Could this be true?

[roomy]

.

 

[Annie]

Has this hit a raw nerve or is it just another attempt to attack the majority of americans who feel shame but bury their heads in the sand hoping that it will all go away in order to support their country by not voicing dissention during time of war?

In actuality, all of these have been slammed home, again and again, by the MSM. Where've you been?

 

[Diuretic]

Tony Blair is after you for being tongue in cheeky

 

[Said1]

Tony Blair is after you for being tongue in cheeky

Ew. What a homo.

 

[Diuretic]

No, not Sebastian

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/characters/sebastian.shtml

 

[Said1]

No, not Sebastian

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/characters/sebastian.shtml

AAAAhhhhhhhahahaha. Careless Whisper!


The British press is NASTY.

 

[theHawk]

Every one of those points brought up is a crock of shit.

The WMD "thing" has been beaten to death in the MSM and by the Dems. I guess he is just baffled that Americans are actually able to understand this was only one of many reasons we went to war, but doesn't come out and say that. He'd rather just make it sound like we mindlessly turn a blind eye.

Then, when the Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize in torture, I was sure then the American people would be heard from. We stood mute.

When the "Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced" there were plenty of protests. And I wasn't aware that Abu Ghraib revealed that our government "participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize in torture". Maybe he has Abu Ghraib confused with something else. There was never any torture, only humiliation and photos taken by a few guards, not acting under orders from the government. That entire statement is 100% false.

Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorist suspects, locked them up without the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers. Certainly, we would never stand for that. We did.

They might be "so-called terrorist suspects" to him, but to the rest of us they are terrorists. The whole point of war is the assumption of guilt. This is not an American court of law, its war.

And now, it's been discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic surveillance on its own citizens. You and me. And I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the American people will have had enough. Evidentially, we haven't.

The "executive branch" is not conducting domestic wiretapping, it authorized DoD agencies to. And they did not authorize them against "You and me", but at people directly connected to Al Queda and other terrorists. But it was a nice try at another spin.

The neocons have yet to tell us the real reason for their assault on Iraq, which has so far produced 20,000 dead, maimed, and wounded U.S. soldiers, between 30,000 and 180,000 (and rising) dead Iraqis, and demoralized U.S. Marines to the point that they commit atrocities on women and children.

Actually we have stated them on many times, but liberals just don't like the answers. I especially like the blanket statement at the end that "demoralized U.S.Marines" are at the point were they commit atrocities on women and children.


Is this the best arguments he can come up with?

 

[Abbey Normal]

Roomy, a little thing we call 9/11 happened, and everything changed. In many ways, we're not the same America.

 

[P&CA admin]

Roomy, a little thing we call 9/11 happened, and everything changed. In many ways, we're not the same America.

Which is a pity...I loved the old America..
I just wish we'd stop using September 11th as a blanket excuse for forgetting our countries history...How hard the originators...the founding fathers worked to make this such a wonderful country...
We've had horrible things in our past...Pearl Harbor...the great quake of 1916...Katrina...and IMO Katrina was worse then planes hitting buildings...
We failed our fellow countrymen...Maybe if we had some of those guardsmen that are in Iraq helping our own people on our own soil....maybe we might not have looked like complete failures across the globe..
I do love my country even though some would view my opinion as "Liberal"...because I do not agree with the war in Iraq...never have...I believe we should have been taking care of our own..making sure we are prepared for NATURAL disasters instead of keeping an eye out for the boogey man..
BTW....September 11th did not just affect America...another thing we tend not to pay attention to...it happened on our soil but weren't there like 200 other countries impacted on that day? Visitors to NYC ...travellers to the Capital?Yet, we say everything changed on that day..
To be honest the biggest change I have seen is in my fellow Americans...Fearing thier own shadows..and that is so very sad...
Sorry...went off into my own thoughts there..
I just really dislike September 11th being the excuse for everything

 

[dilloduck]

