Could the Soviets had taken Europe after the unconditional surrender of Germany?

[AZrailwhale]

"First, it was nearly impossible to perform rolls at moderately high speeds. This meant that forcing the enemy into such a maneuver would confer a tactical advantage to Allied pilots. Second, a poorly designed carburetor caused the engine to sputter badly when the plane was placed into a dive at a high rate of speed. Thus, forcing the Zeroes to dive during a dogfight might make them easy targets for Allied gunners."

The Akutan Zero: How a Captured Japanese Fighter Plane Helped Win World War II

While the Battle of Midway raged, Allied fighters in the Aleutian Islands quietly captured a Japanese fighter plane that helped them win World War II.

www.history.com

I wish you guys would post some links to back up what you're saying. Lots of misinformation out there.

That article has more incorrect information than correct information. No US servicemen had ever heard of the Zero before Pearl Harbor. Claire Chennault had tried to alert the Army brass about the Zero but they ignored him. Yes the Zero racked up impressive kill numbers in China, but it was up against American and Soviet biplanes and some Polikarpov I-16 monoplanes that the Zero outperformed and the Chinese pilots were second or third raters. The Japanese fighter pilots were the finest in the world during the early war period. Most of the Japanese victories were made by pilots flying fixed gear Nakajima Ki-27 Nates and Mitsubishi A5M Claudes. There were few Zeros used in China.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You mean maybe like this one?



Something I found very enjoyable, a 4 hour documentary all about the design, strengths, and weaknesses of the A6M, in addition to conversations with surviving pilots on both sides of the conflict.

And the reason I said no is because of one of the most common tactics of the Japanese in a dogfight. Where they would go into two back to back loops when chased by an American aircraft. And because of the tighter turning radius would come out of the second one behind the American.

The best advice from almost all Allied pilots when facing the Zero was almost always the same though. Just do not even try to dogfight it. Use your speed to get away, or just make a single pass and get out of their range before they can try and pursue you.

That was the same advice given to pilots of any inferior aircraft. Hurricanes against Me-109s- run away, Me-109s against Mustangs or Tempests, same thing. Surviving fighter pilots learn to use their strengths and avoid their weaknesses. In Thunderbolt, Jerry Johnson described how he won dogfights against much better turning Me-109s; instead of attempting to turn with the more maneuverable German, he would use the Thunderbolt’s superb roll rate to roll inside the tighter turning German fighters. The Zero could do three things well, fly far, climb steeply and turn tightly.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Once again, something they never needed to do very often, it was not needed. With their tighter turning radius they used other tactics.

And yes, I am very aware of the report written after the recovery at Dutch Harbor. And how one of the most important suggestions was to just shoot up the wings then fly away at high speed. Without self-sealing fuel tanks that almost guaranteed that the aircraft would eventually go down. And it helped pressure the advance of the F6F Hellcat.

The F4U saw combat against the Japanese before the F6F Hellcat. It easily defeated Zeros by using its superior level and diving speed. The P-38 saw action against the Japanese before the Hellcat as well.

 

[Mushroom]

No US servicemen had ever heard of the Zero before Pearl Harbor. Claire Chennault had tried to alert the Army brass about the Zero but they ignored him.

You realize that is in itself a contradiction, right?

And it was not like the A6M was built in secret, or had never been used before Pearl Harbor.

First you claim that nobody knew about it, then you claim that the commander of the AVG tried to tell the military about it. Both can not be right.

But this is pointless, off the topic, and to be honest I am bored. Simply repeating you are right over and over without anything but your own claims (which contradicts everything even Allied pilots said about it) is not interesting anymore.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You realize that is in itself a contradiction, right?

And it was not like the A6M was built in secret, or had never been used before Pearl Harbor.

First you claim that nobody knew about it, then you claim that the commander of the AVG tried to tell the military about it. Both can not be right.

But this is pointless, off the topic, and to be honest I am bored. Simply repeating you are right over and over without anything but your own claims (which contradicts everything even Allied pilots said about it) is not interesting anymore.

