Consequence Culture - Gina Carano, Colin Kaepernick, The Dixie Chicks and Jane Fonda

[Jets]

This isn’t complicated.

Freedom of speech does not shield one from repercussions there after.

But that doesn't make sense. If you got punished for free speech then it means there is no free speech.

Free speech does not necessarily negate consequences thereafter.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Yes...her career was so "over" by 1981 that...she got nominated as best supporting actress in the year's second highest grossing movie! (Second to Raiders of the Lost Ark-she lost the Oscar to Maureen Stapleton in Reds.)

Okay... and let's look at that, Ditchweed. By 1981, Ronald Reagan had gotten into office calling Vietnam a "Nobel Cause". Hollywood had also started releasing Rambo Movies, which perpetuated the mythology of hippies spitting on soldiers and the whole "Stabbed in the Back" Myth. The whole legend that there were some POW's in some Vietnam camps started being perpetuated, and everyone flew those stupid POW/MIA flags.

View attachment 465017

In short, by 1981, we had moved from "thank God we got out of that stupid war our politicians lied us into" to "Why did those hippies like Jane Fonda betray us in our noble cause". It was just inconceivable to Americans that America could lose a war.

So while she had been doing two to three major films in the 1970's a year, that trickled down to one film every two years during the 80's... and her career pretty much ends in 1990 until she got a revival in the Oughts playing supporting characters and Voiceover work.

Yes, Jane Fonda got cancelled.

That post takes bullshit to very near it's ultimate level. "Stabbed in the Back" was very much true and has always been grossly understated. I was there and one those soldiers stabbed in the back by traitors and communist sympathizers. Millions of innocent South Vietnamese people were slaughtered, sent to "reeducation camps" or otherwise grossly abused because my Country chose to renege on it's promises. We didn't lose a war. American traitors gave one away when they ceased to find it amusing.
Jane Fonda deserves to have spent all these years in a solitary prison cell and there will still be a very long line waiting to piss on her grave when she dies.
Weather she got canceled or not is irrelevant because that far less than what she deserved.

 

[ESay]

This isn’t complicated.

Freedom of speech does not shield one from repercussions there after.

But that doesn't make sense. If you got punished for free speech then it means there is no free speech.

Free speech does not necessarily negate consequences thereafter.

Well, your stance reminded me an old Soviet anecdote.

Nixon and Brezhnev were taking part in some international conference. One of them came down to the other and an argument erupted between them. At one point Nixon said: "You don't have free speech in the Soviet Union at all. Here, every person can come to the White House gates and chant 'Nixon, go away!"

Brezhnev answered: "Ha. What a big deal! In Moscow every person can come to the Kremlin gates and chant 'Nixon, go away!" too.

 

[9thIDdoc]

it is not a myth that hippies/anti-war folks spit on returning soldiers...it happened....the returning servicemen were treated horribly, in part because of people like Fonda

No, actually, it's a complete fabrication.

There's not one documented case of it in contemporary media, such as "Hippy spits on soldier" or "Hippy in Hospital after Soldier kicks his ass."

OPINION EXCHANGE | The myth of the spat-upon war veteran

This legend is repeated even by presidents. The evidence doesn't bear it out.

www.startribune.com

In his exhaustive book entitled "The Spitting Image," Vietnam vet and Holy Cross Prof. Jerry Lembcke documents veterans who claim they were spat on by antiwar protestors, but he found no physical evidence (photographs, news reports, etc.) that these transgressions actually occurred. His findings are supported by surveys of his fellow Vietnam veterans as they came home.

For instance, Lembcke notes that "a U.S. Senate study, based on data collected in August 1971 by Harris Associates, found that 75 percent of Vietnam-era veterans polled disagreed with the statement, 'Those people at home who opposed the Vietnam war often blame veterans for our involvement there'" while "94 percent said their reception by people their own age who had not served in the armed forces was friendly."

