CRT and Whiteness for Elementary Students.

[Meister]

You don't know what CRT is.

It's obvious that you don't know what it is.

 

[Coyote]

Sustaining racism or acknowledging we still have problems to work through? Case in point, what Texas (a state with a market big enough to effect the textbook trend nationally)…and not a peep of outrage from the right.

For the OP, I agree that there is stuff there that goes too far, as in your example. Don’t disagree with that. But I disagree we should focus only on what is happening elsewhere in the world. This is K12 after all (though some state legislatures are attempting to impose this on higher ed). So if you don’t talk about racism here how are they going to make sense of real life events going on around them? Just don’t discuss it?

…so I guess I have to ask, is your solution to teaching and understanding racism and race in America to teach what what is happening outside of America?

 

[IM2]

It's obvious that you don't know what it is.

I do. I read the book by Derrick Bell. More than once. You guys don't even have the first clue. You guys suffer from white fragility and can't handle the truth.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I do. I read the book by Derrick Bell. More than once. You guys don't even have the first clue. You guys suffer from white fragility and can't handle the truth.

Actually,your skin color gives you a systematic advantage over all other groups, and if you aren't taking advantage of the opportunities your skin color provides, that is nobody's fault but your own.

 

[Unkotare]

Say this guy's name.. Enes Kanter. Had to look it up.....

Not a Celtics fan, I presume?

 

[flacaltenn]

What you say is not happening in our schools.

Of course it is. You didn't read any of the links or quoted material.. Because it would make your head explode in cognitive dissonance. Elementary schools are taking the suggestions of their NEA and AFT unions and the Nat. School Library Assoc which caused this turdish "kids book" to be #60 on the best-selling childrens book in 2021.

Might not show in publicly available curriculum guides, but it's a favorite at 1st grade story time in the library.. OR when the teacher just feels the urge to preach woke hip white leftist trash that got a good review from the NY Times..

 

[flacaltenn]

No we weren't. Whites like you love to lie to yourselves about this nations problems with race. Everything you say here is wrong but thats par for the course for you. America has always had this problafm and it stays this way because whites like you refuse to listen.

We've "always had this problem"... Do you mean allowing white teachers to teach black kids? Like Terry McCallough ragged on about over the weekend before the election? And how black students cant thrive under white teachers?

OR do you mean that a 2nd grader being told he's OPPRESSED and that white kid NEXT to him is the OPPRESSOR -- and in your words -- ITS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY..

OR "its always been that way" meaning you still have a master and only a bunkhouse with no chance to leave the plantation.

I'm confused as to how "ITS ALWAYS BEEN".. And whether I need to personally come and emancipate you..

 

[flacaltenn]

Time after time Asians are entering on the H1B Visa program.

Yeah.. So what? It that your example of "yellow privilege"? LOL..

Their skills are what get them H1B visas.. Not that I wouldn't rather have 1000s of BLACK young engineers and researchers who were BORN here to take those jobs.. Got ANY who haven't been lured into getting Diversity/Inclusion/Equity degrees instead because math and science and history are all racist?

Not my fault.. I work with my professional orgs to TRY and move those kids to STEM studies..

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Their skills are what get them H1B visas..

and their skills are a product of their valuing education and hard work.

Asians do not call their fellow Asians sell outs to the white man for these traits. Only blacks do.

 

[flacaltenn]

Sustaining racism or acknowledging we still have problems to work through? Case in point, what Texas (a state with a market big enough to effect the textbook trend nationally)…and not a peep of outrage from the right.

Just more of a barrage of bullshit to counter what happens in the Big Blue Woking states. It's identical to the march towards the edge in abortion battles. Where the NY Legislature stands and cheers the passage of an infant euthanasia bill up to the moment of birth because some Red state passed a "heart beat" bill.. WHAT WAR you think is gonna END because of that madness?

I'm still not convinced that Texas became "slavery deniers".. My bet is -- your sources are blowing this out of their asses..

