Debunking the WTC 9/11 Molten Steel Argument

[Bern80]

I think most people know that. But there's a group that seems to think otherwise, so looks for every little scrap of information (or lack of information) to support their fantasy. Part of the problem, and part of what feeds them, though, is that the investigation after really was pathetic.

I would agree. There was nothing to cover up to the extent that eots and Lookout are referring, but information was most likely covered up anyway because someone in their infinite wisdom thought there were things we just don't need to know. This of course would give the impression that something more nefarious then what actually happened took place.

 

[Paulie]

I would agree. There was nothing to cover up to the extent that eots and Lookout are referring, but information was most likely covered up anyway because someone in their infinite wisdom thought there were things we just don't need to know. This of course would give the impression that something more nefarious then what actually happened took place.

Is there any excuse for not THOROUGHLY investigating to the highest extent of the law, the biggest crime against America in HISTORY?

That they only spent a fraction of the amount of money investigating 9/11, as was used to investigate Clinton, is an outrage.

We as American citizens deserve the most complete, inclusive investigation into 9/11, and we deserve to know every detail afterwards. This is OUR country, not the government's.

How can you blame ANYONE for questioning 9/11? Not only is it our right as American citizens to question our government, it's our duty. But we don't do those kinds of things anymore. We would rather leave it to the government to figure it out and fix it FOR us, while we emerse ourselves in our entertainment world. We'll stick a flag outside our house and put a yellow ribbon on our car, that will take care of everything.

Meanwhile, we'll sit back and reflect and cry about 9/11 and how horrible it was, and let our own emotions over the event keep us from fulfilling what our actual DUTY should be after such an event.

There are unanswered questions concerning 9/11. That is a fact. Why people actually FROWN upon asking those questions is beyond me.

 

[Steerpike]

There is a lot of demolition and detailed preparation that occurs prior to even a controlled demolition of the kind you see on the TV. It's not something that could be done out of sight of the people within the building. It's a crazy notion.

The vast majority of people understand that the idea is crazy, and that its been thoroughly debunked. You're never going to satisfy those who insist on a conspiracy in this, because they aren't looking at things from a reasonable point of view and every explanation that runs counter to the conspiracy is either disregarded entirely or becomes part of the conspiracy. But I don't think you have to worry about many people buying into it.

 

[Steerpike]

How can you blame ANYONE for questioning 9/11?

It has nothing to do with simple questioning, it has to do with pushing a conspiracy agenda. The answers regarding the collapse of the towers and the idea of "controlled demolition" are there for anyone who wants to see them. You can only sustain the conspiracy theory by completely ignoring them.

It is the duty of every American to ask questions about 9/11, but it is blatantly irresponsible to ignore the answer to those questions in order to perpetuate some far-out conspiracy theory that can't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[eots]

it is a complete falsehood that any answers or debunking of theory's has occurred you make this statement but back it up with nothing..by whom have these questions been answered certainly not the 911 commission or nist who have denounced there own investigations...so what we are left with is popular mechanics vs the patriots question 911..it is you who ignores the facts

Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: http://www.pogo.org/


"[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. …

Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. …

The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ...

The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. ...

We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand. We stand ready to do our part." http://www.pogo.org/


Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CAA.


John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.18-year FBI career.


Mark Conrad, JD – Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations. Former Federal Sky Marshall. 27-year U.S. Customs career. Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents. Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Troy University.


Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.


Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. (See also individual statement above.)


Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI. (See also individual statement above.)


Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA. Retired Navy SEAL. (See also individual statement above.)


David Forbes – Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard. Over 30 years experience in law enforcement, commercial and industrial security-related risk management, and service sector business management. Currently Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analyst, BoydForbes, Inc.


Melvin A. Goodman – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976. Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004. Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations. (See also individual statement above.)


Mark Graf – Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy. Former Chairman of the Rocky Flats (DOE) Physical Security Systems Working Group from 1990 through 1995.


Gilbert M. Graham – Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


Diane Kleiman – Former Special Agent, US Customs.


Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran. (See also individual statement above.)


