Constitution Done In Iraq?

[Annie]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/27/MTFH33056_2005-08-27_00-34-09_SCH643974.html

Iraq speaker: "deal in principle" on constitution
Aug 26 8:26 PM US/Eastern


By Mariam Karouny and Alastair Macdonald

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi leaders have reached a deal in principle on a draft constitution, parliament's speaker said on Saturday, but no accord was clinched yet and a final decision would be clear only on Sunday.

One Shi'ite faction in the government called it a historic day, but delegates from Iraq's Sunni minority could not be reached for comment and had been making deeply pessimistic statements hours before on the chances of an accord.

Speaker Hajim al-Hassani said negotiators from the Shi'ite majority had proposed amendments to an existing draft to meet the demands of Sunni Arabs, who dominated under Saddam Hussein.

Sunni leaders had yet to give a definite response, said Hassani, himself a Sunni, but the amendments did deal with those issues troubling the minority.

"There is a deal in principle," Hassani said. "Today we had a response from the Shi'ites. Tomorrow the Sunnis are going to meet and we expect a response on Sunday."

Even without Sunni agreement, the draft as it stood would be the one to be put to Iraqis in an October referendum, he said, after talks stretched late into the night.

BUSH STEPS IN

The developments occurred a day after President Bush had stepped in to try and promote a consensus Washington says will help ease a Sunni Arab insurgency and let it bring troops home.

Bush telephoned a key Shi'ite Islamist leader in the ruling coalition to ask him to reach out to Sunnis in the interests of shaping a constitution that could muster broad national support, said a source close to the Shi'ite alliance in the government.

U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad has been working intensely through a series of deadlines this month to try to keep the constitution to a U.S.-sponsored timetable.

Now the U.S. effort seems aimed at preventing a bitter and divisive campaign for the referendum after Sunnis rejected a draft that was presented at the eleventh hour to beat last Monday's parliamentary deadline.

Bush's call to cleric Abdul Aziz al-Hakim betrayed concern in Washington that the referendum could turn into a dangerous sectarian showdown rather than the unifying celebration it had hoped would bury the authoritarian past of Saddam.

Thousands of Sunni admirers of Saddam and followers of maverick young Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr took to the streets on Friday in separate demonstrations to protest against provisions in the draft constitution aimed at creating a federal Iraq -- a step many fear could lead to permanent division.

POSITIVE NEWS PUSH

Seemingly anxious to force the pace of positive news, a spokesman for Deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Chalabi, a secular Shi'ite once close to but now estranged from Washington, called reporters after midnight to say a deal had been reached.

Entifadh Qanbar later said Khalilzad told him Sunnis would accept proposals passing to parliament the setting of mechanisms for autonomy of federal regions and putting a time limit on excludîng members of Saddam's Baath party from public life.

"Federalism will be mentioned in the constitution but it will be organised in a law to be drafted by the parliament," he told Reuters. "As for de-Baathification, it will be up to the parliament to put an end to it by majority vote."

Sunnis had been pressing on these points among others. They believe the new, fully empowered parliament, to be elected in December if the referendum approves the constitution, will have a much greater Sunni presence, and are mobilising voters after a boycott in January's election left them under-represented.

The Shi'ite and Kurdish -led government is also keen to defuse Sunni threats to campaign against the constitution. If two thirds of voters in just three of Iraq's 18 provinces vote "No" it will fail and the parliament elected in December will have only interim powers and draft a new constitution.

SUNNI RESERVATIONS

Before Hassani's comments, Sunni negotiator Saleh al-Mutlak reeled off reservations about the process on Al Jazeera television and complained the Shi'ite-Kurdish coalition "sends its proposals through the American ambassador."

"With wisdom, it is possible for us to agree," he said. "But when it comes to essential matters like the unity of Iraq, then the future looks bleak."

After Hassani spoke, Al Jazeera quoted Sunni delegate Tareq al-Hashemi as saying Sunnis asked for 24 hours to respond but that the proposals did not meet "minimum aspirations."

Whatever the outcome of negotiations to tweak the draft presented to parliament last Monday, officials say it is likely the National Assembly will hold a vote, possibly on Sunday, to adopt the text to go to the referendum. No vote is necessary, but the government commands an overwhelming majority.

 

[Mally]

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/article_full_story.asp?service_id=9515

I think they have a better idea of whats going on than we do.


Dear Dr. Kareem…

Iraq’s constitution is not worth the paper it is written on. How can you draft a constitution with over two hundred thousands invading foreign troops occupying the country?!

The United States has pressured the parties involved in the drafting of this worthless piece of paper until it meets there satisfaction.

The U.S. government wants an American style federal system in Iraq and will not let the indigenous Iraqis decide their own future.

