Dear "Conservatives"....

[geauxtohell]

Who are the "conservatives" supposed to pick when it's between Obama and Romney?

Are they supposed to write-in Paul? Not vote at all?
Everybody has to work with what they have, and conservatives know that Romney is more conservative than Obama. Conservatives also know that 4 more years of Obama would be disastrous to the conservative cause.

They could have voted for Santorum.

They didn't because he wasn't electable (in their view).

So is this about principles or winning elections?

You're under the premis that the majority of the GOP are hardcore conservatives....I don't think so. I think there are a lot of moderates in the GOP.
My own view on Santorum was that he wasn't smart enough. My view was and proved to be that Obama wasn't smart enough.

The polls showed a lot of self professed conservatives pulled the lever for Romney due to electability.

 

[geauxtohell]

Who are the "conservatives" supposed to pick when it's between Obama and Romney?

Are they supposed to write-in Paul? Not vote at all?
Everybody has to work with what they have, and conservatives know that Romney is more conservative than Obama. Conservatives also know that 4 more years of Obama would be disastrous to the conservative cause.

The only way that four more years of Obama could be disasterous to the "conservative cause" is if his ideas actually work really well.

For instance, if everyone is happy with ObamaCare (which they used to call RomneyCare until he didn't want to be caught having a drink with it), what is the conservative argument at that point? "Let's go back to letting the insurance companies kill your kid for profit?"

I think when you are at the point where Ann Coulter is arguing that RomneyCare is a solid Conservative idea and ObamaCare is about one step from Stalinism, the whole "conservative/lberal" argument is kind of over.
.

This basically sums it up.

 

[Meister]

Who are the "conservatives" supposed to pick when it's between Obama and Romney?

Are they supposed to write-in Paul? Not vote at all?
Everybody has to work with what they have, and conservatives know that Romney is more conservative than Obama. Conservatives also know that 4 more years of Obama would be disastrous to the conservative cause.

The only way that four more years of Obama could be disasterous to the "conservative cause" is if his ideas actually work really well.

For instance, if everyone is happy with ObamaCare (which they used to call RomneyCare until he didn't want to be caught having a drink with it), what is the conservative argument at that point? "Let's go back to letting the insurance companies kill your kid for profit?"

I think when you are at the point where Ann Coulter is arguing that RomneyCare is a solid Conservative idea and ObamaCare is about one step from Stalinism, the whole "conservative/lberal" argument is kind of over.

I usually vote Republican, but this time, I'm voting for Obama because I dislike Romney as a human being. Crazy, evil religion, unethical business practices and a deep feeling that he ain't going to have my back in the future.

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yeah, Romney's not conservative. Let's look at his record....

Governor of Massachusetts (2003-2007) He balanced the budget every year of his administration with out increasing taxes or increasing state dept.

Romney turned a $3 billion budget deficit into a $500 million surplus by reducing government spending and added 80,000 new jobs by the end of his term.

In 2004, 2005, and 2006 Governor Romney proposed cutting the state income tax from 5.3% to 5.0% Although the Democratic super majority in the state legislator refused to budge.

Romney vetoed 844 pieces of legislation, with over 700 overridden.

He vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, saying "there's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs."

Under Governor Romney the state abolished a retroactive capital gains tax that would have forced nearly 50,000 taxpayers to pay additional taxes and fees. Massachusetts Citizens For Limited Taxation Executive Director Barbara Anderson praised Romney, saying "There was no one else out on the horizon and with the legislature almost entirely Democratic, we felt it was necessary to have a grown-up in the corner office. … And we were right to back him. He's been a really good friend to the taxpayers."

In 2006, Governor Romney testified before the United States Senate to support the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would limit marriage to one man and one woman. Additionally, Romney filed legislation to reinstate capital punishment, but was defeated in the Massachusetts House of Representatives on a 99-53 vote.

Mitt Romney made no pardons as governor, "My conclusion was, if somebody has been convicted by a jury of their peers, and they’ve been prosecuted and the police were able to get the evidence necessary to put them behind bars, why in the world would I step in and reverse that sentence?"

On Education Romney called for the privatization of the University of Massachusetts medical school.

In August 2006, Governor Romney refused to allow former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami, an outspoken opponent of the United States and Israel, state police escorts during his speech at Harvard University.

