or their possessions. Land is life. The conflict is both about land and about fear.
This is correct and could not be stated more.

The conflict is about "land and fear"; it is not about Judaism and Islam.

We have to keep trying to make peace.
That requires people to do something their not willing to do, which is look at themselves personally and see what their role has been in helping to create the conflict.

"What have I done wrong?"
"How have I contributed to the hatred?"
"What role have I played in all of this?"​
Many people aren't willing to do that. For me personally, this conflict doesn't affect my daily life in any way. I'm not a jew and I'm not muslim. I'm a white, Irish Catholic living in Southern California and yet, I have to admit my own role in this conflict, whether I like it or not.

That's the first step all of us have to take. To stop lying to ourselves. Until you can do that, we cannot proceed to the next step.

I’m moved by leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Tzipi Livni. They have it tough. Abbas reigns over a people who can never be happy with anything as long as they are Palestinians who live outside of their own sovereignty.
That is true. Except the big problem with Abbas and the Palestinian's, is they view him as a corrupt politician and an Israeli puppet who does not have the Pals best interests in mind.

Abbas is right when he says that the BDS movement is wrong to include Israel in its boycott activism.
See what I mean? He doesn't have the Palestinian's best interests in mind.

Abbas is wrong to say that. One of the big problems in this conflict is people unwilling to hold Israel accountable for the crimes it has committed. The BDS movement is holding them accountable.

Boycott the settlements. That’s moral. That’s ethical. But don’t say you want peace, and speak out against Israel’s injustices, and then boycott the people you are expected to find agreement with.
Now that's bullshit! If someone robs a bank, you do not cut deals with the bank robbers that allow them to keep some of the loot. If they break the law (or commit an injustice), you bring them to justice and hold them accountable for their crimes. That's exactly what happened to the ones who started WWII with the following Nuremburg trials.

Livni is also courageous. She has spoken out strongly against settlement expansion. She recently said correctly that the settlements harm Israel’s security. The settlements are populated mostly by fanatics, with a small mix of well-intentioned people who have closed their eyes to principle but deep down hope for real peace. Many Israelis hate her because she speaks the truth. Many Palestinians hate Abbas because he speaks the truth, too.
Palestinian's hate Abbas for the reasons I mentioned above. That's why they voted for Hamas. Because they believe Hamas will look out for their interests more than Abbas.

In the end the choice is very simple. Do we want to keep fighting for everything we believe in, while sustaining the suffering and the continued loss of life? Or are we willing to compromise and give up something in order to bring an end to the conflict and prevent the loss of life?
Or how about just obeying the damn law? The United Nations Charter was created as a mechanism for people to settle their differences peacefully and without conflict. By honoring its Charter, peace can be attained. But by showing nothing but contempt and disdain for that Charter, peace will not happen.

We can’t completely stop violence. There isn’t a nation in the world that has no violence. There will always be some violence between Palestinians and Israelis, and Arabs and Jews, even if peace is signed and two-states are created.
That will happen when people have their "Eisenhower moment". Just like average Germans refusing to believe the Holocaust, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead and it became impossible to deny it any longer. In this case, it will happen when people stop accepting the violence and start rejecting it.

But it will be less violence. Peace will remove much of the anger, which fuels the hatred that enables the violence and the oppression. And the longer peace is sustained, the more the hatred will be reduced and the violence eliminated. That’s my wish for this secular New Year, a time that I believe is very important.
Well, I hope you get your wish.

It's a good wish!

One of the most detrimental side effects of the conflict is how it has captivated the people in the West. Americans look for hope at this time of the secular New Year even though for Muslim Arabs and Jews, the secular New Year is little more than an accounting system of time. Their New Years come at different times.
It's captivated me because I think far too many people in my country kiss a little too much Israeli ass.

But it is the people who cheer on the violence, knowingly and unknowingly, who need to be changed. And they will only change when Arabs and Jews change first. It wasn’t so long ago that Jews were being persecuted across the world, including by Americans. Less than 100 years later, the tables have turned and Jews are not suffering so much any more, but are enjoying an unprecedented political power base that sustains Israel’s existence in conflict.
Change only comes from within. The only one you can change, is yourself. That's where the focus must be. Always blaming the other guy, won't get it done. Like I said above, you have to look at your own role in all of this.

But that existence is a mirage. And if the chain of hatred is not stopped, it will turn again. Things could easily be different. Who knows if Israel will continue to exist in continued conflict and violence.
Oh c'mon! Israel is the big dog on the block. There isn't a single country in the ME that can whip their ass. The last time someone tried, they got their ass kicked in less than a week. And nothing has changed since. Israel exists and they're not going anywhere. Unless we give them Wisconsin (the Mormons already took Utah).

Anger and hatred can change things, or reason and compassion can change things for the better. Reason and compassion can help secure the future for everyone.
I agree with this.

If Israelis were to be more reasoned, and Palestinians less angry, maybe we could see each other for who we really are, cousins with the same past and the same future. I hope that future is peace.
The Palestinian's are angry, because Israel is not reasonable.
 
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Kondor3

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"...
4. What faction are we backing?
The coup government.
5. Why are we backing that faction?
It was our coup.
Thanks, Tinny, that was about where I expected you were going (supporting Fatah in the West Bank rather than Hamas in Gaza).

You got 4-out-of-5 for that.

The only thing still left undone is the answer to (5).

Your first attempt at such reiterates who engineered the coup.

What it does not tell us is WHY we support that (the coup) faction (Fatah).

WHY are we supporting Fatah rather than Hamas?
 

Phoenall

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Peace would be good, wouldn't it?


It would certainly reduce the cost of healthcare for everyone in the world, but would cause a stagnation in medical breakthroughs
 

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