Confederate Flag Has Lots of Support

[there4eyeM]

What about the heroic Colonists that fought on the side of King George? They deserve nothing for their efforts against America? Shouldn't the the U.K. flag and its defenders be honored? It isn't even associated with racism.
And if we dig far enough, we might even find U.S. volunteers who fought for Germany.

 

[protectionist]

Your threads are typically pretty boring.

And when you are losing you often say it is boring and will be leaving the thread. Like the confederate you favor, you are just getting your ass kicked.

ha.....sez you. I, and millions of people who agree with me, would not agree with you on that or anything you've said here. And now that you have gone to the point of claiming victory, your appearance here has gone from obsessive irrational, to derailing-troll, to plain laughable. When you start giving yourself credit that you've won a debate, that's one of the key sins that you haven't. lol

 

[WinterBorn]

ha.....sez you. I, and millions of people who agree with me, would not agree with you on that or anything you've said here. And now that you have gone to the point of claiming victory, your appearance here has gone from obsessive irrational, to derailing-troll, to plain laughable. When you start giving yourself credit that you've won a debate, that's one of the key sins that you haven't. lol

 

[protectionist]

There were 300,000 confederate dead in the war. For you to claim they were all just defending themselves is laughable.

The nation was traitorous and the Union fought a war to bring them back. And the entire war was about slavery. For you to want to separate slavery from the Civil War is simply ridiculous.

Wow. Now you're manufacturing things. Another sign that you're slipping badly here. Where dd I ever say that "all" (your word) of the southern fighters were "just defending themselves ? In fact, I clarified by saying 200,000, which would be about 67%.

I also said that it doesnt matter what the number was. The thread topic, which you obviously have zero respect for, is about THOSE ONES WHO DID FIGHT JUST TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, and your assertion that this was just a small number is ridiculous, and based on nothing you've presented here.

This is all information that I have already stated, and corrected you on, and the fact that I have to do it repeatedly. shows that you are repeating yourself, the sure sign of a troll derailer. You have stated your (off topic) opinions, you have made what you think is your case, and you've done it over and over, There is no need for you to say the same things repeatedly. Your points have been made.

If you have something else to add, OK, but if you persist on simply trying to ram your ideas down the throats of me, Mac-7, and anyone else that disagrees with you, you're going to be out of line, and need to find another thread, or start your own odf whatever topic you choose. For here. either talk about THOSE SOUTHERNERS WHO DID FIGHT JUST TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, or get out of the thread.

 

[protectionist]

Real Confederate artifacts like authentic flags can bring six figures. Support is an inaccurate term when it comes to the stars and bars. It isn't about support as much as it's about 1st Amendment freedom of speech. The same left wingers who fought for and won the the "right" to desecrate the American flag back in the 60's and 70's are now in charge and they are determined to turn the Constitution upside down if it gives them a political advantage. The Confederate battle flag only existed for about four years. Sadly, the flag that flew off the stern of slave ships was the Stars and Stripes.

Left loons of today, including those in Congress (especially them) are interested in nothing but political advantage, similar to the ramrod approach we see here regarding the comments of this thread. Just like how gun grabbers insist that reducing guns is the answer to mass shootings (and they won't consider any other thought), here we see that we are being required to accept that those who fought against union armies, were all fighting for slavery, and for the Confederacy, which is absolutely ludicrous.

In contrast to the unsubstantiated, unsourced, unlinked claims made in this thread that southerners mostly fought for slavery, I will post a SOURCED comment that refutes that absurd claim. Confederate soldies fought because they lived in the South, and thy were under attack, not because they carried a briefcase for slavery.
As the historian Shelby Foote described it >>> "You have to understand that the raggedy Confederate soldier who owned no slaves and probably couldn't even read the Constitution let alone understand it. when he was captured by Union soldiers and asked "What are you fighting for ?" replied "I'm fighting because you're down here."

Shelby Foote, "The Art of Fiction" Paris Review, Summer 1999. Interview by Carter Coleman, Donald Faulkner, William Kennedy.

 

[protectionist]

Your thread is about people disrespecting the "confederate flag". Why do people disrespect it? Because of the war to preserve slavery and the racist terrorism that followed.

Despite the media's obsessive claims that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, in 2001 about 30% of blacks in Mississippi voted to keep the 1894 state flag, which displays the Confederate flag in the upper left corner.

What is commonly known as the Confederate flag is the Southern Cross, the battle flag Confederate troops carried into the field. It was not the official flag of the Confederacy, and never flew over any Confederate buildings. It was the flag of the Confederate Army, the soldiers, not the politicians or their politics.

And a flag that might be actually representitive of slavery would be the 33 star American flag of 1859, and earlier flags, all of which represented a country that tolerated slavery.

