Zone1 Coming to know God

[Meriweather]

In no way do I get the impression that the Great Flood was a fluke when reading the scriptures, although I guess you are free to question the validity of how it was written.

The account of the flood was written after the fact, or in hindsight. The flood was the setting, as was the picture we are given of humanity at the time. Many see the main character of the story as God. God sent the flood. God killed mankind. We take our eyes off Noah. What is Noah saying...or more to the point, what is Noah not saying.

If something were to happen to America today, in hindsight, I believe everyone would see our behavior was not at its best. In hindsight, people at the time of the flood acknowledged their behavior had not been at its best. The theme of, We can do better, is something to consider both then and now.

 

[Meriweather]

We know small pieces of information in the Bible regarding how evil society has to become before God unleashes his fury upon them

Not my perspective...but I understand what you are saying.

 

[BreezeWood]

The purpose of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son was to test Abraham's faith in God to see if Abraham's love for God was reciprocal. It was also a prophetic depiction of The Coming Messiah when God The Father would send His only son as a sacrifice for The Sins of Man.
The Law of Reciprocation demonstrated by Abraham would in The Future make it possible for God to offer up His Only Son.

What was it that Abraham said to his son on the way up the mountain when his son asked where was the lamb?

"God will provide the sacrifice"

Then suddenly appeared a ram caught in a thicket of thorns.

Fast forward to when The Children of Abraham were in Egypt and you see The First Passover where only The Blood of The Lamb would spare you from death.

Fast forward some more and you see The Lamb of God upon The Cross with a Crown of Thorns upon His head.
The Passover Lamb.

"God Provided The Sacrifice"

not in the least -

“Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love. Use him ...

that was the heavens in reference to the trappings and evil associated with monogamous relationships. the evils of the desert religions.

 

[Votto]

The account of the flood was written after the fact, or in hindsight. The flood was the setting, as was the picture we are given of humanity at the time. Many see the main character of the story as God. God sent the flood. God killed mankind. We take our eyes off Noah. What is Noah saying...or more to the point, what is Noah not saying.

If something were to happen to America today, in hindsight, I believe everyone would see our behavior was not at its best. In hindsight, people at the time of the flood acknowledged their behavior had not been at its best. The theme of, We can do better, is something to consider both then and now.

The scriptures are clear that society will get as bad, if not worse, than the days of Noah

Then the Lord will return, otherwise, man destroys himself like he tried to do in the days of Noah.

I guess Armageddon beats a massive flood, or does it?

Either way, heads will roll once again, and we have not even begun to talk about the final judgement yet.

 

[Meriweather]

Either way, heads will roll once again, and we have not even begun to talk about the final judgement yet.

Again, not my perspective. Why are we not talking about redemption?

 

[BULLDOG]

I am not the only person who can assure you God is, and does exist. I cannot help but wonder why people hang onto--even embrace--the idea of no God? I cannot help but wonder what those who refuse to believe are looking for.

I almost envy your belief. I am open to a god existing, after all, I spent most of my life believing god exists, and that he loved me. Sorry, but I require more than your assurance.

 

[BULLDOG]

My point is that the world is at war. I don't think anyone wants babies dead except the abortion industry. When there is a war, innocent people will die. There is no way around that.

Another example of what you are talking about is when God asked Abraham to kill his son as a sacrifice. On the surface, that looks insane. However, if you take the story in context to what was going on during that time, it starts to make sense. During that time it was common for people to sacrifice their children to pagan gods like Molech, so the request would have not been as shocking to Abraham as it is to us today. And as we see in the story, Abraham did not want to do it. He loved his son. And I think on some level Abraham either believed God would stop him, which he did, or would raise his son back up to life based on the promises God made to him concerning him.

So God stopped him, but why ask in the first place? It was to show him and the world that the God of the Bible does no sacrifice innocent blood like the pagan gods because he was different. It sent a message and it gave us the most courageous examples of faith in the Bible.

As for mandates to kill during the Canaanite conquests to which you refer, this is yet another example of faith being on trial. What was God thinking? Was there a better way? These are questions all people of faith struggle with, just as Jacob struggled with God physically. In fact, Israel, which Jacob was latter named after his struggle with God, means to wrestle with God.

I have my own conjectures about this, but I still have faith in God's judgement. If they had not done it, would it had led to more death and suffering later on, for example.

But we can only conjecture, as where God knows all.

Another example would be the Great Flood. Did God save humanity by killing them all off? You would say no, but those of faith would tend to think this way

At the end of the day, only God knows.

I keep thinking of a scene from Schindler's List as Russians roll into a POW concentration camp in Nazi Germany. They simply take a look around and see the evil depravity, and just start hanging people without uttering a word. No trial, no rehabilitation, no, these people just needed to be dealt with yesterday. This is how I view the people during the Great Flood

Sorry, but a god that in a fit of anger would order the deaths of every living person and animal, even those who were too young to have broken any laws, is bloodthirsty and cruel.

 

[Meriweather]

I almost envy your belief. I am open to a god existing, after all, I spent most of my life believing god exists, and that he loved me. Sorry, but I require more than your assurance.

I do understand. It is not belief for me but beyond that into knowledge/experience. I am merely saying should you ever wish to undertake your search again, God can be found. The Bible can be a distraction, and I recommend God first, then the Bible. The even harder part is erasing all expectations of God. They only get in the way.

And be forewarned...it is more blessed to believe without seeing. Faith is there for us for a good reason.

 

[Meriweather]

Sorry, but a god that in a fit of anger would order the deaths of every living person and animal, even those who were too young to have broken any laws, is bloodthirsty and cruel.

