Columbus. Good or bad?

[Picaro]

The Cathars defended themselves, of course. They retaliated against the priests, of course. But, even so, that did not justify Crusader barbarism.

Sucks to be losers. Starting shit you can't finish never works out well. No loss in their case. But all you got is a handful of brief incidents, spread out over centuries, while your feral savages have no other history to brag on. They do make nice blankets, now that they have access to dyes and cloth from Whitey and can order stuff from Chinese suppliers to peddle to tourists as 'real hand made indian crafts n stuff'. lol

 

[Picaro]

At least their didn't purposefully eliminate their own population.

Indians exterminated each other all the time. Lots of tribes got wiped out or assimilated. When you get older they might let you start reading adult history.

As for Europe, not much to be done about radical changes in weather and temperature, except move, and of course that always meets resistance from somebody.

It's worth noting that the pilgrims were aided by a native who went to England and was educated there, and then came back to America, so obviously some were treated well enough.

 

[ESay]

Indians exterminated each other all the time. Lots of tribes got wiped out or assimilated. When you get older they might let you start reading adult history.

As for Europe, not much to be done about radical changes in weather and temperature, except move, and of course that always meets resistance from somebody.

It's worth noting that the pilgrims were aided by a native who went to England and was educated there, and then came back to America, so obviously some were treated well enough.

I was not claiming that the Natives were cute puppies. Their relations among each other were quite cruel and they were far from that romanticised image depicted for some time.

But that doesn't change the fact that former Spanish colonies have far more Native/mestizo population than British ones. And this fact casts some doubts on the claim that most American Natives died out of 'European' diseases. It seems they were annihilated by the British (and to some extent German) colonists.

 

[Picaro]

I was not claiming that the Natives were cute puppies. Their relations among each other were quite cruel and they were far from that romanticised image depicted for some time.

But that doesn't change the fact that former Spanish colonies have far more Native/mestizo population than British ones. And this fact casts some doubts on the claim that most American Natives died out of 'European' diseases. It seems they were annihilated by the British (and to some extent German) colonists.

British colonies have fared much better than Spanish and French ones. As for diseases, that worked on Europeans as well, so it wasn't one-sided. Also there are still many indian tribes in South and Central America that aren't mestizo. Same in the U.S. with some reservation clans. Most modern reservations are shitholes run by crime syndicates, with few exceptions. Culture matters, and most 'natives' obviously prefer the opportunities offered by white culture. Whites are the least racist people on the planet, especially the Christians, often to their own regrets, but they are who they are. A significant percentage of Americans claim native american ancestors. Assimilating isn't the same as 'genocided', except to assorted brown racists. And you do know latinos are descended from native americans right? Add them to the numbers.

 

[ESay]

British colonies have fared much better than Spanish and French ones. As for diseases, that worked on Europeans as well, so it wasn't one-sided. Also there are still many indian tribes in South and Central America that aren't mestizo. Same in the U.S. with some reservation clans. Most modern reservations are shitholes run by crime syndicates, with few exceptions. Culture matters, and most 'natives' obviously prefer the opportunities offered by white culture. Whites are the least racist people on the planet, especially the Christians, often to their own regrets, but they are who they are. A significant percentage of Americans claim native american ancestors. Assimilating isn't the same as 'genocided', except to assorted brown racists. And you do know latinos are descended from native americans right? Add them to the numbers.

Indeed, they fared much better. Because of the Protestant work ethic. Too bad, America doesn't have it anymore.

The Whites may be the least racist people as for now. But that was quite untrue until recently.

I don't try to paint the Natives all in white. But the fact still stands. They were assimilated in say what is now Mexico, but they were genocided in what now is the US. And an 'ethnic' chart of both countries says more than clearly about that.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Sucks to be losers. Starting shit you can't finish never works out well. No loss in their case. But all you got is a handful of brief incidents, spread out over centuries, while your feral savages have no other history to brag on. They do make nice blankets, now that they have access to dyes and cloth from Whitey and can order stuff from Chinese suppliers to peddle to tourists as 'real hand made indian crafts n stuff'. lol

You are right about that. You can never finish your stuff here, always losing and whining.

