Communist rule in US "inevitable"

[editec]

And, of course, JFK and LBJ led us into the vietnam war because of this type thinking. 59,000 americans died.

I am not at all so sure you are right about JFK.

After the Bay of Pigs his confidence in US INTEL was pretty feeble.

I think he was planning on pulling back on support for S Viet Nam.

Many Americans suspect that was one of the reasons he was killed.

I am one of those Americans, but I also think there were other factors that lead to the decision to have him assassinated.

 

[Saigon]

Right, but the idea of communism still lingers in spite of the fact it's a miserable failure. There are rabid leftists all over the world. If you think they've given up on their devotion to Marxism you've got your head in the sand. If you think they've given up on their contempt for the wealthy, and this country in general you're delusional.

In effect, there are no communists anymore.

Other than 25 angry old men who stagger out to wave flags on May 1, it is gone, history and you can forget it.

Yes, of course there is still a left wing in every major western country, but most left wing parties these days back small businesses and free enterprise and are in no way related to the communist dinosaurs.

Forget 'marxism'. You don't have to like Social Democrats, but you have no more reason to fear a Tony Blair, a Bill Clinton or a Bob Hawke than the left wing has reason to fear a new Hitler.

 

[there4eyeM]

"We would probably all be speaking Russian now if it wasn't for McCarthy."

Poll question:
this is a) the funniest post of the day b) the most absurd post of the day

Personally, I'm torn between the two.

 

[there4eyeM]

The American eagle cannot fly with just one wing.

 

[Saigon]

Frank -

NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941

Take out the ones that onle existed in McCathy's head, and there were probably 2 - both of whom were cleaners.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank -

NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941

Take out the ones that onle existed in McCathy's head, and there were probably 2 - both of whom were cleaners.

That's from the Soviets themselves, Tool

 

[Saigon]

Simple Frank -

Do you believe everything that appears in Pravda, or only the pieces that fit your feverish nightmares?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Simple Frank -

Do you believe everything that appears in Pravda, or only the pieces that fit your feverish nightmares?

Pravda?

Wow.

You think Venona is from some article in Pravda? It's hard to argue with someone so totally ignorant of the basic facts.

 

[Saigon]

Frank -

I think that you would believe almost anything at all that backed your jaundiced view of history. Or, at least, you would pretend to believe it.

Why not present evidence from a reliable source?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Frank believes the evidence of his own world view, made straight from his delusions.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank -

I think that you would believe almost anything at all that backed your jaundiced view of history. Or, at least, you would pretend to believe it.

Why not present evidence from a reliable source?

Jesus ******* Christ. Are you really THAT ignorant?

You never heard of Venona?

 

[Saigon]

Frank -

I think that you would believe almost anything at all that backed your jaundiced view of history. Or, at least, you would pretend to believe it.

Why not present evidence from a reliable source?

Jesus ******* Christ. Are you really THAT ignorant?

You never heard of Venona?

This is what your link shows us:

404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"The opening of the KGB archives and the release of the VENONA intercepts (decoded Soviet KGB and GRU traffic) proved that in the 1950's Senator Joseph McCarthy was absolutely right about the extensive Soviet penetration of the U.S. government in all the most sensitive sections and its danger to America. According to the KGB archives, the NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941 and the Soviet military GRU probably had a like number. He was proved right that the Communist Party, U.S.A., was an arm of the Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Soviet Union considered the U.S. as their "main enemy"."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Venona project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From your Informational Bible, Wikipedia

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one questions that soviet agents had penetrated the government agencies of the West, or that the West had their agents in the USSR.

The falsehoods for the McCarthyites arise when they claim American senior leaders were active or willing dupes, and when they defend McCarthyism, and McCarthy rehabilitation.

The nice thing to know is that American education (even the latest standards in the Texas public board of education) still in high school and college tell the true evil of Tail Gunner Joe.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank -

I think that you would believe almost anything at all that backed your jaundiced view of history. Or, at least, you would pretend to believe it.

Why not present evidence from a reliable source?

Jesus ******* Christ. Are you really THAT ignorant?

You never heard of Venona?

