Crusades?

[Mortimer]

At school I learned that the Crusades were "evil" and meant plunder and murder and were "intolerant" or Islamophobic etc. I also learned that Islam was peaceful and more tolerant than Christianity, the golden flower of Islam, science, progress, tolerance. But since the 9/11 war on terror I have come to realize that the Crusades were proclaimed very late, after Islam had already conquered half the world and forced Islam. In fact, they were used for defense. I also know now that Islam is not tolerant, and that Islam is at least as warlike and is out for conquest.

That's why I like the Crusaders now. Completely different from what I learned at school and what I believed at the time.

 

[Oddball]

 

[Mortimer]

Interesting: The Serbian uprising gave the roma civil rights not the ottomans, I learned that the Ottomans were very tolerant to their subjects much more tolerant then Europeans. But it seems Serbs were more tolerant. It was also the Serbs who ended Slavery.


Serbian Roma Soldiers, 1912–1918 - Cogitatio Presshttps://www.cogitatiopress.com › article › download

The Roma as Serbian combatants were mentioned in
both of the Serbian uprisings organized in the 19th
century (in 1804–1813 and in 1815). For example, the
contemporary Vuk Stefanovic Karadžić wrote that “the
Gypsies had their own commander during the uprising”
(Acković, 2009, p. 91). In addition, the famous Serbian
poet, Sima Milutinović Sarajlija, wrote about the heroism of the Roma combatants. The first Serbian uprising
brought the Roma civil rights recognition, equality before the courts, freedom of religion, respect for customs
and traditions as well as land heritage. However, these
measures disappeared with the collapse of the Serbian
insurgency. The Roma were offered similar rights after
the second Serbian uprising, in 1815. However, it appears that this time the reforms did not bring palpable results. The historian Vladimir Stojančević explained
this as the result of a weaker Roma presence in the
rebel forces and its leadership than was the case in
the previous uprising (Jakšić & Bašić, 2005, pp. 20–21).
The Roma reappeared as Serbian fighters during the
turbulence of 1848. They were part of the forces sent
from the Serbian Principality to Serbs living in Southern
Hungary. Atanasije-Tasa Ivanović from the Serbian town
of Jagodina, the man responsible for tax collection from
the Serbian Roma, was ordered to form an exclusively
Roma outfit:
With 850 skilful Gypsies, along with zurlas and drums,
he continued during the freezing cold in December
1848. There were few of the Jagodina Gypsies, up
to 300, but others from Kragujevac, Pozarevac joined
them along the way, following Tasa’s order, which had
to be executed unconditionally. Sabac, Smederevo
and other places. There were up to 900 of them near
Višnjica on the Danube. It was an unusual and very
colourful army: One group (from Jagodina) wore the
ordinary clothes, with pistols and holsters, curved
sabres; others had more beautiful, colourful garbs
with a scarf around their heads, with large belts, in
which the guns were kept, together with the sharp
knives, a whip with a lead top, and with rifles on their
shoulders; on their feet they wore cavalry boots with
spurs; their banners had various flags. (Cvetić, 1910,
pp. 38–43)
Once across the Danube, fierce fighting ensued with
the Hungarian army near the town of Arad. It has been
recorded that 15 of the Serbian Roma soldiers were killed
in this battle (Cvetić, 1910, pp. 38–43).
In 1883, a standing army with compulsory military
service was introduced in the Kingdom of Serbia. This
was one of many measures aimed at modernizing the
state which had gained its independence in 1878. How
did the Roma fit into this system, which was based on
state bureaucracy and, above all, on the need for accurate addresses and years of birth? At first, the Serbian
authorities were tolerant and aware that a number of
Roma were clearly beyond the army’s reach. For the time
being only those Roma with permanent addresses and
valid documents were called up. However, the state decided to recruit also the so-called ‘wandering Roma.’ In
October 1891, the Serbian War Ministry made a decision
that would significantly affect the way of life of the Roma
in Serbia. It was a direct and dramatic interference of the
state in the traditional way of life of native Roma:

 

[DudleySmith]

Yes, the Crusades were a reaction to Arabs and Muslims and their Jewish allies' invasions of Spain, Italy, Greece, Malta, etc., under constant attacks and piracy.

