Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[kaz]

That's bull shit. We have an illegal immigration problem because we don't have a southern border, we have better jobs than in Mexico and we pay tons of welfare to illegal criminals who ignore our laws.

That has the impact that we can't bring in more legals.

No, it really doesn't. We can widen the pipeline for legal immigrants regardless.

I don't understand how someone who keeps claiming to be a libertarian constantly vomits authoritarian leftist talking points

That's because you don't understand liberty. Most libertarians think your wall is asinine.

You're full of shit. Libertarians are split on the wall and both sides feel strongly about it

Heh.. sure. Tell yourself that, while you lace up your jackboots.

BTW, you're not very observant, but most of the libertarians on this board support the wall and having a southern ...

Proving that anyone can call themselves a libertarian - even Trump supporters. They can also call themselves unicorns.

Sure. Whatever.

You have some libertarian ideas in your head. You just can't let go of the security you perceive government provides you, so you talk libertarian a bit, but then chicken out and say let government do it. You should believe some of the things you say. Government is actually a bad solution. Let go of the crutch of just talking libertarian and not actually doing it

 

[dblack]

You have some libertarian ideas in your head. You just can't let go of the security you perceive government provides you ...

LOL.. riiiiighht.

I'm not the one asking government to build a wall for me to hide behind.

 

[kaz]

You have some libertarian ideas in your head. You just can't let go of the security you perceive government provides you ...

LOL.. riiiiighht.

I'm not the one asking government to build a wall for me to hide behind.

What? You think a wall to provide immigration control for criminals, drug dealers and welfare whores is a government spending program? Yes, I want the military, police, those are just government programs! Idiot.

You're a bizarre little man who knows nothing about what libertarian is actually about. You think libertarian is about questioning if government should do something before you decide it should

 

[Mac1958]

This is a huge reason we need a border wall. It's so unfair for people to go through that and then we have option B of walk across our southern border and cut in line. We could accept so many more legal immigrants who follow the law if we didn't do that and accept the criminals who walk across our southern border now

You don't see the chicken-and-egg in that? The reason we have a problem with illegal immigration is because we aren't accepting enough legal immigrants. If we opened that up, most people would use the legal channels, and we could be pretty certain that those who weren't were 'bad guys'. As it is, most Americans recognize that most 'illegal' immigrants are just poor people trying to feed their families. That's why we can't get behind putting them all in jail, or building a wall, or whatever authoritarian horseshit Trumpsters are cheering for.

And that is why we need bi-partisan comprehensive immigration reform, not bandaid approaches. It seems to me that if the parties could apply the same energy, determination, and give and take that they did to the budget bill - they could accomplish this instead of kicking it down the road again and again.

Democrats, moderates, centrists, independents and normal Republicans could pretty easily come up with a solution. These people know that a 1,900 mile (or whatever it is) band-aid is not a smart idea. But Trump knows he has to keep pushing this, or bye-bye goes the base. Bad enough he caved on the ACA and the budget.

He made his bed, he can sleep in it.
.

 

[rightwinger]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

I'm sure they have noticed. They have noticed the lowest black unemployment rate in years, the lowest number of welfare recipients in years, the reduction of regulations that allows minority businesses to flourish.

Yes, they have noticed, and they thank President Trump.

Unemployment among blacks has been dropping since the Great Obama

 

[Wry Catcher]

Gee.....I wonder why?


Libs are successful because they offer inclusion.
Cons offer exclusion at ever opportunity.

Would you care to give your best example of the GOP offering "exclusion"?

Really?
If you have to ask that question then you'll never get it.

The GOP would LOVE to get some support from minority voters that agree with us on the issues.


We've tried.


That's an attempt at INCLUSION.


Do you want me to back that up? I'll be happy to.


I challenge you to give me your best example of the GOP being "exclusion".

Republicans found it more profitable to use minorities as scapegoats for all that is wrong with society

That is true....but the Democrats have also started taking them for granted.

How so (have Democrats started taking minorities for granted)?

