D-Day Myth Feeds Trump's Militarism

[georgephillip]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

 

[harmonica]

Trump militarism....????!!!!! hahahahahhahahaha
most people don't know crap about WW2--they are NOT myths
a ridiculous OP/thread

 

[harmonica]

the US liberated France/Holland/Belgium/etc etc

 

[georgephillip]

the US liberated France/Holland/Belgium/etc etc

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

"PETER KUZNICK The Americans don’t know that the Canadians were there.

"The Americans don’t even know that the British were there.

"And if you look at the films like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, the Canadians and the British still weren’t there.

"This was the United States fighting singlehandedly to defeat Germany in the war.

"...the reality is that this was very much a joint operation; that the British and the Canadians in some ways played a greater role at Normandy than the Americans did, in terms of the number of troops, in terms of the landing craft, in terms of the number of beaches hit.

"So it’s part of the American mythology.

"It’s a crucial element of American mythology. And I’m sorry you’re trampling on it by bringing the British and the Canadians into this."

 

[harmonica]

what militarism???!!!
.....again, most people don't even know what countries fought where in the WW2
so simmer down

 

[harmonica]

the US liberated France/Holland/Belgium/etc etc

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

"PETER KUZNICK The Americans don’t know that the Canadians were there.

"The Americans don’t even know that the British were there.

"And if you look at the films like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, the Canadians and the British still weren’t there.

"This was the United States fighting singlehandedly to defeat Germany in the war.

"...the reality is that this was very much a joint operation; that the British and the Canadians in some ways played a greater role at Normandy than the Americans did, in terms of the number of troops, in terms of the landing craft, in terms of the number of beaches hit.

"So it’s part of the American mythology.

"It’s a crucial element of American mythology. And I’m sorry you’re trampling on it by bringing the British and the Canadians into this."

Saving P R was about a small American unit--not ALL of DDAY hahahhahahahahahh
hahahahhahahahahahahhaha !!!
most movies leave out a lot of crap and spin the truth.....wtheck is the problem??
you bring up Saving P R as you're evidence ???!!!!!!!??....hahahahahahhahaah

 

[BluesLegend]

Trump militarism....????!!!!! hahahahahhahahaha
most people don't know crap about WW2--they are NOT myths
a ridiculous OP/thread

The OP's TDS is off the charts what a whacky thread.

 

[Camp]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

The second front in Europe was begun on July 9, 1943, followed by an invasion of the Italian mainland on Sept 3, 1943.

 

[harmonica]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

The second front in Europe was begun on July 9, 1943, followed by an invasion of the Italian mainland on Sept 3, 1943.

not too mention North Africa that took up a LOT of German troops/supplies/etc

 

[harmonica]

plus the day and night air war against Germany which decimated the Luftwaffe

 

[Camp]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

The second front in Europe was begun on July 9, 1943, followed by an invasion of the Italian mainland on Sept 3, 1943.

not too mention North Africa that took up a LOT of German troops/supplies/etc

Ya, agreed, but I focused on Europe. Not sure why Italy gets ignored so often. Having a close relative who was a B-17 pilot who eventually became missing, I also notice the bombing campaigns also get ignored.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

The second front in Europe was begun on July 9, 1943, followed by an invasion of the Italian mainland on Sept 3, 1943.

Never mind the African Campaign. Most Americans don't even know about the early days of the War..they think that it all began with Ike and D-day---victory after victory. They don't remember Kassarine Pass at all.

Yes, The Russians took it on the chin..after Hitler reneged on his deal with Stalin. But--there WAS a deal. Russia would have been fine with Hitler doing whatever..as long as he kept it out of Russia. So..to some extent, Stalin reaped what he sowed.

The Russian counter-offensives were fueled by American resource. I take nothing away from the Russian sacrifice--but let it be known that without American support...Russia probably would have lost--Britain also..for that matter.

