Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

[daveman]

Apples and oranges. If a bartender knowingly serves you enough times to allow you to get drunk, he or she is liable because they participated in your irresponsible actions. Gun manufacturers only sell to licensed gun dealers, and those dealers order firearms based on consumer demand. The manufacturers have no idea who will be buying their products, and the licensed dealer has no idea of how their customers will use the product they buy from them, no different than the sales person at the dealership you buy an automobile from.

Given the deadly potential of guns, that isn't good enough.

Here's the real problem. If there was legal liability, gun manufacturers would change how they do business. they would be the ones performing REAL background checks, instead of selling to every crazy who wants a gun hoping to scare the straights into wanting them, too.

Out of curiosity. What is a Real Background Check?

One that prohibits the sale of guns to everyone.

 

[Flash]

It's an easy fix.

Just require all gun sales be subject to a BG check.

No one should have an issue with that.

I would agree, if you ACTUALLY did background checks.

The guy in Boulder- Had a long history of mental illness and was convicted of assault in 2018. Was still able to get a gun.

The guy in Atlanta- had a history of mental illness.

Why are you so confused about background checks?

1. They are useless. Past behavior is no guarantee of future behavior. Just look at Obama's little Muslim terrorist in Bolder. He passed a NICS check six days before his terrorism.

2. If you want a gun to do an evil deed a background check will not stop you from getting one.

3. Background checks circumvents the Bill of Rights. If you have to get permission from the government to enjoy a right guaranteed to you under the Bill of Rights then it is not really a right after all, is it? The Bill of Rights isn't worth the parchment it is written on in that case, is it?

 

[daveman]

It's an easy fix.

Just require all gun sales be subject to a BG check.

No one should have an issue with that.

I would agree, if you ACTUALLY did background checks.

The guy in Boulder- Had a long history of mental illness and was convicted of assault in 2018. Was still able to get a gun.

The guy in Atlanta- had a history of mental illness.

Why are you so confused about background checks?

1. They are useless. Past behavior is no guarantee of future behavior. Just look at Obama's little Muslim terrorist in Bolder. He passed a NICS check six days before his terrorism.

2. If you want a gun to do an evil deed a background check will not stop you from getting one.

3. Background checks circumvents the Bill of Rights. If you have to get permission from the government to enjoy a right guaranteed to you under the Bill of Rights then it is not really a right after all, is it? The Bill of Rights isn't worth the parchment it is written on in that case, is it?

Bold of you to assume Iosef gives a shit about the Constitituion.

He doesn't. He wants it destroyed.

 

[2aguy]

Apples and oranges. If a bartender knowingly serves you enough times to allow you to get drunk, he or she is liable because they participated in your irresponsible actions. Gun manufacturers only sell to licensed gun dealers, and those dealers order firearms based on consumer demand. The manufacturers have no idea who will be buying their products, and the licensed dealer has no idea of how their customers will use the product they buy from them, no different than the sales person at the dealership you buy an automobile from.

Given the deadly potential of guns, that isn't good enough.

Here's the real problem. If there was legal liability, gun manufacturers would change how they do business. they would be the ones performing REAL background checks, instead of selling to every crazy who wants a gun hoping to scare the straights into wanting them, too.

Out of curiosity. What is a Real Background Check?

According to joe, a real background check is any background check that makes it impossible for people to buy, own or carry guns.......

I will skip the veto power of neighbors for the moment. I have a question though. How do we pay for what is in essence a Top Secret Background Investigation on any and all Gun Buyers? Half of the current cops would be tied up in background investigations.

It isn't about actually doing this....they don't do it now with guys on their watch lists......

The demand for universal background checks is a trojan horse.....for gun registration.

First, they demand universal background checks....these will not stop criminals from getting guns, and mass public shooters will pass them because they have no criminal record...

Sooooo...when criminals still get guns and mass shooters are still getting guns?

They will come back and say....gee...you know what....for these universal background checks to work, we really need gun registration...you know, to know who owns the guns in the first place so that we will know if a background check was done.........

Then the same campaigns will start....you will see fake polls that show uninformed Americans "Want universal background checks to work....so register just weapons of war....." and so on....

The goal is gun registration...they know that in all the countries that banned and confiscated guns, they first had to register those guns so they couldn't be hidden....

 

[2aguy]

It's an easy fix.

