Zone1 Coming to know God

[Meriweather]

So why did god want all those infants and children to die?

I doubt that God sees death as unfortunate, any more than people see going to sleep as unfortunate. The next day lies beyond sleep, and a new life lies beyond death.

 

[Clyde 154]

Two thoughts to address: The first is how did you come to know God, and to have faith in God?

The second: Specifically what made you decide there is no God to know? What caused you to stop exploring the possibility?

As frequent posters here may know, I first came to know about God in children's Little Golden Books. At that young age, getting to know about God made me insistent that knowing about God wasn't enough. Abraham, Noah, Moses had their experiences, and I wanted mine. Little Golden Books started me out, and my own stubbornness and persistence took it from there.

Why did you continue...or, why did you give up?

One can only "KNOW" God by the things He wishes to reveal. "Oh the depths of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways." -- Romans 11:33. Paul is attempting to explain How the disobedience of Israel led to the gift of salvation for the entire world........by allowing ALL to be disobedient, it was God's plan for mankind to have the laws of God exist within those who would accept the gift of Salvation through God's mercy and love, a love so great that God gave His only begotten Son as sacrifice for the sins of all. (Romans 11:28-36).

God did not reveal this TRUTH, this "mystery" until a time of His choosing.......what was a mystery under the Old Law became knowledge through the Truth revealed by the Apostles of Christ as inspired by the Holy Spirit as directed by Jesus from heaven. (Eph. 3:1-6, Col. 1:26)

Today there is only one method to KNOW GOD. God no longer speaks through prophets to men revealing His will and His plans for future dates.........God reveals His will through CHRIST JESUS. If you know Chirst, you KNOW GOD, we KNOW CHRIST through the revelations of the Holy Scriptures. (Heb. 1:1-14)


Those of the truth from Heaven listen to the words of Jesus. "For this purpose was I born and for this purpose I have come into the world........to bear witness to the Truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice......." -- John 18:37 In the end.......WE KNOW ONLY WHAT GOD HAS REVEALED through HIS SON. The greatest knowledge is the realization of God's Love for mankind, as He would Hope that all men be saved by coming to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). No man has ever done anything that is worthy of eternal salvation, we lie if we say we have no sin (1 John 1:7).....we all sin and are guilty of lawlessness.......just as Paul explained above, God allowed all to be disobedient in order that all may be subject to salvation through coming to the knowing of the Truth and God's Grace and Love toward mankind.

 

[BreezeWood]

I haven't been reading everyone else's posts. Merriweather - like everyone else - is entitled to their opinion and can speak for themselves. I'm sure some people (not named Merriweather) ask God for color TV's but I don't know anyone who does.

So I believe it is worth repeating that I believe... The practical application of prayer is to alter the fabric of one's identity. That the structure of prayer matters. That giving thanks and giving praise puts one in a thankful state of mind which has been scientifically proven to be one of the key behaviors of reaching a state of happiness. When we are happy two things will happen; dopamine will be released which gives us that happy feeling and all of the learning centers of the brain get turned on.

Lastly and probably most important, I was taught that prayer should not be about what God can do for us. Prayer should be about us asking God what He wants us to do.

The practical application of prayer ...

- is an abdication from the personal initiative necessary to discover truths using ones own means.

 

[BreezeWood]

So you believe in a bigger miracle that the universe can spontaneous burst forth from the size of a pinhead?
Then you go on to believe in an even more impossible astronomically unrealistic "accident of faith" that life burst forth all on it's own from some primordial slime?

Where do I sign up for that Cult? Sounds like a Fantastic Fairy Tale.

bb is cyclical - does spontaneously burst forth from pure energy to materialization of matter by its own confluence, the metaphysical forces responsible for all that exists.

 

[BreezeWood]

I doubt that God sees death as unfortunate, any more than people see going to sleep as unfortunate. The next day lies beyond sleep, and a new life lies beyond death.

oh, you've been enlightened - best scratch that one from the phony 10 commandments, for that matter may as well do all 10.

 

[ding]

Donald H and BULLDOG

You have been called out in the Bull Ring. Time to put on your big boy pants.

Calling Out Donald H

Calling Out Bulldog

 

[Votto]

So why did god want all those infants and children to die?

When the US attacked Iraq, why did Bush want all those infants and children to die?

When FDR attacked Nazi Germany, why did he want all those infants and children to die?

And the list goes on.

 

[BULLDOG]

When the US attacked Iraq, why did Bush want all those infants and children to die?

When FDR attacked Nazi Germany, why did he want all those infants and children to die?

And the list goes on.

