Debt is Pushing the US Into Fascism

[Andylusion]

He built the company.
When he took it public, he kept a chunk of those shares.

He didn't build Amazon without the taxpayer created Internet.
He didn't build anything without exploiting thousands of workers and the US legal system's politically constructed laws and institutions which favor parasites in high places.

How much did Wall Street parasites make from his IPO?

Tax payers did not create the internet.

The internet would have existed, without so much as a penny of government money. There is way too much mythologizing about that.

Beside... even if.... and it's not true, but let's say IF you assumed that tax payers created the internet....

He still created a company, and built it.

HE did that. Not you. Not me. He did. Not government. He did.

Can we say that your home, is really owned by society? Granted I never spent a single penny building your home. And neither did government likely....

But! Without the roads to bring the lumber in to build your house that you live it, it would not have been built!

So... I think we should be able to confiscate your house from you.

Seems logical... if you a moron.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

He built the company.
When he took it public, he kept a chunk of those shares.

He didn't build Amazon without the taxpayer created Internet.
He didn't build anything without exploiting thousands of workers and the US legal system's politically constructed laws and institutions which favor parasites in high places.

How much did Wall Street parasites make from his IPO?

He didn't build Amazon without the taxpayer created Internet.

Ok. And?

He didn't build anything without exploiting thousands of workers

Workers who freely worked for him and were free to leave at any time. And?

and the US legal system's politically constructed laws and institutions which favor parasites in high places.

Thank goodness you were perfect. A perfect failure, apparently.

How much did Wall Street parasites make from his IPO?

More than you. LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

ry that argument in court, loser.

Move to Russia, Rube
View attachment 389539
You're finished here.

Why would I move to a foreign shithole?

 

[georgephillip]

Very true. Amazingly many Americans think this is just fine and unions are commie unamerican organizations. WTF!

Most Americans are ignorant of or indifferent to the roots of organized crime in their country:

https://www.coursehero.com/file/16888276/Chapter-2-Review-Questions/

"Who were the 'Robber Barons' and how did they provide models for organized crime that followed their rise to power and wealth?

The 'Robber Barons' were American businessmen that served as role models for later organized crime groups and members.

"These men were of English, Scottish,Scandinavian, and German decent.

"They included: Astor, Vanderbilt, The Erie Ring,Stanford, and Rockefeller.

"They provided models for organized crime by their actions.

"They used government force for their personal gain.

"Astor cheated Indian traders and hisown employees, and he invested in slum housing.

"Vanderbilt was a monopolist and civilwar profiteer. The Erie Ring used stock fraud and corrupt judges to fight Vanderbilt’s monopoly.

"Stanford was a corrupt governor and briber of Congress, and Rockefeller was an oil and railroad monopolist.

"Q2: What is the connection between urban machine politics and immigration?Between 1820 and 1850, immigration grew dramatically in urban areas. They lived in slum housing and were forced to work dangerous, low paying jobs. Their culture,customs, and beliefs were attacked. Immigrants looked to politics for personal gain and sought these gains through personal relationships."

View full document

 

[Andylusion]

You can say that, but it's never worked in all human history. Every single time the state prints endless currency, the result in economic ruins and inflation.

Try thinking of money like a circuit; money is spent into circulation and taxed back out. Taxes are used to control inflation which is what destroyed the economies you refer to. Deficit spending is not a good idea when applied to a family budget, but when dealing with a monetary sovereign, more money being spent than being taxed means the non-government, aka the people at large, must gain wealth.

Spending deficits are equal to the people's surplus.

But it never happens. You can say "Oh this is a people's surplus" and "the people at large must gain wealth"....

But it never happens. There is no example anywhere in all human history, where this actually happens. There is no example where any country ever taxed and spent themselves into prosperity.

This kind of logic is fantastic for politicians, that can use it to gain themselves more power, and more control, and more dictatorial powers over the public, in the 1984 "New-speak" Orwellian name of "you must be gaining wealth".

But you are not gaining wealth. The public gets poorer. The rich get richer. And the left-wingers celebrate it.

 

[georgephillip]

Why would I move to a foreign shithole?

Because you're a useless piece of shit.

 

[Andylusion]

Would they need more assistance, or less, if they quit Amazon?

They would NOT need any assistance if Greedy Jeff paid a living wage.

Amazon Wage Theft Case Comes Before The Supreme Court | OurFuture.org by People's Action

There is no such thing as wage theft.

You are just making up stuff that doesn't exist.

 

[Andylusion]

Why would I move to a foreign shithole?

Because you're a useless piece of shit.

But you haven't had a logical argument yet, and you refused to answer his questions.