Just require all gun sales be subject to a BG check.

No one should have an issue with that.

I would agree, if you ACTUALLY did background checks.

The guy in Boulder- Had a long history of mental illness and was convicted of assault in 2018. Was still able to get a gun.

The guy in Atlanta- had a history of mental illness.

And again....Pulse Nightclub shooter had

--background check for his security job

--background for each gun he bought

--Complete, FBI background investigation when they thought he might be a terrorist

--3 interviews with trained FBI interrogators

--an undercover approach by trained FBI agents trying to find out if he was a terrorist..


He passed each one....you dumb ass........

Parkland Shooter.....?

--committed multiple felonies on school grounds.....was not arrested because of obama's "Promise Program." They didn't want to give him a criminal record....a criminal record which would have prevented him from getting the gun.

--he had more than 30 interactions with the police at home for domestic incidents...

And he had a clean record for the background check..

You dumb ass....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Parkland Shooter.....?

--committed multiple felonies on school grounds.....was not arrested because of obama's "Promise Program." They didn't want to give him a criminal record....a criminal record which would have prevented him from getting the gun.

--he had more than 30 interactions with the police at home for domestic incidents...

And he had a clean record for the background check..

You dumb ass....

If I remember correctly, the FBI also failed to give dirt on this kid to the fed government that might have restricted his ability to purchase firearms.

 

[SavannahMann]

I will skip the veto power of neighbors for the moment. I have a question though. How do we pay for what is in essence a Top Secret Background Investigation on any and all Gun Buyers? Half of the current cops would be tied up in background investigations.

Why would that be a bad thing. The whole reason why we had riots all last summer was too many guys who shouldn't be cops got those jobs and kept shooting black people until they got fed up with it.

The problems with police are accountability. For generations police have gotten away with doing pretty much whatever they want. And for generations the people, the population has encouraged and endorsed this. If bad guys get tuned up on the way to jail? Well they shouldn’t have been bad.

Regular People who commit gun crimes are held accountable by comparison.

But think about this for a moment. The same cops who have shown a clear bias against minorities will be the ones conducting these investigations to determine if minorities should be allowed to buy guns. The same cops who lie in one case out of five will be investigating minorities to decide if they should be allowed to get a gun.

I wonder if you had considered that. The same cops who are abusing people would be given more authority and opportunity to abuse people by denying them their civil rights.

The answer to the problems we are having is changes in policy and accountability. Not more unchecked authority and even less accountability.

 

[SavannahMann]

Apples and oranges. If a bartender knowingly serves you enough times to allow you to get drunk, he or she is liable because they participated in your irresponsible actions. Gun manufacturers only sell to licensed gun dealers, and those dealers order firearms based on consumer demand. The manufacturers have no idea who will be buying their products, and the licensed dealer has no idea of how their customers will use the product they buy from them, no different than the sales person at the dealership you buy an automobile from.

Given the deadly potential of guns, that isn't good enough.

Here's the real problem. If there was legal liability, gun manufacturers would change how they do business. they would be the ones performing REAL background checks, instead of selling to every crazy who wants a gun hoping to scare the straights into wanting them, too.

Out of curiosity. What is a Real Background Check?

According to joe, a real background check is any background check that makes it impossible for people to buy, own or carry guns.......

I will skip the veto power of neighbors for the moment. I have a question though. How do we pay for what is in essence a Top Secret Background Investigation on any and all Gun Buyers? Half of the current cops would be tied up in background investigations.

It isn't about actually doing this....they don't do it now with guys on their watch lists......

The demand for universal background checks is a trojan horse.....for gun registration.

First, they demand universal background checks....these will not stop criminals from getting guns, and mass public shooters will pass them because they have no criminal record...

Sooooo...when criminals still get guns and mass shooters are still getting guns?

They will come back and say....gee...you know what....for these universal background checks to work, we really need gun registration...you know, to know who owns the guns in the first place so that we will know if a background check was done.........

Then the same campaigns will start....you will see fake polls that show uninformed Americans "Want universal background checks to work....so register just weapons of war....." and so on....

The goal is gun registration...they know that in all the countries that banned and confiscated guns, they first had to register those guns so they couldn't be hidden....

We already have gun registration. Look. Let’s be honest. Let’s say they recover a gun at the scene of a crime. A Glock. They ask Glock who got the gun. Glock points at the distributor. The Distributor points at the FFL dealer. The Dealer points at Joe Blow. He even shows the confirmation number of the approval from the background check. Joe Blow has to show what he did with the gun.

