Transgenderism questions

[Couchpotato]

These are actual questions and is not intended to be a flame session.

If we assume that sex and gender are different things. Sex being the biological difference between men and women and gender being the social construct.

How can gender be both a social construct and something that is inherent in an individual? A social construct is something we as a society have just made up, so you cant be born with it. And if the terms women and men are just what I feel like in the moment from a gender perspective, then those words don't really have a meaning. In other words, if we cant put a definition on the words man and woman from a gender perspective because it's up to individuals to say then those words have no real meaning. Man cant mean one thing to person a something different to person b, and something again different to person c. That runs contrary to what a word having a meaning is. The reason words have meanings is so we can actually communicate. If the word cat meant something different to everyone it would a rather useless word. Given that man and woman have no meaning from a gender perspective can someone really be transgendered? Arent you just a dude (sex) who likes to wear make up and dresses?

 

[toobfreak]

If we assume that sex and gender are different things.

Why would you want to assume that? A person's sex and gender are synonymous and interchangeable. You can only be male or female. Anything else comes just from people's imagination.

 

[Couchpotato]

Why would you want to assume that? A person's sex and gender are synonymous and interchangeable. You can only be male or female. Anything else comes just from people's imagination.

That’s the argument a transgendered person would make isn’t it?

 

[rightwinger]

These are actual questions and is not intended to be a flame session.

If we assume that sex and gender are different things. Sex being the biological difference between men and women and gender being the social construct.

How can gender be both a social construct and something that is inherent in an individual? A social construct is something we as a society have just made up, so you cant be born with it. And if the terms women and men are just what I feel like in the moment from a gender perspective, then those words don't really have a meaning. In other words, if we cant put a definition on the words man and woman from a gender perspective because it's up to individuals to say then those words have no real meaning. Man cant mean one thing to person a something different to person b, and something again different to person c. That runs contrary to what a word having a meaning is. The reason words have meanings is so we can actually communicate. If the word cat meant something different to everyone it would a rather useless word. Given that man and woman have no meaning from a gender perspective can someone really be transgendered? Arent you just a dude (sex) who likes to wear make up and dresses?

There is biological sex that you are born with
Then there is your mental sexuality that controls your emotions

They don’t always match to the extent to satisfy conservatives

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Why would you want to assume that? A person's sex and gender are synonymous and interchangeable. You can only be male or female. Anything else comes just from people's imagination.

Apparently you have not read much on the subject

 

[Couchpotato]

There is biological sex that you are born with
Then there is your mental sexuality that controls your emotions

They don’t always match to the extent to satisfy conservatives

Isnt that gay vs straight?

 

[Couchpotato]

Why would you want to assume that? A person's sex and gender are synonymous and interchangeable. You can only be male or female. Anything else comes just from people's imagination.

Your biological sex is what it is. There's no way to change that. There's no surgery or drugs to change your DNA.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

These are actual questions and is not intended to be a flame session.

If we assume that sex and gender are different things. Sex being the biological difference between men and women and gender being the social construct.

How can gender be both a social construct and something that is inherent in an individual? A social construct is something we as a society have just made up, so you cant be born with it. And if the terms women and men are just what I feel like in the moment from a gender perspective, then those words don't really have a meaning. In other words, if we cant put a definition on the words man and woman from a gender perspective because it's up to individuals to say then those words have no real meaning. Man cant mean one thing to person a something different to person b, and something again different to person c. That runs contrary to what a word having a meaning is. The reason words have meanings is so we can actually communicate. If the word cat meant something different to everyone it would a rather useless word. Given that man and woman have no meaning from a gender perspective can someone really be transgendered? Arent you just a dude (sex) who likes to wear make up and dresses?

While you are correct in saying that sex and gender are different, they are not entirely unrelated. Gender, while partially a social construct, flows from biological sex, but biological sex is more complicated than most people realize, and many are threatened by that notion.

However, in order to understand the transgender phenomenon, you have to let go of the idea that everyone is clearly male or female biologically. While primary sex characteristics tell on story, there may be biological/ genetic considerations that do not match outward appearances.

For that reason, it is thought that many trans people are not striving to change their gender. Rather they seek to be the gender that they truly are on that deeper biological level. This also helps to explain gender fluid and gender non conforming people. They understand the disconnect between their assigned gender, and their perceived gender, as do trans people, but they choose not to make a choice. That is their right.

So the terms "man" and woman most certainly do have meaning. It is about how one sees themselves and how other see them and the choice one makes is arbitrary and frivolous.