For the OP, I agree that there is stuff there that goes too far, as in your example. Don’t disagree with that. But I disagree we should focus only on what is happening elsewhere in the world

What is happening HERE that is WORSE or even approaching ACTUAL SLAVERY?

This is K12 after all (though some state legislatures are attempting to impose this on higher ed). So if you don’t talk about racism here how are they going to make sense of real life events going on around them? Just don’t discuss it?

We're in this thread to CONVINCE YOU and Democrats that we should be talking about ACTUAL RACISM here at home.. Not about how kids are doomed from birth to be either oppressors or the oppressed. Greg Gutfield had a remarkably insightful line today.. He said -- "If the Dems WIN -- it's because of racism. And if the Dems LOSE it's because of racism"... THIS is what I've been telling our bud IM2 for years. WHAT IS SAID to be racism in America is ACTUALLY NOT tiki torch racism or even subtle semi-concious racism -- 80% of what IM2 produces as historical evidence is ACTUALLY decades long political disagreements in POLITICS about differences in opinions on the size, scope, and role of government.

That's why "defunding the police" was a losing issue for the left and why CRT will be another losing issue for them.. It's MOSTLY political differences if Larry Elder, the newly elected black woman AG in Virginia and HUNDREDS of high profile black conservatives, many serving in Congress, have ALL been called racists and white supremacists..

You KNOW this is true..

 

[IM2]

Of course it is. You didn't read any of the links or quoted material.. Because it would make your explode in cognitive dissonance. Elementary schools are taking the suggestions of their NEA and AFT unions and the Nat. School Library Assoc which caused this turdish "kids book" to be #60 on the best-selling childrens book in 2021.

Might not show in publically available curriculum guides, but it's a favorite at 1st grade story time in the library.. OR when the teacher just feels the urge to preach woke hip white leftist trash..

No flacaltenn it wouldn't. Unlike you, I know what CRT is. It is a theory based on a set of complex ideas regarding how our legal system pertains to race. No grade school, middle school or high school kid unless they are in AP would probably be able to look at the vasrious issues that the theory breaks down and understand it. The 5th grade teacher cannot teach it. Teaching about racism is not CRT and it's not something that can be read at story hour.

The reality of our history is what it is. You grew up being taught CWST. That was not the complete story and I don't feel sorry for you whining white right wingers after going K-12 learning that the only thing blacks did was get enslaved and then freed due to the benevolence of whites. So suck it up snowflake.

You are just another idiot right winger Tom Nichols describes in his book, "The Death of Expertise."

 

[IM2]

Just more of a barrage of bullshit to counter what happens in the Big Blue Woking states. It's identical to the march towards the edge in abortion battles. Where the NY Legislature stands and cheers the passage of an infant euthanasia bill up to the moment of birth because some Red state passed a "heart beat" bill.. WHAT WAR you think is gonna END because of that madness?

I'm still not convinced that Texas became "slavery deniers".. My bet is -- your sources are blowing this out of their asses..



What is happening HERE that is WORSE or even approaching ACTUAL SLAVERY?


We're in this thread to CONVINCE YOU and Democrats that we should be talking about ACTUAL RACISM here at home.. Not about how kids are doomed from birth to be either oppressors or the oppressed. Greg Gutfield had a remarkably insightful line today.. He said -- "If the Dems WIN -- it's because of racism. And if the Dems LOSE it's because of racism"... THIS is what I've been telling our bud IM2 for years. WHAT IS SAID to be racism in America is ACTUALLY NOT tiki torch racism or even subtle semi-concious racism -- 80% of what IM2 produces as historical evidence is ACTUALLY decades long political disagreements in POLITICS about differences in opinions on the size, scope, and role of government.

That's why "defunding the police" was a losing issue for the left and why CRT will be another losing issue for them.. It's MOSTLY political differences if Larry Elder, the newly elected black woman AG in Virginia and HUNDREDS of high profile black conservatives, many serving in Congress, have ALL been called racists and white supremacists..