 

[toobfreak]

But since the 9/11 war on terror I have come to realize that the Crusades were proclaimed very late, after Islam had already conquered half the world and forced Islam. In fact, they were used for defense.

You got that right, Bub. It was Islam which had spread wide and far trying to conquer much of Europe that finally caused the rise up of the Crusades in order to beat the heathens back to where they came from otherwise we would all be kneeling on prayer rugs right now facing Mecca with our asses in the air.

 

[DudleySmith]

When the Ottomans conquered southern Europe they would force families to turn their first sons over to the state and take them to Turkey, and raise them as Muslim killers, probably after repeatedly raping them when they were children. They still are a blight on humanity.

 

[cnm]

Crusades - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

​

From 1147, campaigns in Northern Europe against pagan tribes were considered crusades. In 1199, Pope Innocent III began the practice of proclaiming political crusades against Christian heretics. In the 13th century, crusading was used against the Cathars in Languedoc and against Bosnia; this practice continued against the Waldensians in Savoy and the Hussites in Bohemia in the 15th century and against Protestants in the 16th.​

 

[cnm]

When the Ottomans conquered southern Europe they would force families to turn their first sons over to the state and take them to Turkey, and raise them as Muslim killers, probably after repeatedly raping them when they were children. They still are a blight on humanity.

Rape during the Bosnian War - Wikipedia​

​

Rape in the Bosnian war, was used as a "weapon of war", which affected the communal consciousness of general Bosnian public. As Pierre Bayard puts it, "n Bosnia the rapes not only accompanied the advance of the Serbian armies, they were also the result of a concerted policy of cultural eradication ."​

 

[cnm]

Yeah, I'd say Mort could certainly consider himself a Crusader...

 

[DudleySmith]

Yeah, I'd say Mort could certainly consider himself a Crusader...

And we can say you're just a dumb troll with no points to make other than you can parrot commie deviant propaganda defending Islamo-Nazism. Just for starters, the Cathars were left alone for around a hundred years, until they started murdering priests.

 

[cnm]

'Commie'. What a hoot. McCarthy did not tail gun in vain.

'Islamo-Nazism'! Ou sont les Neocons d'antan?

A dinosaur is screeching for its American Century.

 

[cnm]

Your history seems somewhat alternate, as well. No surprises there.

​

Cathars

The Cathars (also known as Cathari from the Greek Katharoi for “pure ones”) were a dualist medieval religious sect of Southern France which flourished in the 12th century CE and challenged...

www.worldhistory.org

​

In 1208 CE, Pope Innocent III (served 1198-1216 CE) sent the lawyer-monk Pierre de Castelnau to Southern France to enlist the aid of Raymond VI, Count of Toulouse (r. 1194-1222 CE) in suppressing the heresy. Raymond was not only an ardent protector and supporter of the Cathars but also the bishop of the order in Toulouse. He refused to cooperate with the pope's legate and sent him away; Castelnau was later found murdered.​

​

Pope Innocent then called for a crusade against Southern France, promising the nobles of the north that they could keep all the rich lands and booty of their southern neighbors after the Cathars had been killed and their supporters crushed. The northern nobles were only too happy to comply with the pope's holy wishes and the Albigensian Crusade was launched in 1209 CE.​

​

Since the majority of Cathars were women, it was mainly women and children who were massacred in the crusade, but often whole towns went up in flames and all the citizenry killed. ​

​

At the siege-turned-massacre of the town of Beziers, when Arnaud-Amaury (the Cistercian monk commanding the Church's forces) was asked how to tell the difference between a heretic and a believer, he said, “Kill them all, the Lord knows who are His” (Bryson & Movsesian, 12). According to Church documents, 20,000 heretics were slaughtered in and around Beziers and the town burned to the ground.​

 

[eagle1462010]

The Crusades were a reaction to Invasion by Islam. Convert or die. The Hammer stopped their take over of all of Europe and then Europe finally drove the invaders back in the Crusades......Had they stayed unified the Crusades would have worked but Feudalism kept them at each others throats instead....And such is history.

 

[Mortimer]

Yeah, I'd say Mort could certainly consider himself a Crusader...

Give me 20... snowflake

 

[DudleySmith]

Your history seems somewhat alternate, as well. No surprises there.

