Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're entitled to your opinion and there are certainly some good arguments to be made in support of it. Even so, the Constitution doesn't permit it and your support of it with the current state of the Constitution means you are neither a constitutionalist nor a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

Like Handgun Control, Inc (HCI), you're a gun controller and support violations of the Constitution and infringements on the right to keep and bear arms. The only difference between you and them is in which gun control measures you support.

Then do you also support states removing the right to vote for a convicted felon?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I came home sick, very sick, one day from work and forgot to lock my car. In the morning, I found my handgun had been stolen. Was it carelessness? August West might or others might say so. When people are sick they're not working or thinking to capacity. Still, it was the fault of the thief who stole the gun.

I called the local police and they didn't want to even take a report. When I insisted, they agreed I could go to the station and fill out a report.

The only time I take my gun is when I'm traveling at night, or need to go downtown. My sister is a great and generous cook and holds all the family doings. When I get home, I have a ton of food to take upstairs and perhaps some gifts on my birthday or Christmas. It's dark, it's freezing or snowing outside half the time, and I try to make it a one trip deal.

When I get in the house and realize I forgot my gun because my focus was on all the stuff I had to take inside. I'm not going back out there to get it. My gun is in the console, in a locked car, in a locked garage. I'll get it in the morning the next day.

Now if somebody breaks into my garage, and then into my car, finds the gun and uses it to rob a store or shoot and kill a gang member, I shouldn't be held responsible.

 

[woodwork201]

Then do you also support states removing the right to vote for a convicted felon?

I don't have a strong opinion on whether felons should or should not be allowed to vote but the Constitution allows for the restriction:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

 

[woodwork201]

I came home sick, very sick, one day from work and forgot to lock my car. In the morning, I found my handgun had been stolen. Was it carelessness? August West might or others might say so. When people are sick they're not working or thinking to capacity. Still, it was the fault of the thief who stole the gun.

I called the local police and they didn't want to even take a report. When I insisted, they agreed I could go to the station and fill out a report.

The only time I take my gun is when I'm traveling at night, or need to go downtown. My sister is a great and generous cook and holds all the family doings. When I get home, I have a ton of food to take upstairs and perhaps some gifts on my birthday or Christmas. It's dark, it's freezing or snowing outside half the time, and I try to make it a one trip deal.

When I get in the house and realize I forgot my gun because my focus was on all the stuff I had to take inside. I'm not going back out there to get it. My gun is in the console, in a locked car, in a locked garage. I'll get it in the morning the next day.

Now if somebody breaks into my garage, and then into my car, finds the gun and uses it to rob a store or shoot and kill a gang member, I shouldn't be held responsible.

My carry guns include an S&W M&P in .40 or a Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP. Those go in the house at night. I keep a Taurus revolver with a couple speed clips and an AR-15 pistol in the truck at all times, allowing for the fact that they might get stolen and I'm prepared to accept the loss. I often travel a few hundred miles in a day going through multiple cities and I need to make sure I have the best chance possible of getting home. I can't keep bad guys from doing bad guy stuff.

 

[August West]

Why does a gun need to be left in the car overnight? Do they not know that locked cars get broken into every day?

So do homes. So do gunshops.

Homeowners can use their guns to shoot an intruder. Can the car shoot the gun to protect itself? Gun shop owners have a high level of concern for the merchandise and tend to keep their stuff secure. I`ve heard that they actually have cameras and stuff!

 

[Batcat]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

Superiority of firepower. At least parody of firepower. That's why. That's more explanation than you're entitled to.

Why do you need such "firepower"? I am entitled to an explanation because I live in this country and guns are designed to be pointed at other people.

“Guns are designed to be pointed at other people.”

WRONG!

The only time you should ever point a firearm at someone is when they are attacking you or someone else with the intention of putting their victim in a hospital or six feet under.

View attachment 475278

Guns have a lot of their deterrent effect by simply being present, or by the mere possibility that they MIGHT be present. This is why mass shootings invariably take place in "gun free zones".

I have had firearms pointed at me four times in my life. It’s an experience you don’t forget. Three handguns and a shotgun.

 

[woodwork201]

Why does a gun need to be left in the car overnight? Do they not know that locked cars get broken into every day?

So do homes. So do gunshops.

Homeowners can use their guns to shoot an intruder. Can the car shoot the gun to protect itself? Gun shop owners have a high level of concern for the merchandise and tend to keep their stuff secure. I`ve heard that they actually have cameras and stuff!