 

[LuckyDuck]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Nobody on the right or left is or has been under any delusion that all will fall in line with their particular line of thinking. Those on the right know that the progressive republicans are far apart from the Freedom Caucus conservatives and getting to get in line together would be difficult, if not impossible.
So too are the liberals far apart from the far-left neo-Marxist body.
The current hostility we are facing stems from the fact that the right has swayed too far right and the left has swayed too far left; both are in the extremes.
The left will never garner the middle-America vote because it is abandoning our Constitutional Republic. It wants:
No borders.
The free flow of peoples (regardless of how dangerous those individuals may be).
The end of sovereignty.
The end of our Capitalist Constitutional Republic in favor of a more Marxist, socialist nation, which throughout history, has never worked well.
The implementation of George Soros' New World Order of a One World Government, whereby individual peoples no longer get to vote their preference, but must fall in line with foreign entities making the decisions.
The disarming of the law-abiding public so that the Marxist ideology can be implemented without resistance.
Instead of individualism, group think and group obedience is mandated.
Those not agreeing with these goals would be "re-educated," just as they are in other nations, such as China, North Korea and Vietnam.
So, the right and left will never come together and as long as both are at the far end of their spectrums, they never will.

 

[rightwinger]

So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.
.

I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.

How can we reach general agreement with a party that wants us to have no southern border and import a million illegal aliens a year to vote for their socialist agenda?

I don't know if you can get broad consensus for your agenda or not. But for large symbolic changes - like ACA, like the border wall - shoving something through with slim, partisan support benefits no one. It just leaves a pissed off minority who will undercut whatever you're trying to accomplish as soon as they're back in power. It's senseless thrashing. Even if it's only a few things, wouldn't it be better to pursue changes that (most) everyone can agree on?

Look at Social Security. Regardless of what we might think of it (I'm not a fan), it's been a "successful" government program. In as much as it has never been under any real threat, and still has the broad support of voters. Now look at the vote totals: House: 372/33 Senate: 77/6 with the wide majority of Republicans voting in favor in both houses.

There is common ground to be had. It won't be your ideal. I'm sure it won't be mine. But it might be something we can live with, without leaving behind a bevy of angry partisans ready to undo it all on the next election cycle.

Comparing the ACA, which is socialism, with the wall is insane for two reasons. The ACA is socialism, the wall is security. Redistribution of wealth and protecting us from criminals and poor people draining our educational and medical system and filling our jails is a false equivalency.

Second, "border security" polls highly, it's not a slim margin. The wall has been stigmatized as a political issue by Democrats and people are afraid to be for it lest they be called a racist. But if you look at what the wall does, it has broad support. It's hard to see that there's going to be an issue when it is built (fingers crossed) and works.

Social Security is again socialism. It's armed robbery regardless of who supports it. You'd get that if you were a libertarian

Link

 

[Coyote]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Nobody on the right or left is or has been under any delusion that all will fall in line with their particular line of thinking. Those on the right know that the progressive republicans are far apart from the Freedom Caucus conservatives and getting to get in line together would be difficult, if not impossible.
So too are the liberals far apart from the far-left neo-Marxist body.
The current hostility we are facing stems from the fact that the right has swayed too far right and the left has swayed too far left; both are in the extremes.
The left will never garner the middle-America vote because it is abandoning our Constitutional Republic. It wants:
No borders.
The free flow of peoples (regardless of how dangerous those individuals may be).
The end of sovereignty.
The end of our Capitalist Constitutional Republic in favor of a more Marxist, socialist nation, which throughout history, has never worked well.
The implementation of George Soros' New World Order of a One World Government, whereby individual peoples no longer get to vote their preference, but must fall in line with foreign entities making the decisions.
The disarming of the law-abiding public so that the Marxist ideology can be implemented without resistance.
Instead of individualism, group think and group obedience is mandated.
Those not agreeing with these goals would be "re-educated," just as they are in other nations, such as China, North Korea and Vietnam.
So, the right and left will never come together and as long as both are at the far end of their spectrums, they never will.

You are wrong about what the left wants.

 

[Coyote]

Would you care to give your best example of the GOP offering "exclusion"?

Really?
If you have to ask that question then you'll never get it.

The GOP would LOVE to get some support from minority voters that agree with us on the issues.


We've tried.


That's an attempt at INCLUSION.


Do you want me to back that up? I'll be happy to.


I challenge you to give me your best example of the GOP being "exclusion".

Republicans found it more profitable to use minorities as scapegoats for all that is wrong with society

That is true....but the Democrats have also started taking them for granted.

How so (have Democrats started taking minorities for granted)?