I said no one in the US military knew about it. That’s true. Claire Chennault was retired and on the payroll of Chaing Kai Schek. Chennault was an old China hand and had been operating there for years trying to organize a Chinese air-force without much success. The AVG was only created late in 1941 and didn’t see action until after Pearl Harbor. The AVG wasn’t part of the US military, it was a mercenary unit composed of discharged US military personnel. So both are correct and, as usual, you are wrong. The Zero wasn’t secret, but “everybody” knew the Japanese only flew cheap copies of obsolete western aircraft and their pilots had buck teeth and needed coke bottle bottom eyeglasses.

 

[Mushroom]

I said no one in the US military knew about it.

You also said he wrote a report and it was ignored.

Ignored is not the same thing as not knowing. As I said, this is why I give up, you can not even follow obvious logic and are obsessed.

 

[Mushroom]

Chennault was an old China hand and had been operating there for years trying to organize a Chinese air-force without much success. The AVG was only created late in 1941 and didn’t see action until after Pearl Harbor. The AVG wasn’t part of the US military, it was a mercenary unit composed of discharged US military personnel. So both are correct and, as usual, you are wrong. The Zero wasn’t secret, but “everybody” knew the Japanese only flew cheap copies of obsolete western aircraft and their pilots had buck teeth and needed coke bottle bottom eyeglasses.

The Japanese had not been using "cheap copies of obsolete Western aircraft" for years. Once again, you seem to be projecting your own prejudices and not the reality.

The A5M, the A6M, the D3A, the G3m and G4M (in fact all of the G series of land based bombers), the J3m (an d all J series land based fighters), the list just goes on and on and on. By 1935 Japan had started a major modernization program of all of their aircraft, and only used Japanese designers. You are talking the ignorant opinion of many people, but those who had seen what the Japanese were doing and using in Japan (especially the US military advisors working with the Chinese) knew otherwise.

In fact, as much as you are trying to over and over dismiss the intelligence gathered and claiming "nobody knew", which contradicts reality. One in particular was Marine Major William Worton. Sent to China as an intelligence officer for the ONI, he was undercover as a "Disgruntled Marine setting up an export company in China", and traveled extensively through Japanese held territory after the Marco Polo Bridge incident. Much as Major Earl Ellis a decade before, he was aware and alarmed of the rapid growth and capabilities of the Japanese military, and the Navy agreed.

You seem to forget, we still had Sailors and Marines in China during this time, and they were working closely with China. And forwarding all reports to Washington. What, you think nobody read them or cared because they were retired? I imagine you think they blew off General MacArthur for the same reason, because he was retired.

No, the problem here is that you seem to believe they built nothing but junk, but those in the military knew better. Hence the massive attempt at reorganizing US forces before the war started. They knew what was coming, but they started a bit to late.

And nobody in the military thought they used "foreign obsolete aircraft", because of the A5M. The very reason the AVG was created in the first place was that aircraft, completely designed and built in Japan. If your claim was true, there never would have been an AVG in the first place. Where 100 pilots were allowed to leave the military and take up service in China. Flying of all things the P-40 Warhawk, one of the newest fighters in service at the time.

If Japan was not known to be flying tope rate fighters, the US would never have authorized US personnel on the eve of war to resign, and sent them with a recently designed and built aircraft. And interestingly enough, many of those pilots after the war started resigned and resumed their military career as if nothing had happened. Most of which immediately went on to command Squadrons and larger units, because they knew the equipment and pilots they would be facing.

Including Major Greg "Pappy" Boyington, Major Robert Smith, Major "Tex" Hill, Major James Howard, the list just goes on and on. The US would not have gone to any of that effort and expense if they did not see Japan and their aircraft as a real threat, and were not aware of their capabilities.

 

[themirrorthief]

Could the Soviets had taken Europe after the unconditional surrender of Germany?

So at the end of WWII, the Soviets decide to take their massive war machine that they just defeated the Germans with and unleash it on American and British forces.

Could the Soviets have taken Europe?

Sans Britain, cause Britain is an island.

i doubt they wanted us to nuke their commie ass back to the stone age

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Japanese had not been using "cheap copies of obsolete Western aircraft" for years. Once again, you seem to be projecting your own prejudices and not the reality.

The A5M, the A6M, the D3A, the G3m and G4M (in fact all of the G series of land based bombers), the J3m (an d all J series land based fighters), the list just goes on and on and on. By 1935 Japan had started a major modernization program of all of their aircraft, and only used Japanese designers. You are talking the ignorant opinion of many people, but those who had seen what the Japanese were doing and using in Japan (especially the US military advisors working with the Chinese) knew otherwise.

