corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines

[RoccoR]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ Humanity, et al,

Yes, I understand that Israel is not exempt from Customary and International Humanitarian Law.

Customary and International Humanitarian Law

You are aware that Israel is not except from that law?

(COMMENT)

But by the same token, I also understand that Israel is often falsely accused of defending itself against a state that has sponsored terrotism (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters) on a continuous basis since a time before the Munich Massacre.

Now I know that there are factions, rather large Arab Palestinian factions, that believe that openly supporting avowed jihadist like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), and that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" is completely justified and legal. I understand that the Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolt for the liberation of the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine; and that their "March of Return" (although you would be hard-pressed to find anyone that was actually a bonafide returnee) and attempt to swarm the border is their right (although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

 

[Hollie]

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

Except the border that Israel defends. Have you read the news of islamic terrorists massing near that border?

There are videos on YouTube.

 

[P F Tinmore]

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

Except the border that Israel defends. Have you read the news of islamic terrorists massing near that border?

There are videos on YouTube.

They are just repeating Israeli say so like they usually do.

There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I understand. But you are mistaken.

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

(COMMENT)

From the ICRC (Red Cross) International Humanitarian Law Database:

Rule 5. Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.

Israeli Settlers in Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control) is an administrative division of the West Bank, set out in the Oslo II Accord.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I understand. But you are mistaken.

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

(COMMENT)

From the ICRC (Red Cross) International Humanitarian Law Database:

Rule 5. Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.

Israeli Settlers in Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control) is an administrative division of the West Bank, set out in the Oslo II Accord.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, what does that have to do with my post?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, for heaven's sake. Exactly how irrational can you be?

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

(COMMENT)

You can pull your --- Where is the Map trick --- all you want. But the border is established, it is very tangible and evidence to its own existence. On one side it is under Israeli sovereignty; and on the other side it is a state sponsor of terrorism.

​

Reality is the something beyond Arab Palestinian fantasy.

Having considered the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States,

1.

Solemnly proclaims the following principles:

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement (AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA May 4, 1994) to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

Except the border that Israel defends. Have you read the news of islamic terrorists massing near that border?

There are videos on YouTube.

They are just repeating Israeli say so like they usually do.

There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.

Such nonsense.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I have to laugh, I mean really laugh.

CAPTION WITHIN A CAPTION

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

So, what does that have to do with my post?

(COMMENT)

If you look at your post → (copied supra) → you will see that it "EXACTLY" answers your question "Are they civilians or not?" --- AND --- refutes your claim that "the Geneva Accord they are not."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, for heaven's sake. Exactly how irrational can you be?

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

(COMMENT)

You can pull your --- Where is the Map trick --- all you want. But the border is established, it is very tangible and evidence to its own existence. On one side it is under Israeli sovereignty; and on the other side it is a state sponsor of terrorism.

View attachment 198719
​

Reality is the something beyond Arab Palestinian fantasy.

Having considered the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States,

1.

Solemnly proclaims the following principles:

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement (AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA May 4, 1994) to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.​

Most Respectfully,
R

The armistice line was to keep Israeli and Egyptian forces separate. The line ran through Palestine and was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary.

So, when a line runs through your country, what side are you not allowed to be on?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I have to laugh, I mean really laugh.

CAPTION WITHIN A CAPTION

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

So, what does that have to do with my post?

(COMMENT)

If you look at your post → (copied supra) → you will see that it "EXACTLY" answers your question "Are they civilians or not?" --- AND --- refutes your claim that "the Geneva Accord they are not."

Most Respectfully,
R

The Geneva Accord uses the term "protected persons" because some militants are protected persons and some civilians are not.

 

[Hollie]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I have to laugh, I mean really laugh.

CAPTION WITHIN A CAPTION

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

So, what does that have to do with my post?

(COMMENT)

If you look at your post → (copied supra) → you will see that it "EXACTLY" answers your question "Are they civilians or not?" --- AND --- refutes your claim that "the Geneva Accord they are not."

Most Respectfully,
R

The Geneva Accord uses the term "protected persons" because some militants are protected persons and some civilians are not.

Link?

 

[Hollie]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, for heaven's sake. Exactly how irrational can you be?

