Death to the Middle Class

[rightwinger]

The "death" of the middle class is vastly over-rated.

The difference between those defined by income as middle class and those who are not has changed something like -2% over the past 30 years, meaning that the proportion of those defined as middle class has decreased by ~2%.

Unless we move back to subsistence farming we will always have a middle class. What has changed is the standard of living for the middle class. My father could support a family of six on one salary and a high school education. I support a family of four on two salaries and a college education. My 26 year old son can't even afford to go out on his own

 

[Toro]

The "death" of the middle class is vastly over-rated.

The difference between those defined by income as middle class and those who are not has changed something like -2% over the past 30 years, meaning that the proportion of those defined as middle class has decreased by ~2%.

Unless we move back to subsistence farming we will always have a middle class. What has changed is the standard of living for the middle class. My father could support a family of six on one salary and a high school education. I support a family of four on two salaries and a college education. My 26 year old son can't even afford to go out on his own

Actually, that is not true about always having a middle class. There are many countries in the world that do not have a middle class. Throughout most of history, there has been virtually no middle class, just rich and poor. The percentage of those poor in this country in 1900 was much higher than it is today.

I get that people are being squeezed. Incomes have been stagnant over the past decade. However, the middle class is better off than they were 100, 50, 30 years ago. Your father (and my father) had a much lower life expectancy. Your father did not have the medical and technological innovations and products we have today. You probably live in a much bigger house than your father did. ("You" as in third-person "you.") The average home was 900 square feet 50 years ago. Today it is 1500 square feet. Standards of living are higher now. People live better than they did. Food is relatively cheaper. Most people work less. Yes, some families need more income to live the lifestyles that they do, but that is generally because people want more income and choose to live such a lifestyle.

Any individual can specifically point to their circumstances being worse than their parents, but that generally isn't the case.

 

[JW Frogen]

I love easy credit, because we all die in the black but as an alcoholic I know my lenders will see me die in the red, still the expansion of the global easy credit economy has inflated the cost of everything.

Where once one could save and buy a house of cash, or pay it off in a decade, now we buy houses as speculation, take out 20 or 30 year mortgages, hoping it's value will go up enough we can make a profit.

Once we invested in a home, now we pay IOU roulette with a house.

 

[KMAN]

The American middle class is an endangered species. It is being squeezed to death. Middle class Americans are being pushed against their will into the Lower Class. Such is the nature of all the trends in the American economy over many years, not just a consequence of the current Great Recession. This is happening as the rich and powerful Upper Class continues to enjoy their incredible wealth.

Please read the rest of my article at:

Death to the Middle Class by Joel Hirschhorn

Which group is going to fight for us to help not to become extinct??????

 

[Bern80]

We in this country have screwed ourselves. Please let me explain. There was a time in this country when Mama stayed home and looked after the kids and did the household things that were necessary for harmony within the family. Dad was the one who went to work and earned the living that supported his family. There were no credit cards. If there was something that you wanted, you saved up the money for it and when you had the money saved, you bought whatever it was that you wanted. There was peace and harmony within the American family. Somewhere along the way, that picture changed. All of a sudden, Mom entered the work force and both parents were working. Nobody home watching the kids. They were either old enough to tend to themselves or somebody else watched them while Mom went to work. Suddenly the family had two incomes and twice the spending power. Along came credit cards and people began to live outside of their means. With the advent of credit cards, a person could live a higher lifestyle and have more "toys" and not have to save up to make the purchases that supported the new lifestyle. All was well because Mom was working, there was two incomes and more cash flow. Then people began to live outside of their means. Bigger fancier houses were purchased. Much finer cars. Fantasy vacations. You name it. The middle class American began to live the high life and in doing so, eventually was not easily able to make ends meet any longer. Where there was once peace and harmony within the family unit, now there was financial conflict. Bigger salaries were demanded from employers. Unions fought for bigger and bigger benefits and salaries for their members until things like the collapse of the car industry came about because of greed. We destroyed ourselves financially. It isn't that companies don't pay a fair wage for the work that is produced. It is because people demand to live on a lifestyle plateau that is far about their ability to earn the income to support it and we blame other people for not living within our means. In my humble opinion, this is one of the biggest problems in America today. It's called greed.

Nice distraction from the issue at hand. Some of what you say is very true and some isn't, but none of it addresses the issue of fixing the middle class.

That means at least 90% of us employed and wages up.

That means back like it was in the 90's.

And no breaking unions. Labor needs a seat at the table. Union numbers are dismal.

Fix the illegal employer problem, because if there aren't enough jobs for us Americans, then wages won't go up.

And fix our trade agreements. We sent too many jobs overseas. Some of those jobs may never come back. But lets stem the tide. Every other country does protectionism of their domestic industries. Only the US doesn't. And we are the only country that doesn't give national healthcare and/or a public option.

We sent too many jobs and companies overseas. We need to re regulate all this. If they don't operate in America, no tax breaks. We all know these things are going on.