Lynne A. Larkin – Former CIA Operations Officer. Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.


David MacMichael, PhD – Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.


Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. (See also individual statement above.)


Theodore J. Pahle – Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency. His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence. He is a Middle East and Latin American operations specialist. Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as a contract instructor.


Behrooz Sarshar – Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.


Brian F. Sullivan – Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA. Retired Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police.


Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) – Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics – Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. 24-year Navy career in the fields of aviation and counterterrorism. Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and counterterrorism.


Jane A. Turner – Retired Special Agent, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


John B. Vincent – Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. 27-year FBI career.


Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD – Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.


Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves. She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia. She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan. She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001. One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003. (See also individual statement above.)


Matthew J. Zipoli – Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE. Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory


http://patriotsquestion911.com/

 

[Paulie]

It has nothing to do with simple questioning, it has to do with pushing a conspiracy agenda. The answers regarding the collapse of the towers and the idea of "controlled demolition" are there for anyone who wants to see them. You can only sustain the conspiracy theory by completely ignoring them.

It is the duty of every American to ask questions about 9/11, but it is blatantly irresponsible to ignore the answer to those questions in order to perpetuate some far-out conspiracy theory that can't stand up to scrutiny.

I have other bigger questions regarding 9/11 than how the towers collapsed. That debate is distracting, divisive, and endless.

For example, I'd love to have the government explain to me how a man who, according to the flight school instructor could not even control a cessna, could have possibly pulled off the maneuvers and virtually laser-tight accuracy in the plane that hit the pentagon. To this day, I'm still baffled about that.

 

[cbi0090]

I think a big part of the problem is that when dealing with media pundits, who have the attention span of a commercial, after any disaster or big event those who know they will have to answer aren't ever given the time to determine the real facts. They feel forced to answer with something because if they don't they know the media will just go into high gear with crazy ideas of their own and/or accusations of a coverup. There doesn't seem to be any patience anymore. People "have" to have the answers immediately before their ADD kicks in or their distracted by Paris Hilton dropping her pants or something. So many times I've seen the truth finally reveal itself about an issue only to be received by a thinned out, uninterested audience because it's become old news. The 911 Commission report is an example. So many details were still being researched that no one should have made any conclusions.

 

[eots]

I think a big part of the problem is that when dealing with media pundits, who have the attention span of a commercial, after any disaster or big event those who know they will have to answer aren't ever given the time to determine the real facts. They feel forced to answer with something because if they don't they know the media will just go into high gear with crazy ideas of their own and/or accusations of a coverup. There doesn't seem to be any patience anymore. People "have" to have the answers immediately before their ADD kicks in or their distracted by Paris Hilton dropping her pants or something. So many times I've seen the truth finally reveal itself about an issue only to be received by a thinned out, uninterested audience because it's become old news. The 911 Commission report is an example. So many details were still being researched that no one should have made any conclusions.

why do you pretend to have any knowledge of the 911 commission report when by your statements it is abundantly clear you know nothing of the report or its proceedings

 

[cbi0090]

why do you pretend to have any knowledge of the 911 commission report when by your statements it is abundantly clear you know nothing of the report or its proceedings

How can you make a statement like that based on what I wrote. I've been involved in studies and research and to do it well, takes time, often years, and it's wrong to think it can be shortened by throwing bodies at them. I was shocked that any attempt to make conclusions about the event was being done in so short a time, but not surprised. Same ole, same ole. And we all wonder why Americans are so uninformed.

 

[eots]

]I think a big part of the problem is that when dealing with media pundits, who have the attention span of a commercial, after any disaster or big event those who know they will have to answer aren't ever given the time to determine the real facts. They feel forced to answer with something because if they don't they know the media will just go into high gear with crazy ideas of their own and/or accusations of a coverup. There doesn't seem to be any patience anymore. People "have" to have the answers immediately before their ADD kicks in or their distracted by Paris Hilton dropping her pants or something.

well first off this part couldn't be less accurate the controlled media has towed the party line on the issue of 911 and made ever attempt to cover up or stifle the truth