Meanwhile, the Veterans' World Project at Southern Illinois University found that many Vietnam vets supported the antiwar protest, with researchers finding almost no veterans "finish[ing] their service in Vietnam believing that what the United States has done there has served to forward our nation's purposes."

In short, it was a myth made up, not unlike the Dolchstoßlegende of post World War I Germany that Germany had not been defeated, but stabbed in the back by Jews and Communists. America simply couldn't accept they had lost a war that it never really wanted to fight to start with. Someone was to blame. It was those damned hippies!!!!

Also there were a number of very big, popular Vietnam movies well before 1981...the Deer Hunter for example, Apocalypse Now,......face it Fonda wasn't cancelled, although she is likely one of the few people that really should have been

Do you really think those movies were "celebrations" of Vietnam? Neither showed the war in a good light.

the point about those movies is they weren't movies like Rambo that celebrated myths like soldiers being spat upon or the Vietnamese were holding Americans after the war and our government wasn't bothering to rescue them.

In short, instead of our wrath being where it should have been directed, at political leaders of BOTH PARTIES who instigated, escalated and deceived the public about the war, we turned our wrath on the people who actually had the integrity to say, "No, this is wrong."

The "scandal" of Fonda's Hanoi visit was not that she was dumb enough to get herself photographed sitting on an AA gun, it was that she went around showing that we were bombing hospitals and schools and homes of people who weren't a threat to us.

This post is a complete and deliberate lie. And is nothing more than a rehashing of vile communist propaganda. I saw it and Iived it. I helped treat a young soldier who had never even been overseas who, along with several others, were assaulted by those alleged peace-loving hippies and had battery acid thrown in his eyes. No evidence (other than eye witnesses)? Massive evidence was shown on TV news reports every day and discussed in every newspaper across the Nation. No evidence? You have just worked very hard at not seeing it.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Yes...her career was so "over" by 1981 that...she got nominated as best supporting actress in the year's second highest grossing movie! (Second to Raiders of the Lost Ark-she lost the Oscar to Maureen Stapleton in Reds.)

Okay... and let's look at that, Ditchweed. By 1981, Ronald Reagan had gotten into office calling Vietnam a "Nobel Cause". Hollywood had also started releasing Rambo Movies, which perpetuated the mythology of hippies spitting on soldiers and the whole "Stabbed in the Back" Myth. The whole legend that there were some POW's in some Vietnam camps started being perpetuated, and everyone flew those stupid POW/MIA flags.

View attachment 465017

In short, by 1981, we had moved from "thank God we got out of that stupid war our politicians lied us into" to "Why did those hippies like Jane Fonda betray us in our noble cause". It was just inconceivable to Americans that America could lose a war.

So while she had been doing two to three major films in the 1970's a year, that trickled down to one film every two years during the 80's... and her career pretty much ends in 1990 until she got a revival in the Oughts playing supporting characters and Voiceover work.

Yes, Jane Fonda got cancelled.

Interestingly, the North Vietnamese propaganda tool - the contrived photo-op - was embraced and promoted as a propaganda tool by those who were hellbent upon perpetuating the sacrifice of American lives in the costly U.S. intervention into the Vietnamese Civil War. Both sides hyped it in furtherance of their respective, diametrically-opposed agendas, advocates for the invading forces more so. That there are those who still find propaganda value in a pic of an attractive young woman sitting at a gun is rather astounding. Maybe the NRA should buy the rights to promote their agenda.

Fonda's opposition to the bloody fiasco, dramatized by her 1972 trio to Vietnam, reflected what had already become the common opposition to the war expressed by most Americans.

During the waning days of U.S. military involvement in Vietnam, Fonda visited North Vietnamese villages, hospitals, schools, and factories damaged in the war, weaving her comments about what she observed at those sites with denunciations of U.S. military policy.

