Columbus. Good or bad?

[Harry Dresden]

dam wops....

 

[martybegan]

Wow, the Nazis should have thought of that. Just give genocide a nice name, and it becomes okay.

Nobody "forgot". Columbus just subscribed to a screwball theory the earth was pear shaped and he could bypass the distance by going north. He was wrong on all counts.

Nazis made specific laws forbidding relations with jews and Germans, hell even Poles and Germans. The Spanish and Portuguese who colonized most of the Carribean and South America had no such qualms.

Easy for you to say centuries later. Talk about not being able to understand the situation at the time.

More of that narcissism you always show.

 

[Innocynioc]

The one who deserves great credit is Columbus' public relations director. People had been traveling to, into and around America for thousands of years when Columbus stumbled into an Island in the Gulf of Mexico and suddenly Columbus discovered America.

 

[JoeB131]

Nazis made specific laws forbidding relations with jews and Germans, hell even Poles and Germans. The Spanish and Portuguese who colonized most of the Carribean and South America had no such qualms.

Easy for you to say centuries later. Talk about not being able to understand the situation at the time.

More of that narcissism you always show.

The Europeans made similar laws about breeding with Native Americans. Didn't stop white folks from raping them, though.

The colonization of the New World was a humanitarian disaster. But it didn't happen to white people, so that made it okay in your eyes.

 

[martybegan]

The Europeans made similar laws about breeding with Native Americans. Didn't stop white folks from raping them, though.

The colonization of the New World was a humanitarian disaster. But it didn't happen to white people, so that made it okay in your eyes.

That's mostly later, and mostly about blacks.

It was inevitable. And the worst stuff was done by southern Europeans, not the usual English/Nordic bugaboos of the left.

 

[whitehall]

Columbus wasn't the problem. He was just just a sailor. He was a tool of a corrupt racist regime that subjugated the native population of the Americas and stole their treasure.

 

[mikegriffith1]

What do you think?

On balance, all things considered, I think Columbus was good.

 

[JoeB131]

On balance, all things considered, I think Columbus was good.

Yeah, it's not like he was killing white people.

Mormon Fuckhead.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Yeah, it's not like he was killing white people.

Mormon *&^$%^#.

Oh, look, it's our resident Mao-loving, Stalin-whitewashing Marxist crawling out of his hole to spew more of his hateful, profanity-laced drivel.

As many here have noted, this guy gets most of his information on historical issues from Wikipedia.

You know who one of the first groups were to speak out against Columbus Day? The Ku Klux Klan. Because they hated Catholics.

Here are some factual defenses of Columbus:

5 reasons to defend Christopher Columbus – The Hispanic Council

www.hispaniccouncil.org

A Defense of Christopher Columbus on Columbus Day | National Review

The great Genoese explorer was not a perfect man, but his legacy has been unfairly tarnished by his revisionist critics.

www.nationalreview.com

Christopher Columbus and Fake History

At the peak of the Ku Klux Klan’s popularity, the Knights of Columbus stood as its most vigorous opponent

www.kofc.org

Don’t Defend Columbus—Celebrate Him

After a summer of assaults on Christopher Columbus’s legacy, it’s a small miracle that Columbus Day is still hanging on as a federal holiday. Columbus has been under attack since at least 1980, when Howard Zinn vilified him in his anti-American polemic A People’s History of the United States...

www.city-journal.org

Fr. Hardon Archives - In Defense of Christopher Columbus the Catholic - #3

There are few great men in history who do not have both their ardent admirers and their virulent traducers. Christopher Columbus is no exception. But there is one main difference in the case of Columbus. We can identify his critics by their religious affiliation or ideology.

www.therealpresence.org

Why Columbus Day Is Worth Defending and Celebrating

Seen from the big picture, Columbus Day is worth keeping and honoring for the simple reason that it celebrates beliefs and qualities of character that are foundational to America. It could even be…

www.discovery.org

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, look, it's our resident Mao-loving, Stalin-whitewashing Marxist crawling out of his hole to spew more of his hateful, profanity-laced drivel.

Oh,, look, it's a member of a deranged cult started by a kiddie diddler who claimed God cursed Native Americans with dark skin, so that's why it was okay to kill them and take their land.

Fuck off, Mormon.

As many here have noted, this guy gets most of his information on historical issues from Wikipedia.

And a history degree from UIC. You know, where they don't teach you crazy stuff like the Japanese were justified in bombing Pearl Harbor, the Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad, and OJ was innocent. Oh, yeah, and JFK was killed by the Roswell aliens or something. (Read his website, it's chock full of crazy.)

You know who one of the first groups were to speak out against Columbus Day? The Ku Klux Klan. Because they hated Catholics.

So what? Today White Catholics are just as awful as other white people, and shame on us. It doesn't take away from the fact that Columbus unleashed a humanitarian disaster that devastated THREE continents (the Americas and Africa.)