In December 2006, Romney signed a memorandum of agreement with the federal government that would allow state troopers to enforce federal immigration laws however was revoked when Democrat Deval Patrick took office as Governor in January 2007.

Yeah, he's not conservative....

I wondered when someone would try to pull this bullshit.

Feel free to refute what Zander posted.

"Romneycare"

 

[Meister]

I wondered when someone would try to pull this bullshit.

Feel free to refute what Zander posted.

"Romneycare"

Post #203

 

[Greenbeard]

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

It's somewhat gratifying after all this time to find out everyone agrees with the policy, they disagree only with the precise mechanics of its implementation.

Mitt has expressed support for making certain federal funds to states contingent upon the state instituting an individual mandate (or equivalent). So the states will do it, the policy will be in place, and everyone will be happy.

Maybe Mitt is a uniter, after all.

 

[geauxtohell]

Feel free to refute what Zander posted.

"Romneycare"

Post #203

The issue isn't whether he was effective.

It's if he's conservative.

So again: "Romneycare"

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, Romney's not conservative. Let's look at his record....

Governor of Massachusetts (2003-2007) He balanced the budget every year of his administration with out increasing taxes or increasing state dept.

Romney turned a $3 billion budget deficit into a $500 million surplus by reducing government spending and added 80,000 new jobs by the end of his term.

In 2004, 2005, and 2006 Governor Romney proposed cutting the state income tax from 5.3% to 5.0% Although the Democratic super majority in the state legislator refused to budge.

Romney vetoed 844 pieces of legislation, with over 700 overridden.

He vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, saying "there's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs."

...

Mitt Romney made no pardons as governor, "My conclusion was, if somebody has been convicted by a jury of their peers, and they’ve been prosecuted and the police were able to get the evidence necessary to put them behind bars, why in the world would I step in and reverse that sentence?"

...

In August 2006, Governor Romney refused to allow former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami, an outspoken opponent of the United States and Israel, state police escorts during his speech at Harvard University.

:

I wondered when someone would try to pull this bullshit.

Feel free to refute what Zander posted.

I have a bunch of times, but then I get the tired "Yoooooo just hate him because he's a Mooooooormon."

Short version, -

1) Budget- Most of the hard decisions on Massachusett's budget were made by his Republican predecessors. They are the ones who submitted revised budgets and push through modest tax and fee increases.

2) 80,000 jobs by the end of his first term? In a state with a population of 7 million? That's actually kind of pathetic, especially given the period of 2003 to 2007 was one on nation-wide job growth. In fact, Romney's job creation ranked 47th in the nation.

3) Didn't give a foreign dignitary (one considered someone the west could actually work with) a police escort? Wow. That'll show him. I'm sure if something bad happened to the guy while visiting, that would have gone over really well, too.

4) Romney made no pardons as governor? Really? One of those pardons he refused to grant was for a decorated vet who wanted a juvenile offense expunged so he could apply to the police academy. Now, I'm sure that while it's a nice contrast to Mike Huckabee handing out pardons like door prizes, I just see them as absolutes in the same extremism. The Pardon power exists for a good reason. That Romney never encountered an oppurunity to use it meant he just wasn't trying that hard.

Now most of the things that Zander cited are really the typical "economic conservative" things, which is let's make life easier for corporations and rich people, because they have it soooo hard. What I'm not seeing his how Romney really made life better for average folks in the Bay state.

And neither did they, as he was ranked 48 out of 50 governors and was trailing Devall Patrick by double digits before he decided not to run again.

You know, there's a reason why Romney talks very little about his Governor days.

 

[Meister]

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

It's somewhat gratifying after all this time to find out everyone agrees with the policy, they disagree only with the precise mechanics of its implementation.

Mitt has expressed support for making certain federal funds to states contingent upon the state instituting an individual mandate (or equivalent). So the states will do it, the policy will be in place, and everyone will be happy.

Maybe Mitt is a uniter, after all.

You're being overpaid with this poor attempt of a spin, greenbeard.

 

[The T]

whatever happened to the con mantra :"If your going to vote for a big gov't/liberal repub, you might as well vote for the real thing- A Democrat."

And whatever happened to logic and dealing with the cards you've been dealt with an imperfect system, and taking chances in order to turn a bad situation around?

 

[geauxtohell]

You know, there's a reason why Romney talks very little about his Governor days.

