Criminalizing unemployed - Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests

[Mr.Fitnah]

Welfare and unemployment beneficiaries would have to pass a drug test to qualify for programs under an amendment offered Tuesday by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah).

Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
Welfare absolutely . unemployment not so much.

Yea! Let's spend a LOT more taxpayer's money, break up families and STILL be left with human beings that will be society's burden...

But at least we can complete the Right wing Nanny state Nixon and Reagan started...

]

No, go ahead and legalize the shit just dont subsidies its use .
As far as I can tell the drug laws were created to protect William Hurst paper industry and the Rockefeller Oil concerns .
Now the Drug enforcement is an industry.

we should be just, before we are generous . People work to hard for their cash to have it taken by the government to give to a bunch of lay about shitheals.

 

[topspin]

So just ignore that I proved both of you wrong about death by withdrawal?

Marijuana legalization should be a state decision, other drugs, not so much.

i'll concede that you can google with the best of them.

if you want to try to tell me that the use of alcohol hasn't caused more misery, needless deaths and destruction than the use of any other drug, then i'll tell you right now that you're full of shit.

Del, I have for the last several years worked on a drug task force. I can tell you without doubt that meth is nastier than alcohol, and I by no means defend alcohol. It has caused misery it has caused pain, it has broken up families, but worse than another drug? I would say maybe ONLY because alcohol has been around longer than the others.

Oh, and I didn't have to Google that to know it.

I can see the argument for alcohol, it's basically fermented fruit and or vegetables. I can see the argument for pot, it's basically a plant. Meth is basically well poison. I've seen lots of fucked up things, and lots of neglect and lots of abuse, but NOTHING even comes close to the damage done by a meth addiction. I've never dealt with it myself, but I hear crack is no better.

I'm sorry but you speak from ignorance if you claim that alcohol is as dangerous as hard drugs. it is not. No matter how you want to try to justify it.

I gotta say my stance only applies to pot, from what I see meth is highly destructive as is heroin. I'm not a legalize all person, just God's herb

 

[topspin]

Haven't read shit

don't exactly care

BUT

if it's MY MONEY?

You BETTER not be spending it on drugz.

And ^that's^ coming from an herbalist.

DO NOT **** with MY money.

And i'll give YOU the same, in return.

No. i won't be back to this thread. Do not bother "doing" me...

Unless you have the same opinion on wars of choice **** that and you'd be a moron

 

[Gatekeeper]

The more I see of what government is doing and trying to do, the more I throw my hands up and ask why don't the majority of the citizens see whats going on and call for a stop to this nonsense. Mandatory drug testing for the unemployed?

I have been convinced for a long while now that some of these people in government have too much time on their hands, and just think of ANYTHING in order to make themselves look like their doing something. I know many of them have good intentions, but sheeesh, sometimes..........well.

Maybe we should have mandatory drug testing for all government employees, especially on the HILL,monthly. The same with ALL drivers license renewals. Why does "Unemployed" trigger a call for drug testing in the first place?

I like the one tag line, I forget who in here has it.

None of this makes any sense

I think he is right.

 

[Big Fitz]

Big Fitz, all I can say is you literally turn my stomach.

You've done my digestive systems no favors either. Your vision of the world as you've put out there in drips and dribbles is nothing short of a nightmare worthy of Pol Pot and Salvador Dali slammed together in one charming 'borg'-like collectivist package.

You represent the most dangerous kind of citizen to a free and open society.

No, I represent the most dangerous type of citizen to a socialist totalitarian society: A free and critical thinking individual. You don't want a free and open society. You want one that agrees with you, and since I don't do that, I must be stopped.

The FIRST requirement is to devalue the life of others and the dehumanize them. The second is to never question the state.

And what pray tell do you do to those you deign to condescend to in an "oh the poor dears" voice and then hand them a chunk of someone else's money due to no virtue of their own, so they can continue to squeek by living a wretched existance. Your kind turn them into cattle and expect nothing of them except obedience and blind loyalty because you allow them to live in some sickly patronizing manner they have been told is "kindness". What an enabler you are.

How do those type of dangerous people talk and think? Just like THIS:
Fewer laws, harsher penalties. I don't agree in "Life without Parole". No, commute it to death and be done with it. Safer, cheaper done. Err on the side of society. Yes some innocents will fall victim, but we are talking a fraction of a percentage at most.

