Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[saveliberty]

By the time you get enough roof space to support your energy needs, you have a 4,000 square foot house in California.

At $150/square foot that is a $600,000 house plus your $20,000 solar system. Ten percent down makes it unaffordable for most folks to build right there. Thirty year mortgage is about $2,750 per month plus insurance and taxes on top of that.

 

[bripat9643]

By the time you get enough roof space to support your energy needs, you have a 4,000 square foot house in California.

At $150/square foot that is a $600,000 house plus your $20,000 solar system. Ten percent down makes it unaffordable for most folks to build right there. Thirty year mortgage is about $2,750 per month plus insurance and taxes on top of that.

More like $3500 per month.

 

[Markle]

I think it's smart governing.

Solar panels pay for themselfs in cheaper electrical bills and if you roll up-front cost into mortgage you'll probably not be paying more than for the same house without solar.

8kW (kilowatt) solar systems typically sell in the US (as at March 2017) for between $2.95 and $3.50 per watt meaning a cost of between $23,600 and $28,000 before the 30% solar tax credit.

After the 30% solar tax credit this equates to a range of $16,520 to $19,600.

However, the price varies by state and also depending on whether the system is purchased for cash or whether the system is financed. Most solar financing offers have an origination fee of 10-12% and so systems that are financed are usually 10-15% more expensive.

8kW solar power system | How much they cost, produce and roofspace requirements

SOMEONE, ME, as in taxpayer not receiving any benefit, are paying that 30%. WHY?

It's worse than that.

What happens when people start using less of a product? The product becomes more expensive to recoup the losses of the people no longer buying the product.

So your tax dollars are paying for people to have these panels. More and more people start getting them and getting off the grid. Besides what your taxes are paying for the panels, you are also paying increase costs for your on grid electricity.

Very true. Those power plants have to keep up with the energy requirements for the entire community regardless of how many people are off the grid. That needs to be maintained due to extended periods of darkness, storms, smoke from fires.

 

[saveliberty]

By the time you get enough roof space to support your energy needs, you have a 4,000 square foot house in California.

At $150/square foot that is a $600,000 house plus your $20,000 solar system. Ten percent down makes it unaffordable for most folks to build right there. Thirty year mortgage is about $2,750 per month plus insurance and taxes on top of that.

More like $3500 per month.

...and housing should be about 25% of your income, so you need a $140,000 job...2,000 working hours a year means $70 per hour...

 

[AntonToo]

$114 per month divided by 911 kilowatts is about 11 cents, you expect people to pay $2.50 to 3.50 per kilowatt....

lol, you got your ratesmixed up and are comparing kW/month to kW/day

$3/30 = 10 cents

I was kind and rounded up. Read the prior citations and see where they say it costs $2.50 to $3.50 to produce a solar kilowatt. Then consider the 8 kilowatt system can't even supply your daily needs.

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think it's smart governing.

Solar panels pay for themselfs in cheaper electrical bills and if you roll up-front cost into mortgage you'll probably not be paying more than for the same house without solar.

8kW (kilowatt) solar systems typically sell in the US (as at March 2017) for between $2.95 and $3.50 per watt meaning a cost of between $23,600 and $28,000 before the 30% solar tax credit.

After the 30% solar tax credit this equates to a range of $16,520 to $19,600.

However, the price varies by state and also depending on whether the system is purchased for cash or whether the system is financed. Most solar financing offers have an origination fee of 10-12% and so systems that are financed are usually 10-15% more expensive.

8kW solar power system | How much they cost, produce and roofspace requirements

SOMEONE, ME, as in taxpayer not receiving any benefit, are paying that 30%. WHY?

It's worse than that.

What happens when people start using less of a product? The product becomes more expensive to recoup the losses of the people no longer buying the product.

So your tax dollars are paying for people to have these panels. More and more people start getting them and getting off the grid. Besides what your taxes are paying for the panels, you are also paying increase costs for your on grid electricity.

Very true. Those power plants have to keep up with the energy requirements for the entire community regardless of how many people are off the grid. That needs to be maintained due to extended periods of darkness, storms, smoke from fires.

We recently experienced the same thing with our water. The rates were going through the roof. A spokesman for the water department went on the air to explain the problem.

Depopulation was causing the water department to sell and produce much less water, so to recoup those losses, they had to raise the price. In other words, selling less water meant that they were making remaining customers pay for the loss. It works that way with any necessary commodity.

