Crime drops in Colorado.... It's all about drugs

[frigidweirdo]

They can demand all they want, but they aren't "free" to endanger me and my family.

Of course they are. They can drive and endanger your family, they can do loads of stuff that endanger you and your family.

They can't do it legally. They can also drink and drive and endanger your family.

The point being that just living life can, in fact, be kind of dangerous. There's not much suggesting that people being able to legally smoking pot makes things more dangerous though.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You are on very shaky ground here. There are still other drugs. Drugs like crack, meth, heroin, etc. there is no logical reason to expect gang related crime to decrease, and you cannot show a correlation. Violent crime is down all over the country.

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

I guess that's why legal lotteries obliterated numbers games.
Oh,w ait.

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

No one is advocating that government start selling marijuana, only acknowledge that where marijuana is concerned, the 'war on drugs' is a complete failure.

How is it a failure?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We could have no crime if everyone was put on a morphine drip.

No one has been placed on Marihuana. Individuals are demanding it on their own.


.

People would be demanding morphine more if they thought they could get it.

Why can't Americans , free people they are, demand morphine?

.

They can demand all they want, but they aren't "free" to endanger me and my family.

How does using morphine in the confines of your home endanger anyone?

Because there's no such thing as "the confines of your own home." That's the delusion of the Pothead Left, that drugs are used in a bubble and only the user suffers the consequences. More often, friends, family, co workers, and complete strangers are affected by drug use. Do you want your brain surgeon half baked? How about a crane operator or a truck driver? How about your kids' teacher or a police officer or fireman? Many of these "private drug users" are actually parents or other relatives exposing children to their lifestyle. Only people living on an island can say they aren't hurting anyone but themselves.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Nobody goes to jail for possession of under an oz of weed. That's what has been legalized.

Everything else is the same. It's still illegal to grow with intent to sell. It's still a felony to possess more than 40 oz. It's still illegal to possess any amount for minors. And they've added a Draconian new DUI rule of 5 nanograms per liter of blood, so now you can get a DUI for having smoked weed yesterday.

So, there may be valid reasons why crime is going down in CO. Ganja legalization ain't it.

Furthermore, the taxes aren't what people expected. The revenues are coming up way short, and the taxes are keeping the black market afloat.

And really, why would you buy a taxed product when you can just get your medical card for whatever ( headaches, depression, PMS ) and grow a few plants in your back yard?

 

[bripat9643]

No one has been placed on Marihuana. Individuals are demanding it on their own.


.

People would be demanding morphine more if they thought they could get it.

Why can't Americans , free people they are, demand morphine?

.

They can demand all they want, but they aren't "free" to endanger me and my family.

How does using morphine in the confines of your home endanger anyone?

Because there's no such thing as "the confines of your own home." That's the delusion of the Pothead Left, that drugs are used in a bubble and only the user suffers the consequences. More often, friends, family, co workers, and complete strangers are affected by drug use. Do you want your brain surgeon half baked? How about a crane operator or a truck driver? How about your kids' teacher or a police officer or fireman? Many of these "private drug users" are actually parents or other relatives exposing children to their lifestyle. Only people living on an island can say they aren't hurting anyone but themselves.

Brain Surgeons and Crane operators have contractual obligations not to use Marijuana. They often have to take random drug tests to demonstrate the fact. However, no one smoking large doses of marijuana has what it takes to become a brain surgeon. As long as they don't use it around my kids, I couldn't care less if teachers smoke marijuana. The same goes for police and firemen. However, these people still have to take random drug tests, so your question is moot.

Explain why a software developer shouldn't be allowed to smoke marijuana in his own home.

 

[BULLDOG]

lol, you believe that I've got some swamp land to sell

Probably the fact it's WINTER might have something to do with it.

Was there a corresponding drop in crime last winter? The winter before?

 

[bripat9643]

Nobody goes to jail for possession of under an oz of weed. That's what has been legalized.

Everything else is the same. It's still illegal to grow with intent to sell. It's still a felony to possess more than 40 oz. It's still illegal to possess any amount for minors. And they've added a Draconian new DUI rule of 5 nanograms per liter of blood, so now you can get a DUI for having smoked weed yesterday.

So, there may be valid reasons why crime is going down in CO. Ganja legalization ain't it.

Furthermore, the taxes aren't what people expected. The revenues are coming up way short, and the taxes are keeping the black market afloat.

And really, why would you buy a taxed product when you can just get your medical card for whatever ( headaches, depression, PMS ) and grow a few plants in your back yard?