So... in your mind, allowing a human being to be tortured for the rest of their life by living in a small box, is better??? Then you are so kind to let out into a yard like a pet for a few hours a day, knowing full well they are dangerous animals that cannot be trusted among normal law abiding citizens, feeding them, housing them, clothing, giving them a chance to plot, plan and improve themselves to make themselves more dangerous because if they ever get out, they may not be caught again before they do much more damage... This is your idea of KINDNESS??? You're a sicker man than I thought.

Now with Life WITH Parole, there is something to work for. They can prove they are reformed and maybe in due time be released back into society safely. There is hope for something better. But without that hope of rehabilitation or even freedom, you may as well put them in a 6x3x2 box 6 feet down and be done with it. 12 peers and a judge have found them not worth returning to society, and although they may not be perfect, they're wrong very little of the time.

When confronted on the issue of the Death penalty by someone on the right, I usually provide overwhelming evidence that capital punishment is not cheaper.

False market. It's made more expensive by the way the system is currently set up for too long a time for appeal and waiting on death row. Death penalty convictions should be carried out inside of 2 years. If you can't find something new by then, no sense in dawdling. Even if the innocent accidentally sentenced to death row is 2 in 10,000, I'm still for it. There is no perfect justice on this planet, and we do a damn sight better than 99% of all that had come before us. But in the last 30 years or so, we've forgotten what exactly the point of justice is. It's for the protection of victims of criminals and society... not the protection of criminals from consequences of their own actions. But I see you don't understand that.

But your fascist statement: Yes some innocents will fall victim, but we are talking a fraction of a percentage at most. has left me almost speechless.

Then you're a bigger candyass than I gave you credit for. You don't have the stomach to do the right thing, so leave it to those who can. I don't know if I could pull the lever myself to execute someone, but I know enough to stay out of the way of one who can. The amount of innocents that fall victim are an unfortunate fact of all justice systems. We should not put the law abiding populace at risk or deny victims proper justice just in case that 0.0002% chance they actually are innocent hits.

Even if that were true, they are not all competent and immune from making errors or having bias. Since 1973 over 130 people have been released from death row because of evidence of their innocence.

I still have no problems sleeping at night. Nor does your hyperventilation over my 'cruelty' when I can see you do not understand the meaning of the word 'Justice' move me. You are full of compassion and empathy, but have no common sense towards the reality of how the world works, compassion for those victimized or respect for the law and those who risk their lives for it.

You are a very sick and totally ignorant human being. I truly pity you.

I've thought the same of you since I first saw you post. So, when they start rounding up political prisoners there against the People's Republic of America... will you be there cheering on or protesting my execution? Or would you prefer me plotting behind bars 'forever' your eventual fall? Be interesting to see if you have an honest response to that.

ps... I have family who work in the federal prison system administration, I get a little different perspective than you from what it's really like, not from TV and criminal advocates.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't agree with THIS. If you are collecting UE isnurance that's money you paid in. I am however pro drug testing welfare fags.

You don't pay into unemployment insurance, your employer does.

Each state pays its unemployed workers from the pool of unemployment taxes it collected from employers, based on their number of employees and their turnover history. The formulae is different for each state. According to the Related Links below the state collects payroll taxes from employers, based on their turnover rate. This became a law under the Federal Social Security Act and is administered by the individual states. The only time employers pay employees directly is when the employer has an agreement to do so by the state that collects the taxes from them, in order to opt out of paying the tax. The employer does not receive a bill for payments made, but the state does adjust his tax rate based on his turn over experience. The taxes collected pays for both operational costs as well as benefit payments.

In Texas, Your employer ultimately pays 100% of any unemployment benefits you receive.

The state issues your the check from its account, So in that since it appears that the state pays you the benefit check, But then they bill the employer for the amount of those disbursements. So in actuality, the employer is still paying it. In Fact,, Unemployment commission employees here will not even call it "Unemployment Insurance" because it is in effect not insurance in the way it is handled here, They use the term "Unemployment Compensation" instead, or at least when talking to the employer.

•Unemployment Benefits: A Federal-State Lifeline for the Unemployed
•unemployment compensation: West's Encyclopedia of American Law (Full Article) from Answers.com
•http://www.azleg.state.az.us/briefs/Senate/UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.pdf

Oh good grief. any logical person could ascertain that UE insurance is part of your compensation package and therefor YOU pay it. Might as well say that if your employer offers company paid insurance then then that means they pay for your insurance, not you.