Holy hell. You are right!

 

[Greenbeard]

You're being overpaid with this poor attempt of a spin, greenbeard.

Spin? You just said the problem lies in the difference between a state statute and a federal statute, not in the policy itself (which, obviously, Romney himself supports).

Romney has expressed support for using federal money to get states to pass those statutes. Then your objection will fade away, the policy will be in place, and we can all get on with our lives.

 

[geauxtohell]

Who are the "conservatives" supposed to pick when it's between Obama and Romney?

Are they supposed to write-in Paul? Not vote at all?
Everybody has to work with what they have, and conservatives know that Romney is more conservative than Obama. Conservatives also know that 4 more years of Obama would be disastrous to the conservative cause.

The only way that four more years of Obama could be disasterous to the "conservative cause" is if his ideas actually work really well.

For instance, if everyone is happy with ObamaCare (which they used to call RomneyCare until he didn't want to be caught having a drink with it), what is the conservative argument at that point? "Let's go back to letting the insurance companies kill your kid for profit?"

I think when you are at the point where Ann Coulter is arguing that RomneyCare is a solid Conservative idea and ObamaCare is about one step from Stalinism, the whole "conservative/lberal" argument is kind of over.

I usually vote Republican, but this time, I'm voting for Obama because I dislike Romney as a human being. Crazy, evil religion, unethical business practices and a deep feeling that he ain't going to have my back in the future.

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

So radically expanding the scope of government is a conservative principle if confined to state boundaries?

C'mon.

 

[freedombecki]

Liberals will prove that Romney is no liberal in the manner in which they attack him.. Just sit by and watch, it will be fun. then go to hell can eat some shitty crow.

I always envisioned Geaux as a man of reason, because he uses knowledge for the good of other people, and I can't knock him for loyalty, either. I see Geaux, and I see a good American there. I hope he feels the same way about us sometimes. If he does, he will be an MVP when and if America has a terrible rift. Reasonable men will eventually find good. imho.

 

[JoeB131]

Who are the "conservatives" supposed to pick when it's between Obama and Romney?

Are they supposed to write-in Paul? Not vote at all?
Everybody has to work with what they have, and conservatives know that Romney is more conservative than Obama. Conservatives also know that 4 more years of Obama would be disastrous to the conservative cause.

The only way that four more years of Obama could be disasterous to the "conservative cause" is if his ideas actually work really well.

For instance, if everyone is happy with ObamaCare (which they used to call RomneyCare until he didn't want to be caught having a drink with it), what is the conservative argument at that point? "Let's go back to letting the insurance companies kill your kid for profit?"

I think when you are at the point where Ann Coulter is arguing that RomneyCare is a solid Conservative idea and ObamaCare is about one step from Stalinism, the whole "conservative/lberal" argument is kind of over.

I usually vote Republican, but this time, I'm voting for Obama because I dislike Romney as a human being. Crazy, evil religion, unethical business practices and a deep feeling that he ain't going to have my back in the future.

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

Guy, there are a whole lot of flaws in that argument.

The first is that Romney was advocating mandates on the FEDERAL level as late as 2009. Until Obama did it by accident and suddenly, "conservatives' were now against this private sector solution that the Heritage Foundation had been touting for decades.

Now, you can gripe about how our dysfunctional system created a bad law. (I personally think we needed a public option to keep the private insurers honest, and a medicare buy in for people of my age group wouldn't have been a bad idea, either.) The point was, if Romney had faced the kind of mindless, kneejerk oppossition in MA that Obama has faced, he wouldn't have gotten anything done.

The second flaw is that somehow there is a magical difference between the state making you pay for insurance you don't think you need and the federal government doing it. I just don't see it. If I don't think I need the insurance, I'm still buying something I don't want. If I am doing the responsible thing, and buying insurance, I still see the people who aren't getting over on my dime when they do get sick.

 

[geauxtohell]

whatever happened to the con mantra :"If your going to vote for a big gov't/liberal repub, you might as well vote for the real thing- A Democrat."

And whatever happened to logic and dealing with the cards you've been dealt with an imperfect system, and taking chances in order to turn a bad situation around?

If you are a conservative,

How is voting for a liberal going to fix an imperfect system?

 

[Meister]

The only way that four more years of Obama could be disasterous to the "conservative cause" is if his ideas actually work really well.