They track the gun through every step. It takes a few hours at most. If the Feds want to know about AR’s it would take time but in no more than a couple months they would have a list of every AR manufactured for more than twenty years. Unless the FFL’s want to go to prison for failing to maintain their records that is.

If Joe Blow had the Glock stolen, he had better have a report on file.

Unless the “buyer” is dead there is a chain of proverbial custody for the weapon. That chain of custody is easily determined.

The two morons who shot up Columbine. They tracked the guns and arrested the guy who sold them to the kids. Kyle Rittenhouse saw the guy who sold him the rifle arrested.

Once the weapons had serial numbers there is a chain of custody. I refuse to believe that there is no number anywhere on the 80% receivers. There is something. A lot number. Something to identify it.

I watched a documentary on spying techniques. They flash read your phone and credit card smart chips. They instal microchips in credit cards to track people and even monitor electronic communication around them.

Just as the FISA court made Black Bag Jobs legal the official Registration would make what the Feds are doing right now legal. They already have it mate. Resisting something after it is established is nonsense. We have to prevent them from doing what they’re already doing. Or something.

 

[Blues Man]

It's an easy fix.

Just require all gun sales be subject to a BG check.

No one should have an issue with that.

I would agree, if you ACTUALLY did background checks.

The guy in Boulder- Had a long history of mental illness and was convicted of assault in 2018. Was still able to get a gun.

The guy in Atlanta- had a history of mental illness.

A person must be adjudicated to be mentally ill. Not just seeing a shrink or taking antidepressants

And any FFL dealer can only work with the information the federal government provides so the fault is not with the licensed gun dealer.

 

[Blues Man]

it's not impossible.

In fact anyone can contact a FFL in their area to do a background check for the purpose of a gun sale.

I obey our federal gun laws and if I was to sell a gun to a person I didn't know I would have a BG check done.

But I'm more likely to trade a gun in at a gun store than I am to sell it on Craigs list

That's nice. But some asshole out there is selling them on Craig's List... and that's the problem.

It's an easy fix.

Just require all gun sales be subject to a BG check.

No one should have an issue with that.

But even more important is the enforcement of our federal gun laws already on the books.

I do.


I don't have to prove I am not a felon to anyone before I exercise fundamental rights. The only thing the government or it's agents are allowed to presume about anyone, is that they are citizens in good standing and innocent of all wrong doing, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.

That's what presumption of innocence means.

That presumption of innocence only applies to those awaiting trial for a crime.

I don't have a problem with convicted felons not being able to own firearms. And it's the person selling guns that should be concerned if he is selling to a person who is legally prohibited from owning firearms.

It's the main reason I don't sell guns to people or buy guns from anyone other than a licensed dealer.

 

[2aguy]

I will skip the veto power of neighbors for the moment. I have a question though. How do we pay for what is in essence a Top Secret Background Investigation on any and all Gun Buyers? Half of the current cops would be tied up in background investigations.

Why would that be a bad thing. The whole reason why we had riots all last summer was too many guys who shouldn't be cops got those jobs and kept shooting black people until they got fed up with it.

The problems with police are accountability. For generations police have gotten away with doing pretty much whatever they want. And for generations the people, the population has encouraged and endorsed this. If bad guys get tuned up on the way to jail? Well they shouldn’t have been bad.

Regular People who commit gun crimes are held accountable by comparison.

But think about this for a moment. The same cops who have shown a clear bias against minorities will be the ones conducting these investigations to determine if minorities should be allowed to buy guns. The same cops who lie in one case out of five will be investigating minorities to decide if they should be allowed to get a gun.

I wonder if you had considered that. The same cops who are abusing people would be given more authority and opportunity to abuse people by denying them their civil rights.

The answer to the problems we are having is changes in policy and accountability. Not more unchecked authority and even less accountability.

He doesn't want anyone to have guns......so if the police target minorities he doesn't care.

 

[Flash]

Parkland Shooter.....?

--committed multiple felonies on school grounds.....was not arrested because of obama's "Promise Program." They didn't want to give him a criminal record....a criminal record which would have prevented him from getting the gun.

--he had more than 30 interactions with the police at home for domestic incidents...