Prove it. I've given you facts that shows that it's your employer that pays for unemployment compensation. If you have evidence to the contrary, then by all means let's see it. If not, then .

 

[Big Fitz]

Maybe we should have mandatory drug testing for all government employees, especially on the HILL,monthly. The same with ALL drivers license renewals. Why does "Unemployed" trigger a call for drug testing in the first place?

The government is supposed to have mandatory random drug testing. They don't seem to do a good job.

Why is 'unemployment' a trigger? Simple, you are being paid money from the government as a REPLACEMENT for income. What are you spending it on is, as GM has proven, the government's business. And really, this is not ABOUT unemployment, this is about indigence. People who are chronically unemployed or unemployable. Drugs, drinking and other addiction is often the cause for this and then if that's the case, they need treatment, not handouts to continue living in a wretched existence that ultimately can only lead to crime as they dig themselves in deeper.

And yet so many talk about 'compassion' for these people. I agree. Those who use Welfare for what it's supposed to be for: a temporary assistance to get back on their feet with a new job and ability to support themselves, it is nice to have there. But you often have more abuse of the system than proper use because there lives become... comfortable even at that pathetic level. Money for almost nothing. Make it uncomfortable for them to go about life as usual, and they will get off welfare so they can go back to whatever life they want to live. But you make it too easy to take gubmint money without any responsibilities or repercussions, they'll live in comfortable poverty for as long as you let them like the child in the basement.

There's no dignity in that, and it's about as uplifting as an opium den. We've coddled for 40 years. Now it's time for tough love.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You don't pay into unemployment insurance, your employer does.

Each state pays its unemployed workers from the pool of unemployment taxes it collected from employers, based on their number of employees and their turnover history. The formulae is different for each state. According to the Related Links below the state collects payroll taxes from employers, based on their turnover rate. This became a law under the Federal Social Security Act and is administered by the individual states. The only time employers pay employees directly is when the employer has an agreement to do so by the state that collects the taxes from them, in order to opt out of paying the tax. The employer does not receive a bill for payments made, but the state does adjust his tax rate based on his turn over experience. The taxes collected pays for both operational costs as well as benefit payments.

In Texas, Your employer ultimately pays 100% of any unemployment benefits you receive.

The state issues your the check from its account, So in that since it appears that the state pays you the benefit check, But then they bill the employer for the amount of those disbursements. So in actuality, the employer is still paying it. In Fact,, Unemployment commission employees here will not even call it "Unemployment Insurance" because it is in effect not insurance in the way it is handled here, They use the term "Unemployment Compensation" instead, or at least when talking to the employer.

•Unemployment Benefits: A Federal-State Lifeline for the Unemployed
•unemployment compensation: West's Encyclopedia of American Law (Full Article) from Answers.com
•http://www.azleg.state.az.us/briefs/Senate/UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.pdf

Oh good grief. any logical person could ascertain that UE insurance is part of your compensation package and therefor YOU pay it. Might as well say that if your employer offers company paid insurance then then that means they pay for your insurance, not you.

Prove it. I've given you facts that shows that it's your employer that pays for unemployment compensation. If you have evidence to the contrary, then by all means let's see it. If not, then .

Your employer's 'contribution' to your UE compensation is part of what your employer is paying you for the job you do. It's not some sort of gift.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Big Fitz

Why is 'unemployment' a trigger? Simple, you are being paid money from the government as a REPLACEMENT for income.

Sounds like that can be carried right over to the income received from the government in the form of social security checks, in a way 'replacement income'. For a continued monthly SS check it is now required that each recipient have a monthly drug screening, failure to do so will result in the loss of that months S.S.Check. Positive results of the monthly drug screening will also result in the loss of one months S.S. check.

Next, drug screening for ALL Welfare checks, food stamps, any and ALL entitlements provided by our most benevolent government,to insure a drug free society. With of course the exception of liquor, nicotine, which, as we all know, have so many beneficial effects upon our society.

Maybe like in the movie, THX1138, but in reverse.

Narcotics are critical both in maintaining compliance among the city's residents and also for ensuring their ability to conduct dangerous and demanding tasks for long periods of time. The inhabitants worship a godlike being known as "OMM", whom they commune with in telephone booth-like areas known as "Unichapels".