So many times I've seen the truth finally reveal itself about an issue only to be received by a thinned out, uninterested audience because it's become old news. The 911 Commission report is an example. So many details were still being researched that no one should have made any conclusions.[/

QUOTE]

the 911 report was concluded long ago there is no more investigation and the report issued years ago is now widely denounced as a completely inadequate
at best by some involved and a criminal cover up by others and this includes many 911 commission members and 911 commission wittinesses

there is a on going in fact never ending nist report this is the latest on that


James Quintiere, Ph.D., former Chief of the Fire Science Division of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), has called for an independent review of NIST’s investigation into the collapses of the World Trade Center Towers on 9/11.



Dr. Quintiere made his plea during his presentation, “Questions on the WTC Investigations” at the 2007 World Fire Safety Conference. “I wish that there would be a peer review of this,” he said, referring to the NIST investigation. “I think all the records that NIST has assembled should be archived. I would really like to see someone else take a look at what they’ve done; both structurally and from a fire point of view.”

“I think the official conclusion that NIST arrived at is questionable,” explained Dr. Quintiere. “Let's look at real alternatives that might have been the cause of the collapse of the World Trade Towers and how that relates to the official cause and what's the significance of one cause versus another.”

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_070820_former_chief_of_nist.htm


Aug. 27, 2007 - National Academy of Sciences Member Calls for New 9/11 Investigation featured the statement of Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., world renowned scientist.


July 16, 2007 - Former California Seismic Safety Commissioner Endorses 9/11 Truth Movement featured the statement of J. Marx Ayres, former member of the National Institute of Sciences Building Safety Council and former member of the California Seismic Safety Commission.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7802



Dec. 13, 2007 - Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation - Official Account of 9/11: “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Fatally Flawed” featured statements by:


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 250 Architects and Engineers:

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7



Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology

David Griscom, PhD, Retired Research Physicist. Served 33 years at the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, D.C.

[ B]Joel Hirschhorn, PhD,[/B] Former Senior Staff Member, Congressional Office of Technology Assessment. Former Director of Environment, Energy and Natural Resources for the National Governors Association

Enver Masud, MS, PE, Former Chief of the Strategic and Emergency Planning Branch, U.S. Department of Energy

James Quintiere, PhD, Former Chief of the Fire Science Division of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)


Dwain Deets, MS, Former Director, Aerospace Projects at NASA’s Dryden Flight Research Center

Edward S. Munyak, MS, PE, Former Fire Protection Engineer for the U.S. Departments of Energy, Defense, and Veterans Affairs. Contributing Subject Matter Expert to the U.S. Department of Energy Fire Protection Engineering Functional Area Qualification Standard for Nuclear Facilities
Dec. 4, 2007 - Eight Senior Republican Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 - “Not Possible”, “a Whitewash”, “False” featured statements by

Paul Craig Roberts, PhD, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Ronald Reagan

Catherine Austin Fitts, Assistant Secretary of Housing under President George H.W. Bush

Morgan Reynolds, PhD, Chief Economist of the U.S. Department of Labor under current President George W. Bush

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret), Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan

Mary Schiavo, JD, Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Transportation under Presidents George H.W. Bush and William Clinton

Barbara Honegger, Special Assistant to the Chief Domestic Policy Adviser to President Ronald Reagan and White House Policy Analyst

Edward Peck, Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under President Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the U.S. State Department. Former U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission in Iraq

Morton Goulder, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter

 

[cbi0090]

I saw one PE in your list and he's a power engineer, not even closely related to the structural discipline. Your fire guy is a forensic expert. They only trace down source and origin. As for former this and that, you can get anyone to say anything for attention or money, because there's no reprecussion in doing so - it's just opinion. I have one down here in Florida that drives us all nuts because the media sets on his door step just waiting for the next crazy thing to come out of his mouth so they can print it and get everyone stirred up. He's retired and has nothing else to do so he just does it for the attention. I can't tell you how many calls I've gotten related to some wacked out story he starts telling and the media doesn't want the truth because it's not exciting and doesn't sell.

