Dear "Conservatives"....

[geauxtohell]

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

Guy, there are a whole lot of flaws in that argument.

The first is that Romney was advocating mandates on the FEDERAL level as late as 2009. Until Obama did it by accident and suddenly, "conservatives' were now against this private sector solution that the Heritage Foundation had been touting for decades.

Now, you can gripe about how our dysfunctional system created a bad law. (I personally think we needed a public option to keep the private insurers honest, and a medicare buy in for people of my age group wouldn't have been a bad idea, either.) The point was, if Romney had faced the kind of mindless, kneejerk oppossition in MA that Obama has faced, he wouldn't have gotten anything done.

The second flaw is that somehow there is a magical difference between the state making you pay for insurance you don't think you need and the federal government doing it. I just don't see it. If I don't think I need the insurance, I'm still buying something I don't want. If I am doing the responsible thing, and buying insurance, I still see the people who aren't getting over on my dime when they do get sick.

Your gliding over the part where the "people" actually got to vote on the mandate.
Any referendum passed by a state are going to have people who didn't want it, but...it was passed by the majority of the people.

So by virtue of people voting for, it becomes conservative?

So gay marriage is now a conservative issue?

 

[JoeB131]

Your gliding over the part where the "people" actually got to vote on the mandate.
Any referendum passed by a state are going to have people who didn't want it, but...it was passed by the majority of the people.

Were the given a choice that read "Status quo, RomneyCare or Canadian Style Health Care". Or did they just dump a "yes or no" vote after the legistlature hammered out details?

We don't do national referendums. Maybe we should. But to complain that Obama didn't use a method we don't use at the national level is kind of weak.

 

[dblack]

Who are the "conservatives" supposed to pick when it's between Obama and Romney?

Are they supposed to write-in Paul? Not vote at all?
Everybody has to work with what they have, and conservatives know that Romney is more conservative than Obama. Conservatives also know that 4 more years of Obama would be disastrous to the conservative cause.

No. What you're saying is that we must complacently accept what we're "offered" as alternatives. What if they just cut through the bullshit and went with the old Soviet style elections where there was only one candidate on the ballot? Would you still 'work with what you have'?

Granted, strictly speaking I'm not looking at this from the "conservative" point of view. I'm more interested in liberty and limited government. But even if I was a true-blue authoritarian Republican, I'd have a hard time finding a substantial distinction between Romney and Obama. Putting aside empty rhetoric, and looking solely at how they've governed, there's very little that separates them.

 

[Zander]

Yeah, Romney's not conservative. Let's look at his record....

Governor of Massachusetts (2003-2007) He balanced the budget every year of his administration with out increasing taxes or increasing state dept.

Romney turned a $3 billion budget deficit into a $500 million surplus by reducing government spending and added 80,000 new jobs by the end of his term.

In 2004, 2005, and 2006 Governor Romney proposed cutting the state income tax from 5.3% to 5.0% Although the Democratic super majority in the state legislator refused to budge.

Romney vetoed 844 pieces of legislation, with over 700 overridden.

He vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, saying "there's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs."

Under Governor Romney the state abolished a retroactive capital gains tax that would have forced nearly 50,000 taxpayers to pay additional taxes and fees. Massachusetts Citizens For Limited Taxation Executive Director Barbara Anderson praised Romney, saying "There was no one else out on the horizon and with the legislature almost entirely Democratic, we felt it was necessary to have a grown-up in the corner office. … And we were right to back him. He's been a really good friend to the taxpayers."

In 2006, Governor Romney testified before the United States Senate to support the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would limit marriage to one man and one woman. Additionally, Romney filed legislation to reinstate capital punishment, but was defeated in the Massachusetts House of Representatives on a 99-53 vote.

Mitt Romney made no pardons as governor, "My conclusion was, if somebody has been convicted by a jury of their peers, and they’ve been prosecuted and the police were able to get the evidence necessary to put them behind bars, why in the world would I step in and reverse that sentence?"

On Education Romney called for the privatization of the University of Massachusetts medical school.

In August 2006, Governor Romney refused to allow former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami, an outspoken opponent of the United States and Israel, state police escorts during his speech at Harvard University.