Which is a pity...I loved the old America..
I just wish we'd stop using September 11th as a blanket excuse for forgetting our countries history...How hard the originators...the founding fathers worked to make this such a wonderful country...
We've had horrible things in our past...Pearl Harbor...the great quake of 1916...Katrina...and IMO Katrina was worse then planes hitting buildings...
We failed our fellow countrymen...Maybe if we had some of those guardsmen that are in Iraq helping our own people on our own soil....maybe we might not have looked like complete failures across the globe..
I do love my country even though some would view my opinion as "Liberal"...because I do not agree with the war in Iraq...never have...I believe we should have been taking care of our own..making sure we are prepared for NATURAL disasters instead of keeping an eye out for the boogey man..
BTW....September 11th did not just affect America...another thing we tend not to pay attention to...it happened on our soil but weren't there like 200 other countries impacted on that day? Visitors to NYC ...travellers to the Capital?Yet, we say everything changed on that day..
To be honest the biggest change I have seen is in my fellow Americans...Fearing thier own shadows..and that is so very sad...
Sorry...went off into my own thoughts there..
I just really dislike September 11th being the excuse for everything

Fearing our own shadows ??? So there is no terrorist threat to America?

 

[GotZoom]

Which is a pity...I loved the old America..
I just wish we'd stop using September 11th as a blanket excuse for forgetting our countries history...How hard the originators...the founding fathers worked to make this such a wonderful country...
We've had horrible things in our past...Pearl Harbor...the great quake of 1916...Katrina...and IMO Katrina was worse then planes hitting buildings...
We failed our fellow countrymen...Maybe if we had some of those guardsmen that are in Iraq helping our own people on our own soil....maybe we might not have looked like complete failures across the globe..
I do love my country even though some would view my opinion as "Liberal"...because I do not agree with the war in Iraq...never have...I believe we should have been taking care of our own..making sure we are prepared for NATURAL disasters instead of keeping an eye out for the boogey man..
BTW....September 11th did not just affect America...another thing we tend not to pay attention to...it happened on our soil but weren't there like 200 other countries impacted on that day? Visitors to NYC ...travellers to the Capital?Yet, we say everything changed on that day..
To be honest the biggest change I have seen is in my fellow Americans...Fearing thier own shadows..and that is so very sad...
Sorry...went off into my own thoughts there..
I just really dislike September 11th being the excuse for everything

You can't be serious.

Katrina worse than 9/11?

A natural disaster is worse than terrorists flying our airplanes into our buildings killing nearly 3000 people, mostly our people.

Step back from the kool-aid.

 

[P&CA admin]

You can't be serious.

Katrina worse than 9/11?

A natural disaster is worse than terrorists flying our airplanes into our buildings killing nearly 3000 people, mostly our people.

Step back from the kool-aid.

I don't drink kool aid...I stated my opinion...you disagree...which is your right...but when do we stop making excuses for acting like chicken little?
How long can you use september 11th as an excuse for why our country is so afraid of everything?
Terrorists...have YOU forgotten Oklahoma city? There were people killed there too...by fellow Americans...but that's ok...we should forget about that eh?
We lost more American lives in Pearl Harbor...We still haven't been able to help those who lost everything from Katrina...and you think 3,000 people will change the world forever?Apparently being bombed by the Japanese didn't do that...why should WE give that kind of power to terrorists...why should we let them scare us from being ourselves?
When do you say enough is enough and I'm not gonna take it any more...why would you let fear of what "might" happen control your life...if you do that then the terrorists WIN...they have you running scared...I am NOT scared..I live in a big ass city which was probably a target ...but I am not going to lock myself in and give some bastard that kind of power over my life...if you want to by all means...but September 11th was a freak success for them...
How can you not think that what happened before...during and after Katrina not being a horrible disaster...it doesn't matter that mother nature caused it..it showed not only the American people how uunprepared we are/were
it also showed the rest of the world...for weeks they showed people stranded and some still have no place to go...We send our guardsmen to another country to spread democracy when we should have them here where they belong...Key word in the term National guard...being here in our nation and protecting our land..people ...Call me an insensitive person but fuck the Iraqis ...we need them here to help with our borders as well as helping our OWN citizens...If we were at full force last year when Katrina hit...do you not think that it might not have been as horrid in the end as it was?
BTW...I wonder if there are any posters here who lived in Louisianna who think after losing everything...home...job..and possibly a family member if september 11th was worse for them or the hell of living after a cat 5 hurricane...BTW..I lost someone that day in September...someone very close to me..so don't give me any bullshit..Knowing the person I lost ...they would be saddened to see what has happened to the country he loved so much since the tragedy of that day...but as he would say life goes on...his wife is managing it...I figure I honor him by living my life the same as I did the day before it happened...I'm not willing to let a shadow scare me...I only have this life to live and I am to let someone else stop me from it...by being scared...