There is certainly collateral damage in every war. I don't remember anything about Bush or FDR giving specific instructions to target and kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

 

[ding]

There is certainly collateral damage in every war. I don't remember anything about Bush or FDR giving specific instructions to target and kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

You are blaming Jewish embellishment on God and using that as your excuse to not believe in God. It's idiotic.

And you are a coward for running away from discussing it in the bull ring.

 

[BULLDOG]

You are blaming Jewish embellishment on God and using that as your excuse to not believe in God. It's idiotic.

And you are a coward for running away from discussing it in the bull ring.

Not running away from anything. I gave you the courtesy of one response which is on more than I had told you I would. If you wanted to discuss my believing in god, why didn't put that in your silly thread?

I have seen nothing to make me believe that your god, or any god exists. That's the full story. Happy now?

 

[ding]

Not running away from anything. I gave you the courtesy of one response which is on more than I had told you I would. If you wanted to discuss my believing in god, why didn't put that in your silly thread?

I have seen nothing to make me believe that your god, or any god exists. That's the full story. Happy now?

Your logic is flawed and you know it and that's why you ran away. Because it puts all of your silliness in one easy to read place. You're a coward. Not too worry, I'll just copy and paste your nonsensical arguments into that thread for you because I'm tired of reading your silliness.

 

[BULLDOG]

Your logic is flawed and you know it and that's why you ran away. Because it puts all of your silliness in one easy to read place. You're a coward. Not too worry, I'll just copy and paste your nonsensical arguments into that thread for you because I'm tired of reading your silliness.

Okey Dokey.

 

[Meriweather]

I have seen nothing to make me believe that your god, or any god exists. That's the full story.

I am not the only person who can assure you God is, and does exist. I cannot help but wonder why people hang onto--even embrace--the idea of no God? I cannot help but wonder what those who refuse to believe are looking for.

 

[Votto]

There is certainly collateral damage in every war. I don't remember anything about Bush or FDR giving specific instructions to target and kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

My point is that the world is at war. I don't think anyone wants babies dead except the abortion industry. When there is a war, innocent people will die. There is no way around that.

Another example of what you are talking about is when God asked Abraham to kill his son as a sacrifice. On the surface, that looks insane. However, if you take the story in context to what was going on during that time, it starts to make sense. During that time it was common for people to sacrifice their children to pagan gods like Molech, so the request would have not been as shocking to Abraham as it is to us today. And as we see in the story, Abraham did not want to do it. He loved his son. And I think on some level Abraham either believed God would stop him, which he did, or would raise his son back up to life based on the promises God made to him concerning him.

So God stopped him, but why ask in the first place? It was to show him and the world that the God of the Bible does no sacrifice innocent blood like the pagan gods because he was different. It sent a message and it gave us the most courageous examples of faith in the Bible.

As for mandates to kill during the Canaanite conquests to which you refer, this is yet another example of faith being on trial. What was God thinking? Was there a better way? These are questions all people of faith struggle with, just as Jacob struggled with God physically. In fact, Israel, which Jacob was latter named after his struggle with God, means to wrestle with God.

I have my own conjectures about this, but I still have faith in God's judgement. If they had not done it, would it had led to more death and suffering later on, for example.

But we can only conjecture, as where God knows all.

Another example would be the Great Flood. Did God save humanity by killing them all off? You would say no, but those of faith would tend to think this way

At the end of the day, only God knows.

I keep thinking of a scene from Schindler's List as Russians roll into a POW concentration camp in Nazi Germany. They simply take a look around and see the evil depravity, and just start hanging people without uttering a word. No trial, no rehabilitation, no, these people just needed to be dealt with yesterday. This is how I view the people during the Great Flood

 

[Meriweather]

People seem to want to begin with who they want to see in God. Just as God began creation with a Word, we use words to create the God we want. Then we go looking for that God...who does not exist. Why our failure in desire to meet our unique Creator, the distinctive Being He actually is instead of just who we want Him to be?

 

[Meriweather]

Another example would be the Great Flood. Did God save humanity by killing them all off?

I got back to God as Creator. I tend towards believing the flood was a natural disaster; that in the heat of battle the Israelites went too far. Simply because I tend towards this, doesn't mean that is what went down and I keep that firmly in mind as well.

My focus is on, What came after? Time after time we see good rising out of the disaster, which should give us confidence in terrible times. Nothing has been so bad that good has failed to come from it.

 

[Votto]

People seem to want to begin with who they want to see in God. Just as God began creation with a Word, we use words to create the God we want. Then we go looking for that God...who does not exist. Why our failure in desire to meet our unique Creator, the distinctive Being He actually is instead of just who we want Him to be?

