Consequence Culture - Gina Carano, Colin Kaepernick, The Dixie Chicks and Jane Fonda

[Canon Shooter]

Uh, huh. Actually, you've presented a narrative that makes little or no sense, and if you were in the right, you'd have had all your facts lined up.

Actually, the only narrative that matters is that an employee was misappropriating funds. Period. That's all you need to know. Your accusations that he "made a mistake" are laughable. If that's all it was he wouldn't have plead guilty to avoid jail time. He wouldn't have paid restitution and his name wouldn't be kryptonite in the industry. He made over $100K a year while he worked for me and drove a really sweet Corvette. He now works at Auto Zone for $14 an hour and drives a 1985 Chrysler Laser.

I chuckle, just a little, when I think of that.

You don't have all the facts for no other reason than you're nothing but some blowhard lying loser on the internet trying to pretend as though he knows everything about everything...

Kind of hard to use "knowledge" when dealing with people who don't listen. We told Nose Candy for years what he had to fix, but instead he let problems keep getting worse.

Oh, I've had employees who believed they would know what was best for my business. As I always solicit input from my people, I looked at his suggestions and had a good laugh. I'd probably be in the poorhouse now had I followed them...

Darn straight I was upset. Some of us put lots of hours in there, had been with the company for years.... But when you give more of a shit than the owners and managers, it's time to leave.

Did you need a tissue?

 

[Canon Shooter]

In the public arena though, you shouldn't be able to punish people for their speech.

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that you should be able to avoid repercussions from what you say about your boss while not on the company dime?

 

[Synthaholic]

Was Tebow kept from playing? No.

Such a statement suggests that you believe the NFL had some responsibility to ensure that Kaepernick stayed employed.

No, such a statement suggests that the NFL was responsible for ensuring that Kaepernick stayed unemployed.

Kaepernick didn't have the skills that NFL teams needed. His last season in the NFL the 49'ers were 2-14. The only conclusion NFL teams could make is that he didn't have what it took any more. Furthermore, when he had the chance to show them whether or not he still had it, he walked away. I think only seven teams were not in attendance, and he reneged.

He sealed his own fate...

You're a dishonest piece of shit aren't you? I should just block you.
10 QBs were worse.
7 QBs were as good.
15 QBs were better.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/sports/kaepernick-tracker/

 

[beagle9]

This isn’t complicated.

Freedom of speech does not shield one from repercussions there after.

Hmm...its supposed to, otherwise, what is the point of having free speech? If you will be punished for your speech, then it really isn't "free" is it?

Good point, but I guess it depends on the thought of what supposed free speech can be used. There are limits, but only if crossing certain lines. Speech can get into the illegal relm's, and this is where our laws take over. I still like your point though..

 

[ThisIsMe]

In the public arena though, you shouldn't be able to punish people for their speech.

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that you should be able to avoid repercussions from what you say about your boss while not on the company dime?

No, I said that employers have rules about how you should treat other employees, and that applies even when away from work.

What I mean is, you should be able to speak your mind in public places, such as forums and social media, without fear of reprisal. The fact that we do have consequence means the whole concept of free speech is actually null. In truth, we don't actually have free speech, since, as you pointed out, and as we have seen in recent news, your words do have consequence. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

I guess it is true, free speech only applies to government regulating your ability to speak, in the public sphere, people have made sure you can't speak your mind.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, outside of government, free speech doesn't actually exist.

 

[ThisIsMe]

This isn’t complicated.

Freedom of speech does not shield one from repercussions there after.

Hmm...its supposed to, otherwise, what is the point of having free speech? If you will be punished for your speech, then it really isn't "free" is it?

Good point, but I guess it depends on the thought of what supposed free speech can be used. There are limits, but only if crossing certain lines. Speech can get into the illegal relm's, and this is where our laws take over. I still like your point though..

Well, the truth is, cannon shooter is right, we don't actually have free speech. Even thought the government shouldn't be able to censor and punish you for your words, the public sure can. He is right, you have to mind your words, or suffer consequences. If you take to social media and say something, and your employer gets wind of it, you can be fired. Or if someone you do business with, they can cancel your business together.

Like I said before, cancel culture is here, and its vicious, and both sides do it, and get ready, because its here to stay.

