Could the Soviets had taken Europe after the unconditional surrender of Germany?

[AZrailwhale]

You are not correct. The Zero out turned the P-40 by a large margin. It also outclimbed it.

The P-40 pilots were trained to make diving hit and run attacks because they could out dive ANY Japanese plane. And, for the record, the majority of airplanes the AVG faced were Nates, and Claudes. There were TWO Zero's in China for evaluation purposes.

Above three hundred mph, nearly every allied fighter could out turn the Zero or the Oscar. However the P-40s and F4Fs could barely exceed three hundred mph in level flight so attempting a high speed turn resulted the the Zero’s wingmen being in position to kill the American. Tommy Mcquire was killed dogfighting an Oscar at low altitude in a P-38 WITH HIS DROP TANKS still on. He apparently didn’t give that a second thought and seems to have done it often to extend his flights while trying to catch up with Dick Bong’s 40 kill score.

There were at least fifteen Zeros flying in China but the AVG mostly faced Nate’s and Oscars. China was mostly a Japan Army Air Force theater. Pre Pearl Harbor the IJNAF did operate in China. The AVG didn’t begin combat operations until December 20th, 1941 and that was over Rangoon Burma, not China.

 

[westwall]

I’m talking COMBAT RADIUS, not range. Combat radius is fuel to get to the target, attack it and return. The actual range of a B-29 carrying 12,000 pounds of bombs was 3,250 miles. By comparison the combat radius of the B-17 was under 800 miles.

Combat radius of the B-17 was 1000 miles out, 1000 miles back. Ferry range was around 3250 miles.

 

[Mushroom]

I’m talking COMBAT RADIUS, not range. Combat radius is fuel to get to the target, attack it and return. The actual range of a B-29 carrying 12,000 pounds of bombs was 3,250 miles.

And that was not even close to the distance to the Urals and back.

So still a fail.

 

[westwall]

Above three hundred mph, nearly every allied fighter could out turn the Zero or the Oscar. Tommy Mcquire was killed dogfighting an Oscar at low altitude WITH HIS DROP TANKS still on. He apparently didn’t give that a second thought and seems to have done it often to extend his flights while trying to catch up with Dick Bong’s 40 kill score

Yeah, he was KILLED. In other words he fucked up and his plane could not do as you claim. It is well known that the vulnerabilities of the Zero were no armor, no self sealing fuel tanks, and light weight which meant it couldn't dive worth a damn, and it would break apart if hit with a good burst.

Your factoids are simply wrong.

 

[Mushroom]

Above three hundred mph, nearly every allied fighter could out turn the Zero or the Oscar.

Which means absolutely nothing, in addition to not being true. And no, not "every Allied fighter", in fact damned few fighters ever matched the Zero in turn radius. Also, almost all air to air combat took place at no more than 275 mph. That is because the higher your speed, the greater your turn radius.

What allowed the US pilots to defeat the Zero was superior tactics, and the fact that US fighters were heavily armored while the Japanese fighters were lightly armored.

But please, give us a reference telling us all about how had the turn radius was for the Zero. I would love a good laugh.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Which means absolutely nothing, in addition to not being true. And no, not "every Allied fighter", in fact damned few fighters ever matched the Zero in turn radius. Also, almost all air to air combat took place at no more than 275 mph. That is because the higher your speed, the greater your turn radius.

What allowed the US pilots to defeat the Zero was superior tactics, and the fact that US fighters were heavily armored while the Japanese fighters were lightly armored.

But please, give us a reference telling us all about how had the turn radius was for the Zero. I would love a good laugh.

In a low speed turn, you are correct. Above three hundred mph you are wrong. But boom and zoom was the best way to fight any Axis fighter in an American one.

 

[Mushroom]

Above three hundred mph you are wrong.

And, do you happen to know why that was? Because I actually do know why.

But it is still considered by most experts as the most nimble fighter aircraft of the war. Ultimately what doomed it as was said by Westwall and myself. Having no armor, and no sealing fuel tanks.

Certainly not turning radius at a speed almost never used in combat.

 

[AZrailwhale]

And, do you happen to know why that was? Because I actually do know why.

But it is still considered by most experts as the most nimble fighter aircraft of the war. Ultimately what doomed it as was said by Westwall and myself. Having no armor, and no sealing fuel tanks.

Certainly not turning radius at a speed almost never used in combat.

I agree that it was one of the most nimble fighters of its day. And I agree with what doomed it. But that all goes back to the lack of power. I’d even say the Zero was one of the great fighters of its day. It was certainly the best carrier fighter between 1940 and 1942, it didn’t hurt that the IJN pilots were the best in the world at the time.

 

[themirrorthief]

Could the Soviets had taken Europe after the unconditional surrender of Germany?

So at the end of WWII, the Soviets decide to take their massive war machine that they just defeated the Germans with and unleash it on American and British forces.

Could the Soviets have taken Europe?

Sans Britain, cause Britain is an island.

were you aware that by 1945 the americans had nukes AND USED THEM

 

[Mushroom]

But that all goes back to the lack of power.

Lack of power?

Are you aware that in a power to weight ratio, it was more powerful than the Mustang?

You keep obsessing over single things, and ignoring the entire craft. Yes, it was lower "powered", and the engine provided 200 less horsepower than the P-40. However, it also weighed less than half as much, which more than offset the slightly smaller engine. And the engine was half the size of the F4F, but it weighed in at around a third the weight. It was not "underpowered" at all, not even close, as the power per mass figures proves.