In fact, as much as you are trying to over and over dismiss the intelligence gathered and claiming "nobody knew", which contradicts reality. One in particular was Marine Major William Worton. Sent to China as an intelligence officer for the ONI, he was undercover as a "Disgruntled Marine setting up an export company in China", and traveled extensively through Japanese held territory after the Marco Polo Bridge incident. Much as Major Earl Ellis a decade before, he was aware and alarmed of the rapid growth and capabilities of the Japanese military, and the Navy agreed.

You seem to forget, we still had Sailors and Marines in China during this time, and they were working closely with China. And forwarding all reports to Washington. What, you think nobody read them or cared because they were retired? I imagine you think they blew off General MacArthur for the same reason, because he was retired.

No, the problem here is that you seem to believe they built nothing but junk, but those in the military knew better. Hence the massive attempt at reorganizing US forces before the war started. They knew what was coming, but they started a bit to late.

And nobody in the military thought they used "foreign obsolete aircraft", because of the A5M. The very reason the AVG was created in the first place was that aircraft, completely designed and built in Japan. If your claim was true, there never would have been an AVG in the first place. Where 100 pilots were allowed to leave the military and take up service in China. Flying of all things the P-40 Warhawk, one of the newest fighters in service at the time.

If Japan was not known to be flying tope rate fighters, the US would never have authorized US personnel on the eve of war to resign, and sent them with a recently designed and built aircraft. And interestingly enough, many of those pilots after the war started resigned and resumed their military career as if nothing had happened. Most of which immediately went on to command Squadrons and larger units, because they knew the equipment and pilots they would be facing.

Including Major Greg "Pappy" Boyington, Major Robert Smith, Major "Tex" Hill, Major James Howard, the list just goes on and on. The US would not have gone to any of that effort and expense if they did not see Japan and their aircraft as a real threat, and were not aware of their capabilities.

I never said the Japanese used copies or that they built junk. I said that was what everybody believed. You need to really read posts instead of replying to what you think they say. You constantly make mistakes, and I'm being generous when I say that. The US didn't send the AVG "recently designed and built Aircraft" The AVG P-40s came from British stocks because the British thought them inferior to the Brewster Buffalo that the RAF supplied to its far eastern units, the US replaced the P-40Bs given to the AVG with P-40Es. The pilots were allowed to resign their commissions with the guarantee that they would be reinstated in their previous service at their previous ranks. The US Army violated that promise, that's why Greg Boyington basically deserted and payed his own way back to the US to rein list in the Marines rather than take a commission in the USAAF. It was a clandestine operation done under a secret executive order by FDR. Plus the AVG pilots weren't released "on the eve of war" war with Japan wasn't being contemplated when the AVG was formed in early April 1941. None of the reports ever reached anyone operational, so no one fighting the Zero had any idea of its existence. Oh and by the way Greg Boyington wasn't a major, when he resigned his commission to join the AVG he was a First Lieutenent in the Marine Corps. The Marines promoted him to major when he reinlisted since he was a combat veteran.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Japanese had not been using "cheap copies of obsolete Western aircraft" for years. Once again, you seem to be projecting your own prejudices and not the reality.

The A5M, the A6M, the D3A, the G3m and G4M (in fact all of the G series of land based bombers), the J3m (an d all J series land based fighters), the list just goes on and on and on. By 1935 Japan had started a major modernization program of all of their aircraft, and only used Japanese designers. You are talking the ignorant opinion of many people, but those who had seen what the Japanese were doing and using in Japan (especially the US military advisors working with the Chinese) knew otherwise.

In fact, as much as you are trying to over and over dismiss the intelligence gathered and claiming "nobody knew", which contradicts reality. One in particular was Marine Major William Worton. Sent to China as an intelligence officer for the ONI, he was undercover as a "Disgruntled Marine setting up an export company in China", and traveled extensively through Japanese held territory after the Marco Polo Bridge incident. Much as Major Earl Ellis a decade before, he was aware and alarmed of the rapid growth and capabilities of the Japanese military, and the Navy agreed.

You seem to forget, we still had Sailors and Marines in China during this time, and they were working closely with China. And forwarding all reports to Washington. What, you think nobody read them or cared because they were retired? I imagine you think they blew off General MacArthur for the same reason, because he was retired.