Where is the freedom the Iraqis have been promised in this unjust invasion for a so called "democracy"?!

NEOLIBERAL from UK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Neoliberal,

The current ethnic division in Iraq is deepening, and the battle between Iraq’s ethnic groups over power is as bold as the fighting between Iraq’s resistance fighters and the country’s army, led by the United States.

As the illegal occupation of Iraq lingers on, the antipathy between Iraq’s ethnic groups, which was once tightly controlled by Saddam’s government, grows bolder, with each group struggling to take more powers.

Let’s have a look at Iraq’s ethnic make-up. Iraq is not purely Arab; the northern part of the country is a Kurdish stronghold. The Kurds are an ethnic group that has its own language. The rest of Iraq is divided between Sunnis in the northern and central portions of the country and the Shiites in the southern portion.

But this division became less worrying in the 1980s under the Baath party rule, led by the former Iraqi leader.

Was it better when Saddam controlled everything in the country?

It goes without saying that the current chaos and disorder in Iraq’s political atmosphere was sparked by the U.S. invasion, and still the U.S. rejects continuous calls, domestically and worldwide, to start reducing its forces in Iraq.

Now Iraq is struggling to forge a new constitution. This situation reminds me so much of January elections; “Elections under Occupation”.

A country under occupation is a state with very limited sovereignty, so how can we trust or believe in a constitution that’s presented under the force of occupation and under pressure from the U.S. government, that’s trying to persuade Iraq’s Sunnis to approve terms that will definitely lead to further division of the country?!

Even if the constitution was approved, this is not evidence of a turn toward stable dominance by a credible Iraqi government.

 

[GotZoom]

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/article_full_story.asp?service_id=9515

I think they have a better idea of whats going on than we do.


Dear Dr. Kareem…

Iraq’s constitution is not worth the paper it is written on. How can you draft a constitution with over two hundred thousands invading foreign troops occupying the country?!

The United States has pressured the parties involved in the drafting of this worthless piece of paper until it meets there satisfaction.

The U.S. government wants an American style federal system in Iraq and will not let the indigenous Iraqis decide their own future.

Where is the freedom the Iraqis have been promised in this unjust invasion for a so called "democracy"?!

NEOLIBERAL from UK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Neoliberal,

The current ethnic division in Iraq is deepening, and the battle between Iraq’s ethnic groups over power is as bold as the fighting between Iraq’s resistance fighters and the country’s army, led by the United States.

As the illegal occupation of Iraq lingers on, the antipathy between Iraq’s ethnic groups, which was once tightly controlled by Saddam’s government, grows bolder, with each group struggling to take more powers.

Let’s have a look at Iraq’s ethnic make-up. Iraq is not purely Arab; the northern part of the country is a Kurdish stronghold. The Kurds are an ethnic group that has its own language. The rest of Iraq is divided between Sunnis in the northern and central portions of the country and the Shiites in the southern portion.

But this division became less worrying in the 1980s under the Baath party rule, led by the former Iraqi leader.

Was it better when Saddam controlled everything in the country?

It goes without saying that the current chaos and disorder in Iraq’s political atmosphere was sparked by the U.S. invasion, and still the U.S. rejects continuous calls, domestically and worldwide, to start reducing its forces in Iraq.

Now Iraq is struggling to forge a new constitution. This situation reminds me so much of January elections; “Elections under Occupation”.

A country under occupation is a state with very limited sovereignty, so how can we trust or believe in a constitution that’s presented under the force of occupation and under pressure from the U.S. government, that’s trying to persuade Iraq’s Sunnis to approve terms that will definitely lead to further division of the country?!

Even if the constitution was approved, this is not evidence of a turn toward stable dominance by a credible Iraqi government.

Aljazeera? It must be true then.

By the way, your "Dr. Kareem" didn't even write the reply.

 

[Said1]

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/article_full_story.asp?service_id=9515

I think they have a better idea of whats going on than we do.


Dear Dr. Kareem…

Iraq’s constitution is not worth the paper it is written on. How can you draft a constitution with over two hundred thousands invading foreign troops occupying the country?!

The United States has pressured the parties involved in the drafting of this worthless piece of paper until it meets there satisfaction.

The U.S. government wants an American style federal system in Iraq and will not let the indigenous Iraqis decide their own future.

Where is the freedom the Iraqis have been promised in this unjust invasion for a so called "democracy"?!

NEOLIBERAL from UK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Neoliberal,

The current ethnic division in Iraq is deepening, and the battle between Iraq’s ethnic groups over power is as bold as the fighting between Iraq’s resistance fighters and the country’s army, led by the United States.

