Dang, You Gotta Love This Post

[Annie]

http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2006/06/womens-confidence-day.html

Links at site:

Thursday, June 08, 2006
Women's Confidence Day
Apparently, yesterday was declared Women's Confidence Day by Queen Latifah and other women who feel the need to continue the tired program of promoting women's self-esteem (Thanks Allah Pundit). Haven't we drilled into most women's heads enough self-esteem already? Has anyone ever asked whether or not this "self-esteem" is helpful to women and society or not? Pumping women up with fake programs and phony self-esteem seems to do more harm than good--hence the need for books like See Jane Hit : Why Girls Are Growing More Violent and What We Can Do About It. It seems that we would spend our time more wisely by teaching women how to actually master real skills such as mathematics, science and engineering then promoting programs that provide a fake, but worthless sense of self. "Radiating confidence" can never substitute for real knowledge and plain hard work.

posted by Helen at 7:53 AM

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

You mean expect someone to actually put out the effort to better themselves rather than just telling they are better?

Gee, will that work?

 

[Bullypulpit]

http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2006/06/womens-confidence-day.html

Links at site:

We've made quite a habit of providing phony, unearned self-esteem in this society over the last forty years or so. As a result, we're producing a whole gneration that doesn't know the meaning of failure...i.e. get up dust yourself off and do it again until you get it right. Instead they get this look of utter shock on their faces when they find out the world isn't going to give them a pat on the back for simply breathing.

 

[Annie]

We've made quite a habit of providing phony, unearned self-esteem in this society over the last forty years or so. As a result, we're producing a whole gneration that doesn't know the meaning of failure...i.e. get up dust yourself off and do it again until you get it right. Instead they get this look of utter shock on their faces when they find out the world isn't going to give them a pat on the back for simply breathing.

Exactly.

 

[Said1]

Maybe teaching/telling those who haven't learned, for whatever reason that they can learn isn't such a bad thing either?

Who hear hasn't said "I couldn't do that" without even trying? I've had self-defeating thoughts, am I the only one?

 

[Gunny]

Maybe teaching/telling those who haven't learned, for whatever reason that they can learn isn't such a bad thing either?

Who hear hasn't said "I couldn't do that" without even trying? I've had self-defeating thoughts, am I the only one?

I doubt ANYONE can make the claim they have never had self-defeating thoughts. Society programs us from Day One with a set of arbitrary parameters which we quitely accept. Even those who consider themselves "daring" and unhindered will not ignore ALL the walls pre-built for us.

 

[Said1]

I doubt ANYONE can make the claim they have never had self-defeating thoughts. Society programs us from Day One with a set of arbitrary parameters which we quitely accept. Even those who consider themselves "daring" and unhindered will not ignore ALL the walls pre-built for us.

Well, I guess you told me.

Anyway, I'll repeat and expand a bit more. Is there anything wrong with teaching those who haven't learned, for whatever reason, that they can do something? Some are programmed by others, from birth, not necessarily by society.

Maybe it's the "you go girl" *snap, snap* way she's presenting it that is so unappealing to many? Maybe it should be directed at people, instead of women?

 

[Annie]

Well, I guess you told me.

Anyway, I'll repeat. Is there anything wrong with teaching those who haven't learned, for whatever reason, that they can do something? Some are programmed by others, from birth, not necessarily by society.

Maybe it's the "you go girl" *snap, snap* way she's presenting it that is so unappealing to many? Maybe it should be directed at people, instead of women?

I think I get what you are saying. I always find something good in any work one of my student's have done, provided there is demonstration of effort in it. It may be they missed the mark in finding the 'important information', but did a wonderful job at presenting it. Sooo, "Geoff, your presentation was terrific! I really liked ...., I want to see that again, now let's look at what your sources said and here's how you are going to fix this... and present it again..." If a student has attempted the work, but somehow not managed to 'get it', I think it's important that they have both the opportunity to correct their mistakes and not be annihilated in the process. Will I give them an 'A' for the final grade, no. However, if done correctly and timely, they can get a 'B', 'C', or 'D' instead of an 'F.' To me, 'F' should be used for kids that do not do the work or demonstrate an inability to complete the work-they need help that isn't available without additional support, not found in a regular classroom.