No, the problem here is that you seem to believe they built nothing but junk, but those in the military knew better. Hence the massive attempt at reorganizing US forces before the war started. They knew what was coming, but they started a bit to late.

And nobody in the military thought they used "foreign obsolete aircraft", because of the A5M. The very reason the AVG was created in the first place was that aircraft, completely designed and built in Japan. If your claim was true, there never would have been an AVG in the first place. Where 100 pilots were allowed to leave the military and take up service in China. Flying of all things the P-40 Warhawk, one of the newest fighters in service at the time.

If Japan was not known to be flying tope rate fighters, the US would never have authorized US personnel on the eve of war to resign, and sent them with a recently designed and built aircraft. And interestingly enough, many of those pilots after the war started resigned and resumed their military career as if nothing had happened. Most of which immediately went on to command Squadrons and larger units, because they knew the equipment and pilots they would be facing.

Including Major Greg "Pappy" Boyington, Major Robert Smith, Major "Tex" Hill, Major James Howard, the list just goes on and on. The US would not have gone to any of that effort and expense if they did not see Japan and their aircraft as a real threat, and were not aware of their capabilities.

All the AVG pilots were drafted into 23rd Fighter Group, but most refused to serve and returned to the USA to rejoin their prewar services. As for expense, the US didn't spend a dime on the AVG, all costs were paid by the Chinese government.

 

[Mushroom]

The AVG P-40s came from British stocks because the British thought them inferior to the Brewster Buffalo that the RAF supplied to its far eastern units, the US replaced the P-40Bs given to the AVG with P-40Es.

The P-40 was only designed within 5 years of the US entering the war. And the first shipments sent to the UK were in early 1941.

Are you really trying to say that the aircraft sent to China in around 1 year were sent to the UK, found lacking, sent back to the US, then forwarded to China? Because once again, you are throwing out some amazing claims with no basis in fact.

And "inferior to the Buffalo"? You know, the UK only bought a few dozen of those, right? And started to issue them to Far East units in November 1941. So once again, how in the hell were they found "inferior to the Buffalo", when they were actually in service a year before the Buffalo ever entered UK service?

I would love to see some references for this, because your timeline to be honest is completely impossible. You are simply making things up entirely from your own strange opinions, with no basis in reality. Which you have been doing since this started.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Which is strategic, not tactical.

The US and UK could not have reached the USSR to have the same effect.

B-29s based in Germany could easily reach the Soviet factories behind the Urals. They could also reach the Soviet factories from bases around Kabul, Afghanistan. The combat radius of a fully loaded Superfortress (12,000 pounds of bombs) was over sixteen hundred miles. Empty one bomb bay and fit ferry tanks and the radius goes up to over two thousand miles and still carry 5,000 pounds of bombs. That’s the bomb load of a B-24 bombing Germany from the UK. Like the Japanese, the Soviets had no flak guns or fighters that could engage B-29s at their operational altitude of over 35,000 feet. Strategic bombing would be more effective against the USSR than Germany because the USSR lacked a comprehensive air defense net and all its experience was against German tactical bombers at low altitudes.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The P-40 was only designed within 5 years of the US entering the war. And the first shipments sent to the UK were in early 1941.

Are you really trying to say that the aircraft sent to China in around 1 year were sent to the UK, found lacking, sent back to the US, then forwarded to China? Because once again, you are throwing out some amazing claims with no basis in fact.

And "inferior to the Buffalo"? You know, the UK only bought a few dozen of those, right? And started to issue them to Far East units in November 1941. So once again, how in the hell were they found "inferior to the Buffalo", when they were actually in service a year before the Buffalo ever entered UK service?

I would love to see some references for this, because your timeline to be honest is completely impossible. You are simply making things up entirely from your own strange opinions, with no basis in reality. Which you have been doing since this started.

The British shipped the P-40s and Buffalos to the Far East because neither was good enough for Western Europe. The AVG P-40s came from RAF stocks In either India or Burma, I can’t remember which. And yes the RAF thought the Buffalo was superior to the Kittyhawk. The RAF Buffalos were very similar to the Finnish ones that scored so well against the Germans and Soviets, very unlike the overloaded USN models. They sucked against Zeros and Oscars, but weren’t as bad as their reputations make them seem. The RAF bought 170 Buffalos and absorbed the ones bought by Belgium as well. Your timeline is wrong, by November 1941 the Buffalo was the primary RAF fighter in Burma and Malaysia.

