Country First - not part of this Senators agenda

[Rotagilla]

Let's first consider the Lincoln Douglas Debates and then focus on the impact Mr. Llncoln's election had on our history.

I said ;

Slavery was fading even before the war of northern aggression. The industrial revolution was beginning and farm animals were beginning to be replaced by machines.

No one ever thought slavery would persist. Not even the leaders of the confederacy.

You said

BULLSHIT

but now you want to talk about lincoln..Make up your mind.
So, it's resolved that even the leaders of the confederacy knew that it would die out...just like I told you originally.

Moving on to the "great emancipator"..LMAO...

My pleasure to show you some lincoln quotes from the lincoln-douglas debate that they didn't teach you in school;
and as a bonus I've included some others that you probably weren't taught in public school

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to Horace Greeley
August 22, 1862

"Negro equality! Fudge!! How long, in the government of a God great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knave to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?"
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Fragments: Notes for Speeches
Sept. 1859 (Vol. III)

"But what shall we do with the Negroes after they are free? I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to General Benjamin F. Butler
March 1865 (Vol. VII)

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, (applause from audience) that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, 4th Debate with Stephan A. Douglas in Illinois
Sept. 1858 (Vol. III)

"Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get an answer out of me to the question whether I am in favor of Negro citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. (applause from audience) He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of Negro citizenship. (renewed applause) If the state of Illinois has the power to grant Negroes citizenship, I shall be opposed to it. (cries of "here, here" and "good, good" from audience) That is all I have to say."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Speech at Sringfield, Illinois
June 1857 (Vol. II)

"In the course of his reply, the Senator remarked that he had always considered this a government made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Speech at Peoria, Illinois
Oct. 1854 (Vol. II)

"I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason why we should at least be separated."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Address on Colonization to a Deputation of
Africans in Washington D.C.
August 1862 (Vol. V)

During the Civil War, Lincoln also organized the Bureau of Emigration within the Department of Interior. The sum was $600,000, a huge amount at the time and considering the tremendous war efforts. This Bureau was appropriated with the recolonization and emigration of the African slaves. Two attempts to do this were made with the actual establishment of a colony at Isle-a-Vache, in Haiti, consisting of 453 slaves transported from Virginia. Later, another attempt failed to colonize them in Colombia, South America.

I'd suggest some history lessons, starting with the New South:

"Industrialization and urbanization also affected the South. Southern merchants, manufacturers, and newspaper editors of the 1880s led the campaign for a “New South,” where Southern industrialism would break the cycle of rural poverty. States provided special breaks for new businesses and promised cheap labor. Birmingham, Alabama, became a railroad and steel center where mills hired black workers.

Southern textile mills opened in the 1880s in the Piedmont region from central Virginia to Alabama. Mill owners depended on low-skilled, low-paid white labor, and their mills attracted workers from rural areas. Workers settled in company towns where entire families worked for the mill. The South replaced New England as the nation’s leading locale for textile mills.

"Overall, however, the campaign to industrialize the South faltered. As late as 1900, only 5 percent of the Southern labor force, most of it white, worked in industry. Furthermore, Southern industry did not enrich the South. Except for the American Tobacco Company, located in North Carolina, Southern industry was owned mainly by Northern financiers.

Note the date, read more here:

The New South - Industrialization and Urbanization - History - USA - North America southern textile right vote southern industry history industrialization usa history

That's nice..none of that refutes the fact that the industrial revolution was occurring and the value of slaves was dropping. Why use farm animals when you have machines that can do the work of 20 without the high upkeep? Slavery wasn't economically sound and the leaders of the confederacy knew it would fade away..

You've proved nothing. The effect of Lincoln's election was immediate, and in response to his assertion to not support the expansion of slavery. You provide no evidence that the South was on the verge of joining the Industrial Revolution, the evidence I provided is probative that even by 1900 they were still on the sidelines.

Oh..now you don't want to talk about lincoln any more and want to change the subject again.

One doesn't "join" or refuse to join the industrial revolution. Machines are invented and they are utilized to advance civilization.

The leaders of the confederacy knew slavery was impractical and would die out.

The war of northern aggression was not fought to free, nor retain the slaves.

 

[bripat9643]

Let's first consider the Lincoln Douglas Debates and then focus on the impact Mr. Llncoln's election had on our history.