 

[P&CA admin]

Fearing our own shadows ??? So there is no terrorist threat to America?

Show me where I said that...Fearing our shadows is true...but I did not say there was NO threat to America...

 

[Diuretic]

I only have this life to live and I am to let someone else stop me from it...by being scared...

Beautifully put!

 

[jillian]

I don't drink kool aid...I stated my opinion...you disagree...which is your right...but when do we stop making excuses for acting like chicken little?
How long can you use september 11th as an excuse for why our country is so afraid of everything?
Terrorists...have YOU forgotten Oklahoma city? There were people killed there too...by fellow Americans...but that's ok...we should forget about that eh?
We lost more American lives in Pearl Harbor...We still haven't been able to help those who lost everything from Katrina...and you think 3,000 people will change the world forever?Apparently being bombed by the Japanese didn't do that...why should WE give that kind of power to terrorists...why should we let them scare us from being ourselves?
When do you say enough is enough and I'm not gonna take it any more...why would you let fear of what "might" happen control your life...if you do that then the terrorists WIN...they have you running scared...I am NOT scared..I live in a big ass city which was probably a target ...but I am not going to lock myself in and give some bastard that kind of power over my life...if you want to by all means...but September 11th was a freak success for them...
How can you not think that what happened before...during and after Katrina not being a horrible disaster...it doesn't matter that mother nature caused it..it showed not only the American people how uunprepared we are/were
it also showed the rest of the world...for weeks they showed people stranded and some still have no place to go...We send our guardsmen to another country to spread democracy when we should have them here where they belong...Key word in the term National guard...being here in our nation and protecting our land..people ...Call me an insensitive person but fuck the Iraqis ...we need them here to help with our borders as well as helping our OWN citizens...If we were at full force last year when Katrina hit...do you not think that it might not have been as horrid in the end as it was?
BTW...I wonder if there are any posters here who lived in Louisianna who think after losing everything...home...job..and possibly a family member if september 11th was worse for them or the hell of living after a cat 5 hurricane...BTW..I lost someone that day in September...someone very close to me..so don't give me any bullshit..Knowing the person I lost ...they would be saddened to see what has happened to the country he loved so much since the tragedy of that day...but as he would say life goes on...his wife is managing it...I figure I honor him by living my life the same as I did the day before it happened...I'm not willing to let a shadow scare me...I only have this life to live and I am to let someone else stop me from it...by being scared...

While I agree we shouldn't use 9/11 to excuse every action. More people were killed in the WTC attacks then in Pearl Harbor.

On Sunday morning, December 7h, 1941, Japan attacked the American Pacific Fleet stationed at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. 2300 people were killed and eight battleships and numerous cruisers were damaged or destroyed.

http://www.historyguide.org/europe/pearl.html

Not to mention the fact that Pearl, as bad as it was, was a military target. It wasn't a bunch of civilians having their morning coffee at work.

I am curious, though, as to why you think Katrina was worse than the attack. Katrina was bad and was handled incompetently, but I thought that was kind of a strange thing to say.

 

[dilloduck]

Show me where I said that...Fearing our shadows is true...but I did not say there was NO threat to America...

The whole argument is about fear--I guess you are more afraid of our intelligence agencies than you are of terrorism.

 

[P&CA admin]

The whole argument is about fear--I guess you are more afraid of our intelligence agencies than you are of terrorism.