"The Red Army used a large number of lend-lease tanks and other armoured vehicles from the USA, Great Britain and Canada.
A total of 22,800 armoured vehicles were delivered to the Red Army during World War II, of which 1,981 were lost in dangerous Arctic convoys. These deliveries represented about 20 percent of the total number of armoured vehicles produced by Russia during the war. Specifically, this was 16 per cent of Russian main battle tanks, 12 per cent of Russian self-propelled gun carriages and tank destroyers, and 100 per cent of Russian infantry fighting vehicles, as Russia did not manufacture any armoured infantry fighting vehicles during the Second World War.

The first deliveries of tanks took place already in 1941, namely 487 Matilda II tanks, Valentine and Tetrarch from UK as well as 182 M3A1 Stuart and medium tanks M3 Lee from the USA.
In 1942 Britain delivered another 2,487 tanks and the USA 3,023. The first Russian units equipped with these lend-lease tanks went into action with Valentine and Matilda tanks at Staraya Russia and in the Valdai area in December 1941 and January 1942.

At the beginning of 1943 there were 1,023 lend-lease tanks in Russian units, although 6,179 had been delivered since 1941. In the years 1944 and 1945, with the large access of American M4A2 Sherman, some Tank Corps and Mechanized Corps were equipped exclusively with this tank type. The M4A2 Sherman was not as brilliant a design as the Russian T-34 tank, but in the subsequent conflicts in Korea and the Middle East the US tank was – despite the superiority of the T-34 on paper – always the winner between the two.
Of much more decisive importance for Russian warfare, however, were the deliveries of motor vehicles, especially from the United States. During the Second World War, Russia built only 343,624 cars and trucks, since the major automobile manufacturers, such as the GAZ factories, were used to manufacture armoured combat vehicles. The USA alone supplied the Russians with 501,660 tactical wheeled and tracked vehicles, including 77,972 Jeeps, 151,053 1.5 t trucks and 200,622 2.5 t trucks."

Lend-Lease tanks and aircrafts

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/battle-of-the-kasserine-pass

 

[harmonica]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

The second front in Europe was begun on July 9, 1943, followed by an invasion of the Italian mainland on Sept 3, 1943.

not too mention North Africa that took up a LOT of German troops/supplies/etc

Ya, agreed, but I focused on Europe. Not sure why Italy gets ignored so often. Having a close relative who was a B-17 pilot who eventually became missing, I also notice the bombing campaigns also get ignored.

Clark's army got into Rome right before DDay--so that got forgotten real fast
all the US/Brit action was in Italy --then DDay--the big one

 

[Ambivalent1]

the US liberated France/Holland/Belgium/etc etc

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

"PETER KUZNICK The Americans don’t know that the Canadians were there.

"The Americans don’t even know that the British were there.

"And if you look at the films like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, the Canadians and the British still weren’t there.

"This was the United States fighting singlehandedly to defeat Germany in the war.

"...the reality is that this was very much a joint operation; that the British and the Canadians in some ways played a greater role at Normandy than the Americans did, in terms of the number of troops, in terms of the landing craft, in terms of the number of beaches hit.

"So it’s part of the American mythology.

"It’s a crucial element of American mythology. And I’m sorry you’re trampling on it by bringing the British and the Canadians into this."

You really want to try and make the point that the American's did NOT know that the Canadians and the British were targeting Gold, Juno and Sword? You're a bright one aren't you?

 

[harmonica]

....another whiner like Tommy T complaining the Russians were not invited to the DDay celebrations
..those POOR Russians don't get any credit

 

[Likkmee]

what militarism???!!!
.....again, most people don't even know what countries fought where in the WW2
so simmer down

Here's a hint. The location of Department of Offence facilities
List of United States military bases - Wikipedia

 

[Likkmee]

OH Look The missing WMD's !
Umatilla Chemical Depot - Wikipedia

 

[Camp]

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

The second front in Europe was begun on July 9, 1943, followed by an invasion of the Italian mainland on Sept 3, 1943.

Never mind the African Campaign. Most Americans don't even know about the early days of the War..they think that it all began with Ike and D-day---victory after victory. They don't remember Kassarine Pass at all.

Yes, The Russians took it on the chin..after Hitler reneged on his deal with Stalin. But--there WAS a deal. Russia would have been fine with Hitler doing whatever..as long as he kept it out of Russia. So..to some extent, Stalin reaped what he sowed.

