Zone1 Coming to know God

[SweetSue92]

I expect that from some Christians. I'm not subject to a reliance on faith.

I've missed your point.
I'm not demanding material evidence and I'm amenable to less perhaps, but with an adult's discretion.

Why should I accept your god? WHY?
The church betrayed the trust of a child when I was 12 or 13.
You're not making an attempt to win it back. Not only will I not seek your god, I won't allow him into my head. His church abused me as a child and the Christian church hasn't yet admitted to child abuse, never mind offering an apology!

Wait...

Are you talking real abuse or just taught you stuff you didn't like?

 

[SweetSue92]

When the Bible said god ordered those genocides, nothing was said about diseases. If you have to make up unsupported excuses to justify tour religious beliefs, are those beliefs worth having? All we have to indicate what god supposedly said is the bible. It's pretty specific what he intended. Again, if you have to make up unsupported excuses to justify your religion, is it worth having? Of course the people wanted the land and and convinced themselves god was ok with them going against everything the bible said about compassion, mercy, and fair treatment. That is exactly the same way that today's Christians convince themselves that god is ok with them going against everything the bible said about compassion, mercy, and fair treatment.

The genocides of the OT do not even hold a candle to what's coming.

God created your life and He has the right to end it whenever He chooses. He can, He does and He will.

I'm sorry you don't like that, but yet, there it is.

 

[BreezeWood]

Incorrect. You don't know the purpose of prayer. The practical application of prayer is to alter the fabric of one's identity. The structure of prayer matters. Giving thanks and giving praise puts one in a thankful state of mind which has been scientifically proven to be one of the key behaviors of reaching a state of happiness. When we are happy two things will happen; dopamine will be released which gives us that happy feeling and all of the learning centers of the brain get turned on.

Lastly and probably most important, prayer should not be about what God can do for us. Prayer should be about us asking God what He wants us to do.

Lastly and probably most important, prayer should not be about what God can do for us. Prayer should be about us asking God what He wants us to do.

it's obvious for who knows the heavenly intent - preying is not ever what is prescribed, finding one's way to a fee spirit and admission to the everlasting is the goal accomplished by the individuals own accomplishments -

preying is a selfserving interruption that in itself is a deterrent for accomplishing any objective.

the same for reading one's way into heaven, corrupt books of distractions.

 

[BreezeWood]

You never learned ACTS as the forms of conversational prayer?

A - Adoration
C - Contrition
T - Thankfulness
S - Supplication

- the same for reading one's way into heaven, corrupt books of distractions.

when 10000 pg documents are a distraction in of themselves how possibly can they be read than to satisfy their ulterior motives than as source of heavenly enlightenment.

 

[BreezeWood]

The genocides of the OT do not even hold a candle to what's coming.

God created your life and He has the right to end it whenever He chooses. He can, He does and He will.

I'm sorry you don't like that, but yet, there it is.

they know better than 92 - who would live in fear of others than live according to their own accord.

- your deity would indeed need being overthrown, who knows humanity, life on planet earth for what it is.

 

[Votto]

That's being deliberately dishonest and irrational. If you're attempting to hang your hat on that statement then you're going to have to provide some evidence for that reasoning.

Indeed, it's the imaginary. An older child understands just that!

Hopefully a younger child will go home and ask his parents if a man can live in the belly of a fish?

And hopefully the parent will answer the child's question honestly.

Or

Hopefully for the Sunday school teacher, the parent will play along with the lies!

How does a man survive in the belly of a fish?

Well how did matter come to be? How did life come to be? Duplicate either one scientifically. You say you can't?

No kidding. That's delving into the supernatural

And that is what I find the most puzzling. Why does one try to come to faith in a God that they insist on fully understanding scientifically? No such god exists and never will exist. In fact, people don't even understand themselves.

But to say there is no evidence for the God of the Bible is either ignorant or lying. In fact, the Bible is the only religious book I know of in which a scientific discipline has been created, namely Biblical Archeology. The fact is, the Bible is a rare commodity, that is, a historical look into the past no one else wrote about. In fact, most human history has no reroded history of any kind. People like the Philistines are unrecorded in history, except for the Bible, so they went digging where the Bible said they were located, and found them.