In December 2006, Romney signed a memorandum of agreement with the federal government that would allow state troopers to enforce federal immigration laws however was revoked when Democrat Deval Patrick took office as Governor in January 2007.

Yeah, he's not conservative....

I wondered when someone would try to pull this bullshit.

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

 

[Londoner]

When you vote for a liberal for his nations highest office in November, you will demonstrate that you aren't a conservative.

I'm not sure people know what Conservatism is. Most of them confuse it with Libertarianism. They don't see any contradictions between the market and the family or the market and their values. In fact, they probably don't even know what I mean.

Consider the Conservative commentator Christoper Lasch. In the 80s, he defended the New Deal and the high wage union based system for workers that Reagan dismantled so that business could have cheaper labor costs. His claim was this: the high wage system allowed the father to support the family on just the father's wage. This allowed the mother to stay home and raise the kids - rather than having to get a job, leaving the kids to be raised by MTV, gangs, and day care. Lasch believed that Conservative values, which cared about the family, were more important than the free market, which wanted cheaper labor costs. Todays Conservatives can't imagine that there is a contradiction between the market and their values. For instance, the market wants cheap Mexican Labor - and therefore open borders - whereas Conservatives care about "Borders,Language,Culture".

Reagan pulled social conservatives and Libertarians under one tent. This was his way of creating an election machine that could use the money of big business and the populism of religion (allowing him to harvest the heartland and rural America. Remember: Reagan Democrats were northern Catholic workers who were disgusted by the Left's lurch into radical Liberal social issues, e.g., sexual revolution, secularism, flag burning, multiculturalism. Reagan needed the social conservative values element (to pull in the lower classes) as much as he needed the money of business and their Libertarianism. Problem is: who knew they would raise a generation of idiots who confused Conservatism and Libertarianism).

 

[Dot Com]

It is.

However, after years of listening to people prattle on about their beliefs and ideology, I am amused to watch them support a liberal for party expediency.

The truth is, you all have no principles. You are merely partisans for the GOP.

If you had principles, you would have true conservative candidates and wouldna't be in this situation.

you are basically saying what i have been saying for awhile now. I've just been more colorful.

They are whores, whores don't care and just want to win. It doesnt matter what party it is, both have them. They are nothing more than a body to be used.

like i think "mac"? said, We've watched them back everyone but Mitt, and now that it is mitt they will back him regardless. these people dont have principles beyond winning. You see that in every thread about any topic. Its about winning, not what is right.

"Baseball team politics". I support my side because it's all about winning and not ideals.

"taking one for the team"

 

[The T]

Yeah, Romney's not conservative. Let's look at his record....

Governor of Massachusetts (2003-2007) He balanced the budget every year of his administration with out increasing taxes or increasing state dept.

Romney turned a $3 billion budget deficit into a $500 million surplus by reducing government spending and added 80,000 new jobs by the end of his term.

In 2004, 2005, and 2006 Governor Romney proposed cutting the state income tax from 5.3% to 5.0% Although the Democratic super majority in the state legislator refused to budge.

Romney vetoed 844 pieces of legislation, with over 700 overridden.

He vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, saying "there's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs."

Under Governor Romney the state abolished a retroactive capital gains tax that would have forced nearly 50,000 taxpayers to pay additional taxes and fees. Massachusetts Citizens For Limited Taxation Executive Director Barbara Anderson praised Romney, saying "There was no one else out on the horizon and with the legislature almost entirely Democratic, we felt it was necessary to have a grown-up in the corner office. … And we were right to back him. He's been a really good friend to the taxpayers."

In 2006, Governor Romney testified before the United States Senate to support the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would limit marriage to one man and one woman. Additionally, Romney filed legislation to reinstate capital punishment, but was defeated in the Massachusetts House of Representatives on a 99-53 vote.

Mitt Romney made no pardons as governor, "My conclusion was, if somebody has been convicted by a jury of their peers, and they’ve been prosecuted and the police were able to get the evidence necessary to put them behind bars, why in the world would I step in and reverse that sentence?"

On Education Romney called for the privatization of the University of Massachusetts medical school.

In August 2006, Governor Romney refused to allow former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami, an outspoken opponent of the United States and Israel, state police escorts during his speech at Harvard University.

In December 2006, Romney signed a memorandum of agreement with the federal government that would allow state troopers to enforce federal immigration laws however was revoked when Democrat Deval Patrick took office as Governor in January 2007.