Man, George Orwell was right.....

 

[Canon Shooter]

You're a dishonest piece of shit aren't you? I should just block you.

Oh, don't tease me...

 

[Canon Shooter]

In the public arena though, you shouldn't be able to punish people for their speech.

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that you should be able to avoid repercussions from what you say about your boss while not on the company dime?

No, I said that employers have rules about how you should treat other employees, and that applies even when away from work.

What I mean is, you should be able to speak your mind in public places, such as forums and social media, without fear of reprisal. The fact that we do have consequence means the whole concept of free speech is actually null. In truth, we don't actually have free speech, since, as you pointed out, and as we have seen in recent news, your words do have consequence. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

I guess it is true, free speech only applies to government regulating your ability to speak, in the public sphere, people have made sure you can't speak your mind.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, outside of government, free speech doesn't actually exist.

You always have the right to say what you want to say (the crowded theater thing being the exception).

No one is telling you you can;t call your boss a cocksucker. You are free to do that. But to expect to be able to do that and be absolved of any responsibility for having said it is silly. There's nothing about the concept of free speech which means you can't suffer repercussions for saying something. If you know your boss will fire you for calling his a cocksucker, and you call him that and he finds out and fires you, well, you freely made the choice to say it. That's what's meant by freedom of speech.

Not that you shouldn't be held to account for your words...

 

[beagle9]

In the public arena though, you shouldn't be able to punish people for their speech.

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that you should be able to avoid repercussions from what you say about your boss while not on the company dime?

No, I said that employers have rules about how you should treat other employees, and that applies even when away from work.

What I mean is, you should be able to speak your mind in public places, such as forums and social media, without fear of reprisal. The fact that we do have consequence means the whole concept of free speech is actually null. In truth, we don't actually have free speech, since, as you pointed out, and as we have seen in recent news, your words do have consequence. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

I guess it is true, free speech only applies to government regulating your ability to speak, in the public sphere, people have made sure you can't speak your mind.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, outside of government, free speech doesn't actually exist.

You always have the right to say what you want to say (the crowded theater thing being the exception).

No one is telling you you can;t call your boss a cocksucker. You are free to do that. But to expect to be able to do that and be absolved of any responsibility for having said it is silly. There's nothing about the concept of free speech which means you can't suffer repercussions for saying something. If you know your boss will fire you for calling his a cocksucker, and you call him that and he finds out and fires you, well, you freely made the choice to say it. That's what's meant by freedom of speech.

Not that you shouldn't be held to account for your words...

Agree..... Another example is "someone calls your mama a (#*"@$), and you retaliate immediately. Well speech has consequences at that point for sure.

Might end up in jail for it, but ohhh well. LOL

 

[Pogo]

With Kaepernick, yes he has the right to express his own opinion and receive the consequences.
In his case, his freedom to protest or express opposition is SEPARATE from
1. Using paid company time to make political statements on public TV while working under contract to represent that company or team
2. Misrepresenting the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner as targeting Black slaves when the real context around the verses applied to both Black and White men forced to fight for the British under forced impressment of sailors. Again, you can have and express your own opinion on what the contested lyrics applied to, but spreading misrpresentation to incite more conflict is going to meet with objections and consequences.

Number 1: the national anthem before a football game is (a) NOT "company time" as the game he's paid to play doesn't begin until the kickoff, and (b) is NOT on any kind of TV, public or commercial, because the broadcast begins with the kickoff --- AFTER that political theater stunt has already happened.

In fact the only reason this became a "thing" at all was that some photographer, who by his own tongue-clicking standard was supposed to be standing in rapt adoring fetish-prayer, instead snapped a picture of Kaepernick from behind, sitting quietly on the bench making no waves at all. THAT is who started this bullshit, not Kaepernick. See post 644 and the twenty kabillion skillion times we've done this same point in the past which was apparently talking to the FUCKING WALL.

By the way, care to explain to the class how a football player sitting quietly on the bench during the anthem is somehow outrage-worthy, while a photographer peeping around to see what kind of yellow journalism story he can make up ALSO during the anthem, is not?

Number 2: Where did Kaepernick "misrepresent the lyrics of the SSB"?