I also don't understand what they are saying about wanting an impartial investigation. There have been engineers from every corner of the world looking at this. There are no secrets to hide anyone can get the information most just don't know what to ask for or how to ask.

Tell you what, next time you learn of a controlled demolition that's going to take place nearby, call the contractor/ engineer who's in charge and ask for a tour of the facility prior to him setting his charges (you won't get in once their set). Tell him you just want to see the preparations required. Afterward just try and imagine someone setting up the same thing in the WTC without anyone seeing it and you'll understand what I'm talking about!

But it you don't let me put it another way.

Controlled demolitions are not set to blow up a building. The reason so much preparation is needed is because all of the primary supporting members have to be "reduced" to their bare minimum capacity. Once that is done the charges are set to tip them past that point to failure. For example, a column is reduced by removing cross section. In the case of steel this means torching out large chunks of the steel members. All covering material, such as wall board, fire insulation, etc. must also be removed to do this work. To do this on every floor in the WTC would more more than a little noticeable.

To blow up an intact steel column, expecially one the size of those in the WTC, would have taken a huge amount of explosives. They'd have been picking up pieces in New Hampshire. The idea of someone secretly doing a controlled demolition, as I said before, is beyond fantasy.

 

[eots]

I saw one PE in your list and he's a power engineer, not even closely related to the structural discipline. Your fire guy is a forensic expert. They only trace down source and origin. As for former this and that, you can get anyone to say anything for attention or money, because there's no reprecussion in doing so - it's just opinion.

the people listed are the very top of the Fields of discipline including nist and the 911 commission no moneys are made by these individuals trough this in fact quite to opposite the are mainly retired because that frees the legally to speak...and it is not the former this and that it is the former head of the nuclear program of NASA programs CIA and FBI counter intelligence so why would you characterize the so lightly or pretend that they don't posses a great understanding os structures and physics..well beyond popular mechanics who deed in deed profit from there story

I have one down here in Florida that drives us all nuts because the media sets on his door step just waiting for the next crazy thing to come out of his mouth so they can print it and get everyone stirred up. He's retired and has nothing else to do so he just does it for the attention. I can't tell you how many calls I've gotten related to some wacked out story he starts telling and the media doesn't want the truth because it's not exciting and doesn't sell.

i am not intrested in your antidole storys...these patriots are not paid and have been blacklisted from the mainstream media the only interveiws they have given are in independent films distributed for free on google video

I also don't understand what they are saying about wanting an impartial investigation. There have been engineers from every corner of the world looking at this. There are no secrets to hide anyone can get the information most just don't know what to ask for or how to ask

.

you simply made this statement up..you have no idea who is investigating 911 and you have no idea about the witheld evidence or the on going law suites to have it released ..so why do you pretend you do ?

Tell you what, next time you learn of a controlled demolition that's going to take place nearby, call the contractor/ engineer who's in charge and ask for a tour of the facility prior to him setting his charges (you won't get in once their set). Tell him you just want to see the preparations required. Afterward just try and imagine someone setting up the same thing in the WTC without anyone seeing it and you'll understand what I'm talking about!

But it you don't let me put it another way.

Controlled demolitions are not set to blow up a building. The reason so much preparation is needed is because all of the primary supporting members have to be "reduced" to their bare minimum capacity. Once that is done the charges are set to tip them past that point to failure. For example, a column is reduced by removing cross section. In the case of steel this means torching out large chunks of the steel members. All covering material, such as wall board, fire insulation, etc. must also be removed to do this work. To do this on every floor in the WTC would more more than a little noticeable.

To blow up an intact steel column, expecially one the size of those in the WTC, would have taken a huge amount of explosives. They'd have been picking up pieces in New Hampshire. The idea of someone secretly doing a controlled demolition, as I said before, is beyond fantasy. :cuckoo

:

and you really think these men just never thought of that ...just you and your vast expertise........
U.S. GOVERNMENT SCIENTISTS AND RESEARCHERS


avid L. Griscom, PhD

David L. Griscom, PhD – Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service. Fellow of the American Physical Society. Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997). Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003). Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005). Winner of the 1993 N.F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers. Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988.
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True: This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives. [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories, and was not hit by an airplane. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics.