 

[Flopper]

In your opinion, There is no guarantee. No one should be forced into horse shit...

Solar output is very stable on annual basis.

Not up here in the northern plain states, Renewables are costly, inefficient and unreliable up here in the northern plains states.
Crazy Cali can do what they want I guess, just don’t expect other states too follow suit.

Well of course cost-benefit analisys is going to be different depending on climate.

I got solar here in New York, with Fed and State incentives it was an offer I coudn't refuse.

Off the coast of Mass there is constant wind . Windmills make more sense here.

A lot of capped garbage dumps have been turned into solar farms .

We get more wind here than anybody, and they still haven't built any huge windmills for public electric power. They've been talking about it for years, but no action. It's simply not cost effective.

There are lot of factors other than wind needed to make a wind farm pay. The cost of electricity, zoning regulations, and the system size required by the utility company for connection are a few.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

$114 per month divided by 911 kilowatts is about 11 cents, you expect people to pay $2.50 to 3.50 per kilowatt....

lol, you got your ratesmixed up and are comparing kW/month to kW/day

$3/30 = 10 cents

I was kind and rounded up. Read the prior citations and see where they say it costs $2.50 to $3.50 to produce a solar kilowatt. Then consider the 8 kilowatt system can't even supply your daily needs.

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

Maybe I'm not following you correctly here, but are you saying that your main system actually only cost you $6,200?

 

[AntonToo]

lol, you got your ratesmixed up and are comparing kW/month to kW/day

$3/30 = 10 cents

I was kind and rounded up. Read the prior citations and see where they say it costs $2.50 to $3.50 to produce a solar kilowatt. Then consider the 8 kilowatt system can't even supply your daily needs.

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

Maybe I'm not following you correctly here, but are you saying that your main system actually only cost you $6,200?

Yes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Solar output is very stable on annual basis.

Not up here in the northern plain states, Renewables are costly, inefficient and unreliable up here in the northern plains states.
Crazy Cali can do what they want I guess, just don’t expect other states too follow suit.

Well of course cost-benefit analisys is going to be different depending on climate.

I got solar here in New York, with Fed and State incentives it was an offer I coudn't refuse.

Off the coast of Mass there is constant wind . Windmills make more sense here.

A lot of capped garbage dumps have been turned into solar farms .

We get more wind here than anybody, and they still haven't built any huge windmills for public electric power. They've been talking about it for years, but no action. It's simply not cost effective.

There are lot of factors other than wind needed to make a wind farm pay. The cost of electricity, zoning regulations, and the system size required by the utility company for connection are a few.

What they were talking about was not actually a wind farm. Perhaps just a few windmills. They wanted to locate them in Lake Erie a few miles from shore.

 

[saveliberty]

$114 per month divided by 911 kilowatts is about 11 cents, you expect people to pay $2.50 to 3.50 per kilowatt....

lol, you got your ratesmixed up and are comparing kW/month to kW/day

$3/30 = 10 cents

I was kind and rounded up. Read the prior citations and see where they say it costs $2.50 to $3.50 to produce a solar kilowatt. Then consider the 8 kilowatt system can't even supply your daily needs.

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

...so your 8.83 kW system produces 29.1kW per day, interesting. You also use less than the average household at 885kW per month.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I was kind and rounded up. Read the prior citations and see where they say it costs $2.50 to $3.50 to produce a solar kilowatt. Then consider the 8 kilowatt system can't even supply your daily needs.

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

Maybe I'm not following you correctly here, but are you saying that your main system actually only cost you $6,200?

Yes.

Okay, wel then it gets back down to how much other taxpayers are paying for your system. Taxpayers are paying three and a half times more for your electrical system than you are, so you are saving the money and the rest of us are paying for your savings.

I just don't care for that.

 

[idb]

No more free choice. They decide, you kneel.

Fortune: California to Require Solar Panels for All New Homes

Same slippery slope when they required cars to have seat belts.

And sewage connections in new houses...

 

[Flopper]

No more free choice. They decide, you kneel.

Fortune: California to Require Solar Panels for All New Homes

Government tell you how much insulation you must have, the number of electric outlets, type of pipes and wiring you must use, depth of a cellar, the height of a roof, the size of the house on a lot, etc.... State housing laws and local building codes are about what is best for the community, not the owner. Owners change but the buildings remains.

Why should the community dictate what kind of house you live in? For example, those tiny houses that are all the rage violate most zoning laws.