April 28, 2000​

​

Twenty-five years after the fall of Saigon, most Americans still feel that their country's involvement in the Vietnam War was a bad idea, according to a CBS News/New York Times Poll.​

​

The majority of Republicans and Democrats as well as of the demographic groups measured agree on this point, but feelings are especially pronounced among Americans of draft age during the war—those now 45 to 64: Sixty-seven percent of 45- to 64-year-olds think the United States should have stayed out of the fighting.​

​

Vietnam War - Opposition to the War

Brief introductory background information and history of the Vietnam War.

www.globalsecurity.org

​

​

“It hurts me and it will to my grave that I made a huge, huge mistake that made a lot of people think I was against the soldiers.”

The idea that the majority of Americans thought we should yield to communist aggression in Vietnam is at best wild speculation and much more likely just another communist lie perpetuated by their sympathizers. It is well documented that Jane Fonda aided and abetted a foreign enemy nation that was currently engaged in the killing and maiming of American soldiers and innocent civilians in several neighboring countries. And at the time she was proud of that and included that pride as part of her role in spreading communist propaganda.

 

[JoeB131]

Then you are pointless because none of those people have been vindicated.

Actually, they all were.

Colin was. Now the NFL allows kneeling, the big corporations are falling all over themselves to show they are down with the struggle, and state legislatures are finally passing police reform bills.

The Dixie Chicks were. No one is arguing that the Iraq War was a good idea at this point.

Jane - Well, she was right about Vietnam, this was probably a case of shooting the messenger.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Colin was. Now the NFL allows kneeling, the big corporations are falling all over themselves to show they are down with the struggle,

And how is that impacting attendance and viewing?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The biggest example of right wing cancel culture were the red scares and Joe McCarthy.

And that era was recognized for its anti-constitutionality.
But now democrats are repeating that on an exponential level and it’s supposed to be righteous.
You’re a hypocrite deluxe.

 

[JoeB131]

This post is a complete and deliberate lie. And is nothing more than a rehashing of vile communist propaganda. I saw it and Iived it. I helped treat a young soldier who had never even been overseas who, along with several others, were assaulted by those alleged peace-loving hippies and had battery acid thrown in his eyes.

Okay. Do you have a police report on that? Should have been a recorded incident.

Massive evidence was shown on TV news reports every day and discussed in every newspaper across the Nation. No evidence? You have just worked very hard at not seeing it.

Then you should have no problem linking to a contemporaneous newspaper article showing it happened.

The idea that the majority of Americans thought we should yield to communist aggression in Vietnam is at best wild speculation and much more likely just another communist lie perpetuated by their sympathizers.

Um, no, sorry buddy. Polls at the time showed the Public had turned against the war after the Tet Offensive.

By 1971, 60% of Americans thought sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake.

CBS News Poll: U.S. involvement in Vietnam

50 years after the Tet Offensive, the percentage of Americans who think the nation should have stayed out of the conflict has changed

www.cbsnews.com

It is well documented that Jane Fonda aided and abetted a foreign enemy nation that was currently engaged in the killing and maiming of American soldiers and innocent civilians in several neighboring countries. And at the time she was proud of that and included that pride as part of her role in spreading communist propaganda.

Okay. Here's the reality. We fought a long and pointless war the Pentagon concluded when it started was unwinnable because the Communists were popular and the French Quislings we were propping up were not.

Pentagon Papers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

And how is that impacting attendance and viewing?

Well, there was no attendance due to TRUMP PLAGUE

viewing was a little lower this year, but it was a truncated season.

 

[Meathead]

Nobody likes skanks.

 

[JoeB131]

That post takes bullshit to very near it's ultimate level. "Stabbed in the Back" was very much true and has always been grossly understated. I was there and one those soldiers stabbed in the back by traitors and communist sympathizers.

The Stabbed in the back myth was as much a lie in 1980's America as it was in 1920's Germany. We withdrew because working class America got tired of sending their boys off to die, and those boys when they did come back were just as likely to join an anti-war protest.

Millions of innocent South Vietnamese people were slaughtered, sent to "reeducation camps" or otherwise grossly abused because my Country chose to renege on it's promises. We didn't lose a war.

Really, let's look at that one. DURING the war, there were close to three million Vietnamese killed. After the war, not so much.