Homeowners can shoot intruders but car owners can't? What a stupid idea that you compare property to humans instead of property to property or humans to humans. Houses can't shoot intruders either.

Sometimes homeowners are home; sometimes they are not. Sometimes car owners are in the car; sometimes they are not. Sometimes gun shop owners are in the shop; sometimes they are not.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

View attachment 475284

If it's not being used to commit a crime it's none of your business.

*****SMILE*****

And it almost never is.


Here is an indication of how lawful gun owners are.

CCW Permit Holders Charged/Convicted

State	Year	Crime	Charged or Convicted	% of Total Convictions	Out of Total Violent Crimes
Louisianna	2016	Any Felony	16	0.0092
	2015	Any Felony	19	0.0123	25,208
	2014	Any Felony	15	0.0109	23,983
Michigan	2016	Aggravated Assault	17	0.003
	2015	Aggravated Assault	11	0.002
	2016	Violent Crime	22	0.053	41,231
	2015	Violent Crime	18	0.00352	42,348
Minnesota	2015	Any Assault	0	0	7,094
	2014	Any Assault	0	0
	2013	Any Assault	0	0
	2012	Any Assault	0	0
	2011	Any Assault	0	0
	2010	Any Assault	0	0
Oregon	2016	Any Felony	19	0.0074
Oklahoma	2016	Any Felony	20	0.0071
	2015	Any Felony	16	0.0062	16,506
	2014	Any Felony	15	0.0069
	2013	Any Felony	15	0.0078
	2012	Any Felony	10	? Unknown due to no permit data
Tennessee	2016	Any Assault	0
	2015	Any Assault	0		40,400
	2016	Any Felony	29	0.0049
	2015	Any Felony	31	0.0061
Texas	2016	Aggravated Assault	8	0.00067
	2015	Aggravated Assault	10	0.0011	67,727

The percentage of total convictions indicates how many concealed carry permit holders account for the crime compared to the general population. As an example if we look at Texas in 2015 you will see that just 0.0011 of permit holders accounted for the crime of aggravated assault.

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Crime Statistics (updated)

Check out the concealed carry permit holders crime statistics? We can tell you how many CCW permit holders have committed crimes in seven states.

www.gunstocarry.com

 

[freyasman]

And what the hell are you supposed to do if you have more than one assailant? Morph into Annie Oakley and take them all out with one shot each? Yeah, that'll happen.

They are just puppets. Saying that less capacity magazines will do anything about crime in our country is like saying if we made beer with .01% less alcohol, that will stop drunk driving.

People like him never shot a gun in their lives and join in on a conversation that has a lot of gun owners and shooters, then make idiotic remarks like that trying to convince us they know what they are talking about.

But you know, I'm the kind of guy that believes in compromise. If the Democrats really believe that smaller magazines will solve all our gun problems, sign a contract with Republicans that states after we mandate all these smaller magazines, nobody will ever bring up a gun issue again as long as there's a Democrat party, and I'll support it.

I gotta say, I'm with Freya on this: you could get Democrats to sign that deal in blood, and I STILL wouldn't trust them to leave it alone. Also, I'm not even remotely willing to leave even one small aspect of my decisions on protecting myself up to them. My safety is not an issue to be decided by committee, because I'M the only one who's going to have to live with the results.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, or a hunter, or any of those other things. My perspective is that of a woman who once had her life threatened by a murderer on a dark street, with no help anywhere in sight, and got away only by the grace of God. I don't have any of the fancy stats, or encyclopedic knowledge of various types, or categorical memorization of laws in different states. I know how to put a bullet where I aim it. I also know this: I will never have to depend on only the grace of God to get away safely ever, ever again. And it's not up for compromise.

Guns are good, but don't forget that nothing says; "Get your hands off me!!" like a face full of pepper spray and a shank to the scrotum.

You can't put a tourniquet on the taint.

I prefer not letting attackers get close enough to me for pepper spray and shanking, if at all possible.

I'd prefer it if my wife and my girlfriend could start getting along, but we can't always get what we want, can we?

I'm just suggesting adding tools to the toolbox, is all.

Creepology: Self-defense for your social life by Anna Valdiserri (goodreads.com)
This is a good read as well.

 

[freyasman]

It's gun control. Criminals are only controlled when in jail or prison. You pretend to be pro-gun, and support the 2nd Amendment but you're clearly anti-2nd-Amendment. If the old gun laws work then certainly more must work. All we need to do is create them and enforce them - and call it criminal control.

