Zone1 Creationism and science

[Sayaras]

The argument:
You can believe that the world was created 5,000+ years and still believe God created the world then [Gen.1:1-10], already in a stage as if it were "millions of years " per science.

 

[Hafar1014]

The argument:
You can believe that the world was created 5,000+ years and still believe God created the world then [Gen.1:1-10], already in a stage as if it were "millions of years " per science.

Genesis an allegory does in fact describe evolution as two very different Adams. Primitive in the beginning and advanced at the end after he acquires mortal values. It also states he is made in Gods likeness potentially devine. He must evolve to achieve that

 

[Sayaras]

Genesis an allegory does in fact describe evolution as two very different Adams. Primitive in the beginning and advanced at the end after he acquires mortal values. It also states he is made in Gods likeness potentially devine. He must evolve to achieve that

Thank you

 

[Votto]

The argument:
You can believe that the world was created 5,000+ years and still believe God created the world then [Gen.1:1-10], already in a stage as if it were "millions of years " per science.

There is also the notion that Genesis is not taken literally enough, that is, from the original Hebrew.

Dr. Gerald Schroeder, a physicist, found Rabbinical writings that indicated that when Genesis was translated in the original Hebrew, they did not believe Genesis was talking about 6 literal days.

The Hebrew words describing the passage of time before man was created, was different from the Hebrew words for the passage of time after man was created.

In fact, the King James Version actually got one translation correct in Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

I'm not much of an expert on language, but it seems to me that you need more than 6 days to get a generation.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There is also the notion that Genesis is not taken literally enough, that is, from the original Hebrew.

Dr. Gerald Schroeder, a physicist, found Rabbinical writings that indicated that when Genesis was translated in the original Hebrew, they did not believe Genesis was talking about 6 literal days.

The Hebrew words describing the passage of time before man was created, was different from the Hebrew words for the passage of time after man was created.

In fact, the King James Version actually got one translation correct in Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

I'm not much of an expert on language, but it seems to me that you need more than 6 days to get a generation.

Creation took place before the Book of Knowledge was opened

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yeah, I guess when you cherry pick like a Mexican farm worker, you'll come to any stupid ******* conclusion you want.

Melissa Hortman was killed by Vance Luther Boelter who "preached more than once in a church in the DRC, speaking against abortion rights and transgender people."

2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in Oklahoma

Right-wing extremist violence is more frequent and more deadly than left-wing violence − what the data shows

Donald Trump and top administration officials confidently assert that left-wing political violence is a huge problem in the US. They’re wrong, say researchers who study extremism.

theconversation.com

"it’s clear that the president’s and Miller’s assertions about political violence from the left are not based on actual facts."

"we can confidently say that most domestic terrorists in the U.S. are politically on the right, and right-wing attacks account for the vast majority of fatalities from domestic terrorism."

Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Anti-abortion violence"

"

• In 1993, Michael F. Griffin shot Dr. David Gunn to death during a protest.
• In 1994, Paul Jennings Hill shot Dr. John Britton and clinic escort James Barrett to death, also wounding Barrett's wife June; John Salvi shot and killed two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols. Paul Hill would yell at the clinic "God hates murderers".<a href="Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>
• Eric Robert Rudolph bombed the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta in protest of abortion, killing one person and wounding 111, and bombed several abortion clinics in 1997 and 1998, killing a security guard and critically injuring a nurse.
• In 1998, James Kopp shot a number of abortion providers, killing one, Dr. Barnett Slepian.
• In 2009, Scott Roeder shot and killed Dr. George Tiller. Tiller served as an usher at church; he had previously been a target in 1993, when he was shot by Shelley Shannon. The Army of God, an underground terrorist organization, has been responsible for a substantial amount of anti-abortion violence, including a number of the above murders.
• In 2015, Robert Lewis Dear, a 57-year-old Kentucky born, moved from South Carolina to North Carolina to Colorado where he opened fire on a Planned Parenthood facility, killing two civilians and a police officer. After a five-hour standoff Dear told the police "no more baby parts." Robert Lewis Dear has been found to be mentally incompetent to stand trial."

"In July 2020, the FBI began investigating the alleged attempted lynching of Vauhxx Booker, a Bloomington Indiana civil rights activist and local official."

"Right-wing terrorism or far-right terrorism is motivated by a variety of different right-wing and far-right ideologies, most prominently by neo-Nazism, neo-fascism, white nationalism, white separatism, ethnonationalism, religious nationalism, and anti-government patriot/sovereign citizen beliefs."