Hmmm, that gives me an idea..........................

 

[Big Fitz]

Big Fitz

Why is 'unemployment' a trigger? Simple, you are being paid money from the government as a REPLACEMENT for income.

Sounds like that can be carried right over to the income received from the government in the form of social security checks, in a way 'replacement income'. For a continued monthly SS check it is now required that each recipient have a monthly drug screening, failure to do so will result in the loss of that months S.S.Check. Positive results of the monthly drug screening will also result in the loss of one months S.S. check.

Next, drug screening for ALL Welfare checks, food stamps, any and ALL entitlements provided by our most benevolent government,to insure a drug free society. With of course the exception of liquor, nicotine, which, as we all know, have so many beneficial effects upon our society.

Maybe like in the movie, THX1138, but in reverse.

Narcotics are critical both in maintaining compliance among the city's residents and also for ensuring their ability to conduct dangerous and demanding tasks for long periods of time. The inhabitants worship a godlike being known as "OMM", whom they commune with in telephone booth-like areas known as "Unichapels".

Hmmm, that gives me an idea..........................

If I could eliminate all welfare social spending programs and instead offer tax breaks for charitable giving to private/religious organizations, I would. Solves two problems at once. Shrinks government and inspires giving to reputable social agencies who feel a calling to do so in the lives of others supported by resources given freely, not forced.

 

[topspin]

crying about welfare is a pastime for lower middle class white who like to blame for thier lack of success. On the left our crutch is the military industrial complex.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Oh good grief. any logical person could ascertain that UE insurance is part of your compensation package and therefor YOU pay it. Might as well say that if your employer offers company paid insurance then then that means they pay for your insurance, not you.

Prove it. I've given you facts that shows that it's your employer that pays for unemployment compensation. If you have evidence to the contrary, then by all means let's see it. If not, then .

Your employer's 'contribution' to your UE compensation is part of what your employer is paying you for the job you do. It's not some sort of gift.

Prove it.

 

[Bfgrn]

Big Fitz, all I can say is you literally turn my stomach.

You've done my digestive systems no favors either. Your vision of the world as you've put out there in drips and dribbles is nothing short of a nightmare worthy of Pol Pot and Salvador Dali slammed together in one charming 'borg'-like collectivist package.

You represent the most dangerous kind of citizen to a free and open society.

No, I represent the most dangerous type of citizen to a socialist totalitarian society: A free and critical thinking individual. You don't want a free and open society. You want one that agrees with you, and since I don't do that, I must be stopped.



And what pray tell do you do to those you deign to condescend to in an "oh the poor dears" voice and then hand them a chunk of someone else's money due to no virtue of their own, so they can continue to squeek by living a wretched existance. Your kind turn them into cattle and expect nothing of them except obedience and blind loyalty because you allow them to live in some sickly patronizing manner they have been told is "kindness". What an enabler you are.



So... in your mind, allowing a human being to be tortured for the rest of their life by living in a small box, is better??? Then you are so kind to let out into a yard like a pet for a few hours a day, knowing full well they are dangerous animals that cannot be trusted among normal law abiding citizens, feeding them, housing them, clothing, giving them a chance to plot, plan and improve themselves to make themselves more dangerous because if they ever get out, they may not be caught again before they do much more damage... This is your idea of KINDNESS??? You're a sicker man than I thought.

Now with Life WITH Parole, there is something to work for. They can prove they are reformed and maybe in due time be released back into society safely. There is hope for something better. But without that hope of rehabilitation or even freedom, you may as well put them in a 6x3x2 box 6 feet down and be done with it. 12 peers and a judge have found them not worth returning to society, and although they may not be perfect, they're wrong very little of the time.



False market. It's made more expensive by the way the system is currently set up for too long a time for appeal and waiting on death row. Death penalty convictions should be carried out inside of 2 years. If you can't find something new by then, no sense in dawdling. Even if the innocent accidentally sentenced to death row is 2 in 10,000, I'm still for it. There is no perfect justice on this planet, and we do a damn sight better than 99% of all that had come before us. But in the last 30 years or so, we've forgotten what exactly the point of justice is. It's for the protection of victims of criminals and society... not the protection of criminals from consequences of their own actions. But I see you don't understand that.