I will add that gender is far less important today, given the almost total merger of gender roles where virtually nothing is off limits to women or men. For that reason, among others, I find it absolutely mind boggling that so many people are on the verge of a psychotic breakdown of trans people. I do not understand why people like https://www.usmessageboard.com/members/toobfreak.63059/ are so threatened by the fact that gender is not the strict binary arrangement that they were told that it was. Society changes and evolves. Science changes and evolves. But apparently certain individuals do not change and evovle

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Your biological sex is what it is. There's no way to change that. There's no surgery or drugs to change your DNA.

No one is claiming that you can change your DNA, but biological sex is more complicated than that

 

[Couchpotato]

No one is claiming that you can change your DNA, but biological sex is more complicated than that

It really isnt though for 99.99% of people is it? You're either XX or XY and you either have a vagina or a dick and set of balls. Just because Im XY and like pink or playing with dolls doesnt mean Im actually a girl deep down inside. Why cant I just be a guy who likes some things that we traditionally associate girls liking? There's nothing I can do to change what my chromosomes say I am. That's just a biological reality that no one can change.

I know there are exceptions to everything, but the exceptions dont make the rule. Even Klinefelter's Syndrome one of the most common is very rare statistically and many men who have the syndrome show no signs and dont even know they have it.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Isnt that gay vs straight?

It really isnt though for 99.99% of people is it? You're either XX or XY and you either have a vagina or a dick and set of balls. Just because Im XY and like pink or playing with dolls doesnt mean Im actually a girl deep down inside. Why cant I just be a guy who likes some things that we traditionally associate girls liking? There's nothing I can do to change what my chromosomes say I am. That's just a biological reality that no one can change.

I know there are exceptions to everything, but the exceptions dont make the rule. Even Klinefelter's Syndrome one of the most common is very rare statistically and many men who have the syndrome show no signs and dont even know they have it.

And all of that has what, exactly to do with my response to your op? You can be a guy who likes doing "girl things" You can still be a guy. But I also said that gender roles ( and expectations) are not so relevant anymore. It is not just about chromosomes

But if you feel that your assigned gender is in conflict with how you feel about yourself, you should be able to express that openly. Is there a problem with that?

 

[martybegan]

There is biological sex that you are born with
Then there is your mental sexuality that controls your emotions

They don’t always match to the extent to satisfy conservatives

And when they don't match is a mental disorder or a fetish, not a protected class.

 

[martybegan]

While you are correct in saying that sex and gender are different, they are not entirely unrelated. Gender, while partially a social construct, flows from biological sex, but biological sex is more complicated than most people realize, and many are threatened by that notion.

However, in order to understand the transgender phenomenon, you have to let go of the idea that everyone is clearly male or female biologically. While primary sex characteristics tell on story, there may be biological/ genetic considerations that do not match outward appearances.

For that reason, it is thought that many trans people are not striving to change their gender. Rather they seek to be the gender that they truly are on that deeper biological level. This also helps to explain gender fluid and gender non conforming people. They understand the disconnect between their assigned gender, and their perceived gender, as do trans people, but they choose not to make a choice. That is their right.

So the terms "man" and woman most certainly do have meaning. It is about how one sees themselves and how other see them and the choice one makes is arbitrary and frivolous.

I will add that gender is far less important today, given the almost total merger of gender roles where virtually nothing is off limits to women or men. For that reason, among others, I find it absolutely mind boggling that so many people are on the verge of a psychotic breakdown of trans people. I do not understand why people like https://www.usmessageboard.com/members/toobfreak.63059/ are so threatened by the fact that gender is not the strict binary arrangement that they were told that it was. Society changes and evolves. Science changes and evolves. But apparently certain individuals do not change and evovle

The problem comes when you try to force others to accept your delusion OR ELSE.

 

[martybegan]

No one is claiming that you can change your DNA, but biological sex is more complicated than that

No, you are claiming just saying you are a woman and still have a penis makes you a woman if you feel like it, and you better call that person a woman OR ELSE.

 

[rightwinger]

And when they don't match is a mental disorder or a fetish, not a protected class.

Call it what you wish

They still have a right to be protected against official abuse, harassment or sanction

 

[whitehall]

The point is that you don't get a choice in the genetic world and it's dishonest on several levels to try to bully people into thinking that your personal choice of gender or species is valid.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The problem comes when you try to force others to accept your delusion OR ELSE.

No one gives a rats ass what you accept. Just stay out of the way

 

[martybegan]

Call it what you wish

They still have a right to be protected against official abuse, harassment or sanction

They do not have the right to ruin my life due to their delusion, nor that of female athletes.

What they want is forced acceptance, not given tolerance.

 

[martybegan]

No one gives a rats ass what you accept. Just stay out of the way

That's basically the same thing, you denialist cuck.

"Shut up" is forced acceptance, not tolerance.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

No, you are claiming just saying you are a woman and still have a penis makes you a woman if you feel like it, and you better call that person a woman OR ELSE.

You need to chill out and read up on the subject before you continue to bloviate and show your ignorance