To say that there is no God that created life really flies in the face of math and science



So what are those of faith left with? We are left with explaining why bad things happen. Why does a loving God allow bad things to happen? For those of faith, explaining why bad things happen is their biggest obstacle, and probably why Job was the first book of the Bible to be written and the oldest book. There are lots of hard questions, not all of which will ever be answered. But for the atheist, it gets even worse, that is, they have to explain everything else.

 

[ding]

Yes, that's the gratification being sought from prayer.

That's not quite what you implied earlier. What you implied earlier is that people pray because they expect to receive something. But putting that aside, no, that's not the gratification being sought from prayer either. We pray for a whole host of reasons none of which is for personal gain. That's what drive the behaviors of atheists. Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. Which is why you can't understand why people pray or the purpose of prayer.

 

[ding]

Atheists have nothing in common with each other, except refusing to believe in one god. Yahweh.
We have something in common with Christians in that we reject all the thousands of other gods.

Your politics are off-topic, to which I'm forbidden to reply.

Incorrect. Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts.

That's what atheists have in common.

 

[Donald H]

Incorrect. Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts.

That's what atheists have in common.

I suppose that could be interpreted to mean that all atheists don't believe in the supernatural or a life after?

But then I'm not so sure about what other atheists believe that is beyond the simple description that includes all atheists. Maybe for some the great spaghetti monster is thought to offer something more than life on earth. It's every bit as likely as a god!

Your description really doesn't describe atheists anymore than it describes most who call themselves Christians.

You claim:

Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations....

Atheism is a description of only one manifestation. You can't suggest more than one manisfestation without including qualifying adjectives. I would never suggest that a man is a christian just because he's listed in government records as one.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But to say there is no evidence for the God of the Bible is either ignorant or lying.

There is not a shred of evidence for that. Nor will any be forthcoming.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well how did matter come to be? How did life come to be? Duplicate either one scientifically. You say you can't?

So what? Can you form a volcano or a star?

No?

Does that mean volcanos and stars don't form by natural processes?

Nope.

 

[Donald H]

That's not quite what you implied earlier. What you implied earlier is that people pray because they expect to receive something.

No, not exactly but perhaps close enough so that I can agree.

But putting that aside, no, that's not the gratification being sought from prayer either. We pray for a whole host of reasons none of which is for personal gain.

What could be one example of praying that wouldn't be motivated by personal gain? I think Meriweather might have understood and conceded the point.

That's what drive the behaviors of atheists. Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. Which is why you can't understand why people pray or the purpose of prayer.

At least 90% of praying is for personal gain, but we can debate the remaining 5 to 10%.

Your remarks on atheists are a repeat.................

Fwiw as an example: Praying that your wife survives Cancer is praying for personal gain.

 

[The Original Tree]

Because when I grew up and actually read the Bible, instead of a children's book, I found that the god depicted was far from the gentle loving god depicted in those children's books.

So God The Father loved your miserable wicked self so much despite your not deserving it, sent His Only Son who was God, The Son of God and left His Power and His Throne to become a human being, to live, suffer, be humiliated beaten and crucified, never once calling upon His Father to stop it when He could have called a Legion of Angels in an instant, buried and defeated Hell and Death itself, rose again, was seen by The Disciples and 500 others, and ascended to The Father having won the Victory over sin and is coming back again in Final Victory just so that you could call Him a Hateful God because you refuse to repent of your sins and accept the Gift of Salvation?

You sound like a spoiled child that is told NO, that they cannot have dessert before supper.
Temper Tantrum much?

You hate God, yet He loved you so much He asked His ONLY Son to sacrifice and humiliate Himself as a man to give your wicked soul the only chance it would ever have to be redeemed and reconciled back to the Father.

Typical God Hater, you are.
So blind in your Hatred of God that you cannot see the Act of Love He Sacrificed Himself for you and your recalcitrant unrepentant soul.

 

[The Original Tree]

And I did study the bible to make myself a better Christian. That's when I learned what is really there instead of what some teacher or preacher said about it. If god doesn't get angry, as you just claimed, why did he order the deaths of so many children, and order the deaths of livestock and then to salt the earth so nothing could grow?