 

[protectionist]

The confederate soldier were welcomed back and given benefits as war veterans. It was a good thing to do.

But I am not talking about the soldiers. The confederate soldiers who died in the war deserve recognition, despite their goals against the USA.

But honor them with the flag they served under. The "confederate flag" preferred by the OP is not the flag of the Confederate States of America. But it IS the flag of the racial terrorists following the war and going well into the first half of the next century.

The flag they served under" was the flag they carried into battle. It was the Southern Cross battle flag as shown carried by people in the thread, Correct, it was "not the flag of the Confederate States of America." That is a political entity. My point exactly

And it was not that entity that most southerners fought for, which might be why their flag (the Southern Cross) was different from the flag of the Confederate States of America. How more clear could this be ?

 

[protectionist]

But I am not talking about the soldiers. The confederate soldiers who died in the war deserve recognition, despite their goals against the USA.

That's correct, you are not talking about the soldiers. But I AM TALKING ABOUT THE SOLDIERS, and only about them, That's what the OP says and that is what defines the thread. That's why your whole pesence in this thread is off topic, and belongs in another thread, not here.

 

[Correll]

The confederate soldier were welcomed back and given benefits as war veterans. It was a good thing to do.

But I am not talking about the soldiers. The confederate soldiers who died in the war deserve recognition, despite their goals against the USA.

But honor them with the flag they served under. The "confederate flag" preferred by the OP is not the flag of the Confederate States of America. But it IS the flag of the racial terrorists following the war and going well into the first half of the next century.

Kind of makes sense to me that they would distance themselves from the policy issues of the war and focus more on the military side of it.


Seems like a reasonable adjustment considering it was a civil war, after all, and we all have to live together.


And regardless these decisions were made, generations ago. Seems odd to revisit it today.

 

[protectionist]

Kind of makes sense to me that they would distance themselves from the policy issues of the war and focus more on the military side of it.


Seems like a reasonable adjustment considering it was a civil war, after all, and we all have to live together.


And regardless these decisions were made, generations ago. Seems odd to revisit it today.

It's revisited today because mindless, foaming at the mouth liberals are tearing the Confederate flag down from flagpoles all over the south, as well as statues that show this flag. They tore down a statue of a Confederate SOLDIER, here in Tampa.

I say if you want to remove statues of Jefferson Davis, politicians of the Confederacy, go ahead, but leave the soldiers and THEIR flag alone.

 

[there4eyeM]

The flag they served under" was the flag they carried into battle. It was the Southern Cross battle flag as shown carried by people in the thread, Correct, it was "not the flag of the Confederate States of America." That is a political entity. My point exactly

And it was not that entity that most southerners fought for, which might be why their flag (the Southern Cross) was different from the flag of the Confederate States of America. How more clear could this be ?

Citing a source that re-enforces the image of "soldiers" fighting for something they did not understand hardly embellished one's argument in this case. If they said they were fighting because Union Troops were on Union territory, which was the case, then they are admitting guilt. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It most certainly degrades the image of heroism that their witlessness had them fighting for slave owners they didn't know in a slavery economy they didn't understand in violation of a Constitution they couldn't even read. They may have been pitiful and full of bravado, but brave heroes they were not.
"Winterborn" was not declaring victory, only stating the obvious.

 

[protectionist]

Citing a source that re-enforces the image of "soldiers" fighting for something they did not understand hardly embellished one's argument in this case. If they said they were fighting because Union Troops were on Union territory, which was the case, then they are admitting guilt. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It most certainly degrades the image of heroism that their witlessness had them fighting for slave owners they didn't know in a slavery economy they didn't understand in violation of a Constitution they couldn't even read. They may have been pitiful and full of bravado, but brave heroes they were not.
"Winterborn" was not declaring victory, only stating the obvious.

What is obvious is that WB is an obsessed fanatic, and you are just an ignorant FOOL. The source did not present image of "soldiers" fighting for something they did not understand. They FULLY understood what they were fighting for - for DEFENSE of their homes, as the source, Shelby Foote clearly stated.

And unless you are a complete fool, you should know that there is no such thing as "guilt" in self-defense. All you're doing here is going off topic, and blabbering about slavery, which has nothing to do with the OP or the thread.

 

[WinterBorn]

What is obvious is that WB is an obsessed fanatic, and you are just an ignorant FOOL. The source did not present image of "soldiers" fighting for something they did not understand. They FULLY understood what they were fighting for - for DEFENSE of their homes, as the source, Shelby Foote clearly stated.

And unless you are a complete fool, you should know that there is no such thing as "guilt" in self-defense. All you're doing here is going off topic, and blabbering about slavery, which has nothing to do with the OP or the thread.