How is he the useless one, when you can't answer simple questions?

 

[Andylusion]

Very true. Amazingly many Americans think this is just fine and unions are commie unamerican organizations. WTF!

Most Americans are ignorant of or indifferent to the roots of organized crime in their country:

https://www.coursehero.com/file/16888276/Chapter-2-Review-Questions/

"Who were the 'Robber Barons' and how did they provide models for organized crime that followed their rise to power and wealth?

The 'Robber Barons' were American businessmen that served as role models for later organized crime groups and members.

"These men were of English, Scottish,Scandinavian, and German decent.

"They included: Astor, Vanderbilt, The Erie Ring,Stanford, and Rockefeller.

"They provided models for organized crime by their actions.

"They used government force for their personal gain.

"Astor cheated Indian traders and hisown employees, and he invested in slum housing.

"Vanderbilt was a monopolist and civilwar profiteer. The Erie Ring used stock fraud and corrupt judges to fight Vanderbilt’s monopoly.

"Stanford was a corrupt governor and briber of Congress, and Rockefeller was an oil and railroad monopolist.

"Q2: What is the connection between urban machine politics and immigration?Between 1820 and 1850, immigration grew dramatically in urban areas. They lived in slum housing and were forced to work dangerous, low paying jobs. Their culture,customs, and beliefs were attacked. Immigrants looked to politics for personal gain and sought these gains through personal relationships."

View full document

Yeah, lots of garbage there. False claims, that are never actually proven.

 

[Andylusion]

O did a great job of bailing out big banks and corporations, with American taxpayer dollars. Then did almost nothing for Americans who got screwed by those big banks

Obama revealed his true colors when his campaign accepted $900,000 from Goldman Sachs in 2008; it's virtually impossible for anyone to become a credible candidate for POTUS or the US Senate without selling out first.

Goldman Sachs was top Obama donor - CNN.com

First, I don't agree with the idea that taking money from someone who supports you, is "selling out".

Selling out, is when you change a position for money.

So, I am a firm believer in the right to bare arms. If a gun-control group offered me millions of dollars for my campaign, provided I support a law banning "Assault weapons", or some such nonsense.... that would be selling out, and I got the money, and then supported banning weapons.

That is a sell out.

No if they give me millions, and I remain entirely pro-2nd-amendment.... then I have no sold out.

And if a gun group, like the NRA gives me a million dollars... I still have not sold out. I already supported the right to bare arms, before I got a penny from them.

It is just strange to me, that every time any group that supports X.... gives money to a politician that ALREADY supports X.... they say things like "They sold out!"..... no, they didn't.

So what position did Obama have, before he collected money from Goldman Sachs, that he changed position on after getting the money? What position did he "sell out"?

Because that is literally what selling out means.

A "sellout" is a person who betrays something to which she is said to owe allegiance.

So what did he sell out? Or any other politicians for that matter?

I don't think you have anything. I think left-wingers just attack randomly at anyone that takes money from anyone.

 

[easyt65]

Obama vowed to 'fundamentally change' the United States and did everything he could to do so. The SOB was tutored by Communist Frank Marshall Davis, studied Saul Spend my - quoted him during his Inauguration, was mentored by a Black Liberation theology (Socialism) America-hating racist pastor, and was friends with a domestic terrorist who killed 1st responders...but Democrats & the fake news media said his past did not matter. WTF?

Barry spent 8 years supporting terrorists and enemies of this country, violating both Constitution and law, and trampling American's Constitutional and Civil Rights. The SOB ended his administration by collaborating with Russia and foreign spies in a failed attempt to overthrow the newly elected Govt.

Democrats spent the last 4 years attempting failed coup attempt after failed coup attempt.

The Democratic Party has been hijacked by leftist extremists, confessed violent anti-American domestic terrorists supported by foreign Sociailist and Marxist enemies who are rioting, looting, burning, destroying, assaulting, murdering, assassinating police IN DEMOCRAT-RUN CITIES where the Democrats running those cities have facilitated the violence.

DEBT is not the driving force behind the DEMOCRAT & FOREIGN ENEMY-supported militant attempt to drive the country into Socialism.

The United States is at war with enemies trying to destroy this nation, run by foreign-funded / supported insurgents inciting the violence and running a destabilizing COUNTER-INSURGENCY operation.

Yes, it has happened HERE.

George Soros is pumping hundreds of millions into funding this right now because he sees we have never been this close to turning on ourselves and collapsing.