We all have a mental image of who and what God is that is skewed. The difference being, those that reject God is the most skewed. They don't see love, like Jesus was as God in the flesh, they see how man interacted with God before he walked the earth with man, which made it harder to know him and understand him.

Notice, none of the objections to God arise from him walking with man and speaking for himself instead of man speaking for him. All religions accept Christ, and atheists cannot drag assassinate his character.

Jesus is the best example we have of who and what God is.

 

[The Original Tree]

My point is that the world is at war. I don't think anyone wants babies dead except the abortion industry. When there is a war, innocent people will die. There is no way around that.

Another example of what you are talking about is when God asked Abraham to kill his son as a sacrifice. On the surface, that looks insane. However, if you take the story in context to what was going on during that time, it starts to make sense. During that time it was common for people to sacrifice their children to pagan gods like Molech, so the request would have not been as shocking to Abraham as it is to us today. And as we see in the story, Abraham did not want to do it. He loved his son. And I think on some level Abraham either believed God would stop him, which he did, or would raise his son back up to life based on the promises God made to him concerning him.

So God stopped him, but why ask in the first place? It was to show him and the world that the God of the Bible does no sacrifice innocent blood like the pagan gods because he was different. It sent a message and it gave us the most courageous examples of faith in the Bible.

As for mandates to kill during the Canaanite conquests to which you refer, this is yet another example of faith being on trial. What was God thinking? Was there a better way? These are questions all people of faith struggle with, just as Jacob struggled with God physically. In fact, Israel, which Jacob was latter named after his struggle with God, means to wrestle with God.

I have my own conjectures about this, but I still have faith in God's judgement. If they had not done it, would it had led to more death and suffering later on, for example.

But we can only conjecture, as where God knows all.

Another example would be the Great Flood. Did God save humanity by killing them all off? You would say no, but those of faith would tend to think this way

At the end of the day, only God knows.

The purpose of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son was to test Abraham's faith in God to see if Abraham's love for God was reciprocal. It was also a prophetic depiction of The Coming Messiah when God The Father would send His only son as a sacrifice for The Sins of Man.
The Law of Reciprocation demonstrated by Abraham would in The Future make it possible for God to offer up His Only Son.

What was it that Abraham said to his son on the way up the mountain when his son asked where was the lamb?

"God will provide the sacrifice"

Then suddenly appeared a ram caught in a thicket of thorns.

Fast forward to when The Children of Abraham were in Egypt and you see The First Passover where only The Blood of The Lamb would spare you from death.

Fast forward some more and you see The Lamb of God upon The Cross with a Crown of Thorns upon His head.
The Passover Lamb.

"God Provided The Sacrifice"

 

[Votto]

I got back to God as Creator. I tend towards believing the flood was a natural disaster; that in the heat of battle the Israelites went too far. Simply because I tend towards this, doesn't mean that is what went down and I keep that firmly in mind as well.

My focus is on, What came after? Time after time we see good rising out of the disaster, which should give us confidence in terrible times. Nothing has been so bad that good has failed to come from it.

In no way do I get the impression that the Great Flood was a fluke when reading the scriptures, although I guess you are free to question the validity of how it was written.

But just with personal visions and experiences of how evil can destroy a society, like in Nazi Germany, such harsh judgements start to make sense.

We know small pieces of information in the Bible regarding how evil society has to become before God unleashes his fury upon them, like in Sodom as they try to gang rape anyone entering their town or the sacrifice of innocents to pagan gods in the land of Canaan. The rest we simply have to speculate about. But I find many atheists don't even believe in evil, and think that the nature of man is good. When you take such views, their rejection of God's judgements make a lot more sense.

 

[Votto]

The purpose of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son was to test Abraham's faith in God to see if Abraham's love for God was reciprocal. It was also a prophetic depiction of The Coming Messiah when God The Father would send His only son as a sacrifice for The Sins of Man.
The Law of Reciprocation would in The Future make it possible for God to offer up His Only Son.

What was it that Abraham said to his son on the way up the mountain when his son asked where was the lamb?

"God will provide the sacrifice"

Then suddenly appeared a ram caught in a thicket of thorns.

Fast forward to when The Children of Abraham were in Egypt and you see The First Passover where only The Blood of The Lamb would spare you from death.

Fast forward some more and you see The Lamb of God upon The Cross with a Crown of Thorns.
The Passover Lamb.

"God Provided The Sacrifice"

I don't deny those views either, but they do not negate my point either.

Well said.