 

[Mushroom]

Empty one bomb bay and fit ferry tanks and the radius goes up to over two thousand miles and still carry 5,000 pounds of bombs.

Right.

You say that increases the range to 2,000 miles and they could reach the factories on the other side of the Urals. And in fact, I agree with you. They could very easily at that point reach there.

However, as that is over 1,800 miles away, said bombers could never return, and it would be a one-way trip with all of them then crashing deep in Soviet territory.

Not to mention they would be flying over a huge area of territory protected by Soviet fighters. At ranges no US fighters would be able to protect them.

So exactly how many B-29s would you be willing to send on one-way suicide missions?

Oh, and the Soviet air defense net was hardly lacking. The Germans lost over 1/3 of their air forces in Operation Barbarossa.

And remember, that was early in the war, when the Soviets were at their lowest point. But by the end of the war they had fielded some of the best fighters in the world. And they had a rather impressive number of bombers as well. That in fact could easily reach Germany, as they had already been doing it for years by that point.

 

[Mushroom]

The British shipped the P-40s and Buffalos to the Far East because neither was good enough for Western Europe. The AVG P-40s came from RAF stocks In either India or Burma, I can’t remember which.

Yes, they did. And it is true, the Brewster Buffalo was inadequate for fighting duty in Europe.

It was also inadequate for fighting duty in Burma also. They suffered horrible losses before they were withdrawn. And by March of 1942, only 6 of the 32 Buffalos were left when they were replaced with Hurricanes..

But no, the British did not "ship them P-40s". The P-40s in Burma were the 1st American Volunteer Group, which retreated into China, then Burma with the outbreak of war.

But where you get the idea that the P-40s of the AVG came from the British, I have absolutely no idea. They were built in New York, and shipped in crates to Burma for assembly by CAMCO, then delivered directly to the AVG. Those fighters were never "British". In fact, as far as I am aware almost all the British P-40s were involved in North Africa, and I have never heard of any being sent to Burma.

 

[westwall]

B-29s based in Germany could easily reach the Soviet factories behind the Urals. They could also reach the Soviet factories from bases around Kabul, Afghanistan. The combat radius of a fully loaded Superfortress (12,000 pounds of bombs) was over sixteen hundred miles. Empty one bomb bay and fit ferry tanks and the radius goes up to over two thousand miles and still carry 5,000 pounds of bombs. That’s the bomb load of a B-24 bombing Germany from the UK. Like the Japanese, the Soviets had no flak guns or fighters that could engage B-29s at their operational altitude of over 35,000 feet. Strategic bombing would be more effective against the USSR than Germany because the USSR lacked a comprehensive air defense net and all its experience was against German tactical bombers at low altitudes.

The Service ceiling of the B-29 is just shy of 32,000 feet. The Lavochkin LA5FN has a service ceiling 4,000 feet higher, so you are incorrect. What we had that would have crushed the Soviets was the bomb.

Strategic bombing with conventional munitions was not effective at all. Germany was producing more at the end of the war than at the beginning. What they couldn't do was move it.

P-51 Mustangs, after escorting the bomber stream to its destination descended like a school of pirhana's and shot to pieces anything that moved.

The railway rolling stock was decimated. The trucks were decimated, and the one strategic bombing campaign that WAS effective, that against the POL production, had strangled the German fuel supply.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Oh, and I am sure that you alto think they were all small, had buck teeth, and wore glasses.

"Cheap, flimsy, low powered".

Just give up, you just literally shot off your foot by even attempting to make that claim. Even the US Experts that finally got their hands on a disabled A6M in 1942 praised the design. The fighter dominated all battles it was in until the F6F Hellcat came out in 1942. I am finding it almost comical that you are actually trying to claim that the Japanese made "cheap, flimsy, low powered" aircraft.


After action report of the CO of the USS Yorktown after the Battle of Midway.

And many of the things the US experts praised when they finally got their hands on one were things Japan was doing years before the US did. Like flush rivets, gun nozzles being flush with the wing instead of protruding from it, and that it had not only an exceptionally low stall speed, the controls would stiffen up as speed increased to give the pilot even greater control.