I think they take their votes for granted. Clinton seemed to.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Nobody on the right or left is or has been under any delusion that all will fall in line with their particular line of thinking. Those on the right know that the progressive republicans are far apart from the Freedom Caucus conservatives and getting to get in line together would be difficult, if not impossible.
So too are the liberals far apart from the far-left neo-Marxist body.
The current hostility we are facing stems from the fact that the right has swayed too far right and the left has swayed too far left; both are in the extremes.
The left will never garner the middle-America vote because it is abandoning our Constitutional Republic. It wants:
No borders.
The free flow of peoples (regardless of how dangerous those individuals may be).
The end of sovereignty.
The end of our Capitalist Constitutional Republic in favor of a more Marxist, socialist nation, which throughout history, has never worked well.
The implementation of George Soros' New World Order of a One World Government, whereby individual peoples no longer get to vote their preference, but must fall in line with foreign entities making the decisions.
The disarming of the law-abiding public so that the Marxist ideology can be implemented without resistance.
Instead of individualism, group think and group obedience is mandated.
Those not agreeing with these goals would be "re-educated," just as they are in other nations, such as China, North Korea and Vietnam.
So, the right and left will never come together and as long as both are at the far end of their spectrums, they never will.

You are wrong about what the left wants.

Then you might want to silence the leftists that march and riot in cities. They're making themselves pretty clear.

 

[Oldstyle]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

We have to prove ourselves over time? Dude, it's been a little over a year since Trump was sworn in as President and he's been under nonstop attack from the main stream media and you on the left ever since he beat Hillary yet he's STILL managing to accomplish much of what he promised to do when he campaigned.

You seem to think because he DIDN'T yank the entire country over to his way of looking things overnight...that he's failed! That's quite frankly one of the dumber things someone's posted on here in quite some time. Let's be honest here...there is a HUGE part of the population that will still hate Trump no matter how successful his policies are and quite a few of them will hate him MORE if he's successful! You might want to "examine" that!

Eight years, and you never accepted Obama. Until Trump stops having tantrums and chaos, he is dangerous and I will not make that the new normal.

I’d damn near kill for a “tan suit” news cycle.

Eight years and I never agreed with Obama's POLICIES! I never thought he wasn't President. Do you grasp the HUGE difference? I didn't hold my breath and stamp my feet like so many of you on the left are doing now when he beat John McCain or Mitt Romney!

Tantrums? When does Trump have tantrums? Oh, let me guess...is it when he calls out the main stream media with tweets? I bet you miss George W. Bush who turned the other cheek when you on the left attacked him! Newsflash...Donald Trump isn't a 'turn the other cheek" kind of guy! Attack him and he'll attack you right back! Especially when you try to do it with nonsense like "Russian Collusion"!

 

[Oldstyle]

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

I disagree. In this day and age identity politics is the scapegoating of another group as the cause of someone's difficulties and promising that in return for your vote...I'll take from them and give to you.

If you say so. The Dems obviously don't care about anyone except white men. The policies we promote are all geared toward helping only white men. But we are sneaky. We TELL minorities, women and gay people that we care. And they are sooo stupid, they believe us!

It's awesome!

From my experience, Democratic leadership cares about one thing and one thing alone...staying in office so they can continue to enrich themselves. That's it...bottom line!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

I disagree. In this day and age identity politics is the scapegoating of another group as the cause of someone's difficulties and promising that in return for your vote...I'll take from them and give to you.

If you say so. The Dems obviously don't care about anyone except white men. The policies we promote are all geared toward helping only white men. But we are sneaky. We TELL minorities, women and gay people that we care. And they are sooo stupid, they believe us!

It's awesome!

From my experience, Democratic leadership cares about one thing and one thing alone...staying in office so they can continue to enrich themselves. That's it...bottom line!

Yeah? Well then, you must be right. You should vote for Republicans.

 

[MaryL]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Do tell. Instead we could have had President Hillary instead and that fascist dreamer utopia she would have forced on us. Trump sucks, true. But if he puts a roadblock in all that weirdo lefty group think gay rights pro illegal alien propaganda, for a while, anyway. I really truly just want America to be American, not weirdo sex perverts illegal aliens pseudo whatever fill in the blanks America. Really truly America.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don’t know if this is even viable, but my thinking is bring our soldiers home, all of them. Retrain them, and put them to work guarding and patrolling our borders and rebuilding our infrastructure.

For me, that’s a good start in the right direction.

Russian agent?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

The First Law of thermodynamics is; 'There is no such thing as a free lunch'. Progressive Democrats have to accept conservative Supreme Court Justices as the price for an unlimited spending budget.

The Second Law of thermodynamics is; 'Shit Happens'. So when Democrats impeach Trump, President Pence will probably appoint Ted Cruz as his Vice President.

Democrats may get the votes to impeach Trump if their dreams come true, but he will never be removed. The Dems can't get the votes in the Senate to do it, just like Clinton survived.

 

[MaryL]

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

I disagree. In this day and age identity politics is the scapegoating of another group as the cause of someone's difficulties and promising that in return for your vote...I'll take from them and give to you.