That is why almost any stock "crotch rocket" can beat any sports car or even conventional fueled drag car. Because the power per mass figures of a 2 wheeled 1000 cc motorcycle simply blows away most cars.

The thing is, almost every single claim you have tried to make has been completely wrong. Most spectacularly the turn radius but now also about it being "underpowered".

 

[westwall]

Lack of power?

Are you aware that in a power to weight ratio, it was more powerful than the Mustang?

You keep obsessing over single things, and ignoring the entire craft. Yes, it was lower "powered", and the engine provided 200 less horsepower than the P-40. However, it also weighed less than half as much, which more than offset the slightly smaller engine. And the engine was half the size of the F4F, but it weighed in at around a third the weight. It was not "underpowered" at all, not even close, as the power per mass figures proves.

That is why almost any stock "crotch rocket" can beat any sports car or even conventional fueled drag car. Because the power per mass figures of a 2 wheeled 1000 cc motorcycle simply blows away most cars.

The thing is, almost every single claim you have tried to make has been completely wrong. Most spectacularly the turn radius but now also about it being "underpowered".

It is beyond obvious that this person has no clue how aircraft function.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Lack of power?

Are you aware that in a power to weight ratio, it was more powerful than the Mustang?

You keep obsessing over single things, and ignoring the entire craft. Yes, it was lower "powered", and the engine provided 200 less horsepower than the P-40. However, it also weighed less than half as much, which more than offset the slightly smaller engine. And the engine was half the size of the F4F, but it weighed in at around a third the weight. It was not "underpowered" at all, not even close, as the power per mass figures proves.

That is why almost any stock "crotch rocket" can beat any sports car or even conventional fueled drag car. Because the power per mass figures of a 2 wheeled 1000 cc motorcycle simply blows away most cars.

The thing is, almost every single claim you have tried to make has been completely wrong. Most spectacularly the turn radius but now also about it being "underpowered".

The high power to weight ratio was because every possible ounce had been shaved off the aircraft. When the Zero was flying with a seven hundred eighty horsepower engine, the P-36 was flying with a thousand fifty horsepower engine and was only a thousand pounds heavier than the Zero . The Zero had a horsepower per pound ratio of 0.211, the P-36 had a ratio of 0.23. The P-36 and A6M0 were contemporaries Both lacked self-sealing tanks and pilot armor. The A6M2 with the 940 horsepower engine had a ratio of 0.254, slightly better than a P-36A.

 

[westwall]

The high power to weight ratio was because every possible ounce had been shaved off the aircraft. When the Zero was flying with a seven hundred eighty horsepower engine, the P-36 was flying with a thousand fifty horsepower engine and was only a thousand pounds heavier than the Zero . The Zero had a horsepower per pound ratio of 0.211, the P-36 had a ratio of 0.23. The P-36 and A6M0 were contemporaries Both lacked self-sealing tanks and pilot armor. The A6M2 with the 940 horsepower engine had a ratio of 0.254, slightly better than a P-36A.

Aaaaaand you ignore the wing loading, the drag coefficients of the aircraft, the roll rate, etc.

You are so far out of touch with aircraft, and how they function that it isn't funny.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Could the Soviets had taken Europe after the unconditional surrender of Germany?

So at the end of WWII, the Soviets decide to take their massive war machine that they just defeated the Germans with and unleash it on American and British forces.

Could the Soviets have taken Europe?

Sans Britain, cause Britain is an island.

Not even remotely.
By the end of WW II the Russian army was almost completely wore out in every sense of the word.
They were down to their last nub.
The American army was definitely not. Patton wanted to battle Russia all the way back to Russia and give them nothing. If he had his way we probably would have invaded Russia also, which would have been a decades long death machine.
If Russia would have tried to take over Europe, they would have been pounded to a fine powder. There would have hardly been a Russian army left to defend Russia itself.

 

[whitehall]

The Soviet Union was in disarray and it's troops were nothing but cannon fodder and a hoard that the FDR administration and COS George Marshall allowed to take Berlin. Stalin might have been calling the shots in the FDR administration but Russians weren't equipped or skilled or motivated enough to get beyond the looting and pillage of Berlin.

 

[rightwinger]

Not even remotely.
By the end of WW II the Russian army was almost completely wore out in every sense of the word.
They were down to their last nub.
The American army was definitely not. Patton wanted to battle Russia all the way back to Russia and give them nothing. If he had his way we probably would have invaded Russia also, which would have been a decades long death machine.
If Russia would have tried to take over Europe, they would have been pounded to a fine powder. There would have hardly been a Russian army left to defend Russia itself.

Patton was a political moron
That is why he took so long to get promoted

Pattons opinion on the USSR was idiotic

 

[westwall]

Patton was a political moron
That is why he took so long to get promoted

Pattons opinion on the USSR was idiotic

Patton was correct.

 

[rightwinger]

Patton was correct.

Yea…taking on a million man army that was our ally is a great idea

Would have gone over great at home with people tired of war

 

[westwall]

Yea…taking on a million man army that was our ally is a great idea

Would have gone over great at home with people tired of war

So instead of finishing it quick, which we would have, we endured a 40 year cold war with all of the losses, proxy wars, and expense.

All so that the political class could make millions off of the blood and misery of our people.

 

[rightwinger]

So instead of finishing it quick, which we would have, we endured a 40 year cold war with all of the losses, proxy wars, and expense.

All so that the political class could make millions off of the blood and misery of our people.

Imagine that..

Facing a hundred thousand or more additional deaths to prevent a 40 year Cold War that we eventually won