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215).

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."


Bio: http://www.impactglassresearchinternational.com/index.html







Dwain Deets, MS Eng

Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng – Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center. Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden. Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988). Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986). Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000. Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers. Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology. 37 year NASA career.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]." http://www.ae911truth.org


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 250 Architects and Engineers:

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." http://www.ae911truth.org/joinus.php


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.


Bio: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov









Lon J. Waters, PhD
No photo available

Lon J. Waters, PhD Mathematics – Former staff member of the Maui High Performance Computing Center, a U.S. Department of Defense funded high performance computing and research facility. Former staff member of Sandia National Laboratories, a major research facility of the National Nuclear Security Administration, U.S. Department of Energy. Member Advisory Editorial Board, Journal of 9/11 Studies.

Signatory of Petition of Solidarity to the Attorney General of New York for a new independent grand jury investigation of 9/11 11/19/04: "We the undersigned: a) think that there is ample evidence and probable cause to believe that many grave and still unresolved crimes were committed by US officials prior to, during and after the events of 9/11; b) observe that most of these apparent crimes, including but not limited to abetment of mass murder, criminal negligence, insider trading, and obstruction of justice fall well within the jurisdiction of New York's top law enforcement officials ..." http://www.justicefor911.org


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 250 Architects and Engineers:

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." http://www.ae911truth.org/joinus.php


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."

U.S. INTELLIGENCE SERVICES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT






Raymond L. McGovern

Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.

Video 7/22/06: "I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What’s being covered up? Is it gross malfeasance, gross negligence, misfeasance? … Now there are a whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re unanswered is because this administration will not answer the questions. … I just want to reassert, what Scott [Ritter, former Major in the U.S. Marines Corps, former Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq] said and this is the bottom line for me, just as Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in exploiting 9/11. The cynical way in which he played on our trauma, used it to justify attacking, making a war of aggression on a country that he knew had nothing to do with 9/11. That suffices for me, I think Scott is exactly right, that’s certainly an impeachable offense." http://video.google


Endorsement of 9/11 and American Empire (Vol I) – Intellectuals Speak Out: "It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs. But the present volume confronts us with compelling evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited. If this is true, it is not merely the case, as the Downing Street memos show, that the stated reason for attacking Iraq was a lie. It is also the case that the whole 'war on terror' was based on a prior deception." http://www.interlinkbooks.com


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article



Bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_mcgovern







William Christison

William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.

Endorsement of Debunking 9/11 Debunking 3/30/07: "David Ray Griffin’s Debunking 9/11 Debunking is a superb compendium of the strong body of evidence showing the official U.S. Government story of what happened on September 11, 2001 to be almost certainly a monstrous series of lies. Tragically, the entire course of U.S. foreign and domestic policies since that date has grown out of these almost certain falsehoods. This single book could (and should) provide the basis for the United Nations‚ International Court of Justice, or some specially constituted global body (independent of the U.S.) to investigate with highest priority, and publicly report its findings about, the charge that unknown elements within the U.S. Government, and possibly some individuals elsewhere closely allied to the U.S., caused or contributed to causing the events of September 11 to happen." http://www.amazon.com?tag=usmb-20


Essay Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11 8/14/06: "I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. … An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. … The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them." http://www.dissidentvoice.org


Article 9/7/06: "David Griffin believes this all was totally an inside job - I've got to say I think that it was too. … I have since decided that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen or at least allowing it to happen. … The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than just being hit by two airplanes. … All of the characteristics of these demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled explosions." http://www.prisonplanet.com


Member: Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven Association Statement: "We have found solid scientific grounds on which to question the interpretation put upon the events of September 11, 2001 by the Office of the President of the United States of America and subsequently propagated by the major media of western nations."