If you say so. The Dems obviously don't care about anyone except white men. The policies we promote are all geared toward helping only white men. But we are sneaky. We TELL minorities, women and gay people that we care. And they are sooo stupid, they believe us!

It's awesome!

From my experience, Democratic leadership cares about one thing and one thing alone...staying in office so they can continue to enrich themselves. That's it...bottom line!

That is evey politician from Washington to Trump. Political action committees, they are the thumbs on the scale, and they need to be abolished, Please, bless all of them (from pro guns rights, pro Illegal aliens or phony gay rights) god bless em'. that interfere with our political process. You people are concerned with Russian Bias? That is a laugh, what about all this pro Mexican shit, what "immigrant' needed sanctuary from federal laws before mexicans?

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

I voted for Trump, and it's rather simple. I hate Trump, too. Mexicans, illegal aliens and sanctuary cities, I loathe that even more, and the fact we live in a democracy, were NEVER EVER asked if we wanted to give sanctuary to illegal aliens.we as a democracy, had a tiny group of carpetbaggers tell US what is good for us...I for one, despise that, and oppose with every breath I take, from were the sun now stands.. Asshole politicians.

 

[MaryL]

Do you have concerns about the demographic changes that have already occurred? I hate to point out an inconvenient truth, Mac but Democrats may have lost the Rust Belt. Blue collar workers don't think you care about them anymore. Union workers don't think you care about them anymore. So what happens if blacks and Hispanics start to prosper under Trump? You guys have been long on promises for both of those communities and short on follow through. Do you have concerns about a shift in loyalties if Trump's policies start making life better for people in general?

Most importantly, if Trump's and/or Republican policies kick ass, then I'm all for it. I'm not ideological. They're invited to prove me wrong. I'm wrong all the time, just ask my wife.

But your last point is important, because it goes to #2 in the OP: I'm from a mixed-race family. I married into a mixed-race family, and I'm telling ya: With minorities and the GOP, it ain't about jobs or the economy or the stock market. That's the mistake conservatives are making, assuming that minorities have the same priorities. They. Do. Not.

Minorities still feel like outcasts in their own country. And until the GOP recognizes that and specifically addresses it, nothing else is going to matter. Now, if you respond with "the Democrats have essentially cheated with their divisive Identity Politics and PC", well, yeah, I agree. But it is what it is. We are where we are. So the GOP can either continue to not see this, or they can wake up. I don't think they're going to wake up.
.

Identity politics is expressing concern and caring for groups of people and then legislating accordingly.. It generally works to gain acceptance among said group.

I disagree. In this day and age identity politics is the scapegoating of another group as the cause of someone's difficulties and promising that in return for your vote...I'll take from them and give to you.

If you say so. The Dems obviously don't care about anyone except white men. The policies we promote are all geared toward helping only white men. But we are sneaky. We TELL minorities, women and gay people that we care. And they are sooo stupid, they believe us!

It's awesome!

From my experience, Democratic leadership cares about one thing and one thing alone...staying in office so they can continue to enrich themselves. That's it...bottom line!

That is evey politician from Washington to Trump. Political action committees, they are the thumbs on the scale, and they need to be abolished, Please, bless all of them (from pro guns rights, pro Illegal aliens or phony gay rights) god bless em'. that interfere with our political process. You people are concerned with Russian Bias? That is a laugh, what about all this pro Mexican shit, what "immigrant' needed sanctuary from federal laws before mexicans?

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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I voted for Trump, and it's rather simple. I hate Trump, too. Mexicans, illegal aliens and sanctuary cities, I loathe that even more, and the fact we live in a democracy, we were NEVER EVER asked if we wanted to give sanctuary to illegal aliens, NOPE .We live in a democracy, but we instead have a tiny group of carpetbaggers tell US what is good for us...I for one, despise that, and oppose that with every breath I take, from were the sun now stands.. Asshole politicians.

 

[DOTR]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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You are selling yourself a lie...and the first starts with "conservatism". It has been a failure. It is THAT recognition which put Trump in office and will keep him there.
Nobody thought it would go "swimmingly". Well nobody with a brain. You can check my previous posts on this back as long as I have been a member. Trump is doing fine but we know we face an entrenched elite. Trump was the political hand grenade we threw into the swamp but that is only part of the battle.
If you are speaking of the spending bill we know democrats will always hold the military hostage for their constituents overseas. I think Trump knows it as well.

But you snicker because the people are thwarted again. That only makes your reckoning worse.