Because God abhors wickedness and it must be destroyed. We should not entertain it, do businesses with it, nor condone it nor have any relationships with it.
God will stamp it out again permanently as we approach the soon coming end times. God cannot permit Evil to stand in His Presence and this is why The Unredeemed and Unrepentant must be separated from The Righteous Redeemed.

 

[Donald H]

How does a man survive in the belly of a fish?

Well how did matter come to be? How did life come to be? Duplicate either one scientifically. You say you can't?

No kidding. That's delving into the supernatural

Science doesn't delve into the supernatural. Science is working on discovering how life came about and has more than one theory. Christianity could perhaps attempt to offer some explanation on how one could live in the belly of a fish.

And that is what I find the most puzzling. Why does one try to come to faith in a God that they insist on fully understanding scientifically? No such god exists and never will exist. In fact, people don't even understand themselves.

But to say there is no evidence for the God of the Bible is either ignorant or lying. In fact, the Bible is the only religious book I know of in which a scientific discipline has been created, namely Biblical Archeology. The fact is, the Bible is a rare commodity, that is, a historical look into the past no one else wrote about. In fact, most human history has no reroded history of any kind. People like the Philistines are unrecorded in history, except for the Bible, so they went digging where the Bible said they were located, and found them.

I've already said that I'm not asking for evidence of a god. I know there is none.

To say that there is no God that created life really flies in the face of math and science

No it doesn't.

So what are those of faith left with? We are left with explaining why bad things happen. Why does a loving God allow bad things to happen? For those of faith, explaining why bad things happen is their biggest obstacle, and probably why Job was the first book of the Bible to be written and the oldest book. There are lots of hard questions, not all of which will ever be answered. But for the atheist, it gets even worse, that is, they have to explain everything else.

No, an atheist doesn't need to explain everything. But that could be said of science's goal.

 

[Meriweather]

What could be one example of praying that wouldn't be motivated by personal gain? I think Meriweather might have understood and conceded the point.

I did neither - apparently I did not understand, nor have I a clue on why you think I conceded the point? How does one find God through personal gain?

 

[ding]

I suppose that could be interpreted to mean that all atheists don't believe in the supernatural or a life after?

But then I'm not so sure about what other atheists believe that is beyond the simple description that includes all atheists. Maybe for some the great spaghetti monster is thought to offer something more than life on earth. It's every bit as likely as a god!

Your description really doesn't describe atheists anymore than it describes most who call themselves Christians.

You claim:
Atheism is a description of only one manifestation. You can't suggest more than one manisfestation without including qualifying adjectives. I would never suggest that a man is a christian just because he's listed in government records as one.

My claim can only be analyzed in it's entirety. You can't parse out everything after manifestations and expect it to make sense.

Atheism proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts.

Which is why you can't understand why people pray or the purpose of prayer.

 

[Meriweather]

So God The Father loved your miserable wicked self

I disagree that God sees people as miserable and wicked--certainly He does not see Bulldog in that light!

 

[Donald H]

I did neither - apparently I did not understand, nor have I a clue on why you think I conceded the point? How does one find God through personal gain?

You didn't argue the point so I claimed it.

The attempt to find your god is an attempt at personal gain.

I think you might claim that it would enrich your life, but you might be able to explain the personal gain better.

 

[ding]

No, not exactly but perhaps close enough so that I can agree.

What could be one example of praying that wouldn't be motivated by personal gain? I think Meriweather might have understood and conceded the point.

At least 90% of praying is for personal gain, but we can debate the remaining 5 to 10%.

Your remarks on atheists are a repeat.................

Fwiw as an example: Praying that your wife survives Cancer is praying for personal gain.

I haven't been reading everyone else's posts. Merriweather - like everyone else - is entitled to their opinion and can speak for themselves. I'm sure some people (not named Merriweather) ask God for color TV's but I don't know anyone who does.

So I believe it is worth repeating that I believe... The practical application of prayer is to alter the fabric of one's identity. That the structure of prayer matters. That giving thanks and giving praise puts one in a thankful state of mind which has been scientifically proven to be one of the key behaviors of reaching a state of happiness. When we are happy two things will happen; dopamine will be released which gives us that happy feeling and all of the learning centers of the brain get turned on.

Lastly and probably most important, I was taught that prayer should not be about what God can do for us. Prayer should be about us asking God what He wants us to do.