Sorry, but it's not illegal to grow it or sell it in Colorado any longer.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

People would be demanding morphine more if they thought they could get it.

Why can't Americans , free people they are, demand morphine?

.

They can demand all they want, but they aren't "free" to endanger me and my family.

How does using morphine in the confines of your home endanger anyone?

Because there's no such thing as "the confines of your own home." That's the delusion of the Pothead Left, that drugs are used in a bubble and only the user suffers the consequences. More often, friends, family, co workers, and complete strangers are affected by drug use. Do you want your brain surgeon half baked? How about a crane operator or a truck driver? How about your kids' teacher or a police officer or fireman? Many of these "private drug users" are actually parents or other relatives exposing children to their lifestyle. Only people living on an island can say they aren't hurting anyone but themselves.

Brain Surgeons and Crane operators have contractual obligations not to use Marijuana. They often have to take random drug tests to demonstrate the fact. However, no one smoking large doses of marijuana has what it takes to become a brain surgeon. As long as they don't use it around my kids, I couldn't care less if teachers smoke marijuana. The same goes for police and firemen. However, these people still have to take random drug tests, so your question is moot.

Explain why a software developer shouldn't be allowed to smoke marijuana in his own home.

You actually think the Pothead Left won't treat this as a "right" that employers and landlords can't violate. You don't know the left very well.

 

[BULLDOG]

American state legalises marijuana 8211 and crime drops 15 Metro News

"Anti-marijuana activists have warned that legalising weed would lead to increased drug addiction, mental problems and crime – but in Colorado, which legalised recreational use of marijuana, the opposite has happened."

"Overall, crime has fallen by 15% and murder has dropped by 50%."

"Sexual assaults and car crime have fallen, and violent crime is down 10% overall."

Two different issues. "Over all crime" and "marijuana use" not the same thing. Very misleading. Why is that?

Perhaps you missed this part

"Overall, crime has fallen by 15% and murder has dropped by 50%."

"Sexual assaults and car crime have fallen, and violent crime is down 10% overall."

 

[frigidweirdo]

Actually crime went up. Your bullshit claim has already been refuted by another poster.

Is this the "no it didn't" from one individual means it actually didn't?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/72...2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported _Offenses_2014.pdf

Jan 1st to Nov 1st 2013 compared with Jan 1st to Nov 1st 2014.

Homicide 2013 38, 2014 29
Sexual assault 2013 423, 2014 396
Robbery 2013 1,049, 2014 1,000
Aggravated Assault 2013 2,183, 2014 2,185

Burglary 2013 4,526, 2014 4,097
Larceny 2013 7,252, 2014 7,303
Theft from Motor Vehicle 2013 6,163, 2014 4,714
Auto Theft 2013 3,185, 2014 3,103
Arson 2013 88, 2014 116

Subtotal 2013 21,214, 2014 19,333

That means everything in Denver is down except Aggravated assault which is up 2 on a total around the 2,000 mark, that's a 0.1% increase, Larceny and Arson.

Total crime is down 7.9% or 2.9% including USC.

That's Denver, I haven't managed to find stats for 2014 from the whole of Colorado. I did find that crime was increasing in 2013.

Now, if pot use supposedly makes a place more dangerous, why isn't Denver more dangerous than it was before pot was legal?

Also, why is Holland not more dangerous than the US?

 

[mamooth]

Actually crime went up. Your bullshit claim has already been refuted by another poster.

That's an invalid claim as well. Here are the actual NIBR stats for Denver. Crime changes there are a mixed bag, comparing 2014 to 2013. It's not correct to say crime in Denver went up or down. "Inconclusive" is the only conclusion that can be made.

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/Citywide_Reported_Offenses_2014.pdf

It should also be noted that "Denver" is not "Colorado", so relying on the Denver NIBR stats gives an incomplete picture. I have not been able to locate a Colorado-wide comparison.

 

[Treeshepherd]

No one has been placed on Marihuana. Individuals are demanding it on their own.


.

People would be demanding morphine more if they thought they could get it.

Why can't Americans , free people they are, demand morphine?

.

They can demand all they want, but they aren't "free" to endanger me and my family.

How does using morphine in the confines of your home endanger anyone?

Because there's no such thing as "the confines of your own home." That's the delusion of the Pothead Left, that drugs are used in a bubble and only the user suffers the consequences. More often, friends, family, co workers, and complete strangers are affected by drug use. Do you want your brain surgeon half baked? How about a crane operator or a truck driver? How about your kids' teacher or a police officer or fireman? Many of these "private drug users" are actually parents or other relatives exposing children to their lifestyle. Only people living on an island can say they aren't hurting anyone but themselves.