Non union corporations aren't sharing with their staff like they should. The people at the top are getting all the profits. Hell, they don't even care if there are profits, they still get theirs. Being paid millions for leaving after only working for 5 years. The rich think we aren't worth what we are paid but they want to get paid millions for failure.

Give everyone a break on their mortgages and tax breaks on our 401k's.

And the GOP will fight every one of these solutions.

Yes much of what he says is true and the middle class will never get 'fixed' until the middle class takes accountability that a big reason it is screwed up is due to their own behaviors. The solution to any problem one may have is never going to be 100% externalized. YOU have to be self aware and objective enough to recognize the role YOU played in where you are and the role you have the ability to play in where you could be. And the sad fact is this country is crawling with dipshits like yourself that refuse to hold themselves accountable for anything and blame everything else. Thus they refuse to do anything about it and have the balls to wonder why nothing changes.

 

[Bern80]

I was able to pay for 4 years of college working minimum wage jobs. $2 an hour part time paid for my tuition, room and board. I came out of college debt free and immediately started saving for a house.
Kids today don't have a chance. After paying off $70-80K in student loans they need to save another $80K to buy a house. With available jobs for graduates being temp or part time, its hard to get on a good financial footing

Thank you for illustrating my point so well right.

The only reason those fresh out of college adults are going to be fucked is if they adopt your defeatist attittude as oppossed to using that well molded brain they now have. First of all why does someone have to pay off a loan before they buy a house? Second, why would someone have to save 80k to buy said house?

You have to pay off your loan because lenders look at your debt burden before giving you a mortgage. If you make $40,000 and have a $700 a month student loan to pay, its hard to qualify for more debt.
If you have to have 25% down payment you need about $80K for downpayment and closing costs

God help us all if people this dumb (see above) are part of generation me. First of all I don't know a soul paying $700 a month for a student loan. Exagerating is not helping your position. Secondly if 80k is 25% down, that's a $300 - 320 home. There are all kinds of places on the market for far less than that.

I have 10k in student loans to pay off and qualified quite easily for a home loan. The biggest factors that determine that is your ability to pay. The other factor is credit score which I disciplined myself to keep as near perfect as possible.

I thank you AGAIN for illustrating my point about the problem with the mentality of todays society. They simply will not push themselves to find solutions to their own problems. You simply assumed everyone is going to come out of school in debt. You simply assumed everyone has to have a 300k home. And that's the life is and that's the breaks. Yet there are so many solutions and alternatives out there if people would put forth the modicum of effort required to take advantage of them. But no our country is filled with whing dipshits like yourself who would rather sit on the curb with your thumb up your ass expecting solutions to be simply given to you.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You're spouting all this crap about higher production and and greater workload. I have to call bullshit. Back it up with some evidence because that is pretty counter intuitive for a down economy. For people to work more people need to consume more and in a down economy people are consuming less.

OK, I'll easily call you on your bullshit. Keep burying your neocon head in the sand...

"But most American workers have not shared in the growth and prosperity they have been helping to create. Surely, one measure of the success of an economic growth period is how much of that growth finds its way into workers' paychecks. In a period of sharply rising inequality, however, this is no "slam dunk." In fact, as much of the data in this brief reveal, many workers' wages have been stagnant for a number of years, after adjusting for inflation, particularly those at the middle and lower end of the pay scale. For example, while productivity is up nearly 20% since 2000, the real median hourly wage is up 3% overall and 1% for men, with none of this growth occurring over the three-and-a-half years since 2003. At the top of the wage scale—at the 95th percentile—real wages are up 9%. "

Statistics Show Americans Work Longer Hours For Less Pay | NBC4i.com
BBC News | World | 'Americans work longest hours'


Economy’s Gains Fail to Reach Most Workers’ Paychecks

 

[Mr. Peepers]

entitlement mentality pussies like you and Peepers

Exactly what entitlement am I trying to claim? Do you know what an entitlement is? Apparently not...

 

[Mr. Peepers]

We have become a society so adverse to actual challenge that we have wooses like you and peepers who curl up in a fetal position and actually play the victim for OTHER people. At some point in your miserable life you are going to have to own up the FACT that the single best way to change your outcomes is for YOU to take take action. Instead the only action you know how to take is fucking finger pointing.

I work very hard. I am finished with school and about to go back again. No one is "in a fetal position" (as if anyone can afford to do that) while "finger pointing". I have always paid my own way, thank you very much. I see that you are not concerned over the demise of the middle class. Interesting. Tell me, 'O exalted one... who will buy the crap from China that your golden calf corporations sell if no one has any money except the top 1%? Riddle me that.

 

[Zander]

This is a very enlightening graphic. The USA has a very balanced distribution of income. The death of the "middle class" is populist hyperbole, nothing more. Not happy about it? Move to Sweden!

 

[Bern80]

You're spouting all this crap about higher production and and greater workload. I have to call bullshit. Back it up with some evidence because that is pretty counter intuitive for a down economy. For people to work more people need to consume more and in a down economy people are consuming less.

OK, I'll easily call you on your bullshit. Keep burying your neocon head in the sand...