Yeah, he's not conservative....

I wondered when someone would try to pull this bullshit.

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

Indeed. Obama had a record (or lack of) in '08 that the media ignored save for Bush Derrangement/Fatigue...

Now Obama has a SOLID record of failure that cannot be ignored no matter the spin of his supporters to other sources. Obama has been in charge, and it's an albatross around his neck that will take him down.

The American people aren't as stupid as the left thinks they are.

WE are fed up.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

His actually record was that he didn't run for a second term because he was trailing potential challengers by double digits. And the only reason he wasn't the most unpopular governor in the country is that no Hurricanes hit his state.... So he had that going for him.

If Romney was proud of his record as Governor, he'd talk about it a lot more. He's talking about his success as a business guy. Which works if no one actually talks to anyone who had the bad luck of working for a company he bought out.

(Waiting for him to whine about anti-Mormon bigotry.... you know he's gonna do it.)

 

[dblack]

You're being overpaid with this poor attempt of a spin, greenbeard.

Spin? You just said the problem lies in the difference between a state statute and a federal statute, not in the policy itself (which, obviously, Romney himself supports).

Romney has expressed support for using federal money to get states to pass those statutes. Then your objection will fade away, the policy will be in place, and we can all get on with our lives.

The "state's rights" parry is a slim defense for Romney's support of an egregious corporatist mandate. The fact that he fails to see what a gross violation of liberty the policy is, that he is perfectly willing to use the coercive power of the state to sell us out to the insurance lobby shows he has no principled objection to the policy - only a 'claimed' technical opposition. The belief that he would invest any serious effort in repealing PPACA is laughable in my view. I certainly don't buy it.

 

[freedombecki]

All these things said, I have a hunch Romney will put together a team of top Americans who can and will pull back big government fiscally, while leaving room in the national budget for fighting off terrorism, developing the job market to its best extent, and constitutional requirements. He will rewrite Obamacare using things he learned from the mistakes of Romney care.

I think Romney will surprise Americans when they realize he will be a caring administrator while doing the brass tacks of getting government back in tow.

He sets down the gauntlet, and he doesn't let go of a good thing until a lockstep group vetoes him out.

I hope that doesn't happen. I hope his administration will be one of the best governments ever--one that ensures the Constitutional Bill of Rights are protected while taking on ideas of the best American minds to set as an example freedom, a cherished ideal attainable in the world that has the strength of founders' principles at work among us.

 

[JoeB131]

Why?

For much of his first term, Bush was a very hands off President. Most of the time, he looked like he didn't know what was going on. The country was being run, effectively, by Cheney and the boys. It wasn't until later in the second term, when Bush's father interceded by sending in the "A-Team", that you see some pretty big changes. Rumsfeld went away..and Gates got in. There was some meaningful changes in the way the Iraqi war was conducted...which led to a success. But for pretty much of Bush's presidency..he wasn't running the show.

I'd disagree with that interpretation of his presidency.

In his first term- like all presidents- he boosted himself by picking respected senators and governors for the key positions. Powell, Rummy, Ridge, Ashcroft, etc. Bush's first term was actually successful by the measure that he got elected to a second one.

In the second term, he got more loyalists- such as Rice and Gonzalez, who were the second string players. then you had Iraq go south, Katrina and all the amatuer night stuff happening.

I know it's popular to believe that Cheney was the guy running the show, because Bush on a personal level is likable and Cheney isn't. So he's a villian from central casting.

The reality, as Heinlein observed, is that a politician is always a team, and the person is really just the brand name. Bush was a brand name.

 

[Liability]

...if you support the Massachusetts liberal known as Mitt Romney you are not a conservative, you are just a Republican that will support whatever bag of shit they send you.

At least the Paul people have the balls to support a losing candidate that truly endorses their beliefs.

Sign in below....

Dear Tourist and Visitor Information Booth Clerk for Hell:

Wrong.

I will support Mitt. I am a conservative. I am not a Republican. It's either Mitt or that dangerously misguided jackass who is currently the holder of the Office.

That's not even close to being a choice. OF COURSE I'll vote for Mitt. If NOTHING else at least it will be another vote to eject President Obama from the White House. That alone makes it a great vote.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

Because I am the first person to accuse Romney of being liberal.....

