Condemning Fascism

[EvMetro]

The same reason liberals who supposedly oppose communism support communist goals.

It's all about the spin, baby.

Conspicuous absence of your reply to the opening post. I'm not at all surprised.

 

[dblack]

I support people from different races being able to be married, and supposedly that makes me communist.

I'm thinking stuff more like this - you support any of these goals?

• Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
• A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
• Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
• Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
• Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
• Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
• Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
• Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
• Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
• Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

 

[Pete7469]

I condemn all authoritarian government that undermines the free market for political causes, restricts free people from carrying weapons, and seeks to control the behavior of people in matters that otherwise cause no harm to anyone else.

 

[colfax_m]

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form

Yes. I support this. Don’t you?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There's usually a glorious leader, two official classes of people, one party, one official church, everything runs on bribes, nationalism is compulsory, only one offical version of reality, intellectuals are suspect, lots of scapegoating, lots of forced labor, militarized police, check points, borders meant to keep people in and military parades.

Which pretty much sounds like conservatives in the United States – Trump supporters in particular.

Add to that nativism, an unwarranted fear of, and opposition to, immigrants and immigration, that immigrants are gong to ‘take over’ the country – indeed, the right’s white grievance politics and replacement theory is fundamentally fascist.

 

[boedicca]

The OP makes the mistake of equating Fascism with Conservatism. This is false.

Fascism is on the same end of the totalitarian vs. liberty spectrum as Communism, Socialism, Dictatorship and all the other "isms" and "archies" in which individuals are slaves, serfs and de facto owned by the state.

 

[2aguy]

This is sister thread to one started a bit ago, asking liberals to condemn communism. HEre I will take that thread's op, and just replace "liberals"

with the word "conservatives" and "communism" with "fascism". I am not specifying "nazism" because the other thread was a general question

and I want to give conservatives, just as much chance to get into the details of definitions as liberals have.


Here is the other op, adjusted.





Naturally, on a political discussion site, there is a lot of discussion about fascism. The pattern that I see over and over is condemnation of fascism

from lefties, and support and defense of fascism from righties. Why don't we see lefties condemning fascism? Even in this very thread, we will

see fascism trying to protect fascism with attempts to derail the thread instead of condemning fascism. Why don't fascism condemn it?

Conservatives do not support any form of socialism....either national socialism ( fascism) or international socialism (communism).

Socialism in either form is evil...and shouldn't be defended by rational people.

 

[dblack]

Yes. I support this. Don’t you?

Nope. Because of the part you left out. The end game - "Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

But that's not the point. Those are actual stated goals from the Communist Manifesto. Communism has nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with a ubiquitous state. I'm essentially agreeing with you - the reasons Trumpsters call people "communist" have nothing to do with reality. It's just a pejorative, a shorthand for "not one of us". They use "nazi" and "fascist" in the same way.

 

[Oddball]

First, your premise is crap. The Righties do not support and defend fascism, which essentially is gov't control of the economy and the country. I.E., big gov't and an enormous amount of red tape, regs, and rules that hamstrings private business, and that is the goal of the Left, not the Right. Which party wants to spend more money than the other? The Democrats, EVERY TIME. The Democrats want to control damn near everything from healthcare to education, to energy (climate change) to housing and on and on.

The problem may be that the Left and the Right have a different definition or interpretation of what fascism is. IMHO, it's basically a totalitarian form of gov't where the citizen's rights are subservient to and dictated by the state. It's fair to say that Trump has some fascist tendencies, but it's also fair to say that the Right did not allow him to enact those tendencies, much to his dismay. He wanted to abolish the filibuster so he could get his policies passed through Congress, true? Just like the Far Left wants to do today. And there was talk back when Obama was president of doing the same thing then. All of which to me is a step towards fascism from both the Left and the right when they are in power, trying to accumulate and cement their political power. When I see the Democrats howling about the filibuster and packing the courts and admitting Puerto Rico and DC as new states and I see them trying to pass legislation to control state elections, all of that is fascist in nature that I do not see the Right wanting or doing.

The Righties do not support and defend fascism, which essentially is gov't control of the economy and the country.

Many of them actually do, with their support of bailouts, corproprate welfare, etcetera.....What they profess from their mouths doesn't match up at all with their actions.

 

[surada]

I will go first. As a rightie.