 

[Pogo]

Having the right to say something doesn't absolve you of the ramifications for saying it. I

How true. Such as here.

We continue to sit and wait for that link to "the shit-stained left". But we continue to not expect anything.
Ramifications. And responsibilities.

 

[JoeB131]

True, because that would be my boss, and in a company, they have rules about that sort of thing.

In the public arena though, you shouldn't be able to punish people for their speech.

I've already said that what happened to Carano and Kapernick was the right of the their employers. I don't agree with them, but it is their right. Cancel culture is wrong, no matter which side does it.

Except there is no "Cancel Culture", there is only consequence culture. Carano and Kapernick were fired because their employers realized they were toxic to their fanbase.

Particularly the NFL, who has kept on wife beaters, drug users, and people caught dog fighting... But man, don't engage in an empty ceremony of standing when a song is played... and you're through.

 

[JoeB131]

Bitch, please. Michael Vick found a job, surely Kaepernick would've. The fact is that he waited until the last minute to drop out of it. He's unemployed because of his own actions...

You are kind of making my point for me. Mike Vick actually committed a crime and went to jail. The NFL forgave him. Kap insulted America's racism, which was unforgivable.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, the only narrative that matters is that an employee was misappropriating funds. Period. That's all you need to know. Your accusations that he "made a mistake" are laughable. If that's all it was he wouldn't have plead guilty to avoid jail time. He wouldn't have paid restitution and his name wouldn't be kryptonite in the industry. He made over $100K a year while he worked for me and drove a really sweet Corvette. He now works at Auto Zone for $14 an hour and drives a 1985 Chrysler Laser.

Again, sounds like bad management on your part that he could... or thought he could.

I chuckle, just a little, when I think of that.

Of course you do. Because you are an awful person. Me, I'd never take any joy in someone else's misfortune.

You don't have all the facts for no other reason than you're nothing but some blowhard lying loser on the internet trying to pretend as though he knows everything about everything...

Again, given your narrative keeps changing on this story, I have to go by what you are saying. You fucked up as a manager and scapegoated some poor schlub who thought he was trying to do something good. Me, I would have maybe been happy with firing him. That you abused the criminal justice system and ruined his career makes you sound like a vindictive twit.

Oh, I've had employees who believed they would know what was best for my business. As I always solicit input from my people, I looked at his suggestions and had a good laugh. I'd probably be in the poorhouse now had I followed them...

But you are on your little dungheep company, looking at the big boys, buying plane tickets for buyers hoping they'll throw business your way. Whoops. You gave someone a plane ticket without authorization? I'll trump up charges against you.

Did you need a tissue?

Nope. We need

 

[ThisIsMe]

True, because that would be my boss, and in a company, they have rules about that sort of thing.

In the public arena though, you shouldn't be able to punish people for their speech.

I've already said that what happened to Carano and Kapernick was the right of the their employers. I don't agree with them, but it is their right. Cancel culture is wrong, no matter which side does it.

Except there is no "Cancel Culture", there is only consequence culture. Carano and Kapernick were fired because their employers realized they were toxic to their fanbase.

Particularly the NFL, who has kept on wife beaters, drug users, and people caught dog fighting... But man, don't engage in an empty ceremony of standing when a song is played... and you're through.

Well, cancel culture does exist, and consequence culture does too.

Both can be part of the same scenario, and both can be separate.

These are the differences, to me:

Consequemce culture: when someone does or says something egregious and embarrassing to a company and the company decides its not good for business, and decided to let them go.

Cancel culture: when someone does or says something that is interpreted by one group to be offensive and that group mounts a campaign against the company they represent and pressures them to take action.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Again, sounds like bad management on your part that he could... or thought he could.

You keep saying that, but you remain ignorant of all the facts.

Making assumptions, as you do, only proves how stupid you are...

Of course you do. Because you are an awful person. Me, I'd never take any joy in someone else's misfortune.

"Misfortune"? The guy was essentially stealing from my company. If it wasn't illegal I'd have thrown him out a third floor window. Fuck him. He's earned every bad thing that comes his way...

Again, given your narrative keeps changing on this story, I have to go by what you are saying. You fucked up as a manager and scapegoated some poor schlub who thought he was trying to do something good. Me, I would have maybe been happy with firing him. That you abused the criminal justice system and ruined his career makes you sound like a vindictive twit.