Audio interview 9/29/06: "We very seriously need an entirely new very high level and truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11. I think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke and not a serious piece of analysis at all. It gave the administration what it wanted to support their official story on what happened on the date of September 11 and that's all they cared about. ... It's a monstrous crime. Absolutely a monstrous crime." http://www.electricpolitics.com


Bio: http://www.amalpress.com/

 

[cbi0090]

This is pointless discussion. You obviously don't want to entertain any idea that doesn't conform to your own demented notions. I've given you several sources to look into about what is really happening and it doesn't take a genius to see that your experts are all hacks. I've seen resumes like theirs for years. Remember, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[eots]

This is pointless discussion. You obviously don't want to entertain any idea that doesn't conform to your own demented notions. I've given you several sources to look into about what is really happening and it doesn't take a genius to see that your experts are all hacks. I've seen resumes like theirs for years. Remember, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

you give me popular mechanics you moron.. and you call these men hacks ? and back that up with what? their level of expertise? their years of outstanding service ? there medals and awards ? you are right, you are pointless..pathetic ..you make me sick

 

[cbi0090]

you give me popular mechanics you moron.. and you call these men hacks ? and back that up with what? their level of expertise? their years of outstanding service ? there medals and awards ? you are right, you are pointless..pathetic ..you make me sick

Look, you don't want to look into the publications I listed for you, publications written by engineers for engineers. They are hardly popular mechanics. You want to speak engineering go right ahead, I've been a structural engineer for 35 years I think I can carry on a discussion with just about anyone regarding the subject.

Let me let you in on a secret. There are people who make a living off of being "experts". Legally it's defined as being someone who knows a bit more than a layman. Being the type of nation we are, with everyone looking for a big break from a law suit, it's a big business. Because there is a thriving industry for these people there are also multitudes of awards, certifications, events, etc. (at a price) available to them to prop up their resumes, just as there are a wide variety of publications begging for papers and articles from "experts" of all kinds.

Another tactic is to become committee members for various government studies. Most studies of that kind care long lists of people who were all supposed to be "involved". In reality though most act as proctors or reviewers, which means they get an opportunity to read the study first and make comments or not. It's not hard to do, you just hang out at the right conferences or with the right people and your in. Easy way to impressively fill in space on a resume.

I'm quite certain many of them "volunteered" to get their names attached to something (anything) as high profile as the collapse of the towers. With that line on their resume they could jack up their rates easily. Of course, the media loves them because, now and then, they actually come up with a novel notion or two that makes for wonderful, exciting and saleable news.

My expertise is bridges. It's not my career or job. It's a reputation that has come about do to my work. There is a big difference. Because of it, I have been involved in many trial cases involving collapses. I've had to deal directly, mostly head to head, with these types of "experts". From the outside (your perspective), their resumes look quite impressive but they are built on a house of cards when you read between the lines.

These people do more damage than good, most of the time, and charge high fees for it. If I sound a bit bitter about them, I am, because I've seen many cases where their clients, who deserved a decent settlement, were misled by these people into arguing completely undefensable claims causing them to get nothing and they still demanded payment for their time. Unless, you've been involved in this kind thing, and I doubt have, I wouldn't expect you to know this. But you are doing the same thing these "experts" are doing.

Reading about it does not make you an expert. Doing it does. If you are so passionate about the subject, become an engineer or an attorney to gain the real understanding that you need. You do owe it to yourself and others to keep an open mind and, for God sake, know when to listen.

 

[onedomino]

you give me popular mechanics you moron.. and you call these men hacks ? and back that up with what? their level of expertise? their years of outstanding service ? there medals and awards ? you are right, you are pointless..pathetic ..you make me sick

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[eots]

Look, you don't want to look into the publications I listed for you, publications written by engineers for engineers. They are hardly popular mechanics. You want to speak engineering go right ahead, I've been a structural engineer for 35 years I think I can carry on a discussion with just about anyone regarding the subject.

i read your white paper there was very limited credentials listed and it was a basic re write of the popular mechanics article

Let me let you in on a secret. There are people who make a living off of being "experts". Legally it's defined as being someone who knows a bit more than a layman. Being the type of nation we are, with everyone looking for a big break from a law suit, it's a big business. Because there is a thriving industry for these people there are also multitudes of awards, certifications, events, etc. (at a price) available to them to prop up their resumes, just as there are a wide variety of publications begging for papers and articles from "experts" of all kinds.

