Could The Trinity Doctrine Be Wrong?

[Thors Provoni]

Tertullian was the first to use the term TRINITY - originally it was Father - Word - and Holy Ghost. Tertullian later went Montanist on us - and later Trinitarians used FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT. The Cappadocians - Basil, his brother Gregory - and his other brother Gregory, were BIG CHEESES of the Trinity (one actual brother Greg - one spiritual brother Greg

 

[Thors Provoni]

Cappadocian Fathers - Wikipedia
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en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Cappadocian_Fathers
The Cappadocian Fathers, also traditionally known as the Three Cappadocians, are Basil the Great, who was bishop of Caesarea; Basil's younger brother Gregory of Nyssa, who was bishop of Nyssa; and a close friend, Gregory of Nazianzus, who became Patriarch of Constantinople

 

[Thors Provoni]

I go to one board which is pretty much hostile to Trinitarians. I mean far from Potterhead saying "non-trinitarianism might be true" - this one board has those who outright hate Trinitarians' guts. Our actual guts! I refer to the Trinity-bashers as "non-trinnie ninnies" and "Not Godder Plodders" and expect banning imminently.

 

[Thors Provoni]

" How can Jesus not know when He's coming back and He's supposedly the creator Himself in human form when His spirit form does? Honestly, I know the trinity is very important no matter how you look at it, but now I'm not sure what to believe anymore. :/"

The Son - while He walked the earth before being ascended and glorified - "didn't know what only the Father knew" - that doesn't mean the Son doesn't know NOW. I think the Son does know NOW.

 

[SweetSue92]

This actually sounds like it could be the more I think about it.

Be very leery of people who step into deep mysteries by saying "I have recently been led" and then attempt to dispel it. I was out right there.

I'll put it another way.

Do I understand how God can be God, the Three in One? No. But. God claims He is love from eternity. Love needs someone to love. From eternity, God had these to love: God the Spirit and God the son.

No other religion claims this, to my knowledge, a religion that is monotheistic and yet has others to love.

When the haters come and tell you this is impossible, ask them about quantum mechanics and all the other newest discoveries in theoretical physics. And then smile.

 

[SweetSue92]

Another really good point that Clyde just made in different words. If Mary was truly a part of the trinity she would be sinless,.. and Catholics on this thread can argue with me until they're blue in the face but Mary was a sinner. For if she was sinless, she could have just have easily been the ultimate sacrifice for our sins, but she wasn't. It's also called the trinity for a reason, because it means three. The Father, Son, and The Holy Ghost. Otherwise, it would be the holy quartet.

I know many Catholic people who are lovely. My advice would be do not get twisted up in Catholic teachings about Mary that do not appear in the Bible. She was not sinless; we have no evidence that she was a perpetual virgin (? Why would she need to be? She was a married woman) and we most certainly should not be praying to her. We have one intercessor to God, and that is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Every born again Christian is named as one of the "saints". We will all be given crowns according to our deeds on that day--but by Jesus, not by The Church or whatever.

As I said, Catholics can be lovely, God-fearing and Christ-honoring people. I know many including some in my family. However their Church? A little wonky with Mary, the Saints and etc.

 

[Meriweather]

Wait, even though Mary's the mother of Jesus, only the Catholics believe that she should be worshipped with the Father and Son. Although, I do believe that Catholicism is the oldest religion so other religions might of originally believed in that as well before branching of from it.

That is not Catholic belief nor teaching. Mary is not given a place of worship, but a place of honor, like many other Saints.

 

[Meriweather]

Then why do they pray to her? (I'm not bashing their religion btw, I think it's a legit question.)

Catholics believe we are and remain the Body of Christ. Asking Mary, the Saints, or even a family member who has passed on is the same as asking a friend or family member who has not passed on to pray with us. This follows Jesus' teaching that whenever two or more are gathered in his name, he is there, too.

 

[Meriweather]

Why don't they just pray to Him directly though?

We do--all the time. We also gather to pray together as a community. And...we gather as a family, or with a friend (whether living or passed on) and pray. We place that much emphasis on both the power and beauty of prayer.

 

[DudleySmith]

It is known by historians and archeologists that they plagiarized the death scene from the passion play of Bel (Baal) -as found in ancient tablets housed in the British museum.
They borrowed the Baal birthdate (Dec 25), borrowed the Canaanite mythology of Athtar the Fierce where the son (morning star) has to die to surpass his father Baal on the throne.
And to this day they use the Baal sun cross, Baal's father Dagon's fishgod ring the Pope wears, fishead hats (mitres), and fish scale robes of Baal priests, and the incense tools & smoke used depicted in ancient tablets depicting Baal priests.
So it should be of no surprise they used the Mystery Babylon religion's trinity of
God/Godess/Son
The holy trinity is mystery Babylon was revealed as Baal(father), Isis (mother), Morning star (son) who is the myth plagiarized masking worship of the father as 1 in the same mythology.
=(father and son are one[in the same])
Thus Rev 22:16 they admit this masked trinity
Claiming Jesus (as morning star) which makes the father Baal not YHWH.

lol rubbish. They used a modern calendar back then, before there even was a 'December'? lol that's rich.