I own a house in a community where, you can't have a house with less than 2,000 sq. ft. You can't build a wall higher than 4 feet. You can't have an out building. You can't have a shingle roof and you can't add a second floor if it blocks the view of any owner. It's all about the community.

Those are called CDD's, and the rules are imposed by the developer, not the government.

They are enforceable by developer or the association. My experience has been that as such communities age, there are violations that the developer or homeowner association ignores. Then the rules become legally unenforceable.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Seat belt laws was a payback to insurance companies for their campaign contributions.

I meant to get that.

 

[AntonToo]

lol, you got your ratesmixed up and are comparing kW/month to kW/day

$3/30 = 10 cents

I was kind and rounded up. Read the prior citations and see where they say it costs $2.50 to $3.50 to produce a solar kilowatt. Then consider the 8 kilowatt system can't even supply your daily needs.

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

...so your 8.83 kW system produces 29.1kW per day, interesting. You also use less than the average household at 885kW per month.

So far power production is where it should be over first month.

As far as using less than average....that's probably due to LED everything...except microwave and washer/dryer. Gas for heat/stove.

 

[Markle]

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great you are willing to be somewhat energy neutral and environmentally friendly. It just crosses lines when you mandate others to do the same, particularly when the economics are so bad.

Exactly. This mandate ups the cost of a home. That means if you wanted to build a 300K home, you can now only build a 275K home with solar panels.

Keep in mind, the subject state is California, it is impossible to build a new home for half a million dollars much less $300,000.

 

[bripat9643]

I think it's smart governing.

Solar panels pay for themselfs in cheaper electrical bills and if you roll up-front cost into mortgage you'll probably not be paying more than for the same house without solar.

8kW (kilowatt) solar systems typically sell in the US (as at March 2017) for between $2.95 and $3.50 per watt meaning a cost of between $23,600 and $28,000 before the 30% solar tax credit.

After the 30% solar tax credit this equates to a range of $16,520 to $19,600.

However, the price varies by state and also depending on whether the system is purchased for cash or whether the system is financed. Most solar financing offers have an origination fee of 10-12% and so systems that are financed are usually 10-15% more expensive.

8kW solar power system | How much they cost, produce and roofspace requirements

SOMEONE, ME, as in taxpayer not receiving any benefit, are paying that 30%. WHY?

It's worse than that.

What happens when people start using less of a product? The product becomes more expensive to recoup the losses of the people no longer buying the product.

So your tax dollars are paying for people to have these panels. More and more people start getting them and getting off the grid. Besides what your taxes are paying for the panels, you are also paying increase costs for your on grid electricity.

Very true. Those power plants have to keep up with the energy requirements for the entire community regardless of how many people are off the grid. That needs to be maintained due to extended periods of darkness, storms, smoke from fires.

We recently experienced the same thing with our water. The rates were going through the roof. A spokesman for the water department went on the air to explain the problem.

Depopulation was causing the water department to sell and produce much less water, so to recoup those losses, they had to raise the price. In other words, selling less water meant that they were making remaining customers pay for the loss. It works that way with any necessary commodity.

It works that way only with government. Normally lower demand means prices decrease.

 

[bripat9643]

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great you are willing to be somewhat energy neutral and environmentally friendly. It just crosses lines when you mandate others to do the same, particularly when the economics are so bad.

Exactly. This mandate ups the cost of a home. That means if you wanted to build a 300K home, you can now only build a 275K home with solar panels.

Keep in mind, the subject state is California, it is impossible to build a new home for half a million dollars much less $300,000.

This home in sunnyvale recently sold for $2 million

 

[AntonToo]

I have 12kW system above my head, do you seriously think I don't know how much it will cost me?

I'm not being a smart ass here, just very curious: what did you pay for your system and how much was your electric bill prior to the panels?

I have two systems, but just to break down the bigger one for 1st floor:

System size 8.83kW - $28200,Tax incentives - $22,000
Year 1 production estimate 10,625 kWh, which is 102% of my electricity use for prior year.

Maybe I'm not following you correctly here, but are you saying that your main system actually only cost you $6,200?

Yes.

Okay, wel then it gets back down to how much other taxpayers are paying for your system. Taxpayers are paying three and a half times more for your electrical system than you are, so you are saving the money and the rest of us are paying for your savings.

I just don't care for that.

Ahh so now it's you paying for my tax-cuts. What a crazy idea considering how often righties say it was actually my money

But yes, thats a fair point. Government wants me to go solar and effectively uses general fund to finance it.