BL leaders have openly talked how they were taught / trained in VENEZUELA, some in CUBA. The media has reported China is also involved, attempting to bring this about. The media has been complicit in helping. Many of our politicians have been caught facilitating Chinese espionage and have sold out to China (Feinstein, Schumer, Pelosi...), and those facts are not getting reported nearly enough.

Americans better wake up very quickly and realize the massive division and violence is being orchestrated, pulling the strings of so-far blind puppet citizens who better recognize what is going on soon.

People who tell you 'debt' is driving us towards socialism aren't addressing the reality of what is going on. Americans are being divided. The violence and damage is being perpetrated by individual who don't even live in the locations / communities where the violence is happening. It has been proven they ate being financed by Soros and other sources outside the country.

Unity - one nation under God, and an end to bring blind sheep manipulated to fight amongst ourselves while our nation is being destroyed is our owly hope right now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why would I move to a foreign shithole?

Because you're a useless piece of shit.

Well, if a Marxist failure says so..........

 

[georgephillip]

If you paid for your Microsoft software, instead of stealing it, how was that "at the expense of society"?

Monopolies are another form of theft.

New Cartoon: How Microsoft Robs the Nation

 

[Andylusion]

Relentless work ethic.
12-hour days, 7 days a week.
Staying until 3 AM to get products shipped to customers.

Have you done that? Which of the hourly employees at Amazon is putting in that level of dedication? None?

How many hourly Amazon employees have rich parents?

Jeff Bezos - Wikipedia

"He accepted an estimated $300,000 from his parents and invested in Amazon.[35] He warned many early investors that there was a 70% chance that Amazon would fail or go bankrupt."

Bezos is far from alone when it comes to 12 hour days. Many farm workers toil that many hours every week without ever having a chance of owning the farm someday.

In my urban working class neighborhood there are many who work multiple jobs totaling 12 hours a day six or seven days a week without expecting to become rich someday.

Your worship of rich parasites is disgusting.

Nothing you said, changed anything I said.

Relentless work ethic.
12-hour days, 7 days a week.
Staying until 3 AM to get products shipped to customers.

Have you done that? Which of the hourly employees at Amazon is putting in that level of dedication? None?

Many farm workers toil that many hours every week without ever having a chance of owning the farm someday.

What does that have to do with Bezo? Unless you are saying those warehouse workers at Amazon are farmers...... or something? What exactly you babbling about?

In my urban working class neighborhood there are many who work multiple jobs totaling 12 hours a day six or seven days a week without expecting to become rich someday.

If you work 12 hours a day, six or seven days a week, and don't end up rich..... then you are doing something wrong.

Where is the money going? Seriously, if you work that much, and you are not wealthy by the end of it, then you MUST be doing something wrong. Must be.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

A one-time janitor and gas station attendant demonstrated that you can become a multimillionaire with a modest salary.

www.cnbc.com

A janitor can end up a multi-millionaire, and I promise you he wasn't working 80-90 hours week.

Where is the money going? What work are you doing? Go get your CDL, and drive a truck.

If you are working at Wendy's, and putting in 80 hours, you'd be in management by now, and on track to be a store owner.

What are you doing? Where is the money going?

You ought to be making no less than $50,000 a year, if you are working 80 hours. Live on $40,000, and put $10,000 a year into investments.

By the time you retire, you'll have between $5 Million and $10 Million.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you paid for your Microsoft software, instead of stealing it, how was that "at the expense of society"?

Monopolies are another form of theft.

New Cartoon: How Microsoft Robs the Nation

Microsoft isn't a monopoly. Thief!

 

[Andylusion]

If you paid for your Microsoft software, instead of stealing it, how was that "at the expense of society"?

Monopolies are another form of theft.

New Cartoon: How Microsoft Robs the Nation

First.... You are not robbing anyone, by getting a tax deduction.

You already said openly on this forum, that you used tax deductions yourself. Were you "robbing" the country, by not paying the full amount of taxes, without using a deduction?

Microsoft wants to keep the money that Microsoft rightfully earned.

You want to keep your money, that you rightfully earned.

You would do the exact same thing as Microsoft.

So it's not "robbing" anyone, to keep your own money. That's Microsofts money that you want to tax. It's not your money, and they are robbing you by keeping it.

Second, it's not a monopoly. Right now... I'm typing this on a Apple computer. There is not one single bit of Microsoft software on my computer.

If that's possible... then it isn't a monopoly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Relentless work ethic.
12-hour days, 7 days a week.
Staying until 3 AM to get products shipped to customers.

Have you done that? Which of the hourly employees at Amazon is putting in that level of dedication? None?

How many hourly Amazon employees have rich parents?