This is what your link shows us:

404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

they pulled the link...odd

"But the year 1995 was an epochal one for the study of American Communism. For in that year, thanks to the insistence of the late Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York, who had long specialized in intelligence matters, some 2,900 documents collectively known as "the Venona papers" (a deliberately meaningless code phrase) were de-classified and published. These were radio messages from the top KGB agents in Washington and New York to their superiors in Moscow from approximately 1943 to 1948. They had been recorded at the time by the U.S. Army Signal Corps, but they were, of course, in code, and their decoding was an immensely arduous job carried out by a number of heroic government cryptanalysts over the period from 1945 to 1980.

A second new source of information on the American Communist Party was the archives in Moscow of the defunct Soviet Union, which began to be partially accessible to American investigators in the early 1990s, during the Yeltsin years.

The Venona papers, together with these archives, made it absolutely clear that the American Communist Party was from its beginning the willing agent of Soviet intelligence, obedient to its orders, financed by its contributions, and serving not only as a propaganda organ for Soviet policies but as a generous source for the recruitment of agents who would thereupon influence American policy and gladly commit espionage as well. It is now plain that by 1945 every important branch of the American government, from the White House itself to the State Department, the Defense Department, the Justice Department, the Treasury Department, the Office of Strategic Services (predecessor to the CIA), and the Office of War Information, to name only a few, was infested with Communists busily doing the work of the Soviet Union."

The Claremont Institute - A Closer Look Under The Bed

Read, then comment

 

[Saigon]

"The opening of the KGB archives and the release of the VENONA intercepts (decoded Soviet KGB and GRU traffic) proved that in the 1950's Senator Joseph McCarthy was absolutely right about the extensive Soviet penetration of the U.S. government in all the most sensitive sections and its danger to America. According to the KGB archives, the NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941 and the Soviet military GRU probably had a like number. He was proved right that the Communist Party, U.S.A., was an arm of the Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Soviet Union considered the U.S. as their "main enemy"."

Strangely enough - your OWN source seems to disagree with what you are "quoting" from it:

Controversy arose in 2009 over the Texas State Board of Education's revision of their high school history class curricula to suggest Venona shows Senator Joseph McCarthy to have been justified in his zeal in exposing those who he believed to be Soviet spies or communist sympathizers. Critics pointed out that most of the people and organizations identified by McCarthy were not mentioned in the Venona content, and the sources for his accusations are largely still unknown.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No one questions that soviet agents had penetrated the government agencies of the West, or that the West had their agents in the USSR.

The falsehoods for the McCarthyites arise when they claim American senior leaders were active or willing dupes, and when they defend McCarthyism, and McCarthy rehabilitation.

The nice thing to know is that American education (even the latest standards in the Texas public board of education) still in high school and college tell the true evil of Tail Gunner Joe.

^ A geniune dupe still defending Communism

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"The opening of the KGB archives and the release of the VENONA intercepts (decoded Soviet KGB and GRU traffic) proved that in the 1950's Senator Joseph McCarthy was absolutely right about the extensive Soviet penetration of the U.S. government in all the most sensitive sections and its danger to America. According to the KGB archives, the NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941 and the Soviet military GRU probably had a like number. He was proved right that the Communist Party, U.S.A., was an arm of the Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Soviet Union considered the U.S. as their "main enemy"."

Strangely enough - your OWN source seems to disagree with what you are "quoting" from it:

Controversy arose in 2009 over the Texas State Board of Education's revision of their high school history class curricula to suggest Venona shows Senator Joseph McCarthy to have been justified in his zeal in exposing those who he believed to be Soviet spies or communist sympathizers. Critics pointed out that most of the people and organizations identified by McCarthy were not mentioned in the Venona content, and the sources for his accusations are largely still unknown.

The FBI likely gave McCarthy his List, there's no reason why it should match perfectly with Venona

 

[Saigon]

No one questions that soviet agents had penetrated the government agencies of the West, or that the West had their agents in the USSR.

The falsehoods for the McCarthyites arise when they claim American senior leaders were active or willing dupes, and when they defend McCarthyism, and McCarthy rehabilitation.

The nice thing to know is that American education (even the latest standards in the Texas public board of education) still in high school and college tell the true evil of Tail Gunner Joe.

Exactly that - it's hardly a revelation that the American Communist Party were in contact with Mosow, nor that Moscow was intent on placing spies within high political positions in the US - but this does nothing at all to justify McCathy's witchhunts and attacks against completely innocent people.