Psychoactive cannabis came to the Middle East by 2,000 BC, and was most certainly used by the early Christian christoners. Only recently has cannabis ever been labelled as evil or wicked.

"The Lord said unto me, 'I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs.' " -- Isaiah 18:4-5

"Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be meat for you;” (Genesis 1:29)


“Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man.” (Mat. 15:11)

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. Genesis

Kaneh-bos, or q'aneh-bosm, is a reference to cannabis in the Bible.

"Then the Lord said to Moses, "Take the following fine spices: 500 shekels of liquid myrrh, half as much of fragrant cinnamon, 250 shekels of q'aneh-bosm, 500 shekels of cassia-- all according to the sanctuary shekel-- and a hind of olive oil. Make these into a sacred anointing oil, a fragrant blend, the work of a perfumer. It will be the sacred anointing oil. Then use it to anoint the Tent of the Meeting, the art of the Testimony, the table and all its articles, the lampstand [sic] and its accessories, the alter of incense, the alter of burnt offering and all its utensils, and the basin with its stand. You shall consecrate them so that they will be most holy, and whatever touches them will be holy." -Exodus 30


“"According to some scholars, cannabis was an ingredient of holy anointing oil mentioned in various sacred Hebrew texts. The herb of interest is most commonly known as kaneh-bosm (קְנֵה-בֹשֶׂם) (the singular form of which would be kaneh-bos) which is mentioned several times in the Old Testament as a bartering material, incense, and an ingredient in holy anointing oil used by the high priest of the temple."

 

[Andylusion]

I'm not convinced either way... yet. My issue with this particular article is that..... it's been only a year. One year? You think that's enough to work out all the long-term ramifications?

And on top of that, the article conveniently fails to mention the fact that crime has been declining for years, long before legalization. It's like catching the economy during an upswing, and passing a tax mid-upswing, and claiming... see the tax caused the economy to grow!

Or catching crime on a down swing, and passing a gun ban, mid-down-swing, and claiming.... see the gun ban lowered crime!

If there is already a pattern in progress, it's not intellectually honest to claim that a policy passed in the middle of the pattern, is responsible for the pattern.

By that logic, you would have to conclude that all the criminals were giving up their life of crime for 5 years, because they anticipated legalized pot in the future.

Well that's fantastic! Makes perfect sense to me.

Now that said... I'm not opposed to the idea that legalizing pot may in fact lower crime..... in fact.... that is very obvious. If you reduce the number of laws.... fewer laws can be broken. We can get to ZERO crime, if we just legalize.... EVERYTHING.

I really hate all those rape statistics..... I know... Let's legalize rape, and then we won't have any rape statistics anymore. Zero rapes recorded! Yay for society.

Of course that's insane.

The problem I have is, what are the long term ramifications from legalization. That's going to take years to figure out. It's not going to be determinable in a single year.

And perhaps it won't be that bad. But they did say the same thing about Alcohol in the 1940s. It won't be a big issue. Not a big deal. Nothing to be worried about. Of course today we know that alcohol is a contributing factor in tens of millions of crimes every year. 2/3rd of all domestic violence is alcohol related. 40% of all violent crimes, have alcohol as a factor.

Is it possible that a decade from now, we'll see similar problems related to pot? It's possible... is it not?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'm not convinced either way... yet. My issue with this particular article is that..... it's been only a year. One year? You think that's enough to work out all the long-term ramifications?

And on top of that, the article conveniently fails to mention the fact that crime has been declining for years, long before legalization. It's like catching the economy during an upswing, and passing a tax mid-upswing, and claiming... see the tax caused the economy to grow!

Or catching crime on a down swing, and passing a gun ban, mid-down-swing, and claiming.... see the gun ban lowered crime!

If there is already a pattern in progress, it's not intellectually honest to claim that a policy passed in the middle of the pattern, is responsible for the pattern.

By that logic, you would have to conclude that all the criminals were giving up their life of crime for 5 years, because they anticipated legalized pot in the future.

Well that's fantastic! Makes perfect sense to me.

Now that said... I'm not opposed to the idea that legalizing pot may in fact lower crime..... in fact.... that is very obvious. If you reduce the number of laws.... fewer laws can be broken. We can get to ZERO crime, if we just legalize.... EVERYTHING.