Then you're a bigger candyass than I gave you credit for. You don't have the stomach to do the right thing, so leave it to those who can. I don't know if I could pull the lever myself to execute someone, but I know enough to stay out of the way of one who can. The amount of innocents that fall victim are an unfortunate fact of all justice systems. We should not put the law abiding populace at risk or deny victims proper justice just in case that 0.0002% chance they actually are innocent hits.

Even if that were true, they are not all competent and immune from making errors or having bias. Since 1973 over 130 people have been released from death row because of evidence of their innocence.

I still have no problems sleeping at night. Nor does your hyperventilation over my 'cruelty' when I can see you do not understand the meaning of the word 'Justice' move me. You are full of compassion and empathy, but have no common sense towards the reality of how the world works, compassion for those victimized or respect for the law and those who risk their lives for it.

You are a very sick and totally ignorant human being. I truly pity you.

I've thought the same of you since I first saw you post. So, when they start rounding up political prisoners there against the People's Republic of America... will you be there cheering on or protesting my execution? Or would you prefer me plotting behind bars 'forever' your eventual fall? Be interesting to see if you have an honest response to that.

ps... I have family who work in the federal prison system administration, I get a little different perspective than you from what it's really like, not from TV and criminal advocates.

Fitz, it is amazing how blindly you continue to devalue the life of others and then dehumanize them. After you create your monsters, it allows you to moralize their extinction. It is always the way with the fascist mind. That is what allows you to put them in the ovens, or in your case, the chair.

There is a small percentage of human beings that are the irretrievable monsters you create. I don't advocate for letting REAL criminals run free. I said in an earlier post: 'We ALL can agree there are people that must be kept locked up and away from society. But it should be for violent crimes and adults that violate children'. AND I also said...'NO ONE that uses drugs should be punished for it. They are causing their own self punishment. They need help; counseling and medical'.

We need to make prisons a place for the people that truly ARE dangerous to society. Not a place where we lock up people that grow a plant in their back yard and smoke it. THAT is insanity!

The other fascist trait you continue to be totally oblivious to is your devout Statism. The 'government' you right wingers loathe and continually say is incompetent, inept and 'can't do anything right' is SUDDENLY beyond reproach and questions of competence when your beloved State arrests, incarcerates and executes human beings. Your sickness and your blindness are stunning!

You pontificate and moralize how executing 'some' innocent human beings is just the cost of justice for society and the victim's families. But IS IT? What comfort would it be to a family having to live with the death of their loved one, an innocent victim of crime AND the death of another family's innocent loved one? What about the ability to 'sleep at night' for the jurors that sent an innocent person to their death?

AND what about the consequences Fitz. You are BIG on punishment and swift justice. Killing an innocent human being is murder. WHO pays for that crime when the State murders an innocent person, you?...the Governor? What about the families of THOSE innocent victims YOU have created? If one of my family members murdered someone, I could find a way to accept their consequences. But if my family member were innocent and executed, I would now be a victim you righteously say you are protecting.

The depth and scope of your illness is sad Fitz. You aren't even aware of it, and I doubt you ever will. Until you come face to face with St Peter.

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[Bfgrn]

puppycock... Drugs need to remain illegal.

You are nothing but mindless a right wing scum bag. Hey asshole, do you know there is only ONE drug where a human being can DIE just from withdrawal? Look it up! It's the same one that kills more Americans that any other. Look it up!

Actually , there are THREE groups of drugs (if you count alcohol as a drug) from which you can die from withdrawal.

Alcohol
Benzos
Opiates

Proving once again that MY knowledge on ANY subject > your combined knowledge on ALL subjects

Alcohol, benzos, and opiates - Withdrawal that might kill you! | Psychology Today

Which only proves you can 'google'. There is consensus alcohol withdrawal can be lethal. The other two are either not supported by consensus or extremely rare.

And yes, alcohol is a drug. I suggest you educate yourself on history. Here are some names to help you improve you knowledge.

William Randolph Hearst
Andrew Mellon
Harry Anslinger
E. I. Du Pont

 

[Father Time]

Most of the righties are fascist, they are the fustrated poor white working class pissed at minorities for their failures.

For the love of God don't drag race into this. It just makes you look bad.