 

[Zebra]

16 voters

 

[Zincwarrior]

• No written language, and nothing to write it on, even if they did,

Incorrect. Mayans for example. Spanish burned their codexes.

• No domesticated animals that could do work (horses were introduced by the Spaniards),

Alpaca, dogs.

• No metallurgy, and hence no material that could be made into a durable blade, or a useful shield or projectile,

Copper, gold, silver. They did not have steel technology.

• Nothing resembling gun powder; nothing explosive,

You've never eaten good mexican food.

• Not invented THE WHEEL yet,

no domestic animals.

• No mortar, which is essential in making multi-story buildings,

The pyramid of the Sun and Moon would like a word.

• No real medicine or surgery,

At least they didn't have leaches.

• No way of making BOARDS; they just looked for trees and branches of useful size and shape and bound them together, hence their water craft were all small and extremely limited in their use,

Maya, Toltec, Aztec, Inca would like a word.

• No concept of the earth that was consistent with sea travel beyond line of sight.

Like...the Romans.

 

[boevans]

The British were no harder on natives than they were on themselves. You're just a sniveling racist, is all.

Your head is hurting again. Are the little people after you again?

 

[Picaro]

Indeed, they fared much better. Because of the Protestant work ethic. Too bad, America doesn't have it anymore.

The Whites may be the least racist people as for now. But that was quite untrue until recently.

I don't try to paint the Natives all in white. But the fact still stands. They were assimilated in say what is now Mexico, but they were genocided in what now is the US. And an 'ethnic' chart of both countries says more than clearly about that.

Rubbish.

 

[ESay]

Rubbish.

Yes, I know it is hard to admit - expecially given that since the kindergarten you were indulged in narratives of your country being a beacon of freedom and justice - that your nation was built on a basis of prejudice, cruelty and oppression. But you are a big boy now, you can deal with that.

 

[Picaro]

Yes, I know it is hard to admit - expecially given that since the kindergarten you were indulged in narratives of your country being a beacon of freedom and justice - that your nation was built on a basis of prejudice, cruelty and oppression. But you are a big boy now, you can deal with that.

lol you can't find any who did better, which is why you're sniveling about the U.S. We make the rest of you look like the chumps you are. The rest of you were and still are far worse.

 

[ESay]

lol you can't find any who did better, which is why you're sniveling about the U.S. We make the rest of you look like the chumps you are. The rest of you were and still are far worse.

What do you mean by 'did better' and 'far worse'? On what scale did you measure it?

 

[Picaro]

What do you mean by 'did better' and 'far worse'? On what scale did you measure it?

Any scale. Of course most of the world has no morals or standards, so they would be puzzled by those.

 

[martybegan]

not based on demographics.

In the parts of the Americas colonized by the English/Germanic settlers, almost no Native Americans remain, a tiny percent of North America

In most of the parts colonized by Spain/Portugal, a majority of the population has mixed native/European ancestry

That suggests to me that one group mixed with the natives and one group simply annihilated them

Because they bred with the ones that were left.

What was the estimated numbers before settlement, and after the conquests of north America were completed?

 

[ESay]

Any scale. Of course most of the world has no morals or standards, so they would be puzzled by those.

In other words, nothing serious, just meaningless babbling.

 

[Picaro]

In other words, nothing serious, just meaningless babbling.

In other words, you're just full of shit, as usual.

 

[Picaro]

Because they bred with the ones that were left.

What was the estimated numbers before settlement, and after the conquests of north America were completed?

European immigrants died in waves, too, and in much larger numbers. So what's your idiot handwave for that fact?

 

[martybegan]

European immigrants died in waves, too, and in much larger numbers. So what's your idiot handwave for that fact?

I want to see the numbers before making any comments on them, if there are actually any hard numbers out there.

Between no record keeping by the natives and shoddy recordkeeping by the colonists, I doubt any number is reliable.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What do you think?

Fairly nice city. Great zoo. Too cold in the winter for my taste.