I said ;

Slavery was fading even before the war of northern aggression. The industrial revolution was beginning and farm animals were beginning to be replaced by machines.

No one ever thought slavery would persist. Not even the leaders of the confederacy.

You said

BULLSHIT

but now you want to talk about lincoln..Make up your mind.
So, it's resolved that even the leaders of the confederacy knew that it would die out...just like I told you originally.

Moving on to the "great emancipator"..LMAO...

My pleasure to show you some lincoln quotes from the lincoln-douglas debate that they didn't teach you in school;
and as a bonus I've included some others that you probably weren't taught in public school

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to Horace Greeley
August 22, 1862

"Negro equality! Fudge!! How long, in the government of a God great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knave to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?"
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Fragments: Notes for Speeches
Sept. 1859 (Vol. III)

"But what shall we do with the Negroes after they are free? I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to General Benjamin F. Butler
March 1865 (Vol. VII)

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, (applause from audience) that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, 4th Debate with Stephan A. Douglas in Illinois
Sept. 1858 (Vol. III)

"Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get an answer out of me to the question whether I am in favor of Negro citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. (applause from audience) He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of Negro citizenship. (renewed applause) If the state of Illinois has the power to grant Negroes citizenship, I shall be opposed to it. (cries of "here, here" and "good, good" from audience) That is all I have to say."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Speech at Sringfield, Illinois
June 1857 (Vol. II)

"In the course of his reply, the Senator remarked that he had always considered this a government made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Speech at Peoria, Illinois
Oct. 1854 (Vol. II)

"I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason why we should at least be separated."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Address on Colonization to a Deputation of
Africans in Washington D.C.
August 1862 (Vol. V)

During the Civil War, Lincoln also organized the Bureau of Emigration within the Department of Interior. The sum was $600,000, a huge amount at the time and considering the tremendous war efforts. This Bureau was appropriated with the recolonization and emigration of the African slaves. Two attempts to do this were made with the actual establishment of a colony at Isle-a-Vache, in Haiti, consisting of 453 slaves transported from Virginia. Later, another attempt failed to colonize them in Colombia, South America.

I'd suggest some history lessons, starting with the New South:

"Industrialization and urbanization also affected the South. Southern merchants, manufacturers, and newspaper editors of the 1880s led the campaign for a “New South,” where Southern industrialism would break the cycle of rural poverty. States provided special breaks for new businesses and promised cheap labor. Birmingham, Alabama, became a railroad and steel center where mills hired black workers.

Southern textile mills opened in the 1880s in the Piedmont region from central Virginia to Alabama. Mill owners depended on low-skilled, low-paid white labor, and their mills attracted workers from rural areas. Workers settled in company towns where entire families worked for the mill. The South replaced New England as the nation’s leading locale for textile mills.

"Overall, however, the campaign to industrialize the South faltered. As late as 1900, only 5 percent of the Southern labor force, most of it white, worked in industry. Furthermore, Southern industry did not enrich the South. Except for the American Tobacco Company, located in North Carolina, Southern industry was owned mainly by Northern financiers.

Note the date, read more here:

The New South - Industrialization and Urbanization - History - USA - North America southern textile right vote southern industry history industrialization usa history

That's nice..none of that refutes the fact that the industrial revolution was occurring and the value of slaves was dropping. Why use farm animals when you have machines that can do the work of 20 without the high upkeep? Slavery wasn't economically sound and the leaders of the confederacy knew it would fade away..

You've proved nothing. The effect of Lincoln's election was immediate, and in response to his assertion to not support the expansion of slavery. You provide no evidence that the South was on the verge of joining the Industrial Revolution, the evidence I provided is probative that even by 1900 they were still on the sidelines.

ROFL! It's hardly surprising that the Southern economy was lagging when the Union spent four years trying to destroy it. 20 years of "reconstruction" and Yankee carpetbaggers looting the area didn't help either.

 

[Wry Catcher]

1801 Most Famous Senate Speech -- January 26 1830

Read this ^^^, and then follow the link to "Second reply to Hayne".

 

[Rotagilla]

1801 Most Famous Senate Speech -- January 26 1830

Read this ^^^, and then follow the link to "Second reply to Hayne".

Read this;

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Even your boy lincoln said people should be free to chart their own course if the gvt fails them.

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can may revolutionize and make their own of so many of the territory as they inhabit."

Abraham Lincoln
Jan 12, 1848