Here are some factual defenses of Columbus:

Ho-hum, more of your crazy?

 

[Zebra]

On balance, all things considered, I think Columbus was good.

all things ….

 

[Zebra]

The one who deserves great credit is Columbus' public relations director. People had been traveling to, into and around America for thousands of years when Columbus stumbled into an Island in the Gulf of Mexico and suddenly Columbus discovered America.

Waldseemüller also deserves credit…

You know the name?

 

[boevans]

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

He was a human of his age.

Brutal.

 

[braalian]

That's mostly later, and mostly about blacks.

It was inevitable. And the worst stuff was done by southern Europeans, not the usual English/Nordic bugaboos of the left.

not based on demographics.

In the parts of the Americas colonized by the English/Germanic settlers, almost no Native Americans remain, a tiny percent of North America

In most of the parts colonized by Spain/Portugal, a majority of the population has mixed native/European ancestry

That suggests to me that one group mixed with the natives and one group simply annihilated them

 

[Picaro]

Meh, screw the assorted cannibals and savages, they were going nowhere.

As for Columbus, his voyages were very timely, given the effects of the Little Ice Age was having on Europe. Now there was an outlet for the victims of the enclosure movement, failing crop yields, the industrial revolution, and the constant wars produced by the instability. With poverty rates so high many now had a chance to own land and develop resources and prosper, and religious dissenters had a refuge. 'native Americans' prospered as well, first via the fur trade and new goods to acquire, and those with enough brain cells to assimilate and participate in this good fortune. This was repeated on a much larger scale in the latter 19th and early 20th Century. True, it could have been regulated better, but many prospered anyway.

I laugh at the sniveling over the buffalo being wiped out; they were replaced by good grades of beef cattle, sheep, and horses, but many lazy feral scavengers were too stupid to adapt to meat animals far better than buffalo. They preferred stealing and murder for a living, and eventually got hunted down and bitch slapped. Good riddance.

Some people ended up doing a lot of good without doing so on purpose or living long enough to see the results of their activities.

 

[Picaro]

so next question....so why dont we have a Vespucci day instead of Columbus?..Columbus not only thought this was Asia he never set foot on US shores.....

Columbus was more important. His voyages set off a land rush at a particular time in European history. Italians were busy fighting over who was going to get rich from kissing the Ottoman Empire's ass and the banker Borgias were devoted to looting the peasants and assassinating each other and the other bankers. They effectively handed Spain the 'New World' while they plundered Europe.

Example:

Pope Alexander VI - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meet the real father of the Protestant Reformation and the settlers of North America.

 

[Picaro]

Columbus was a man of his time, was extraordinarily persistent in his campaign to get funding for an expedition to the Far East, and succeeded greatly in his failure to do that. It is entirely appropriate that the current people of the America's celebrate him and his accomplishments, an obvious fact, accepted for hundreds of years, that today's Leftists reject out of ignorance.

But the important thing to note is that the people and the cultures of the America's were doomed. It didn't really matter if Columbus got here first, the English, the Portuguese, or the Chinese. The indigenous people of the America's were thousands of years behind the more advance societies on earth, and the indigenous societies were destined to be defeated, one way or another. In fact, if you want to play mind games, if nobody had "discovered" America, they would STILL be living as primitives in a hunter-gatherer mode today because even if one "Injun" invented something useful, there was no good way of retaining that and passing it on, other than word of mouth. Consider, they had...

• No written language, and nothing to write it on, even if they did,
• No domesticated animals that could do work (horses were introduced by the Spaniards),
• No metallurgy, and hence no material that could be made into a durable blade, or a useful shield or projectile,
• Nothing resembling gun powder; nothing explosive,
• Not invented THE WHEEL yet,
• No mortar, which is essential in making multi-story buildings,
• No real medicine or surgery,
• No way of making BOARDS; they just looked for trees and branches of useful size and shape and bound them together, hence their water craft were all small and extremely limited in their use,
• No concept of the earth that was consistent with sea travel beyond line of sight.

Their religions were primitive and destructive of human advancement. They practiced human sacrifice, cannibalism, slavery, gross exploitation of women & children. Wars and battles were a constant, with the winners taking not only territory, but women and children. Defeated armies were often just slain en masse.

Even today, their refusal to simply assimilate into the large society holds them back, and they are apparently too stupid, collectively, to see it.

lol the height of native 'civilization' was the Aztecs. Mass murder and mass cannibalism was their 'culture'. We're supposed to mourn them or something, cuz 'racism'.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Aztec capitol was larger and more clean than any European city in 1520.

Azteca was as brutal as Europeans in their daily lives, yes.

State execution of religious dissenters was a form of mass murder. European warriors often as a small piece of their defeated enemy to take his courage. Both practiced slavery.

You think man en masse can be more moral and noble than other human societies. Who and where?

 

[boevans]

The English were brutal toward native groups. American colonials were worse.