Read the links.

Project exile put criminals in federal prisons for breaking federal gun laws. There were no new gun laws passed.

And you're a ******* idiot if you think I am not pro 2nd amendment. And FYI I have not once supported new gun laws because the federal gun laws we already have on the books are adequate.

The Federal gun laws we have on the books are gun control and in violation of the 2nd Amendment and you openly support them and you've just stated that gun control, if enforced, works. You're a gun controller. Oh, sure, you're pro-gun, but you're certainly NOT pro-2nd-Amendment. You're an idiot if you think I'm going to fall for your lies.

You support gun control. In fact, you want existing gun control enforced. That you haven't yet openly supported new infringements on the right to keep and bear arms does not, in any way, alter the fact that you openly admit that you support the current infringements on the right to keep and bear arms.

If you don't see the hypocrisy in what you're saying, if you can't see that, in your heart, you support gun control, you're the idiot. You support the gun control you like and object to the controls you don't like. You can't have it both ways, though, the 2nd Amendment doesn't allow for some infringements. You're a gun controller; you're just in denial.

I have no problem denying felons their right to bear arms. I have no problem denying people who obtain guns via illegal means their right to bear arms.

With rights come responsibilities.

You might want every excon to be able to buy a gun as he walks out of the door of prison I think it's a bad idea.

The ex con only needs to open up a few car doors and he`ll have a gun. 12 irresponsible gun owners gave guns to criminals in just one week in Nashville.
Metro Police: 12 guns stolen from vehicles last week | News | wsmv.com

"Gave"???

 

[freyasman]

The ex con only needs to open up a few car doors and he`ll have a gun. 12 irresponsible gun owners gave guns to criminals in just one week in Nashville.
Metro Police: 12 guns stolen from vehicles last week | News | wsmv.com

What the story says is that 5 of the guns stolen were in unlocked cars. That means the other 7 were locked and broken into. Those people no more "gave a felon" their gun than they did if the felon broke into their homes and stole jewelry and money.

While I admit those with the unlocked cars were not caring and pretty irresponsible, I say we change the law to a 15 year minimum prison sentence for each gun a person steals whether the car is locked or not. That's how you solve the problem; not by punishing the victim.

Why does a gun need to be left in the car overnight? Do they not know that locked cars get broken into every day?

It was Nashville, right?
They were probably going clubbing, it's a live music town. You can't take your guns into the clubs, so you leave it in the car.

That's what I used to do when I was there.

 

[freyasman]

Why does a gun need to be left in the car overnight? Do they not know that locked cars get broken into every day?

When you carry a gun, it's easy to do. At first you are extremely conscious of it, but after a while it gets to be like anything else. People lock themselves out of their house and car all the time. You leave home forgetting your wallet or phone and have to turn back. After a while it just becomes and unconscious action like anything else.

I came home sick, very sick, one day from work and forgot to lock my car. In the morning, I found my handgun had been stolen. Was it carelessness? August West might or others might say so. When people are sick they're not working or thinking to capacity. Still, it was the fault of the thief who stole the gun.

I called the local police and they didn't want to even take a report. When I insisted, they agreed I could go to the station and fill out a report.

A lot of the anti-gun crowd think people should face prosecution for failing to report that their guns have been stolen. But the truth is, most people don't bother because they know damn good and well that doing so is a waste of time.
The cops aren't going to recover it, and if by some chance they do, they only rarely ever tell you..... it's most likely to end up in some cop's collection.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A lot of the anti-gun crowd think people should face prosecution for failing to report that their guns have been stolen. But the truth is, most people don't bother because they know damn good and well that doing so is a waste of time.
The cops aren't going to recover it, and if by some chance they do, they only rarely ever tell you..... it's most likely to end up in some cop's collection.

They may recover it, you never know. The more important thing however is that they know it was stolen in the event it becomes a murder weapon. They will trace the weapon back to whoever it is they have as the owner.

 

[freyasman]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

Superiority of firepower. At least parody of firepower. That's why. That's more explanation than you're entitled to.

Why do you need such "firepower"? I am entitled to an explanation because I live in this country and guns are designed to be pointed at other people.

“Guns are designed to be pointed at other people.”

WRONG!

The only time you should ever point a firearm at someone is when they are attacking you or someone else with the intention of putting their victim in a hospital or six feet under.