"But most American workers have not shared in the growth and prosperity they have been helping to create. Surely, one measure of the success of an economic growth period is how much of that growth finds its way into workers' paychecks. In a period of sharply rising inequality, however, this is no "slam dunk." In fact, as much of the data in this brief reveal, many workers' wages have been stagnant for a number of years, after adjusting for inflation, particularly those at the middle and lower end of the pay scale. For example, while productivity is up nearly 20% since 2000, the real median hourly wage is up 3% overall and 1% for men, with none of this growth occurring over the three-and-a-half years since 2003. At the top of the wage scale—at the 95th percentile—real wages are up 9%. "

Statistics Show Americans Work Longer Hours For Less Pay | NBC4i.com
BBC News | World | 'Americans work longest hours'


Economy’s Gains Fail to Reach Most Workers’ Paychecks

Okay I yield the point.

It doesn't really change my argument. Let's look at that. In a nutshell, the same amount of work is not yielding the same amount of pay it once did. Or more accuratly perhaps, the same type of work. The point again is what are YOU going to do about it? Wait for things to change to the way you think they should be? Or challenge yourself to reach the standard of living and over all outcomes you desire?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

First of all I don't know a soul paying $700 a month for a student loan.

My best friend is about to graduate (non ivy league) with a PHD and will owe $130K in student loans. Her monthly payment will be over $700.

 

[rightwinger]

This is a very enlightening graphic. The USA has a very balanced distribution of income. The death of the "middle class" is populist hyperbole, nothing more. Not happy about it? Move to Sweden!

Sorry Zander....but I read this to mean that Sweden has the "most even income distribution of any nation"

While the US "has above average uneven distribution"

If you look at your own charts, the US is closer to third world nations than to Sweden

 

[Toro]

Here is another one.

It has changed a bit over the past few years, but it lays out a pretty good picture.

 

[Zander]

This is a very enlightening graphic. The USA has a very balanced distribution of income. The death of the "middle class" is populist hyperbole, nothing more. Not happy about it? Move to Sweden!

Sorry Zander....but I read this to mean that Sweden has the "most even income distribution of any nation"

While the US "has above average uneven distribution"

If you look at your own charts, the US is closer to third world nations than to Sweden

You read it right. If you want better income distribution than the USA move to Sweden- they tax the shit out of the wealthy there.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

[quoteThis is a very enlightening graphic. The USA has a very balanced distribution of income. ][/quote]

Hey genius, what part of "above average uneven income distribution" do you not comprehend?

 

[Bern80]

Exactly what entitlement am I trying to claim? Do you know what an entitlement is? Apparently not...

The notion that you are owed anything from society at all. That somehow you are entitled to have things the way your parents had them. That you are simply entitled to 'better'. An entitlement is something you are owed, that you shouldn't have to work for, that someone simply provides to you at no cost to you. You are NOT entitled to a standard of living, however you choose to define that.

[I work very hard. I am finished with school and about to go back again. No one is "in a fetal position" (as if anyone can afford to do that) while "finger pointing". I have always paid my own way, thank you very much. I see that you are not concerned over the demise of the middle class. Interesting. Tell me, 'O exalted one... who will buy the crap from China that your golden calf corporations sell if no one has any money except the top 1%? Riddle me that.

I am concerned that their is a shifting mentality among the middle class and poor in which people refuse to hold themselves accountable for their outcomes and are entitled to certain outcomes. It is a concept bigger than class warfare. But it is also at the root of the problem. It is one of the more fixable because we have the ability to choose different behaviors. Yet it is the one thing we refuse to do because one of the only things easier than that is to do nothing and blame somene else in the futile hope they will change things into the way you think they should for you.

 

[Big Fitz]

So since Sweden has the most evenly distributed income, what is the income level you make and then get to keep? I'd also love to know the top end of the spectrum as well, because we know the bottom end is zero. Are we talking trickle down prosperity or trickle-up proverty?

Maybe it would be a good idea for a lot of those who see this as a model society to expatriate there. They'd be happy. Not sure what the swedes will think though.

 

[Bern80]

First of all I don't know a soul paying $700 a month for a student loan.

My best friend is about to graduate (non ivy league) with a PHD and will owe $130K in student loans. Her monthly payment will be over $700.

Your friend, PhD and all, is hopefully in a wise enough position to ascertain whether said investment in PhD will yield a solid enough return to make that worthwhile.

 

[Zander]

This is a very enlightening graphic. The USA has a very balanced distribution of income. ]

Hey genius, what part of "above average uneven income distribution" do you not comprehend?

We are solidly in the middle. It’s important to keep in mind that inequality of wealth isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In Namibia it might mean that there’s no economy while a dictator owns everything, but in the US it’s more like a fraction of the population has done very well for itself.

Even the “poor” in the US are pretty well off, having food and housing, and almost always quite a few luxuries (TVs, cars, stereos, etc).

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

* Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
* Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
* Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
* The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
* Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
* Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
* Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
* Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

The "poor" are doing quite well, thank you.


If you don't like it, move to Sweden.