You KNOW this is true..

What I mostly have posted is past policies that have impacted us today. Whites like you have always tried denying thhe problem. What is racism today is racism. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with the motherfucking size of government. Nothing teaches kids are doomed but the CWST getting taught in schools right now.

Read this and learn something.

"A Black Mouth Moving’ That ‘Justifies and Legitimates’ White Supremacy"​

“What Republicans are now doing is they basically demand credit any time any of them ever voted for anybody Black or if there’s a Black guy on the Supreme Court that’s conservative,” said Reid. “Any Black conservative is supposedly or the Black president having ever been elected, right? The fact that he was elected, period, means there’s no racism.”

She continued, “The two choices voters had in Virginia were a Black woman who shares my daughter’s name and Jamaican heritage, and an Afro-Latina who is part Lebanese. So you had a choice of two Brown/Black people and you picked one of them. Do you get credit? Do you get special credit? It’s like I had ice cream or cake adds two options, but I want credit for lowering my calorie count because I picked ice cream. You had two choices and they were both Black!”

Dyson agreed with Reid’s assessment:

He added, “If you tell Black people, ‘Look, I support a Negro. Look! There is a person of color that I am in favor of,’ and that person of color happens to undermine and undercut and subvert the very principles about which we are concerned, you do yourself no service by pointing to them as an example of your racial progressivism.”

‘A Black Mouth Moving’ That ‘Justifies and Legitimates’ White Supremacy: MSNBC Guest Says Winsome Sears Win Doesn’t Make GOP Racially Progressive

www.msn.com

This is exactly what you conservatives do. You vote for somebody black who validates your racism then think the you can tell us how you're not a racist because you voted for someone black. Then you are dumfounded when we show our displeasure with them.

 

[flacaltenn]

No flacaltenn it wouldn't. Unlike you, I know what CRT is. It is a theory based on a set of complex ideas regarding how our legal system pertains to race.

Actually, I'm gonna educate you here. CRT DID spawn out of "Critical legal theory" as it's predecessor, but it was generalized to ALL AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS.. Not just the law and the courts.. AND CLegalTheory did not copy the white supremacist method of PERSONAL DEGRADATION applied to white people who are as inherently racist as all their institutions and history are.

And the CLegalTheory met with a similar "lukewarm" peer review because it ALSO was fraught with logical errors and unsupported assertions about EVERY court and EVERY law in the country..

No grade school, middle school or high school kid unless they are in AP would probably be able to look at the vasrious issues that the theory breaks down and understand it.

Elementary school kids cant really understand a lot of complex issues, but you can still pass the vital parts on in Children's book like the one I showed in the OPost. For crying out loud, Grimms Fairy Tales are really Civics lessons -- aren't they? Or are they too racist for the black neighborhood.

That was not the complete story and I don't feel sorry for you whining white right wingers after going K-12 learning that the only thing blacks did was get enslaved and then freed due to the benevolence of whites.

It was kinda like that.. Except the part where it was about the benevolence of whites. WHITES (and blacks) DIED in a big huge war. Wasn't a benevelent war was it? A President got assassinated and STILL whites fought among themselves about Reconstruction. Another product of POLITICS -- not racism.

Besides before I turned 17, i spent 2 summers volunteering for HeadStart and got my head straight about what you call "white privilege" WITHOUT your help.. First year, they set up this lovely campus on the all white Florida beachside and NO black kids showed up.. We NEEDED black kids to validate how woke we were back then.. So the adults found out that black parents were embarrassed about sending their kids over to whiteyland without the proper clothes. So we got our asses in gear and launched a massive shoe and clothing drive. AND THEN we got our "underprivileged" black kids to validate our goodness.