 

[Big Fitz]

I find your attempt at moral superiority as a moral relativist a laughable folly. The day I accept the validity of 'feel good ethics' an 'cause I like it and that makes it right morality' as equal if not superior to an absolutist one Christian God view of reality, is the day I ask for the check. Spare me your sermonizing or at least find a sound proof room if you must prosthelatize to yourself.

After you create your monsters

I have created no monsters, they were created without my help and I society and their peers have deemed them such. They have the right and authority by our social compact to do such a thing. If you do not like it, please find the nation in which you agree with their judicial code and move.

It is always the way with the fascist mind. That is what allows you to put them in the ovens, or in your case, the chair.

Reacto in absurdum. You are drawing parallels that do not exist. Even the Bible proscribed capital punishment. Of course, you are not a Christian or if you claim to be, a very ignorant one. There is nothing wrong with doing away with monsters. Are you for keeping baby rapist/murderers around in a little box, driving them crazier and crazier and praying for them to never get out? Who's the inhumane one now? Or do you just want to stop at mutilation? Castration, chemical and physical, has been proven to fail for it is not about the sex, it is about power, control and the ability to do bad things. These monsters need to be shot, the instant they are convicted for there is no cure for them. Brighter minds than you and I have figured this out But let's let them live in a little box instead just so you can sleep at night.

I don't advocate for letting REAL criminals run free.

Ah, here we get to it. You just want to be the arbiter of what is crime and what isn't. Gotta love relativist elitists. Then again, most elitists are relativists. It's the only way to justify their actions and beliefs. Not willing to accept the work of better minds who created this system of justice before you.

I said in an earlier post: 'We ALL can agree there are people that must be kept locked up and away from society.

You just don't have the stomach to follow this logic to it's practical end. If you are NEVER going to let them out, execute them and be done with it. Otherwise you are a cruel and inhumane monster as well, executing them slowly by time and idleness. I find that excessively cruel. Much better the kindness to blow their brains out and be done with it. BTW, are you pro choice? Pro euthanasia for the suffering elderly?

The other fascist trait you continue to be totally oblivious to is your devout Statism.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funniest goddamn statement you have EVER made bfgrn in the passion of trying to win an argument! Oh my stars and garters!!! You are an astounding scoundrel, indeed! To try and paint me with the same slime and filth you worship??? My gawd! I'm a statist????? If stupidity was a sin, you should have immolated the instant you made that statement!

No. I'm not even going to go into a defense as why that was ******* stupid. You are too intellectually, morally and socially bankrupt to even comprehend this. You are worth only enough to laugh at for you have just fallen into the ocean and insist it is not wet.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

AND I also said...'NO ONE that uses drugs should be punished for it. They are causing their own self punishment. They need help; counseling and medical'.

Having a prison psychologist in the family gives me a little better take on this than you I see. Drugs are not a victimless crime. Even the Chinese knew that with the opium wars. Drugs destroy nations. Always have, always will. They are a drain on society and a threat to law abiding citizens with their very acts. If they ever run out of ways to obtain their drugs legally, they will resort to other crimes, which you aren't even capable of punishing properly, leaving you in a very awkward dilemma.

I doubt you even understand why we finally banned drug use in this nation. Probably think it all started with Nixon. It didn't. Used to be until the Great Depression you could get many illegal drugs over the counter at the drug store or soda fountain or speakeasy. Common 'tonics' in New York taverns, for example circa 1890 would sell you cocktails mad of Ether, Chloral Hydrate, Benzene and Opiates as well as cocaine (back then they called it "Burny" cause it burned the nose so bad). People often died of these cocktails because of bad reations or from violence that followed in the wake of these little pockets of bacchanalia hell. Opium dens were common in the old west following the Chinese as they moved east through the nation and the Civil War turned an entire generation of wounded veterens into morphine fiends that created an actual crisis when dealing with federal government pensions for wounded veterans. It was not uncommon for the wife to go down and get "Laudnam" to feed their far older husband his habit, leaving him at home and as long as she kept him sedated, she had a life far better than her peers.

The Temperance League and many other organizations struggled just as hard against these drugs as they did Demon Rum for they saw the wreckage it left on society. And here you sit thinking it's just going to 'stop at pot'. It will not and we will return to an era of social degeneracy that would make even the carnal degenerates of the 1960's free love era flinch in horror. You do not understand the demon that you wish to release on this nation through your own naivete. It is not good what you serve, but one of the blackest evils that this world has ever known.