I really hate all those rape statistics..... I know... Let's legalize rape, and then we won't have any rape statistics anymore. Zero rapes recorded! Yay for society.

Of course that's insane.

The problem I have is, what are the long term ramifications from legalization. That's going to take years to figure out. It's not going to be determinable in a single year.

And perhaps it won't be that bad. But they did say the same thing about Alcohol in the 1940s. It won't be a big issue. Not a big deal. Nothing to be worried about. Of course today we know that alcohol is a contributing factor in tens of millions of crimes every year. 2/3rd of all domestic violence is alcohol related. 40% of all violent crimes, have alcohol as a factor.

Is it possible that a decade from now, we'll see similar problems related to pot? It's possible... is it not?

No, a year is not enough time. But it's all we have.

However people were making judgements about would definitely happen, and it hasn't happened.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Nobody goes to jail for possession of under an oz of weed. That's what has been legalized.

Everything else is the same. It's still illegal to grow with intent to sell. It's still a felony to possess more than 40 oz. It's still illegal to possess any amount for minors. And they've added a Draconian new DUI rule of 5 nanograms per liter of blood, so now you can get a DUI for having smoked weed yesterday.

So, there may be valid reasons why crime is going down in CO. Ganja legalization ain't it.

Furthermore, the taxes aren't what people expected. The revenues are coming up way short, and the taxes are keeping the black market afloat.

And really, why would you buy a taxed product when you can just get your medical card for whatever ( headaches, depression, PMS ) and grow a few plants in your back yard?

Sorry, but it's not illegal to grow it or sell it in Colorado any longer.

You don't know what you're talking about. You still get a felony and up to 5 years in jail and up to $10,000 fine for possession of over 40 oz.

The only things that changed; Over 21 adults can now legally buy up to an ounce from a state licensed provider , or up to a quarter ounce for non-residents. The DUI rules have been made more strict. Every other aspect of prohibition remains the same, including jail sentence guidelines.

Residents Visitors Denver Marijuana Info

 

[boedicca]

Colorado is a "shall issue" state for concealed carry weapons...and permits open carry.

Crime rates are dropping.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

 

[bripat9643]

Nobody goes to jail for possession of under an oz of weed. That's what has been legalized.

Everything else is the same. It's still illegal to grow with intent to sell. It's still a felony to possess more than 40 oz. It's still illegal to possess any amount for minors. And they've added a Draconian new DUI rule of 5 nanograms per liter of blood, so now you can get a DUI for having smoked weed yesterday.

So, there may be valid reasons why crime is going down in CO. Ganja legalization ain't it.

Furthermore, the taxes aren't what people expected. The revenues are coming up way short, and the taxes are keeping the black market afloat.

And really, why would you buy a taxed product when you can just get your medical card for whatever ( headaches, depression, PMS ) and grow a few plants in your back yard?

Sorry, but it's not illegal to grow it or sell it in Colorado any longer.

You don't know what you're talking about. You still get a felony and up to 5 years in jail and up to $10,000 fine for possession of over 40 oz.

The only things that changed; Over 21 adults can now legally buy up to an ounce from a state licensed provider , or up to a quarter ounce for non-residents. The DUI rules have been made more strict. Every other aspect of prohibition remains the same, including jail sentence guidelines.

Residents Visitors Denver Marijuana Info

Drug policy of Colorado - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Since the enactment of Colorado Amendment 64 in November 2012, adults aged 21 or older can grow up to six cannabis plants (with no more than half being mature flowering plants) privately in a locked space, legally possess all cannabis from the plants they grow (as long as it stays where it was grown),[1][2] legally possess up to one ounce of cannabis while traveling,[3] and give as a gift up to one ounce to other citizens 21 years of age or older.[4] Consumption is permitted in a manner similar to alcohol, with equivalent offenses proscribed for driving.[5] Consumption in public remains illegal.[6][7][8] Amendment 64 also provides for licensing of cultivation facilities, product manufacturing facilities, testing facilities, and retail stores.[9] Visitors and tourists in Colorado can use and purchase marijuana, but can not take it out of the state, and it is prohibited at Denver International Airport.[10]
​

BTW, 40 OZs of weed is over a pound of the stuff. That's a lot of weed.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You know where else violence is lowered with drugs?

Mental hospitals & prisons.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Colorado is a "shall issue" state for concealed carry weapons...and permits open carry.

Crime rates are dropping.

Coincidence? I doubt it.

But then again the point here is that people were predicting an increase in crime. And guns probably don't stop all crimes from happening anyway.

 

[MaxGrit]

Prohibition