"A 2017 report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that of the 85 deadly extremist incidents since 9/11, far right-wing extremist groups were responsible for 73%, while radical Islamist extremists were responsible for 27%. "

"A June 2020 study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reported that over 25 years of domestic terrorism incidents, the majority of attacks and plots had come from far-right attackers. The trend had accelerated in recent years, with this sector responsible for about 66% of attacks and plots in 2019, and 90% of those in 2020. The next most potentially dangerous group was "religious extremists", the majority "Salafi jihadists inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaida", while the number planned by the far left had reduced to a minute fraction since the mid-2000s."

The problem here is people like your idiot president, they don't want to know the truth, they want to create a new truth by saying lies enough that people believe them.

Pro-Life Is Pro-Death

To be logically consistent, Christofascists have to also oppose abortion to save the life of "the mother." According to their dogma, that would be First Degree murder to prevent the lesser crime of Negligent Manslaughter.

And even letting the pregnant woman die wouldn't be admitted as a crime, because it would be "leaving it in the hands of God," and God has dominion over who should live and who should die. They will never charge Him with baby-killing when He allows miscarriages.

 

[ding]

The argument:
You can believe that the world was created 5,000+ years and still believe God created the world then [Gen.1:1-10], already in a stage as if it were "millions of years " per science.

Not me. I can't believe that. What would the purpose be? Why would it need to be done that way?

 

[ding]

Genesis an allegory does in fact describe evolution as two very different Adams. Primitive in the beginning and advanced at the end after he acquires mortal values. It also states he is made in Gods likeness potentially devine. He must evolve to achieve that

Genesis does describe evolution allegorically but not in the way you are proposing. Genesis describes events unfolding in a sequential fashion over time after the universe was created.

The problem is some people have too narrow of a view of evolution. Evolution is anything which moves from a less complex state to a more complex state. It isn't just limited to biological evolution.

 

[Hafar1014]

Genesis does describe evolution allegorically but not in the way you are proposing. Genesis describes events unfolding in a sequential fashion over time after the universe was created.

The problem people have is using too narrow of a view of evolution. Evolution is anything which moves from a less complex state to a more complex state. It isn't just limited to biological evolution.

No it describes the evolution of Adam from the primitive to the advanced. They dint have word foir evolution but they knew mankind grows and improves.
Evolution is based on fecundity not complexity, the ability to survive and reproduce. Adams development goes beyond that since it involves moral values and lifes meaning. Philosophy is also involved

 

[ding]

Yeah, I guess when you cherry pick like a Mexican farm worker, you'll come to any stupid ******* conclusion you want.

Melissa Hortman was killed by Vance Luther Boelter who "preached more than once in a church in the DRC, speaking against abortion rights and transgender people."

2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in Oklahoma

Right-wing extremist violence is more frequent and more deadly than left-wing violence − what the data shows

Donald Trump and top administration officials confidently assert that left-wing political violence is a huge problem in the US. They’re wrong, say researchers who study extremism.

theconversation.com

"it’s clear that the president’s and Miller’s assertions about political violence from the left are not based on actual facts."

"we can confidently say that most domestic terrorists in the U.S. are politically on the right, and right-wing attacks account for the vast majority of fatalities from domestic terrorism."

Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Anti-abortion violence"

"

• In 1993, Michael F. Griffin shot Dr. David Gunn to death during a protest.
• In 1994, Paul Jennings Hill shot Dr. John Britton and clinic escort James Barrett to death, also wounding Barrett's wife June; John Salvi shot and killed two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols. Paul Hill would yell at the clinic "God hates murderers".<a href="Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>
• Eric Robert Rudolph bombed the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta in protest of abortion, killing one person and wounding 111, and bombed several abortion clinics in 1997 and 1998, killing a security guard and critically injuring a nurse.
• In 1998, James Kopp shot a number of abortion providers, killing one, Dr. Barnett Slepian.
• In 2009, Scott Roeder shot and killed Dr. George Tiller. Tiller served as an usher at church; he had previously been a target in 1993, when he was shot by Shelley Shannon. The Army of God, an underground terrorist organization, has been responsible for a substantial amount of anti-abortion violence, including a number of the above murders.
• In 2015, Robert Lewis Dear, a 57-year-old Kentucky born, moved from South Carolina to North Carolina to Colorado where he opened fire on a Planned Parenthood facility, killing two civilians and a police officer. After a five-hour standoff Dear told the police "no more baby parts." Robert Lewis Dear has been found to be mentally incompetent to stand trial."

"In July 2020, the FBI began investigating the alleged attempted lynching of Vauhxx Booker, a Bloomington Indiana civil rights activist and local official."

"Right-wing terrorism or far-right terrorism is motivated by a variety of different right-wing and far-right ideologies, most prominently by neo-Nazism, neo-fascism, white nationalism, white separatism, ethnonationalism, religious nationalism, and anti-government patriot/sovereign citizen beliefs."