And he had a clean record for the background check..

You dumb ass....

If I remember correctly, the FBI also failed to give dirt on this kid to the fed government that might have restricted his ability to purchase firearms.

Well he was a Muslim so we wouldn't want to profile him, would we?

The same government thugs that tried to frame Trump weren't about to finger the Muslim.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

finger the Muslim

 

[JoeB131]

There is no law that states a cop cannot shoot a black person if he or she fears for their safety, the safety of others, or presume their life is on the line.

And that's the problem. It's totally legal if the cop merely says he felt all scared and stuff.

"Hey, that was a 12 year old kid with a toy."
"I was really scared!"

 

[JoeB131]

Why are you so confused about background checks?

1. They are useless. Past behavior is no guarantee of future behavior. Just look at Obama's little Muslim terrorist in Bolder. He passed a NICS check six days before his terrorism.

Because it wasn't a real background check.

Here's how we do a background check.

We just don't see if your name comes up on a database.

We do a check with your family, your friends and your employer and ask, "Do you think Bob should have a gun?"

If they say no. No gun for you.

2. If you want a gun to do an evil deed a background check will not stop you from getting one.

Except it does in Japan, Germany, the UK and every other civilized country that doesn't have an NRA.

3. Background checks circumvents the Bill of Rights. If you have to get permission from the government to enjoy a right guaranteed to you under the Bill of Rights then it is not really a right after all, is it? The Bill of Rights isn't worth the parchment it is written on in that case, is it?

Hey, I'm all for Well-Regulated Militias, I was a member of one for years.

Sorry, man, "A bunch of Slave Raping Assholes couldn't clearly write a militia Amendment" is not a good reason for crazies to have easy access to guns.

 

[JoeB131]

The problems with police are accountability. For generations police have gotten away with doing pretty much whatever they want. And for generations the people, the population has encouraged and endorsed this. If bad guys get tuned up on the way to jail? Well they shouldn’t have been bad.

Regular People who commit gun crimes are held accountable by comparison.

But think about this for a moment. The same cops who have shown a clear bias against minorities will be the ones conducting these investigations to determine if minorities should be allowed to buy guns. The same cops who lie in one case out of five will be investigating minorities to decide if they should be allowed to get a gun.

I wonder if you had considered that. The same cops who are abusing people would be given more authority and opportunity to abuse people by denying them their civil rights.

The answer to the problems we are having is changes in policy and accountability. Not more unchecked authority and even less accountability.

I'm all for cops being held accountable, but most cops are good guys, and most of the time they get it right.

If you want to talk about why cops shoot people so often, it's because they never know if the guy they pull over for a minor traffic violation might be a nut with a gun.

I don't have a problem with a background check being really hard to pass. They should be.

 

[JoeB131]

He doesn't want anyone to have guns......so if the police target minorities he doesn't care.

You guys have pretty much said the cost of you being able to enjoy your fetish is 14,000 murders and 25,000 suicides every year.

That's too high of a cost.

Now, I'm willing to meet you halfway. Is there any reason why you think you can't pass a background check. I'm assuming that you have no criminal record and other than your OCD about guns, no mental issues. Or are you really afraid of what your neighbors would say if someone asked them?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

He doesn't want anyone to have guns......so if the police target minorities he doesn't care.

You guys have pretty much said the cost of you being able to enjoy your fetish is 14,000 murders and 25,000 suicides every year.

That's too high of a cost.

Now, I'm willing to meet you halfway. Is there any reason why you think you can't pass a background check. I'm assuming that you have no criminal record and other than your OCD about guns, no mental issues. Or are you really afraid of what your neighbors would say if someone asked them?

There will be no compromise.

My "gun fetish" (aka constitutional right) has cost NO LIVES.

Go **** yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

There will be no compromise.

My "gun fetish" (aka constitutional right) has cost NO LIVES.

Go **** yourself.

We have 29,000 gun deaths a year.
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses.

Eventually, the majority of us who don't have a gun fetish are going to get pretty tired of the guys who do.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

There will be no compromise.

My "gun fetish" (aka constitutional right) has cost NO LIVES.

Go **** yourself.

We have 29,000 gun deaths a year.
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses.

Eventually, the majority of us who don't have a gun fetish are going to get pretty tired of the guys who do.

Don't give a ****.

There will be a ******* war if you try it. Who do you think will die?