View attachment 475278

Guns have a lot of their deterrent effect by simply being present, or by the mere possibility that they MIGHT be present. This is why mass shootings invariably take place in "gun free zones".

I have had firearms pointed at me four times in my life. It’s an experience you don’t forget. Three handguns and a shotgun.

I've had that happen to me a lot.
Thing is, on more than one occasion, my read on the person doing it convinced me that person had no intent to shoot me, they were just posturing. That they weren't already firing at me when I saw them was an indicator as well. So, I wasn't too worried about them.

OTOH, I have had a couple or 3 encounters with guys whose intent to kill me was broadcast so loud and clear in their face and demeanor that I repositioned myself to make it harder for them to reach me, and checked all my tools. One of these was an inmate wearing a waist chain, cuffs, and leg shackles and he still made my neck hair rise.

People are dangerous; guns are just tools.
In addition, many people are dangerous as ****, as in people that have stacked bodies to the ceiling, but if they show no intent to do me or mine harm, they are not a concern to me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Homeowners can shoot intruders but car owners can't? What a stupid idea that you compare property to humans instead of property to property or humans to humans. Houses can't shoot intruders either.

In my state they extended the Castle Doctrine to our vehicles. If you are licensed and in your vehicle and somebody breaks in, it's no different than somebody breaking into your home. Shoot to kill.

 

[freyasman]

A lot of the anti-gun crowd think people should face prosecution for failing to report that their guns have been stolen. But the truth is, most people don't bother because they know damn good and well that doing so is a waste of time.
The cops aren't going to recover it, and if by some chance they do, they only rarely ever tell you..... it's most likely to end up in some cop's collection.

They may recover it, you never know. The more important thing however is that they know it was stolen in the event it becomes a murder weapon. They will trace the weapon back to whoever it is they have as the owner.

I have never once seen that happen.

I have never met or even heard of, a single gun owner being visited by LE about a gun stolen from them and used in a crime, unless it was to tell them they found his gun, and no, he can't have it back for at least a few more years because it's evidence.

 

[JoeB131]

Illegal gun possession is a federal crime punishable by a 5 year sentence in federal prison.

When that law is enforced, crime rates drop, the murder rate drops but you don't want to enforce that law. Why is that?

Because I don't think that the Prison-Industrial Complex works.

If he has an illegal gun, you take away his gun. Period. Full ******* stop.

The other problem I have with these laws is that when they are 'enforced", it's usually against poor people and people of color.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because I don't think that the Prison-Industrial Complex works.

If he has an illegal gun, you take away his gun. Period. Full ******* stop.

The other problem I have with these laws is that when they are 'enforced", it's usually against poor people and people of color.

Maybe because it's poor people of color mostly breaking those laws?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have never once seen that happen.

I have never met or even heard of, a single gun owner being visited by LE about a gun stolen from them and used in a crime, unless it was to tell them they found his gun, and no, he can't have it back for at least a few more years because it's evidence.

Every year, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives conducts hundreds of thousands of gun traces at the request of law enforcement officials. The purpose of a trace is to identify the custody of a firearm through the supply chain, from manufacturer to dealer to buyer.

But while requesting a trace is a standard part of police work, the failed investigation into Richardson’s killing is an example of a common way they fall short. Because firearms can legally change hands on the secondary market without a paper trail, it is sometimes impossible for police to track a gun to its final handler.

How a Gun Trace Works

Tracking a firearm's chain of custody is standard operating procedure for law enforcement — but the agency responsible for handling requests frequently can't answer essential questions.

www.thetrace.org

 

[freyasman]

I have never once seen that happen.

I have never met or even heard of, a single gun owner being visited by LE about a gun stolen from them and used in a crime, unless it was to tell them they found his gun, and no, he can't have it back for at least a few more years because it's evidence.

Every year, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives conducts hundreds of thousands of gun traces at the request of law enforcement officials. The purpose of a trace is to identify the custody of a firearm through the supply chain, from manufacturer to dealer to buyer.

But while requesting a trace is a standard part of police work, the failed investigation into Richardson’s killing is an example of a common way they fall short. Because firearms can legally change hands on the secondary market without a paper trail, it is sometimes impossible for police to track a gun to its final handler.

How a Gun Trace Works

Tracking a firearm's chain of custody is standard operating procedure for law enforcement — but the agency responsible for handling requests frequently can't answer essential questions.

www.thetrace.org

But have you ever heard of them questioning the original owner about some shooting it was used in?
I haven't.