Your sickness and your blindness are stunning!

I'm astounded you're capable of functioning in society. Well I assume you are able to. You're only words on a screen to me. Very very stupid words.

Killing an innocent human being is murder.

No system of justice is perfect. Secondly, executing the wrong person is an accident. Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime.

What about the ability to 'sleep at night' for the jurors that sent an innocent person to their death?

Invalid argument. Everyone on the jury must agree that the death penalty is warranted. Also, if someone is incapable of considering that option for a death penalty case, they are unfit for that jury. They must at least be open to the possibility that punishment is necessary. I see you've never served Jury Duty before. I have, and was the member of the jury that got the man convicted by discovering his lie. We went from a hung jury to unanimous conviction and everyone in that jury room was satisfied they did right. The truth and justice is what must be served. I am very proud of myself for that even though it was not a death penalty trial.

You... obviously know nothing of what it's like to be in that position. I have taken away a man's freedom for what he did and know I did right. You need to volunteer and learn something little boy.

Killing an innocent human being is murder. WHO pays for that crime when the State murders an innocent person, you?...the Governor? What about the families of THOSE innocent victims YOU have created? If one of my family members murdered someone, I could find a way to accept their consequences. But if my family member were innocent and executed, I would now be a victim you righteously say you are protecting.

Okay, it's clear that you are not capable of rational thought on this. You are nothing more than a pile of advocacy bullshit, rage and blithering ignorance.

The depth and scope of your illness is sad Fitz. You aren't even aware of it, and I doubt you ever will. Until you come face to face with St Peter.

Hah! And the one ignorant of absolute ethics and morality tries to sermonize again. One little bit of advice here. Don't use St. Peter anymore, you don't get it and it's obvious you don't understand sin either. I am not sinless. I never have BEEN sinless. But through faith in Jesus Christ, My lord, (doubtful he's yours) I am forgiven.

Now sod off, and play with someone else. You're incapable of this discussion, Will Hunting.

PS... wasn't it also Thomas Jefferson who said the tree of liberty must every once and a while be watered by the blood of patriots and tyrants? Hmmmmmm not so pacifist now, was he?

 

[Father Time]

Ok how the hell did this turn into a death penalty discussion?

 

[American Horse]

Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests - The Hill

Hey Orrin, why not just use ankle monitors?

WHO will pay for this expensive 'program'? Fiscal conservatism is just a code word. It is all about trying to turn democracy into an aristocracy. Hatch's 'program' would help to perpetuate the perception that there's "a two-class system where if you're unemployed, you no longer have the same rights as other people. It kind of criminalizes being jobless, just like over the past 20 years or so we've criminalized being homeless. That seems to be the answer for a lot of Republicans; just go ahead and go to war on the problem instead of dealing with it in a more human way."

See the only reason that someone doesn't have a job in this thriving economy is because they are drug addicts. Hatch is just trying to help.

What with David Walker's wistful call for a return to debtor's prison and this hideous attack on the unemployed it's evident that the fatuous elites in this country are so out of touch that they really have no idea how obscene their aristocratic braying sounds to average Americans. or perhaps they do, and just don't care. If your point is to pretend that 10% official unemployment is simply a reflection of the bad character of the unemployed so you can protect the wealth of the ruling class, then turning every unemployed person into a suspected criminal and potential drug user makes sense.

A person who is smoking dope daily is in no condition to seek a job. As a matter of fact they will put off finding a job, and then keep putting it off. At the same time they would be spending their unemployment check on dope, and it is not cheap; what $300 an ounce now, and how long does an oz. last; especially for someone who has nothing else to do?

 

[American Horse]

I don't agree with THIS. If you are collecting UE isnurance that's money you paid in. I am however pro drug testing welfare fags.

I believe you are wrong about that. Look on your pay-check for a unemployment insurance deduction. You will find it is not there. That's because the employer pays it as a cost of doing business. And as a matter of fact, but neither here-nor-there, it is usually a very small amount unless the employer has a very bad record of laying people off. The aim is off Senator Hatch is to get people back to week work, rather than enabling some very bad habits.

 

[Big Fitz]

Ok how the hell did this turn into a death penalty discussion?

bfgrn's pet hang up it seems. I'm pretty much done entertaining it. Rather have a rational discussion.