(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation).

Uhh, there is no border there.

(COMMENT)

You can pull your --- Where is the Map trick --- all you want. But the border is established, it is very tangible and evidence to its own existence. On one side it is under Israeli sovereignty; and on the other side it is a state sponsor of terrorism.

View attachment 198719
​

Reality is the something beyond Arab Palestinian fantasy.

Having considered the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States,

1.

Solemnly proclaims the following principles:

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement (AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA May 4, 1994) to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.​

Most Respectfully,
R

The armistice line was to keep Israeli and Egyptian forces separate. The line ran through Palestine and was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary.

So, when a line runs through your country, what side are you not allowed to be on?

Is Gaza'istan a country?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You have a couple of thingmixed up here. First off, we were talking about Gaza. And so let's do one at a time; Gaza!

The armistice line was to keep Israeli and Egyptian forces separate. The line ran through Palestine and was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary.

(COMMENT)

First, you will notice that I made a specific reference to The Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip; which replaced the Gaza–Jericho Agreement. The boundary that constituted the Gaza Strip inherited from the Gaza–Jericho Agreement --- and again inherited from the Peace Treaty with the Egyptians. None of which has the restrictive clause its use as a boundary or border [that is an issue under the Permanent Status of Negotiations (PSN)]. The boundary was clarified as:

​

The boundary was agree to by both parties, and remains so until it is changed under the PSN. And while it is in place, the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States still applies as stated in Posting #427 supra.

So, when a line runs through your country, what side are you not allowed to be on?
.

(COMMENT)

This is an invalid question because it rest on the premise that the territorial outline in Oslo II "runs through your country." This premise is not true. The agreed upon perimeter of the Gaza Strip is what it is. And it will not change just because the Arab Palestinians do not want to honor the agreement after the fact.

You can insist that the Gaza Strip has no boundary. But I suggest that it has been there since the time of the Egyptian Military Governorship in 1949; and has evolved into what we have today.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You have a couple of thingmixed up here. First off, we were talking about Gaza. And so let's do one at a time; Gaza!

The armistice line was to keep Israeli and Egyptian forces separate. The line ran through Palestine and was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary.

(COMMENT)

First, you will notice that I made a specific reference to The Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip; which replaced the Gaza–Jericho Agreement. The boundary that constituted the Gaza Strip inherited from the Gaza–Jericho Agreement --- and again inherited from the Peace Treaty with the Egyptians. None of which has the restrictive clause its use as a boundary or border [that is an issue under the Permanent Status of Negotiations (PSN)]. The boundary was clarified as:

View attachment 198753
​

The boundary was agree to by both parties, and remains so until it is changed under the PSN. And while it is in place, the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States still applies as stated in Posting #427 supra.

So, when a line runs through your country, what side are you not allowed to be on?
.

(COMMENT)

This is an invalid question because it rest on the premise that the territorial outline in Oslo II "runs through your country." This premise is not true. The agreed upon perimeter of the Gaza Strip is what it is. And it will not change just because the Arab Palestinians do not want to honor the agreement after the fact.

You can insist that the Gaza Strip has no boundary. But I suggest that it has been there since the time of the Egyptian Military Governorship in 1949; and has evolved into what we have today.

Most Respectfully,
R

There has never been a treaty defining the armistice line to be a border. It remains an armistice line through Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false

How many more links would like me to post that proves you a liar?

Palestinian journalist killed in Israel-Gaza protests

You blind defense of Israel is that of a sick mind!

You rely too much on pointless melodrama as a way to sidestep your failed argument. Explain how your “murdering innocent civilians” nonsense applies in the context of a war zone created by Islamic terrorists.

Exactly...

That is the kind of fucked up zionut thinking that induces a disliking of Israel.

Because your glorious Israel is beyond international and customary law because you morons think that Israel has some kind of 'special' status and beyond reproach.

When you retards start thinking about Israel as an 'ordinary' country then there might be some progress.

You made an effort to sidestep my comments but left yourself stuttrring and mumbling. So, the question remains; how does "murdering innocent civilians" apply in the context of a war zone created by Islamic terrorists?

You might also want to consider your claim about Israel having some special status. Islamic terrorists are the aggressors in the on-going border war. What international laws apply to the islamic terrorists and their acts of war?