I think our intelligence agency SUCKS...I also think the arguement for fighting them there instead of here is a load of bunk too...
Tell me honestly that in the past 5 years we US citizens have not been put under scare tactics?
Every time the wind blew or there was an election we'd raise the terror threat..
How convienient...
I am not afraid of the CIA...FBI...or NSA...I am also not afraid of being attacked by a terrorist..
If it's my time to go ...it's my time to go...and walking around leering at my fellow Americans to make sure thier shoes do not ignite is not on the top of my list of things to do...
Now to Jillian...
Katrina was worse in my opinion simply because you still have thousands of people displaced...without a home..without a job...This is 9 months after this disaster...and it did not only affect Louisianna...it hit Mississippi too...and parts of Alabama if I am not mistaken (then again I could be cause I live in the midwest and do not have first hand knowledge of the hurricane) .
Like I said thousands of our fellow Americans have become homeless...jobless and lost...somewhat forgotten IMO...
This was not 3,000 people...more like hundreds of thousands were affected...
Which if you are strictly looking at the numbers is staggering...
Like I said before..I wonder if there are any posters here on USMB that got displaced because of the hurricane...lost everything...How they feel about thier situation...
As I stated I lost a very dear friend on Spetember 11th...he left behind a wife and 2 beautiful girls...She has had a very rough time living her life again but realizes he would want her to thrive...When the politicians use the event for strictly politics it make her sick...she feels they are USING the tragedy...
I wonder if any of you know this feeling...Having the death of your loved one thrown at you whenever it suits a political purpose...
We use September 11th for everything... I am just tired of it is all...and you would think a lot more people would be too...
Learn from it...remember it...but do not carry it around as a crutch to excuse certain behavior...then you see...the terrorsits do WIN...we let them know daily how much they have won by showing them the type of power they gained over us because of 1 day in history...Remember yes...but stop using it for political purposes...

 

[manu1959]

Has this hit a raw nerve or is it just another attempt to attack the majority of americans who feel shame but bury their heads in the sand hoping that it will all go away in order to support their country by not voicing dissention during time of war?

the article is wrong....the san francisco bay area has protested all of these issues fairly regularly....it would seem however the majority of americans would prefer that those that have caused harm or may cause harm to our country are getting what they deserve.....there are many that belive the deserve even more

 

[jillian]

Now to Jillian...
Katrina was worse in my opinion simply because you still have thousands of people displaced...without a home..without a job...This is 9 months after this disaster...and it did not only affect Louisianna...it hit Mississippi too...and parts of Alabama if I am not mistaken (then again I could be cause I live in the midwest and do not have first hand knowledge of the hurricane) .
Like I said thousands of our fellow Americans have become homeless...jobless and lost...somewhat forgotten IMO...
This was not 3,000 people...more like hundreds of thousands were affected...
Which if you are strictly looking at the numbers is staggering...
Like I said before..I wonder if there are any posters here on USMB that got displaced because of the hurricane...lost everything...How they feel about thier situation...

I understand what you're saying. But with 9/11, there was the additional element of suddenly feeling unsafe in one's environment...having National Guard with automatic weapons checking buses going in and out of the city and around target areas. There is also the continued sense of not knowing when or where the next shoe will drop, not to mention the fact that rescue workers who worked the "pile" are now starting to get ill and die.

As I stated I lost a very dear friend on Spetember 11th...he left behind a wife and 2 beautiful girls...She has had a very rough time living her life again but realizes he would want her to thrive...When the politicians use the event for strictly politics it make her sick...she feels they are USING the tragedy...
I wonder if any of you know this feeling...Having the death of your loved one thrown at you whenever it suits a political purpose...
We use September 11th for everything... I am just tired of it is all...and you would think a lot more people would be too...
Learn from it...remember it...but do not carry it around as a crutch to excuse certain behavior...then you see...the terrorsits do WIN...we let them know daily how much they have won by showing them the type of power they gained over us because of 1 day in history...Remember yes...but stop using it for political purposes...

I'm sorry you lost your friend and for his wife and children. I hear stories like this all the time and, quite frankly, don't know anyone who didn't lose someone that day or know someone who did....

Believe me, I don't think it should be used as a crutch, nor as a constant rallying cry to excuse governmental misfeasance or abuse. I was just wondering about your statement. Thanks for responding.

 

[Diuretic]

The whole argument is about fear--I guess you are more afraid of our intelligence agencies than you are of terrorism.

That's not a bad thing. Both represent force.

Here's a clue. Go and read - or re-read - George Orwell's "Ninteen Eighty-Four". Read it very carefully. And as you read it think of what America is undergoing right now. Try to keep an open mind on it. Read Orwell's description of Winston Smith's society. As you read it think of the fact that Orwell was a committed British Leftist who had woken up to what was really happening in the USSR under Comrade General Secretary Stalin and how the British Left not only disputed the truth of what Orwell was telling them but which actively demonised him for doing so. Look at Winston Smith's society. Try and do this without partisan politics simmering in your mind. And when you get to the end of it think about Orwell's other popular work, "Animal Farm" and meld the two together. Think of "four legs good, two legs bad" and then meld it with the vision of the pigs looking more and more like humans.

A clear-minded and informed citizenry is a bulwark against tyranny of any sort.