This is exactly why one should seek God first before relying on the Bible to shed light on our Creator. Compared to the reality of the light of God, the Bible is a dim flashlight running on a weak battery.

 

[ding]

This is exactly why one should seek God first before relying on the Bible to shed light on our Creator. Compared to the reality of the light of God, the Bible is a dim flashlight running on a weak battery.

That kind of talk will get you into trouble with certain groups but I believe there is no better way. It puts one in the correct frame of mind to truly understand the Bible.

 

[BreezeWood]

That kind of talk will get you into trouble with certain groups but I believe there is no better way. It puts one in the correct frame of mind to truly understand the Bible.

that is not true - for those that defend the 4th century c-bible - the desert religions substitute themselves for the true path of heavenly paradise, spiritual admission to the everlasting. no book is written that can.

 

[The Original Tree]

Sorry, but a god that in a fit of anger would order the deaths of every living person and animal, even those who were too young to have broken any laws, is bloodthirsty and cruel.

God has a lot of baby killing to do to catch up with the likes of you and your comrades, does he not? Just between Canada and the US over 100,000,000 Million Abortions have been performed. Yet you defend and applaud that and call it choice, while you hypocritically tell God He has No Choice and No Right to Judge a Wicked People for their sins.

Your problem is that you want zero accountability to God. You look for every excuse to mock God and assault His character and judge Him by your own standards. Standards that you, yourself cannot adhere to.

This is the case with every God Hater and God Denier I know.

They hate God because it interferes with their idea of "doing what thou wilt" with no consequences.

You want to sin and not pay the wages of sin.

The wages of sin are death.

Yet you gamble that He who is the giver of Life will never ask you to pay, and at the same time, He offers a way to escape such a payment through Christ and you also reject that.

What a tortured hypocritical fool you are.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Because when I grew up and actually read the Bible, instead of a children's book, I found that the god depicted was far from the gentle loving god depicted in those children's books.

That's what happens when people take the Bible out of its context, the Church.

If all I had ever had was the Bible, I too would have.. come to a similar conclusion as you have.

But fortunately, I was raised (more or less) in the Church Christ founded (and also, had only read the New Testament). The Old T is enough to make anyone.. uh.. words fail.. but it is difficult to comprehend a lot of what is in there.. without the Church

 

[notmyfault2020]

God has a lot of baby killing to do to catch up with the likes of you and your comrades, does he not? Just between Canada and the US over 100,000,000 Million Abortions have been performed. Yet you defend and applaud that and call it choice, while you hypocritically tell God He has No Choice and No Right to Judge a Wicked People for their sins.

Your problem is that you want zero accountability to God. You look for every excuse to mock God and assault His character and judge Him by your own standards. Standards that you, yourself cannot adhere to.

This is the case with every God Hater and God Denier I know.

They hate God because it interferes with their idea of "doing what thou wilt" with no consequences.

You want to sin and not pay the wages of sin.

The wages of sin are death.

Yet you gamble that He who is the giver of Life will never ask you to pay, and at the same time, He offers a way to escape such a payment through Christ and you also reject that.

What a tortured hypocritical fool you are.

well, your message was right-on except for that last thing. You have to admit calling people a Fool is not exactly what Jesus would have us do?

Besides, it makes us think you have lowered yourself to their level.. the libs.. That's a low level indeed.. sewer level

 

[The Original Tree]

well, your message was right-on except for that last thing. You have to admit calling people a Fool is not exactly what Jesus would have us do?

Besides, it makes us think you have lowered yourself to their level.. the libs.. That's a low level indeed.. sewer level

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God.

If I was too harsh, it is only because the penalty of rejecting salvation is eternal death.

But you make a point.

 

[Meriweather]

The fool has said in his heart that there is no God.

If I was too harsh, it is only because the penalty of rejecting salvation is eternal death.

I think it is more immediate than that. It has to more with our present life than the next.

 

[BULLDOG]

That's what happens when people take the Bible out of its context, the Church.

If all I had ever had was the Bible, I too would have.. come to a similar conclusion as you have.

But fortunately, I was raised (more or less) in the Church Christ founded (and also, had only read the New Testament). The Old T is enough to make anyone.. uh.. words fail.. but it is difficult to comprehend a lot of what is in there.. without the Church

Oh really? You want to just ignore parts of the bible, but you're willing to make decisions about what you think will be your eternal life because some guy said the voices in his head told him? Sure, BooBoo that sounds like some mighty fine reasoning to me.

 

[ding]

Oh really? You want to just ignore parts of the bible, but you're willing to make decisions about what you think will be your eternal life because some guy said the voices in his head told him? Sure, BooBoo that sounds like some mighty fine reasoning to me.

No. You should read it like an adult and not an overly emotional child. Stop blaming Jewish embellishment on God. It's illogical.

 

[BULLDOG]

No. You should read it like an adult and not an overly emotional child. Stop blaming Jewish embellishment on God. It's illogical.

Well make up your mind. Which parts are supposed to be true, and which parts are embellishment? Who makes that decision, and what specific criteria do they use?

 

[Meriweather]

Which parts are supposed to be true, and which parts are embellishment? Who makes that decision, and what specific criteria do they use?

Go back to the original Hebrew. Also keep in mind how the English language is prone to great changes over time.

Also...you said at one time you believed you loved God and that God loved you. That is your foundation. God loves. People give usually one-sided accounts of their perspective of what took place. People are also the heroes of their own stories.

Another big clue: Jews believe, insist, God's ways are not our ways and that He sees things differently than people see them.

Could it be that for some reason you actually wanted to see God in the light you believe the Bible paints Him? If so, why did you want this? People we love generally get the benefit of the doubt. People we are mad at often do not. Were you upset with God? (Just wondering, not trying to analyze you.)