 

[Said1]

I think I get what you are saying. I always find something good in any work one of my student's have done, provided there is demonstration of effort in it. It may be they missed the mark in finding the 'important information', but did a wonderful job at presenting it. Sooo, "Geoff, your presentation was terrific! I really liked ...., I want to see that again, now let's look at what your sources said and here's how you are going to fix this... and present it again..." If a student has attempted the work, but somehow not managed to 'get it', I think it's important that they have both the opportunity to correct their mistakes and not be annihilated in the process. Will I give them an 'A' for the final grade, no. However, if done correctly and timely, they can get a 'B', 'C', or 'D' instead of an 'F.' To me, 'F' should be used for kids that do not do the work or demonstrate an inability to complete the work-they need help that isn't available without additional support, not found in a regular classroom.

Yes, that's one way of looking at it, which can be applied to a multitude of situations - in different contexts of course. I'm sure you've heard of "The Sandwich Effect".

Some people will never be able to do certain things, I know this is a fact. However saying "you dumb shit, why would you want to do that?" is detrimental on so many levels that go above and beyond what that person is trying to accomplish - which I think is Latifah's point, at it's most general level. Like I said, maybe her message should be directed at everyone, and not just women.

 

[Annie]

Yes, that's one way of looking at it, which can be applied to a multitude of situations - in different contexts of course. I'm sure you've heard of "The Sandwich Effect".

Some people will never be able to do certain things, I know this is a fact. However saying "you dumb shit, why would you want to do that?" is detrimental on so many levels that go above and beyond what that person is trying to accomplish - which I think is Latifah's point, at it's most general level. Like I said, maybe her message should be directed at everyone, and not just women.

Wow, if I ever heard a teacher saying a variation of that I'd flip out. I think parents sometimes convey messages like that, unintentionally. Comparisons between siblings like, 'Johnny is a great writer, which Judy shines at math.' Didn't saying anything abusive, but I'll wager Johnny's writing will improve, not so much his math and vice versa for Judy.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes, that's one way of looking at it, which can be applied to a multitude of situations - in different contexts of course. I'm sure you've heard of "The Sandwich Effect".

Some people will never be able to do certain things, I know this is a fact. However saying "you dumb shit, why would you want to do that?" is detrimental on so many levels that go above and beyond what that person is trying to accomplish - which I think is Latifah's point, at it's most general level. Like I said, maybe her message should be directed at everyone, and not just women.

On the other hand, it's creating a generation of UberBitches.

 

[Said1]

Wow, if I ever heard a teacher saying a variation of that I'd flip out. I think parents sometimes convey messages like that, unintentionally. Comparisons between siblings like, 'Johnny is a great writer, which Judy shines at math.' Didn't saying anything abusive, but I'll wager Johnny's writing will improve, not so much his math and vice versa for Judy.

I don't really think there's anything wrong with parents saying things like that, in the long run. On the other hand, I've heard "your sister is so much smarter than you, I never have to worry about her messing life up the way you did."

I think I mentioned that lady the other day.


Tim had a teacher who used to say to him "Then there's Tim. Good thing you'll always need people to mop the floors in your offices."

 

[Said1]

On the other hand, it's creating a generation of UberBitches.

How?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

How?

By making them feel like when someone tells them they're wrong they're trying to "bring them down" or "denigrate a woman's way of knowing", or are just "sexist pigs".

 

[Said1]

By making them feel like when someone tells them they're wrong they're trying to "bring them down" or "denigrate a woman's way of knowing", or are just "sexist pigs".

Lots of people take things out of context.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And additionally, though men are accused of thinking with their small head, I think women are even worse at separating rationality from their "pleasure crevice".

 

[Said1]

And additionally, thought men are accused of thinking with their small head, I think women are even worse at separating rationality from their "pleasure crevice".

Ya think?

:gross2:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Ya think?

:gross2:

Yes.

 

[Gunny]

Well, I guess you told me.

Anyway, I'll repeat and expand a bit more. Is there anything wrong with teaching those who haven't learned, for whatever reason, that they can do something? Some are programmed by others, from birth, not necessarily by society.

Maybe it's the "you go girl" *snap, snap* way she's presenting it that is so unappealing to many? Maybe it should be directed at people, instead of women?

ITA. That was my first thought. Self-esteem is not monopolized by gender. I see nothign wrong with a healthy promotion of self-esteem, but without creating a delusional reality where as was said already, where we have generations of people who do not have clue what to do in the face of failure.

No one truly fails until they quit. But you DO have to be capable of facing and handling adversity in order to "try and try again" instead of packing it in at the first sign of difficulty.

And I didn't know I was "telling you." Just making Saturday morning conversation.

 

[Joz]

And additionally, though men are accused of thinking with their small head, I think women are even worse at separating rationality from their "pleasure crevice".

This was a 'funny' right??? Women tend to be more emotional openly but to make a statement like that is soooo asinine on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.