The Russian counter-offensives were fueled by American resource. I take nothing away from the Russian sacrifice--but let it be known that without American support...Russia probably would have lost--Britain also..for that matter.

"The Red Army used a large number of lend-lease tanks and other armoured vehicles from the USA, Great Britain and Canada.
A total of 22,800 armoured vehicles were delivered to the Red Army during World War II, of which 1,981 were lost in dangerous Arctic convoys. These deliveries represented about 20 percent of the total number of armoured vehicles produced by Russia during the war. Specifically, this was 16 per cent of Russian main battle tanks, 12 per cent of Russian self-propelled gun carriages and tank destroyers, and 100 per cent of Russian infantry fighting vehicles, as Russia did not manufacture any armoured infantry fighting vehicles during the Second World War.

The first deliveries of tanks took place already in 1941, namely 487 Matilda II tanks, Valentine and Tetrarch from UK as well as 182 M3A1 Stuart and medium tanks M3 Lee from the USA.
In 1942 Britain delivered another 2,487 tanks and the USA 3,023. The first Russian units equipped with these lend-lease tanks went into action with Valentine and Matilda tanks at Staraya Russia and in the Valdai area in December 1941 and January 1942.

At the beginning of 1943 there were 1,023 lend-lease tanks in Russian units, although 6,179 had been delivered since 1941. In the years 1944 and 1945, with the large access of American M4A2 Sherman, some Tank Corps and Mechanized Corps were equipped exclusively with this tank type. The M4A2 Sherman was not as brilliant a design as the Russian T-34 tank, but in the subsequent conflicts in Korea and the Middle East the US tank was – despite the superiority of the T-34 on paper – always the winner between the two.
Of much more decisive importance for Russian warfare, however, were the deliveries of motor vehicles, especially from the United States. During the Second World War, Russia built only 343,624 cars and trucks, since the major automobile manufacturers, such as the GAZ factories, were used to manufacture armoured combat vehicles. The USA alone supplied the Russians with 501,660 tactical wheeled and tracked vehicles, including 77,972 Jeeps, 151,053 1.5 t trucks and 200,622 2.5 t trucks."

Lend-Lease tanks and aircrafts

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/battle-of-the-kasserine-pass

Another phase of American involvement and sacrifice of WWII, all the Americans who were lost at sea transporting those supplies and equipment to Russia. My father in law served on Liberty Ships. Never really got recognized for his service. Thankfully, he survived and came home or my first wife would not have been born.

 

[Edgetho]

Russia did most of the fighting and dying in WWII Europe. There's no denying that.

But it was also Russia that trusted Hitler so much, they became his Ally.

For the first two years of WWII, Russia and Hitler were butthole buddies.

During that time, Stalin pulled back most of his forces from his Western Frontier and left it open for Hitler to invade.

He did.

Also, when Hitler, with Stalin's help, were kicking the shit out of France and England nobody gave a flying fuck. Nobody in this Country anyway.

Those Battleships we had? Mostly built long before WWII?

They weren't built to fight Germany or Japan. They were built for a War with England or France.

Most of America thought it was great that Germany and Russia were stomping the shit out of England and France. The two greatest Imperial Powers of the time. By far.

FDR was more interested in dismantling the British Empire than he was in defeating German anyway. Germany was a bad joke to the US. No threat at all. None.

We'd fought two Wars with Britain and Britain also helped the South during the Civil War.

Disjointed post. Too much ground to cover, too little time. sorry

But without American support in 1941, without us sending Russia MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of TONNES of supplies, tens of thousands of trucks, thousands of tanks and aircraft, millions of tonnes of artillery/mortar shells and bombs, thousands of artillery guns, tens of thousands of mortars, millions of gallons of fuel.....

Germany would have walked through Russia like they were walking to a Church Social.

Wars are fought with machines much more than they are with Men these last 120 years or so

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

OH Look The missing WMD's !
Umatilla Chemical Depot - Wikipedia

You a funny guy. That facility is closed. Not that the US lacks for WMD's. LOL!