Occupation and colonization are inherently aggressive. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.

 

[Hollie]

Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false

How many more links would like me to post that proves you a liar?

Palestinian journalist killed in Israel-Gaza protests

You blind defense of Israel is that of a sick mind!

You rely too much on pointless melodrama as a way to sidestep your failed argument. Explain how your “murdering innocent civilians” nonsense applies in the context of a war zone created by Islamic terrorists.

Exactly...

That is the kind of fucked up zionut thinking that induces a disliking of Israel.

Because your glorious Israel is beyond international and customary law because you morons think that Israel has some kind of 'special' status and beyond reproach.

When you retards start thinking about Israel as an 'ordinary' country then there might be some progress.

You made an effort to sidestep my comments but left yourself stuttrring and mumbling. So, the question remains; how does "murdering innocent civilians" apply in the context of a war zone created by Islamic terrorists?

You might also want to consider your claim about Israel having some special status. Islamic terrorists are the aggressors in the on-going border war. What international laws apply to the islamic terrorists and their acts of war?

Occupation and colonization are inherently aggressive. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.

That's a tired, used-up slogan you cut and paste constantly.

The islamic terrorist border riots are not defensive. Those riots and armed islamic terrorist attacks are calls to gee-had by Islamist clerics.

Islamist ideology is inherently retrograde and brutish. The israelis have every right to defend themselves from the Islamist gee-had.

 

[Shusha]

Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false

How many more links would like me to post that proves you a liar?

Palestinian journalist killed in Israel-Gaza protests

You blind defense of Israel is that of a sick mind!

Again with the logical fallacies and the personal attacks. Clearly you are demonstrating an inability to address the actual content of my posts, so you resort to inaccurate language, appealing to emotion and false accusations of both my claims and my person.

The argument that "Israel is murdering innocent civilians" remains false, regardless of how many logical fallacies you use. My defense of Israel is not the least bit blind, but a reasoned, well-researched response to international law and facts on the ground. So let's go over what I actually have said:

1. Israel is defending a belligerent attack on her border. (Completely legal).
2. Israel has used a combination of non-lethal riot control methods and lethal force to do so. (Completely legal).
3. Israel has killed combatants. This accounts for ~85% of those killed. (Absolutely, without doubt legal).
4. Israel has killed a small number of non-combatant civilians who have failed to comply with instruction and thus fall under suspicion of activities harmful to the security of Israel. (Legal.)
5. Israel has killed non-combatant civilians due to misfire, ricochet, error, or similar circumstances due to their proximity to combatants and those posing a threat to Israel's security. (Legal for Israel -- illegal for Gaza).
6. Israel's actions are proportionate to the security threat posed. (Legal).

Yesterday, you attempted to claim that Israel is in breach of the Geneva Conventions. Rocco and I demonstrated, using documentary evidence from the actual Conventions, that your claim has no basis and that indeed, as outlined above, Israel's actions are well within the parameters of the Conventions and international law governing conflict.

Today, you have no response to our discussion of objective law as it pertains to Israel or as it pertains to the government of Gaza -- which is demonstrably in breach of said law -- and resort to your typical arguments based on emotive language, false accusations of murder and personal attacks. Thus, it is patently clear that you are the one arguing from a position of "blindess". A blind demonization of Israel.

 

[Shusha]

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not?

There is no such thing as "settlers". They are Israeli citizens living on land under Israeli sovereignty or under Israeli control according to treaties and agreements. There is NO DISTINCTION to be made between some false notion of various types of Israeli citizens.

And, as Rocco has already pointed out, persons who do not participate in the hostilities are non-combatants and are protected under international law. To attempt to classify Jewish Israeli citizens as not protected is not only glaringly incorrect in law -- it is a vile and abhorrent way of dehumanizing Israeli Jewish people with express intent to make it morally and legally permissible to kill them.

I can not possibly overstate this. You are trying to create a legal construct to permit the murder of Jews. That is the Arab Palestinian mentality. It is a call to genocide.

 

[Shusha]

And THAT ^^^, right there, Humanity is what we are dealing with at the Gaza/Israel border. THAT is what the Jewish people are forced to address.