Denying that slavery is part of the issue is simply ignorant.

And denying that the symbol you favor has been sullied by the actions of evil men doing horrific things under that banner is equally ignorant.

Regardless of what the flag originally meant, and we can agree to disagree on what that was, the evil deeds done by men after the Civil War, and especially during the first half of the 20th century, has changed the meaning of that flag for the majority of Americans. Don't blame me. Blame the men who terrorized people while carrying that flag.

Even religious symbols can have their meaning changed if it is used by men doing terrible things. One example is an ancient religious symbol and later a well known symbol of good luck. But a group of evil men used it as their symbol, while they did unspeakable things. Now that symbol carries the horror and shame decades after the evil men were vanquished.

 

[Quasar44]

Is the Star of David offensive ??

 

[protectionist]

Denying that slavery is part of the issue is simply ignorant.

And denying that the symbol you favor has been sullied by the actions of evil men doing horrific things under that banner is equally ignorant.

Regardless of what the flag originally meant, and we can agree to disagree on what that was, the evil deeds done by men after the Civil War, and especially during the first half of the 20th century, has changed the meaning of that flag for the majority of Americans. Don't blame me. Blame the men who terrorized people while carrying that flag.

Even religious symbols can have their meaning changed if it is used by men doing terrible things. One example is an ancient religious symbol and later a well known symbol of good luck. But a group of evil men used it as their symbol, while they did unspeakable things. Now that symbol carries the horror and shame decades after the evil men were vanquished.

"The issue" ? Your problem is that you insist on bringing "the issue" that you are obsessed with, into this thread, which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with that issue.
Plenty of things about the Civil War could be discussed without one word about slavery, or Jefferson Davis, or the confederacy.
Someone could post an OP in which the topic is food that soldiers ate. Or boots they wore. Or rifles they used. Or music they played. Just because the civil war is being talked about (and the flag of it) that doesn't mean that one is required to talk about slavery.

I'm tired of telling you this over and over, and the only thing left to do, since you wont go away and take your "issue' with you, is to report you for trolling-derailing this thread, into what YOU demand it to be.

I've told you that you have already made your (off topic) point about "slavery" so many numerous times (14 times now), it is sickening, and there certainly is no need for to constantly REPEAT. By repeating over and over as you have been doing is just pure HARASSMENT. I'm tired of repeating myself to you Mr Troll.

 

[Quasar44]

You want to know what is very offensive

I mean very super offensive




The revolting , repulsive rainbow flag

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"The issue" ? Your problem is that you insist on bringing "the issue" that you are obsessed with, into this thread, which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with that issue.
Plenty of things about the Civil War could be discussed without one word about slavery, or Jefferson Davis, or the confederacy.
Someone could post an OP in which the topic is food that soldiers ate. Or boots they wore. Or rifles they used. Or music they played. Just because the civil war is being talked about (and the flag of it) that doesn't mean that one is required to talk about slavery.

I'm tired of telling you this over and over, and the only thing left to do, since you wont go away and take your "issue' with you, is to report you for trolling-derailing this thread, into what YOU demand it to be.

I've told you that you have already made your (off topic) point about "slavery" so many numerous times (14 times now), it is sickening, and there certainly is no need for to constantly REPEAT. By repeating over and over as you have been doing is just pure HARASSMENT. I'm tired of repeating myself to you Mr Troll.

The flag of slavery, rape, treason, and war crimes has a great deal of support among the racist, bigoted, hateful right.

That’s the problem.

 

[there4eyeM]

A man commits a crime and hides in his house. The police come to arrest him and he resists. He is only fighting defensively, so the police should stop?

 

[protectionist]

A man commits a crime and hides in his house. The police come to arrest him and he resists. He is only fighting defensively, so the police should stop?

The fallacy with this analogy is that the hundreds of thousands of southerners who fought defensively did not commit any crime. As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, most of them knew nothing about the Confederacy, or slavery.

 

[protectionist]

The flag of slavery, rape, treason, and war crimes has a great deal of support among the racist, bigoted, hateful right.

That’s the problem.

YOUR "problem" is not knowing what you're talking about. The Confederate flag which is the first 2 words of the title of this thread (the Southern Cross battle flag) had nothing to do with "slavery, rape, treason, and war crimes", except in your brainwashed, damaged mind.

It solely was a flag of the troops in the field, most of whom were simply defending themselves from people who were shooting at them (many were civilians). It had no connection to the Confederate govt. nor did it fly over any Confederate buildings.

That flag representing soldiers and civilians both who died defending themselves and their towns, is recognized as such mostly by the "right", which says something not too flattering about the ignorant, buffoon left.