For instance, if everyone is happy with ObamaCare (which they used to call RomneyCare until he didn't want to be caught having a drink with it), what is the conservative argument at that point? "Let's go back to letting the insurance companies kill your kid for profit?"

I think when you are at the point where Ann Coulter is arguing that RomneyCare is a solid Conservative idea and ObamaCare is about one step from Stalinism, the whole "conservative/lberal" argument is kind of over.

I usually vote Republican, but this time, I'm voting for Obama because I dislike Romney as a human being. Crazy, evil religion, unethical business practices and a deep feeling that he ain't going to have my back in the future.

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

So radically expanding the scope of government is a conservative principle if confined to state boundaries?

C'mon.

Dude.....yes, a conservative view is a stronger state government and a smaller federal government. The state let the people vote on what the people wanted. It's not that hard to understand....but, think what you want, it's a free country right now.

 

[geauxtohell]

What a sophomoric attempt to suggest that every election is not simply a choice between two candidates.

I'm certain that in your lithium-watch-battery brain you believe you can cause anyone not to vote against this failure in the White House.....

.....wrong.

It is.

However, after years of listening to people prattle on about their beliefs and ideology, I am amused to watch them support a liberal for party expediency.

The truth is, you all have no principles. You are merely partisans for the GOP.

If you had principles, you would have true conservative candidates and wouldna't be in this situation.

you are basically saying what i have been saying for awhile now. I've just been more colorful.

They are whores, whores don't care and just want to win. It doesnt matter what party it is, both have them. They are nothing more than a body to be used.

like i think "mac"? said, We've watched them back everyone but Mitt, and now that it is mitt they will back him regardless. these people dont have principles beyond winning. You see that in every thread about any topic. Its about winning, not what is right.

"Baseball team politics". I support my side because it's all about winning and not ideals.

 

[Meister]

The only way that four more years of Obama could be disasterous to the "conservative cause" is if his ideas actually work really well.

For instance, if everyone is happy with ObamaCare (which they used to call RomneyCare until he didn't want to be caught having a drink with it), what is the conservative argument at that point? "Let's go back to letting the insurance companies kill your kid for profit?"

I think when you are at the point where Ann Coulter is arguing that RomneyCare is a solid Conservative idea and ObamaCare is about one step from Stalinism, the whole "conservative/lberal" argument is kind of over.

I usually vote Republican, but this time, I'm voting for Obama because I dislike Romney as a human being. Crazy, evil religion, unethical business practices and a deep feeling that he ain't going to have my back in the future.

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

Guy, there are a whole lot of flaws in that argument.

The first is that Romney was advocating mandates on the FEDERAL level as late as 2009. Until Obama did it by accident and suddenly, "conservatives' were now against this private sector solution that the Heritage Foundation had been touting for decades.

Now, you can gripe about how our dysfunctional system created a bad law. (I personally think we needed a public option to keep the private insurers honest, and a medicare buy in for people of my age group wouldn't have been a bad idea, either.) The point was, if Romney had faced the kind of mindless, kneejerk oppossition in MA that Obama has faced, he wouldn't have gotten anything done.

The second flaw is that somehow there is a magical difference between the state making you pay for insurance you don't think you need and the federal government doing it. I just don't see it. If I don't think I need the insurance, I'm still buying something I don't want. If I am doing the responsible thing, and buying insurance, I still see the people who aren't getting over on my dime when they do get sick.

Your gliding over the part where the "people" actually got to vote on the mandate.
Any referendum passed by a state are going to have people who didn't want it, but...it was passed by the majority of the people.

 

[geauxtohell]

The difference between Obamacare and Romneycare? Romneycare was a state mandate voted on "by the people" for the funding....did not go past the borders of the state.
Obamacare was a federal mandate voted on by bribed and threatened politicians in the dead of the night.....that forces states to comply.
Yes, giving states the right and not the federal government is a conservative thingy.

So radically expanding the scope of government is a conservative principle if confined to state boundaries?

C'mon.

Dude.....yes, a conservative view is a stronger state government and a smaller federal government. The state let the people vote on what the people wanted. It's not that hard to understand....but, think what you want, it's a free country right now.

It's just hard to make it something that it is not, which is a conservative position.

As evidenced by your previous mind anesthesia.