"A 2017 report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that of the 85 deadly extremist incidents since 9/11, far right-wing extremist groups were responsible for 73%, while radical Islamist extremists were responsible for 27%. "

"A June 2020 study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) reported that over 25 years of domestic terrorism incidents, the majority of attacks and plots had come from far-right attackers. The trend had accelerated in recent years, with this sector responsible for about 66% of attacks and plots in 2019, and 90% of those in 2020. The next most potentially dangerous group was "religious extremists", the majority "Salafi jihadists inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaida", while the number planned by the far left had reduced to a minute fraction since the mid-2000s."

The problem here is people like your idiot president, they don't want to know the truth, they want to create a new truth by saying lies enough that people believe them.

You should make a thread on this rather than hijack this thread.

 

[ding]

No it describes the evolution of Adam from the primitive to the advanced. They dint have word foir evolution but they knew mankind grows and improves.
Evolution is based on fecundity not complexity, the ability to survive and reproduce. Adams development goes beyond that since it involves moral values and lifes meaning. Philosophy is also involved

Believe what you want. It's pretty easy to see my beliefs as Genesis 1:3-27 describes events sequentially occurring over time.

 

[teddyearp]

Good thread, it is something I ponder all the time. One amazing thing about the bible is that to really try to understand it, you must always be seeking to understand, while knowing you will NEVER understand all of it on this side of the veil.

One has to realize the perspective in which Genesis was written. It is suggested that Moses was the author of the Torah, the first five books. Genesis all occurred before his lifetime. Put yourself in God's shoes, so to speak. If you had a time machine, how would you explain creation to someone over three thousand years ago? Dinosaur bones? The obvious signs of a global flood? All the while weaving in the story of salvation from the beginning.

The Lord introduced us to science in Genesis 2-19:20. Science has been giving names to all of the things God created ever since. Science is (and should be) after all, just an attempt to understand how God put it all together and how it all works together. But sine we cannot stop killing and hating each other, as shown even in this thread, we use it to create things that murder and destroy, Because that's a big part of what Elohim meant when they said 'let us create mankind in our likeness', we are the only beings created that can in turn create. But limited to only creating from what God already created.

We now are fervently working on creating something in OUR own image and soon we will breath actual life into it. It is already in most all of our hands via our phones, just waiting for that final breath of life.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Genesis does describe evolution allegorically but not in the way you are proposing. Genesis describes events unfolding in a sequential fashion over time after the universe was created.

The problem is some people have too narrow of a view of evolution. Evolution is anything which moves from a less complex state to a more complex state. It isn't just limited to biological evolution.

One Contradiction After Another

Adam hadn't read the Book of Knowledge of Good and Evil yet, so how can he be blamed for eating the apple? Also, he couldn't have even known that disobeying God was evil.

 

[teddyearp]

I

One Contradiction After Another

Adam hadn't read the Book of Knowledge of Good and Evil yet, so how can he be blamed for eating the apple? Also, he couldn't have even known that disobeying God was evil.

It wasn't an apple. Adam was told not to eat that fruit as it was the knowledge of good and evil. So he was warned. Where is this Book of Knowledge of Good and Evil you speak of?

I'll tell you. It's written in your conscience, if one has one. Hehe

 

[ding]

One Contradiction After Another

Adam hadn't read the Book of Knowledge of Good and Evil yet, so how can he be blamed for eating the apple? Also, he couldn't have even known that disobeying God was evil.

Why are you reading it literally?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I

It wasn't an apple. Adam was told not to eat that fruit as it was the knowledge of good and evil. So he was warned. Where is this Book of Knowledge of Good and Evil you speak of?

I'll tell you. It's written in your conscience, if one has one. Hehe

Acadumbdumb

The fable was a warning to Jews that the last time they used practical knowledge to invent things, the rulers of Sumeria gave them none of the profits. That's why they went on to waste their minds in useless religious debates, like this thread is.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Why are you reading it literally?

Adamnation

Because I disagree with the moral of the tale and even its logic. No matter how it is interpreted, it obstructs human progress,

 

[teddyearp]

Acadumbdumb

Huh???? That's not even a word.

 

[ding]

Adamnation

Because I disagree with the moral of the tale and even its logic. No matter how it is interpreted, it obstructs human progress,

The moral of the tale depends on how it is interpreted.

 

[ding]

Acadumbdumb

The fable was a warning to Jews that the last time they used practical knowledge to invent things, the rulers of Sumeria gave them none of the profits. That's why they went on to waste their minds in useless religious debates, like this thread is.

That’s breezewood logic.