The reality is, most of the prominent conservatives and some conservatives on this thread have previously tagged Romney as a liberal.

See?

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative | RealClearPolitics

So this talk of ideology is just crap. The only ideology is beating Obama.

So if Romney wins, it shouldn't be surprising to you that he governs as a liberal.

And you voted for it.

 

[geauxtohell]

I wondered when someone would try to pull this bullshit.

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

Indeed. Obama had a record (or lack of) in '08 that the media ignored save for Bush Derrangement/Fatigue...

Now Obama has a SOLID record of failure that cannot be ignored no matter the spin of his supporters to other sources. Obama has been in charge, and it's an albatross around his neck that will take him down.

The American people aren't as stupid as the left thinks they are.

WE are fed up.

This isn't about Obama.

It's about you selling out.

 

[sallyforth]

There is nothing wrong with Romney. Why is the left so frantic to say there is? Hmmm?

 

[Liability]

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

Because I am the first person to accuse Romney of being liberal.....

The reality is, most of the prominent conservatives and some conservatives on this thread have previously tagged Romney as a liberal.

See?

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative | RealClearPolitics

So this talk of ideology is just crap. The only ideology is beating Obama.

So if Romney wins, it shouldn't be surprising to you that he governs as a liberal.

And you voted for it.

Let me stipulate that his record suggests to me that Mitt is not a conservative. Indeed, he has seemed to me to be a bit of a lib.

However, even so, compared to the incumbent, Mitt is effectively a staunch and arch conservative.

 

[Amelia]

Yeah, putting up his actual record is bullshit, while some troll on the internet stating "He's not a conservative" is fact. Do you think saying "Romneycare" is some magical card that trumps reality?? What bizarro world do you live in?

Romney led Massachusetts as a conservative and his record proves it. He's got an excellent campaign organization and will be a very formidable candidate. Obama's in for a real fight this time.....

Because I am the first person to accuse Romney of being liberal.....

The reality is, most of the prominent conservatives and some conservatives on this thread have previously tagged Romney as a liberal.

See?

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative | RealClearPolitics

So this talk of ideology is just crap. The only ideology is beating Obama.

So if Romney wins, it shouldn't be surprising to you that he governs as a liberal.

And you voted for it.

Well, if you're going to post that bit by Rush, you open up a whole nother can of worms.

In 2008, Rush rated Romney as conservative in the three principle ways he measures conservatism.

Who changed between 2008 and 2011? Hint: It wasn't Romney.

 

[geauxtohell]

...if you support the Massachusetts liberal known as Mitt Romney you are not a conservative, you are just a Republican that will support whatever bag of shit they send you.

At least the Paul people have the balls to support a losing candidate that truly endorses their beliefs.

Sign in below....

Dear Tourist and Visitor Information Booth Clerk for Hell:

Wrong.

I will support Mitt. I am a conservative. I am not a Republican. It's either Mitt or that dangerously misguided jackass who is currently the holder of the Office.

That's not even close to being a choice. OF COURSE I'll vote for Mitt. If NOTHING else at least it will be another vote to eject President Obama from the White House. That alone makes it a great vote.

And again, replacing one liberal with another.

Faust called. He wants his deal back.

 

[Meister]

There is nothing wrong with Romney. Why is the left so frantic to say there is? Hmmm?

Because the left knows Obama can't run on his record.. They think if your a GOP you have to be a hardcore conservative.

 

[Meister]

...if you support the Massachusetts liberal known as Mitt Romney you are not a conservative, you are just a Republican that will support whatever bag of shit they send you.

At least the Paul people have the balls to support a losing candidate that truly endorses their beliefs.

Sign in below....

Dear Tourist and Visitor Information Booth Clerk for Hell:

Wrong.

I will support Mitt. I am a conservative. I am not a Republican. It's either Mitt or that dangerously misguided jackass who is currently the holder of the Office.

That's not even close to being a choice. OF COURSE I'll vote for Mitt. If NOTHING else at least it will be another vote to eject President Obama from the White House. That alone makes it a great vote.

And again, replacing one liberal with another.

Faust called. He wants his deal back.

There are degrees of liberalism.....Obama is far left of Romney...no matter what you say.