 

[SweetSue92]

Catholics believe we are and remain the Body of Christ. Asking Mary, the Saints, or even a family member who has passed on is the same as asking a friend or family member who has not passed on to pray with us. This follows Jesus' teaching that whenever two or more are gathered in his name, he is there, too.

We are not to call forth the spirits of the dead:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune-telling, or use sorcery, or interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells, or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.

 

[Meriweather]

We are not to call forth the spirits of the dead:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune-telling, or use sorcery, or interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells, or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.

We give more emphasis to Christ who said that God is the God of the living. Nor do we call forth spirits because both the living and the dead make up the Body of Christ.

Calling forth a spirit has more to do with that spirit having the power to do something on his/her own, not through Christ (who wasn't even known when Deuteronomy was written).

 

[SweetSue92]

We give more emphasis to Christ who said that God is the God of the living. Nor do we call forth spirits because both the living and the dead make up the Body of Christ.

Calling forth a spirit has more to do with that spirit having the power to do something on his/her own, not through Christ (who wasn't even known when Deuteronomy was written).

"We give 'more' emphasis to Christ..."???

You seem like a wonderful person, but that is a problem. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Meriweather]

"We give 'more' emphasis to Christ..."???

You seem like a wonderful person, but that is a problem. I'll just leave it at that.

Yes, to Christ and what he said about God being the God of the living, which is easy to understand. The Body of Christ is family joined together--no calling forth a spirit any more than calling on a living member for prayers is "calling forth" that person.

An example Deuteronomy comes into play would be a Seance, and Catholics do frown on that. Difference is night and day.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I feel there were no "other children of Mary".

I feel Joseph had sons and daughters by a previous wife who passed away. There is no way to "prove" this - but many people believe it.

The ProtoEvangelium of James is a non-canonical work which gets some of this right - yet it pictures the Wise Men at the Manger - whereas the Bible says the Magi found the young child Jesus "in a house".

The only time that Virgin Mary is ever in the compnay of James, Jude, 2 more brothers and at least 2 sisters happenned to be the occasion where Jesus' family thought His cheese had slid off His cracker - and people told Jesus "Your Mother and Brothers and Sisters are looking for you" - leading Jesus to say " Who are my Mother - Brothers - Sisters? They who do the will of the Father are my Mother-Brothers- and sisters."

At this incident we assume Joseph has already died. At the crucifixion - Jesus commends Mother Mary's care to the Apostle John - the only one who remained present throughout the crucifixion., and also the only disiciple who lived out a natural lifespan, whereas If Mary truly birthed James-Jude et al - one of them could have taken care of Mary - whereas Jesus in fact commended her to John of Zebedee, and Mother Mary lived with John from then on.

People talk of Cathlic Catholic Catholic Catholic as if there never were such a thing as Greek Orthodox and Coptic - this is erroneous - Catholic were not any OLDER or any more ORIGINAL or "earlier" than Orthodox. If anything, Catholics were the schismatics, breaking away from the several patriarchs.

There is also the fact that ADELPHOI in Greek can mean 'close relative' and need not mean SIBLING.

There is nothing that destroys a "Perpetual Virginity of Mary" - though for me as a Protestant there is nothing that requires it either, but 1500 years of the doctrine before Protestants came on the scene should not lightly be tossed aside.

Interesting post but the Greek Orthodox broke away from the Catholic church it's well known and documented unless you have some other proof ?

 

[ding]

This actually sounds like it could be the more I think about it.

The Trinity is not a mystery to be solved. The Trinity is a relationship to be entered into.

 

[ding]

So she found another one of the gazillion contradictions in the bible. Doesn't matter. All the other contradictions are routinely ignored. Why would this one be any different?

 

[ding]

Then why do they pray to her? (I'm not bashing their religion btw, I think it's a legit question.)

We don't. We ask her to pray for us just like you would ask someone else to pray for you.

 

[ding]

To get to Jesus.

Good Lord. Seriously?

 

[ding]

They prey like they used to when they were pagans. The Bible clearly states how to pray and it doesn't include the family of Jesus, Jesus or any of the other characters added later called saints.

I doubt there is anything you see clearly.