See -- If you can't SELL CRT to clear thinking adults -- you GOT to go after white and dark kids when they're very young. BEFORE they learn for THEMSELVES about what white privilege is all about.. SO YOU and the other marxist fanatics can tell them they are DAMNED to ALWAYS be the oppressors.. Until they find THEMSELVES and figure it out on their own without being irretrievable sinners and racists.

 

[flacaltenn]

“What Republicans are now doing is they basically demand credit any time any of them ever voted for anybody Black or if there’s a Black guy on the Supreme Court that’s conservative,” said Reid. “Any Black conservative is supposedly or the Black president having ever been elected, right? The fact that he was elected, period, means there’s no racism.”

Actually rational white people are spending MOST of their time SUPPORTING AND FUNDING these politicly brilliant people. And THEN -- we have to PROTECT THEM from you.. Because as Biden told you -- You're not black if you're not a Democrat..

It;s mostly politics. Probably 80% of what you CALL systemic racism.. Because black americans have grown addicted to bigger and more muscular govt than the rest of us.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Of course there's only so much "theory" you can teach to 8 - 12 yr olds. But that won't stop some dedicated prejudicial black authors from condensing the elements of CRT and whiteness down to their basic elements and weaving a "storyline" into it..

From a listing at Barnes & Noble with the industry reviews ---
Not My Idea
Children's Book
60th in book sales for children

An honest explanation about how power and privilege factor into the lives of white children, at the expense of other groups, and how they can help seek justice. —THE NEW YORK TIMES
**A WHITE RAVEN 2019 SELECTION**

NAMED ONE OF SCHOOL LIBRARY JOURNAL'S BEST BOOKS OF 2018

Not My Idea: A Book About Whiteness is a picture book about racism and racial justice, inviting white children and parents to become curious about racism, accept that it's real, and cultivate justice.

This book does a phenomenal job of explaining how power and privilege affect us from birth, and how we can educate ourselves...Not My Idea is an incredibly important book, one that we should all be using as a catalyst for our anti-racist education. —THE TINY ACTIVIST

Quite frankly, the first book I’ve seen that provides an honest explanation for kids about the state of race in America today. —ELIZABETH BIRD, librarian

“It’s that exact mix of true-to-life humor and unflinching honesty that makes Higginbotham’s book work so well…”—PUBLISHERS WEEKLY (*Starred Review)
A much-needed title that provides a strong foundation for critical discussions of white people and racism, particularly for young audiences. Recommended for all collections. —SCHOOL LIBRARY JOURNAL (*Starred Review)

A necessary children's book about whiteness, white supremacy, and resistance… Important, accessible, needed. —KIRKUS REVIEWS

A timely story that addresses racism, civic responsibility, and the concept of whiteness. —FOREWORD REVIEWS

For white folks who aren’t sure how to talk to their kids about race, this book is the perfect beginning. —O MAGAZINE

About the Author
ANASTASIA HIGGINBOTHAM is the author and illustrator of Divorce Is the Worst, Death Is Stupid, and Tell Me About Sex, Grandma—all part of the Ordinary Terrible Things series. She lives in Brooklyn.
Librarians love her, but not as much as she loves them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Best pages of this work.. The DEVIL makes a white kid sign the contract.

View attachment 560130


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More than 24 public schools push kids book with 'whiteness' contract

A private Manhattan elementary school which charges $55,000-a-year tuition is among dozens of schools across the US teaching from children's book that features a shadowy devil figure that offers the reader a 'whiteness contract.'

Rufo says the book, 'traffics in the noxious principles of race essentialism, collective guilt and anti-whiteness.'

Also according to the book: 'Skin color makes a difference in how the world sees you and in how you see the world,' and 'your skin color affects the most ordinary daily experiences.'

The suit alleges Illinois' Evanston-Skokie district was treating students and employees differently based on race.

In one instance, for example, suit says the district asked teachers to take part in racially segregated 'affinity groups' for an exercise.