American traitors gave one away when they ceased to find it amusing.

No, they just asked the pretty basic question, what were we doing over there. The real problem was that if our goal was to prop up the Saigon Regime, when was that going to happen. We dumped hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives trying to prop them up, and the minute we stopped, they got knocked over in 55 days.

Jane Fonda deserves to have spent all these years in a solitary prison cell and there will still be a very long line waiting to piss on her grave when she dies.

Actually, maybe if we put the politicians who lied us into a war in prison instead of the people who objected, we wouldn't have fought a matching one in Iraq.

Weather she got canceled or not is irrelevant because that far less than what she deserved.

I'm just wondering why you don't have this level of ire for the people who started the war.

Look, buddy, I know you have a need to believe that you were part of a noble crusade rather than a complete fuckup by our politicians. (In fact, nearly all wars are the politicians fucking up.) But the thing about Vietnam was it was unnecessary.

We didn't belong there. It was a civil war among the Vietnamese and we picked the wrong side.

 

[Meathead]

That post takes bullshit to very near it's ultimate level. "Stabbed in the Back" was very much true and has always been grossly understated. I was there and one those soldiers stabbed in the back by traitors and communist sympathizers.

The Stabbed in the back myth was as much a lie in 1980's America as it was in 1920's Germany. We withdrew because working class America got tired of sending their boys off to die, and those boys when they did come back were just as likely to join an anti-war protest.

Millions of innocent South Vietnamese people were slaughtered, sent to "reeducation camps" or otherwise grossly abused because my Country chose to renege on it's promises. We didn't lose a war.

Really, let's look at that one. DURING the war, there were close to three million Vietnamese killed. After the war, not so much.

American traitors gave one away when they ceased to find it amusing.

No, they just asked the pretty basic question, what were we doing over there. The real problem was that if our goal was to prop up the Saigon Regime, when was that going to happen. We dumped hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives trying to prop them up, and the minute we stopped, they got knocked over in 55 days.

Jane Fonda deserves to have spent all these years in a solitary prison cell and there will still be a very long line waiting to piss on her grave when she dies.

Actually, maybe if we put the politicians who lied us into a war in prison instead of the people who objected, we wouldn't have fought a matching one in Iraq.

Weather she got canceled or not is irrelevant because that far less than what she deserved.

I'm just wondering why you don't have this level of ire for the people who started the war.

Look, buddy, I know you have a need to believe that you were part of a noble crusade rather than a complete fuckup by our politicians. (In fact, nearly all wars are the politicians fucking up.) But the thing about Vietnam was it was unnecessary.

We didn't belong there. It was a civil war among the Vietnamese and we picked the wrong side.

I'll give you this, insane or almost insane and with little discernible humor, you're still sick.

 

[Meathead]

Free speech does not necessarily negate consequences thereafter.

A pearl of wisdom, no doubt.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And how is that impacting attendance and viewing?

Well, there was no attendance due to TRUMP PLAGUE

viewing was a little lower this year, but it was a truncated season.

viewing was a little lower this year,

And the year before, and the year before that?

 

[JoeB131]

viewing was a little lower this year,

And the year before, and the year before that?

Okay. Frankly, while I wouldn't mind seeing the NFL go away, it's not going to.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

viewing was a little lower this year,

And the year before, and the year before that?

Okay. Frankly, while I wouldn't mind seeing the NFL go away, it's not going to.

Ratings were down this year, despite people being starved for entertainment.

 

[JoeB131]

Ratings were down this year, despite people being starved for entertainment.

Why would they be starved? Shit, I've never had as many entertainment options as I have now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why would they be starved?

There was a lockdown, there are limited (or zero) fans allowed at live events.

It was in all the papers.

 

[JoeB131]

There was a lockdown, there are limited (or zero) fans allowed at live events.

It was in all the papers.

Um, I already acknowledged that... I thought we were talking about how many people watched it on TV, and it was slightly less than last year.

But you can blame Kap kneeling if you want and it makes you feel better.