If someone steals thousands of dollars from your company, what would you do? Give him a hug?

And where did I abuse the criminal justice system?

Vindictive? Yeah. Fuck yeah, I am, and this stupid son of a bitch learned that the hard way. You wanna' fuck me over? Well, I fuck back...

But you are on your little dungheep company, looking at the big boys, buying plane tickets for buyers hoping they'll throw business your way. Whoops. You gave someone a plane ticket without authorization? I'll trump up charges against you.

The district attorney made the recommendation of the charges. I actually don't have the power to do that, dummy.

And my "dungheep" company made me a shit-ton of money last year, while you beg people to let you write their resume for $139 a pop...

Nope. We need

You must be back on the bottle again. Looks like you passed out there...[/QUOTE]

 

[Canon Shooter]

Bitch, please. Michael Vick found a job, surely Kaepernick would've. The fact is that he waited until the last minute to drop out of it. He's unemployed because of his own actions...

You are kind of making my point for me. Mike Vick actually committed a crime and went to jail. The NFL forgave him. Kap insulted America's racism, which was unforgivable.

No, Michael Vick got a job because he was actually still a good quarterback.

The 49'ers went 2-14 in Kaepernick's final season...

 

[JoeB131]

Well, cancel culture does exist, and consequence culture does too.

Both can be part of the same scenario, and both can be separate.

These are the differences, to me:

Consequemce culture: when someone does or says something egregious and embarrassing to a company and the company decides its not good for business, and decided to let them go.

Cancel culture: when someone does or says something that is interpreted by one group to be offensive and that group mounts a campaign against the company they represent and pressures them to take action.

Okay... good point.

So by your logic, Kaepernack was definitely a victim of Cancel Culture. Perhaps Carano as well.

 

[JoeB131]

You keep saying that, but you remain ignorant of all the facts.

Making assumptions, as you do, only proves how stupid you are...

Well, when you present me some 'Facts"., let me know. Frankly, you've presented a narrative that really doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, what was his plan, exactly, he'd go to a customer and try to sell them something by buying them presents, even though he wasn't the designated rep. Probably more to this story you are leaving out because it makes you look bad.

"Misfortune"? The guy was essentially stealing from my company. If it wasn't illegal I'd have thrown him out a third floor window. Fuck him. He's earned every bad thing that comes his way...

He wasn't essentially stealing. He was using a resource you gave him in the wrong way. Probably because you didn't make it clear what his responsibilities were.

If someone steals thousands of dollars from your company, what would you do? Give him a hug?

And where did I abuse the criminal justice system?

Well, to start with, it's actually there to punish criminals. Now, if he was using these funds to buy things for himself, um, yeah... totally with you, that would be theft. He was buying things trying to generate sales for your company. Sounds like kind of a dumb plan... but hey, this sort of petty bribery might be common in your industry. I've worked in industries where bribes flew aplenty, I've worked in industries where you couldn't let a vendor buy you lunch.

But since you are leaving out big chunks of this story, and you basically have kind of shown yourself to be an awful person overall, I'm probably going to go with, "You scapegoated this guy out of spite."

Vindictive? Yeah. Fuck yeah, I am

Glad we've established that. So what does that get you? I guess it makes all the other wage-slaves scared... which if you are a malignant Narcissist, makes sense.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Well, cancel culture does exist, and consequence culture does too.

Both can be part of the same scenario, and both can be separate.

These are the differences, to me:

Consequemce culture: when someone does or says something egregious and embarrassing to a company and the company decides its not good for business, and decided to let them go.

Cancel culture: when someone does or says something that is interpreted by one group to be offensive and that group mounts a campaign against the company they represent and pressures them to take action.

Okay... good point.

So by your logic, Kaepernack was definitely a victim of Cancel Culture. Perhaps Carano as well.

Well, was kapernick fired because of a pressure campaign against his employers by a group of people who decided they didn't like what he did? If so, then yes, it was canceled culture.

I think Carano was canceled. They say Disney was looking for a reason to fire her anyway, but that doesn't make sense because it appears Disney was looking to give her her own series up until that point. You wouldnt do that if you were looking for a way to fire her.