It also alleges that teachers were forced to undergo 'antiracist training,' and uses the teaching of Not My Idea in the district as one of the examples of ways the district is discriminating against white people.

This is how I WISH this thread will go.. It's a debate covered in the Atlantic between the AUTHOR and a lefty staff writer for the Atlantic who disagrees with the author's way of introducing young children to the race issue.. It's CIVIL and CORDIAL and useful.. Just like the members of USMB are use to hearing.. I've heavily snipped it. Go READ IT before you comment..

‘Nobody Wants White Kids to Feel Bad About Their Race’

The children’s-book author Anastasia Higginbotham and I disagree about how to teach young Americans about police killings and racism.

www.theatlantic.com

Clearly we had deep disagreements over an issue families and educators all over America are grappling with: What exactly should we teach children about race, police killings, and the relationship between the two? I suggested to Higginbotham that we air our differences through an email exchange, and she agreed.

Read: How to talk to kids about racism and police

She argues that, at the earliest possible age, white kids should be taught to identify whiteness as the root of racial injustice so that they can reject the pervasive racism that they would otherwise embody. I think her account of what causes police killings is too monocausal and that her zeal for uprooting racism sometimes strays into overgeneralization based in racial stereotyping. Regardless, her message that kids can choose to reject racism is laudable, and many school districts find it valuable. What follows is an edited and condensed version of our discussion.

Higginbotham: The book I made teaches young children about whiteness—it is not about police brutality. The problem in the book is not that police kill innocent people; it’s that the child’s white family refuses to discuss the significance of these killings with the child, who is left alone in confusion and self-doubt. No matter the crisis, my focus is on growing up by knowing yourself and your world. My books guide a child toward the resources of their own instincts and imagination, as well as family members who can offer support. In Not My Idea, white family members turn away from the child’s pain in the face of racist violence, and so my book points them to the library.

You call my assertion that violent white supremacy is embedded into all of our systems too “complex” for children to evaluate. But racism is not complex; the human beings who perpetuate it are. I have perpetuated racism without believing in it—that is complicated. Racism itself is ridiculous. Elevating a people’s worthiness, morality, intelligence, cleanliness, aptitude, and dignity based on skin tone—that is a terrible idea, it was not my idea, and I will spend my life revealing and unlearning that nonsense and making sure kids can, too, as young as possible.

You write, “Many systems in America are clearly neither violent nor white supremacist.” But that’s not how whiteness works. Any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it because it is embedded in us. Do I kill people? No. Does my call to 911? It might. So long as we give the lies and distortions of whiteness space inside our bodies and minds, we are its hosts. We bring it into every room, interaction, classroom, and child we raise unprepared to question it.

You write, “Many systems in America are clearly neither violent nor white supremacist.” But that’s not how whiteness works. Any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it because it is embedded in us. Do I kill people? No. Does my call to 911? It might. So long as we give the lies and distortions of whiteness space inside our bodies and minds, we are its hosts. We bring it into every room, interaction, classroom, and child we raise unprepared to question it.

If it’s a theory, why am I not allowed to question it?

 

[flacaltenn]

said Reid. “Any Black conservative is supposedly or the Black president having ever been elected, right? The fact that he was elected, period, means there’s no racism.”

Here is a prime example of how these racial dividers roll LOGIC and REASON free..

The "fact that he was elected" doesn't LOGICALLY imply "there's no racism". It only implies that racism is not systemic or even wide spread amongst whites.

If you had just been taught to think independently and clearly -- YOUR privilege of not being sucked in by the race dividers like THIS guy who cant think or write would caution you not to buy the whole hog you just posted -- and we'd be further along on stuff we actually agree on..

 

[flacaltenn]

If it’s a theory, why am I not allowed to question it?

Technically, any theory invites challenges. That must be why rigorous science and logic and reason are racist..