​

Cathars

The Cathars (also known as Cathari from the Greek Katharoi for “pure ones”) were a dualist medieval religious sect of Southern France which flourished in the 12th century CE and challenged...

www.worldhistory.org

​

In 1208 CE, Pope Innocent III (served 1198-1216 CE) sent the lawyer-monk Pierre de Castelnau to Southern France to enlist the aid of Raymond VI, Count of Toulouse (r. 1194-1222 CE) in suppressing the heresy. Raymond was not only an ardent protector and supporter of the Cathars but also the bishop of the order in Toulouse. He refused to cooperate with the pope's legate and sent him away; Castelnau was later found murdered.​

​

Pope Innocent then called for a crusade against Southern France, promising the nobles of the north that they could keep all the rich lands and booty of their southern neighbors after the Cathars had been killed and their supporters crushed. The northern nobles were only too happy to comply with the pope's holy wishes and the Albigensian Crusade was launched in 1209 CE.​

​

Since the majority of Cathars were women, it was mainly women and children who were massacred in the crusade, but often whole towns went up in flames and all the citizenry killed. ​

​

At the siege-turned-massacre of the town of Beziers, when Arnaud-Amaury (the Cistercian monk commanding the Church's forces) was asked how to tell the difference between a heretic and a believer, he said, “Kill them all, the Lord knows who are His” (Bryson & Movsesian, 12). According to Church documents, 20,000 heretics were slaughtered in and around Beziers and the town burned to the ground.​

My history is fine, while yours is just the typical anti-Catholic Protestant propaganda, and also leaves out the fact that they atracted a response because of the murders of three priests, along with their thieving and refusal to pay rents.

 

[eagle1462010]

In regards to the Ottoman Empire. They were brutal and controlled the entire region of the Middle East for a long time. Ending with WWI after the Armenian Genocide. They used the Kurds..........yes present day Kurds to slaughter Armenians. They killed every man woman and child and even played soccer with their head.

Look it up.

 

[DudleySmith]

'Commie'. What a hoot. McCarthy did not tail gun in vain.

'Islamo-Nazism'! Ou sont les Neocons d'antan?

A dinosaur is screeching for its American Century.

Why are you commies so upset about being called commies? You should be proud of that, along with your assorted sexual fetishes that cause you to spam threads in the Religion Forum with idiot web page links to propoganda sites written by 6th graders.

 

[eagle1462010]

A very old movie during the time of WWI and why the world wanted to rip the Ottomans a new asshole.

Before ‘Ravished Armenia’…

By Vicken Babkenian When the American-made motion picture Ravished Armenia was released in 1919, it became the first film to tell the story of the World War I Armenian Genocide through the eyes of a survivor, Aurora Mardiganian. Directed by Oscar Apfel and produced by early film pioneer Colonel...

horizonweekly.ca

 

[Stann]

At school I learned that the Crusades were "evil" and meant plunder and murder and were "intolerant" or Islamophobic etc. I also learned that Islam was peaceful and more tolerant than Christianity, the golden flower of Islam, science, progress, tolerance. But since the 9/11 war on terror I have come to realize that the Crusades were proclaimed very late, after Islam had already conquered half the world and forced Islam. In fact, they were used for defense. I also know now that Islam is not tolerant, and that Islam is at least as warlike and is out for conquest.

That's why I like the Crusaders now. Completely different from what I learned at school and what I believed at the time.

When the crusaders first plundered Jerusalem they murdered everyone Muslims, Jews even Christians. Then they ravaged all the temples and holy places. The crusades ultimately failed because they were corrupt to begin with.

 

[eagle1462010]

When the crusaders first plundered Jerusalem they murdered everyone Muslims, Jews even Christians. Then they ravaged all the temples and holy places. The crusades ultimately failed because they were corrupt to begin with.

Given from a perspective of today and not then. Back then Wars were to the death.............They were VERY BRUTAL......and it was the norm.

Even in the times of WWI the Ottomans versus the Armenians.......they were at War.......They marched whole families out into the desert and slaughtered over a million people and played football with their heads......War is brutal and even more brutal back then.

The Ottomans held so much territory not because they were nice.......If a village rose against them..........They would slaughter the entire village as a lesson to anyone else who dared to oppose them. The Middle East is a giant Tomb Stone of War in the sand box.