very few of the patriots receive any kind of money from any of this and are essentially blacklisted from main stream media..and the ones that appear in independent film received no compensation and their films are distributed on Google video with permission for anyone to make copies..so you talking out your ass

Another tactic is to become committee members for various government studies. Most studies of that kind care long lists of people who were all supposed to be "involved". In reality though most act as proctors or reviewers, which means they get an opportunity to read the study first and make comments or not. It's not hard to do, you just hang out at the right conferences or with the right people and your in. Easy way to impressively fill in space on a resume.

gentlemen with careers as distinguished as these don't need to ad to their resume

I'm quite certain many of them "volunteered" to get their names attached to something (anything) as high profile as the collapse of the towers. With that line on their resume they could jack up their rates easily. Of course, the media loves them because, now and then, they actually come up with a novel notion or two that makes for wonderful, exciting and saleable news.

again they are blacklisted from any mention in mainstream media and their names have been attached to NASA space programs top gun flight instructors CIA, FBI. and counter terrorism directors and Their statements are hardly a good career move..your just full of stupid antidotes opinions



My expertise is bridges. It's not my career or job. It's a reputation that has come about do to my work. There is a big difference. Because of it, I have been involved in many trial cases involving collapses. I've had to deal directly, mostly head to head, with these types of "experts". From the outside (your perspective), their resumes look quite impressive but they are built on a house of cards when you read between the lines.

so our space programs , our nuclear programs our honored top gun fighter pilots..are houses of cards and you have have gone head to head with there kind ...ya right

These people do more damage than good, most of the time, and charge high fees for it. If I sound a bit bitter about them, I am, because I've seen many cases where their clients, who deserved a decent settlement, were misled by these people into arguing completely undefensable claims causing them to get nothing and they still demanded payment for their time. Unless, you've been involved in this kind thing, and I doubt have, I wouldn't expect you to know this. But you are doing the same thing these "experts" are doing.

there are no fees.. your making up little stories there is no science to anything you have said

Reading about it does not make you an expert. Doing it does. If you are so passionate about the subject, become an engineer or an attorney to gain the real understanding that you need. You do owe it to yourself and others to keep an open mind and, for God sake, know when to listen.[/

QUOTE]

i this is a crime and I do have some expetise in crime investigation, I have kept a open mind ,I have examined the whole of the evidence and the official story is a lie and a cover up.. so mister bridge guy how does a building fall a free fall speed ?: where is the resistance of all the mass it had to fall through ?

 

[eots]

Relax, eots. Here's something that will help:

you are the one that's been mind controlled and it was like taking candy from a baby

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Whwn an object weighing enough crashing into something below it and carries it with it, it won't slow down enough to notice.

Again for the ignorant. In order to have cut the support pillars even with explosives it would have required extensive construction. It could not have been missed and the building could not have been safely used by large numbers of people after the supports were prepared.

Further it would require that several levels be so destroyed. NOT just the basement.

It would have require a lot of explosives all tied together in an intricate web of wires and controls. It would have required skilled people to rigged and would have required a LONG time to set up.

Your whole claim falls apart because of these simple facts. Then we get to add your delusional stories on the Pentagon, two mutually exclusive stories. One that no plane debris existed and the other that there was LOTS of debris, including part of the fuselage but all painted the wrong color and from the wrong airline and airframe. Add in your claim no plane crashed in Pennsylvania OR that it was alternately shot down by the Air Force, again mutually exclusive.

You haven't got an open mind, it is so polluted by your delusional paranoia as to be useless.

 

[Truthmatters]

This admin is so corrupt that many Americans will not trust any investigation by anyone while they are in power.

They have proven over and over that they will politicize and and all entities they have any control over. I dont care who studies it and tells me everything is hunky dory. I will wait for the distance of time on this one.

BTW Where is the NIST's study on the collapse of building 7 they promised?