I condemn fascism. I condemn it all. I know that NAZISM, which was the worst example of fascism, gives other fascists a bad name and that it might be unfair of me to condemn them all,


BUT, considering the track record, I don't care.

Pretty much everyone condemns Fascism and Nazism.. Is it really an issue? Why are we tilting at windmills and accusing other Americans?

 

[2aguy]

The OP makes the mistake of equating Fascism with Conservatism. This is false.

Fascism is on the same end of the totalitarian vs. liberty spectrum as Communism, Socialism, Dictatorship and all the other "isms" and "archies" in which individuals are slaves, serfs and de facto owned by the state.

American conservatives today are the exact opposite of fascists.....fascism is simply one type of socialism..the government control of the means of production.....

 

[colfax_m]

Nope. Because of the part you left out. The end game - "Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

But that's not the point. Those are actual stated goals from the Communist Manifesto. Communism has nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with a ubiquitous state. I'm essentially agreeing with you - the reasons Trumpsters call people "communist" have nothing to do with reality. It's just a pejorative, a shorthand for "not one of us". They use "nazi" and "fascist" in the same way.

If the communists want public education, why should I oppose that just because they said it?

I have no idea what education and industry means. Is that like trade school?

 

[2aguy]

The Righties do not support and defend fascism, which essentially is gov't control of the economy and the country.

Many of them actually do, with their support of bailouts, corproprate welfare, etcetera.....What they profess from their mouths doesn't match up at all with their actions.

No...they don't...cutting taxes is what you guys call bail outs.....

 

[surada]

I support people from different races being able to be married, and supposedly that makes me communist.

Right.. Supporting civil rights is a sure sign you're a Communist.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Condemning Fascism

Liberals have condemned fascism since the beginning of the last Century; and liberals continue to oppose and condemn fascism today – as it manifests in Europe, South America, and the United States.

In fact, liberals and progressives are among the first victims of fascist regimes as they pose the greatest threat to fascist despots and dictators.

 

[occupied]

Which pretty much sounds like conservatives in the United States – Trump supporters in particular.

Add to that nativism, an unwarranted fear of, and opposition to, immigrants and immigration, that immigrants are gong to ‘take over’ the country – indeed, the right’s white grievance politics and replacement theory is fundamentally fascist.

I covered that under scapegoating.

 

[Oddball]

Nope. Because of the part you left out. The end game - "Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

But that's not the point. Those are actual stated goals from the Communist manifesto. Communism has nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with a ubiquitous state. I'm essentially agreeing with you - the reasons Trumpsters call people "communist" have nothing to do with reality. It's just a pejorative, a shorthand for "not one of us". They use "nazi" and "fascist" in the same way.

Communism has nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with a ubiquitous state.

Statutory marriage is an integral part of the ubiquitous State....In numerous Murican states, it's illegal for a church official to consecrate a marriage without a license (i.e permission) from The State.

Don't try 'splaining this to the homos, though....They think that their rights come from pieces of paper issued by bureaucrats.

 

[Oddball]

Liberals have condemned fascism since the beginning of the last Century; and liberals continue to oppose and condemn fascism today – as it manifests in Europe, South America, and the United States.

In fact, liberals and progressives are among the first victims of fascist regimes as they pose the greatest threat to fascist despots and dictators.

"Delusional" is a monument to understatement.

 

[john doe 101]

This is sister thread to one started a bit ago, asking liberals to condemn communism. HEre I will take that thread's op, and just replace "liberals"

with the word "conservatives" and "communism" with "fascism". I am not specifying "nazism" because the other thread was a general question

and I want to give conservatives, just as much chance to get into the details of definitions as liberals have.


Here is the other op, adjusted.





Naturally, on a political discussion site, there is a lot of discussion about fascism. The pattern that I see over and over is condemnation of fascism

from lefties, and support and defense of fascism from righties. Why don't we see lefties condemning fascism? Even in this very thread, we will

see fascism trying to protect fascism with attempts to derail the thread instead of condemning fascism. Why don't fascism condemn it?

Dems are not communist. Repubs are not facists. Just stop with this shit.

 

[Oddball]

No...they don't...cutting taxes is what you guys call bail outs.....

I don't call them bailouts....I call them slightly lighter chains of servitude.