And by the scientific method, which applies in fields not even sciency, you can refute a poorly written and contradictive theory just by pointing out any inconsistency or error. By all rights, under ADEQUATE peer review, CRT would have been killed soon after it was born..

But instead, it's being carried by largely Woking Dead white elites and shielded from abuse..

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Technically, any theory invites challenges. That must be why rigorous science and logic and reason are racist..

And by the scientific method, which applies in fields not even sciency, you can refute a poorly written and contradictive theory just by pointing out any inconsistency or error. By all rights, under ADEQUATE peer review, CRT would have been killed soon after it was born..

But instead, it's being carried by largely Woking Dead white elites and shielded from abuse..

Therein lies the problem. If I question this theory, I am deemed a racist. Pretty sad.

 

[Dekster]

Missed the point Dude. To these activists - folks of different color cant discuss "blackness".. No such concept as yellownish or brownish or alien blueness.

BUT the movement is pushing the SAME useless generalizations and stereotypes that WHITE supremacists claim that POColor are born into.. With the same meanness and dedication to DEGRADING white folks.

I blame the late 80's and early 90's. All those bored white upper middle class kids turning their jew fro into dread locks before they went down to hacky sack at the coffee house was gonna eventually destroy civilization as we know it. It was just of question of when.

Anyway there is a balance to be found. We just have to find it and stop worrying about what offends us.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Actually, I'm gonna educate you here. CRT DID spawn out of "Critical legal theory" as it's predecessor, but it was generalized to ALL AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS.. Not just the law and the courts.. AND CLegalTheory did not copy the white supremacist method of PERSONAL DEGRADATION applied to white people who are as inherently racist as all their institutions and history are.

And the CLegalTheory met with a similar "lukewarm" peer review because it ALSO was fraught with logical errors and unsupported assertions about EVERY court and EVERY law in the country..



Elementary school kids cant really understand a lot of complex issues, but you can still pass the vital parts on in Children's book like the one I showed in the OPost. For crying out loud, Grimms Fairy Tales are really Civics lessons -- aren't they? Or are they too racist for the black neighborhood.



It was kinda like that.. Except the part where it was about the benevolence of whites. WHITES (and blacks) DIED in a big huge war. Wasn't a benevelent war was it? A President got assassinated and STILL whites fought among themselves about Reconstruction. Another product of POLITICS -- not racism.

Besides before I turned 17, i spent 2 summers volunteering for HeadStart and got my head straight about what you call "white privilege" WITHOUT your help.. First year, they set up this lovely campus on the all white Florida beachside and NO black kids showed up.. We NEEDED black kids to validate how woke we were back then.. So the adults found out that black parents were embarrassed about sending their kids over to whiteyland without the proper clothes. So we got our asses in gear and launched a massive shoe and clothing drive. AND THEN we got our "underprivileged" black kids to validate our goodness.

See -- If you can't SELL CRT to clear thinking adults -- you GOT to go after white and dark kids when they're very young. BEFORE they learn for THEMSELVES about what white privilege is all about.. SO YOU and the other marxist fanatics can tell them they are DAMNED to ALWAYS be the oppressors.. Until they find THEMSELVES and figure it out on their own without being irretrievable sinners and racists.

That is one of the many problems of CRT. Everything is defined via the prism of race, when in fact the issues are often sociological, political, or cultural. An empirical truism in my field is that communities can only be fixed from within. Yet blacks have been told for decades that any problems that exist within their community are always due to outside influences, usually racism, and the only means to address these problems is political (i.e. by kindly, sympathetic white progressives in Government).

Amazingly, blacks have believed this garbage since the 1960's, with minimal progress in their socio-economic status relative to other races. CRT simply ups the ante on the rhetoric by blaming all whites as being systemically racist (except of course the kindly white progressives who only demand the complete and utter fealty and subservience of blacks they are "helping").

You are correct in that CRT is being targeted to kids because few adults with anything above a room temperature I.Q. would buy anything so stupid, illogical, and patently false.