And their smaller engines were used for two reasons. The plane even fully loaded weighed half of a comparable US fighter, and was much more maneuverable. And the light weight gave them exceptional performance. As in, up to eight hours flying time (over 50% more than comparable US fighters).

The Zero was cheap, flimsy and low powered. The Sakae engine in the A6M2 only produced 940 horsepower. Because of the power limitations and range requirements every part had to be as light as possible. The never exceed speed was only 370 mph, go faster than that and parts started falling off. At any speed above three hundred mph the controls got so heavy that a P40 or Wildcat could outturn a Zero. The lack of power didn’t allow pilot armor, self-sealing fuel tanks or bulletproof windshields. The cannon protruded from the leading edges of the wings, they weren’t flush, flush riveting was common on 1940 fighters. The low stall speed was a function of the large wing which was what caused the controls to become heavy at speed. Allied fighters used hydraulic boost to overcome that, but the Sakae’s low power didn’t allow for heavy hydraulics. The low powered engines weren’t a choice, they were a necessity, Japan wasn’t able to build a over thousand horsepower engine until they licensed the Db-601 used in the Tony. By late 1942 Japan was starting to build 1,100 to 1,500 horsepower engines in small numbers, but the Allies were producing 2,000 horsepower engines in large numbers by that time. The US P-40 had a 1,200 hp engine in 1937 when the Zero’s original engine was producing 700 horsepower.

 

[westwall]

The Zero was cheap, flimsy and low powered. The Sakae engine in the A6M2 only produced 940 horsepower. Because of the power limitations and range requirements every part had to be as light as possible. The never exceed speed was only 370 mph, go faster than that and parts started falling off. At any speed above three hundred mph the controls got so heavy that a P40 or Wildcat could outturn a Zero. The lack of power didn’t allow pilot armor, self-sealing fuel tanks or bulletproof windshields. The cannon protruded from the leading edges of the wings, they weren’t flush, flush riveting was common on 1940 fighters. The low stall speed was a function of the large wing which was what caused the controls to become heavy at speed. Allied fighters used hydraulic boost to overcome that, but the Sakae’s low power didn’t allow for heavy hydraulics. The low powered engines weren’t a choice, they were a necessity, Japan wasn’t able to build a over thousand horsepower engine until they licensed the Db-601 used in the Tony. By late 1942 Japan was starting to build 1,100 to 1,500 horsepower engines in small numbers, but the Allies were producing 2,000 horsepower engines in large numbers by that time. The US P-40 had a 1,200 hp engine in 1937 when the Zero’s original engine was producing 700 horsepower.

You are not correct. The Zero out turned the P-40 by a large margin. It also outclimbed it.

The P-40 pilots were trained to make diving hit and run attacks because they could out dive ANY Japanese plane. And, for the record, the majority of airplanes the AVG faced were Nates, and Claudes. There were TWO Zero's in China for evaluation purposes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Could the Soviets had taken Europe after the unconditional surrender of Germany?

So at the end of WWII, the Soviets decide to take their massive war machine that they just defeated the Germans with and unleash it on American and British forces.

Could the Soviets have taken Europe?

Sans Britain, cause Britain is an island.

Yes, probably. However the US had just dropped a couple of atomic bombs on Japan. Probably not the best time to figure out how much the US would need to have been pushed to use them again.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Right.

You say that increases the range to 2,000 miles and they could reach the factories on the other side of the Urals. And in fact, I agree with you. They could very easily at that point reach there.

However, as that is over 1,800 miles away, said bombers could never return, and it would be a one-way trip with all of them then crashing deep in Soviet territory.

Not to mention they would be flying over a huge area of territory protected by Soviet fighters. At ranges no US fighters would be able to protect them.

So exactly how many B-29s would you be willing to send on one-way suicide missions?

Oh, and the Soviet air defense net was hardly lacking. The Germans lost over 1/3 of their air forces in Operation Barbarossa.

And remember, that was early in the war, when the Soviets were at their lowest point. But by the end of the war they had fielded some of the best fighters in the world. And they had a rather impressive number of bombers as well. That in fact could easily reach Germany, as they had already been doing it for years by that point.

I’m talking COMBAT RADIUS, not range. Combat radius is fuel to get to the target, attack it and return. The actual range of a B-29 carrying 12,000 pounds of bombs was 3,250 miles. By comparison the combat radius of the B-17 was under 800 miles.