As the illegal occupation of Iraq lingers on, the antipathy between Iraq’s ethnic groups, which was once tightly controlled by Saddam’s government, grows bolder, with each group struggling to take more powers.

Let’s have a look at Iraq’s ethnic make-up. Iraq is not purely Arab; the northern part of the country is a Kurdish stronghold. The Kurds are an ethnic group that has its own language. The rest of Iraq is divided between Sunnis in the northern and central portions of the country and the Shiites in the southern portion.

But this division became less worrying in the 1980s under the Baath party rule, led by the former Iraqi leader.

Was it better when Saddam controlled everything in the country?

It goes without saying that the current chaos and disorder in Iraq’s political atmosphere was sparked by the U.S. invasion, and still the U.S. rejects continuous calls, domestically and worldwide, to start reducing its forces in Iraq.

Now Iraq is struggling to forge a new constitution. This situation reminds me so much of January elections; “Elections under Occupation”.

A country under occupation is a state with very limited sovereignty, so how can we trust or believe in a constitution that’s presented under the force of occupation and under pressure from the U.S. government, that’s trying to persuade Iraq’s Sunnis to approve terms that will definitely lead to further division of the country?!

Even if the constitution was approved, this is not evidence of a turn toward stable dominance by a credible Iraqi government.

B-b-but the ethnic and religious tensions already existed previous to the war in Iraq. Disidents do not become insurgents over night, these things take planning, time and of course cash. In other words, civil war was more than likely inevitable.

 

[Mally]

hey Im fully in support of spending billions and billions of our tax dollars to better IRAQ than our Country. I mean its not like that money could be better spent cleaning things up in our own country right ?

:bangheads

 

[Said1]

hey Im fully in support of spending billions and billions of our tax dollars to better IRAQ than our Country. I mean its not like that money could be better spent cleaning things up in our own country right ?

:bangheads

B-b-but you could pick up trash instead of doing time the next time the choice arises for you!

 

[Mally]

???

 

[Annie]

???

Reading problem. Here ya go, real slow:

...cleaning things up in our own country right ?

 

[Mally]

Testing...just checking out my new sig.

 

[Mally]

cool , it worked...

 

[Mally]

Yes everyone your fearless leader did actually say that..its all on tape.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes everyone your fearless leader did actually say that..its all on tape.

You keep promising to leave-----keep it

 

[no1tovote4]

Yes everyone your fearless leader did actually say that..its all on tape.

And it was funny when he did. Now, have you any other things to say or are you a one-hit wonder? What a silly self-defeating argument.

"Our president has Malaprops!"

And?

 

[ekrem]

Arab league General Secretary Moussa said, that this constitution would lead into chaos.

Arabs across Iraq want in constitution saying: that IRAQ is arab country.


With support of Arab League Sunnites in Iraq have now a powerfull supporter behind them...
And they will pressure US and others that sunnites will not be sacrificed for fast progress in Iraq.

 

[archangel]

Arab league General Secretary Moussa said, that this constitution would lead into chaos.

Arabs across Iraq want in constitution saying: that IRAQ is arab country.


With support of Arab League Sunnites in Iraq have now a powerfull supporter behind them...
And they will pressure US and others that sunnites will not be sacrificed for fast progress in Iraq.

If Iraq turns out to be another Islam/Iran type of "Mullah" controlled and repressive type of government...well all our efforts and lives lost and money spent was just another "Carter" type of fiasco..enough said and it is time we... the real Americans... got on board and said enough is enough... adios amigos or lack of!

 

[ekrem]

hello archangel.

i really understand you concerns, as it is turkish concern, too...


i think iraq has to get a centralize government. with 1 bagdad.

otherwise there will be 3 blocks and 3 bagdads in Iraq.
this means for sure, the shiite south will get to a mullah-state.

but when Iraq is centralize government, there will always be variety in centralized government, reprsanting all thoufgts. so in one centralized government, other groups will always question what other ethnicities do.

i think this would guarantee IRAQ makeing progress in the long-term.

Otherwise with 3 blocks, everyone does his own thing.

 

[dilloduck]

hello archangel.

i really understand you concerns, as it is turkish concern, too...


i think iraq has to get a centralize government. with 1 bagdad.

otherwise there will be 3 blocks and 3 bagdads in Iraq.
this means for sure, the shiite south will get to a mullah-state.

but when Iraq is centralize government, there will always be variety in centralized government, reprsanting all thoufgts. so in one centralized government, other groups will always question what other ethnicities do.

i think this would guarantee IRAQ makeing progress in the long-term.

Otherwise with 3 blocks, everyone does his own thing.

It would probably be best for everyone but if they don't want federalism or can't come to any agreement on the constitution what can be done? We have made it very clear to the worl that it's up to them to choose thier own destiny.