Jeff Bezos - Wikipedia

"He accepted an estimated $300,000 from his parents and invested in Amazon.[35] He warned many early investors that there was a 70% chance that Amazon would fail or go bankrupt."

Bezos is far from alone when it comes to 12 hour days. Many farm workers toil that many hours every week without ever having a chance of owning the farm someday.

In my urban working class neighborhood there are many who work multiple jobs totaling 12 hours a day six or seven days a week without expecting to become rich someday.

Your worship of rich parasites is disgusting.

Nothing you said, changed anything I said.

Relentless work ethic.
12-hour days, 7 days a week.
Staying until 3 AM to get products shipped to customers.

Have you done that? Which of the hourly employees at Amazon is putting in that level of dedication? None?

Many farm workers toil that many hours every week without ever having a chance of owning the farm someday.

What does that have to do with Bezo? Unless you are saying those warehouse workers at Amazon are farmers...... or something? What exactly you babbling about?

In my urban working class neighborhood there are many who work multiple jobs totaling 12 hours a day six or seven days a week without expecting to become rich someday.

If you work 12 hours a day, six or seven days a week, and don't end up rich..... then you are doing something wrong.

Where is the money going? Seriously, if you work that much, and you are not wealthy by the end of it, then you MUST be doing something wrong. Must be.

A janitor secretly amassed an $8 million fortune and left most of it to his library and hospital

A one-time janitor and gas station attendant demonstrated that you can become a multimillionaire with a modest salary.

www.cnbc.com

A janitor can end up a multi-millionaire, and I promise you he wasn't working 80-90 hours week.

Where is the money going? What work are you doing? Go get your CDL, and drive a truck.

If you are working at Wendy's, and putting in 80 hours, you'd be in management by now, and on track to be a store owner.

What are you doing? Where is the money going?

You ought to be making no less than $50,000 a year, if you are working 80 hours. Live on $40,000, and put $10,000 a year into investments.

By the time you retire, you'll have between $5 Million and $10 Million.

George has been a failure for a very long time.
He drinks himself to sleep muttering surplus value...Surplus Value...SURPLUS VALUE!

 

[georgephillip]

This is another reason that Marxist logic fails, because the value of any product is always in a dynamic state. The value goes up and down, with demand.

"But all commodities are the products of labor and have that property in common.

"Even though a specific kind of labor might be involved in the production of a specific kind of commodity, still all commodities embody an expenditure of human energy and have this abstract labor in common.

"An object of use has a definite amount of exchange value because a specific amount of labor is required to produce it.

"If producing a sofa requires four times the amount of labor required to produce a bicycle, then the sofa, all other things being equal, will exchange for four bicycles."

The Labor Theory of Value and Surplus Value

 

[eagle1462010]

This is another reason that Marxist logic fails, because the value of any product is always in a dynamic state. The value goes up and down, with demand.

"But all commodities are the products of labor and have that property in common.

"Even though a specific kind of labor might be involved in the production of a specific kind of commodity, still all commodities embody an expenditure of human energy and have this abstract labor in common.

"An object of use has a definite amount of exchange value because a specific amount of labor is required to produce it.

"If producing a sofa requires four times the amount of labor required to produce a bicycle, then the sofa, all other things being equal, will exchange for four bicycles."

The Labor Theory of Value and Surplus Value

You attack Capitalism as the devil..............and you couldn't be more wrong............

We have Crony Capitalism where the gov't picks and chooses the winners..........in essence it's FUEDALISM of the old age of Europe..............

Do as I say or I'll drive you and your family out and starve them to death.......

You speak with Forked tongue.

 

[georgephillip]

Because if you fix your car, and sell it, you don't take the extra thousands of dollars of surplus value created by the mechanic that fixed your car, and give it to him. Why? Because you bought the car. You own the car. It's your car. So the value, is yours.

Same is true of a company. The shareholders own the company. Thus they own the value the company creates. Thus if they want to hire a board of directors, it's their money to do with as they please.

Cars are not shares in a corporation.
Most car owners are not expecting to profit on the sale of a used car in the same way shareholders expect to sell their shares in a corporation for more than they paid for them.

You're also conflating "surplus value" with "value added."
Your mechanic's contribution adds no new value to your car beyond her own labor cost and certainly contributes no profit to your transaction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_value#:~:text=Hence%2C%20Marx's%20use%20of%20Mehrwert,profit%20when%20products%20are%20sold.

"Marx uses the term Mehrwert to describe the yield, profit or return on production capital invested, i.e. the amount of the increase in the value of capital.

"Hence, Marx's use of Mehrwert has always been translated as 'surplus value', distinguishing it from 'value-added'

"According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold.[1] "