collective punishments

[irosie91]

re ----the genetic study that Aenmity claims "proves" that Palestinians are
"descended" from jews--------I did not read it------I need a citation or link----
I am getting curious -----a kind of perverse need to know just how dim is
Aenmity in reference to an understanding of simple population genetics
----this stuff is not so tough----but there are people in the world---
who cannot be convinced of very simple arithmetic

 

[irosie91]

Oh----"sometimes" I speak "like a genocidal maniac"------;sometimes' is a plural---
indicating that ACCORDING TO YOU I have expressed myself at least more than once
as a genocidal maniac-------so you will have no problem citing at least two examples
of my 'genocidal maniac' expressions ------go for it-----I am eager for your citations

No, that is NOT what I am going to do, irosie. Not a good use of time for me. Just try to moderate your speech please. The pro Palestinians around here never stoop to extremism, but always have extremism attributed to them in order to discredit them unjustly. It should just stop.

ROFLMAO-------good of you to admit you lied in your characteristic dissembling manner
(fumfer, mumble....fumfer flip flop)

 

[MHunterB]

They were settlers!

ON JEWISH OWNED LAND WITH TITLE DEEDS TO BACK IT UP, does this mean that Israel can kidnap Palestinian children who are squatting on Jewish owned land in East jerusalem

You would have to understand how Israel acquired land in Israel and how it acquires it now in the West Bank. Usually it was/is confiscated, turned over to the JNF, and then resold to Jews. So your "legal titles" mean nothing.

Where is the unbiased documentation of that assertion? I don't see any links.

 

[amity1844]

That's your definition of ownership of land?-----by whatever a group decides to call itself? ----
If I decide to call myself Saudia Arabian-----do I own Saudi Arabia? ---in 1948 the only
people called "Palestinians" were jews living in Brtish Mandate Palestine-----muslims
and Christians living there were called----either "arabs or Syrians"----oh---but that was not
21st century----that was 20th century-----so it ----may not count

irosie, you are wasting planet earth's time with that crapola. Back in the late '60s Golda Meir was able to pull it off. Now it would be hard to find a mentally competent denizen of earth who would agree with this far right extremist b.s. A poll was done in Israel, and virtually everyone sampled aqreed that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine. So you are weakening your argument and marginalizing your political stance by continuing to maintain it. Because Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine, and everyone knows it, they have and will one day realize the right to return home. And if there's any doubt, they now have the genetic credentials to prove it.

Khalas. Bikafe.

I'm sure Rosie is flattered to be compared to Golda - but the rest of Hostility's rant is simply an example of how obnoxious one can be without resort to actual profanity.

Hostility is overlooking a small detail about the 'genetics' aspect - for one thing, she's acknowledged she is unqualified to interpret the study's findings. For another, several of us ARE - and we've read the entire discussion and not just the one study. The methodology was flawed, and the sampling as well: it was obviously 'cooked' to suit the POV of those doing the study.

And then there's that little detail of 'self-determination', which looms so large for Hostility. She fantasizes that because there is SOME genetic connection, that the erstwhile Palestinians are somehow 'Jews' and the Law of Return should apply to them.

I don't think outsiders - Jewish or not! - should be dictating to the State of Israel OR the religion of Judaism who is or is not a Jew.

Just how closely most 'Palestinians' may or may not be genetically related to Ashkenazi or Sefardi or Mizrachi Jews is of far less import than this:

The Mandate was divided in '47 and the Jews accepted their portion - while the 'Palestinians' did not, and then five different 'friends of Palestinians' armies attacked.

If the Palestinians want a state, they need to create it on whatever land from '47 remains in their control. They are welcome, as I understand, to negotiate with Israel over exchanges of bits of land to even out borders and make things simpler - AFTER they acknowledge Israel is fully as 'legitimate' as Palestine wishes to be.

Let me clarify for you. In the genetics study, I am relying upon the interpretation of the geneticists who did the study. They are Jewish Israelis of excellent professional reputation with no ax to grind and their work has been received by the genetics community and deemed sound enough to have been written up in numerous professional journals.

Self-determination. The Palestinians are entitled because they are the indigenous people of Palestine. Genetics is merely additional proof against your calumny that they are not.

And my understanding is that their refusal to accept the partition plan does not abrogate their rights in the least. What nation would willingly give up half its territory to an invading force?

As far as the legitimacy of Israel, that has already been acknowledged by all parties to any settlement talks. The remaining parties who DON'T openly acknowledge it almost certainly will once they are brought into the process. But as I outlined in another post, that is a concession. Israel did not have a moral right to establish itself in Palestine, and it sure as heck did not have a moral right to expel the indigenous population.

 

[Sally]

re ----the genetic study that Aenmity claims "proves" that Palestinians are
"descended" from jews--------I did not read it------I need a citation or link----
I am getting curious -----a kind of perverse need to know just how dim is
Aenmity in reference to an understanding of simple population genetics
----this stuff is not so tough----but there are people in the world---
who cannot be convinced of very simple arithmetic

Something like this would not only be in leading journals which Geneticists around the world read to find the latest with conferences being held to discuss the results, but since Israel/Palestine is so much in the news, the media would be reporting on this also. Since no one has heard anything with regard to this, I would just put it down to a bunch of nonsense. I think the viewers realize why Amity and gang don't drop this "genetics" shtick is that they are hoping the readers will get up in arms and demand that Amity's buddies be allowed back into Israel as citizens to eventually take over the land for Islam. I can just imagine how many different forums and websites they are on with the same shtick.

 

[amity1844]

ON JEWISH OWNED LAND WITH TITLE DEEDS TO BACK IT UP, does this mean that Israel can kidnap Palestinian children who are squatting on Jewish owned land in East jerusalem

You would have to understand how Israel acquired land in Israel and how it acquires it now in the West Bank. Usually it was/is confiscated, turned over to the JNF, and then resold to Jews. So your "legal titles" mean nothing.

Where is the unbiased documentation of that assertion? I don't see any links.

You're right. I am working on a post here shortly that will hopefully go into depth (if time permits) but basically seek out Tinmore's thread that features an excellent talk by Ali Abunimah that covers property rights.

Here also are some articles:

Transfer Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_National_Fund

Israel Land Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[amity1844]

At the time, the Mufti of Jerusalem wanted to kill all the Jews in Palestine and the ME. He wanted a deal with your Uncle Adolph.

Agreed, and he had VERY little credibility with Palestinians at the time, and one the PLO was formed they told him he needed to keep his mouth shut. He was totally excluded from all discourse.

Interesting. And of course you have copious documentation of all of that from unimpeachable sources?

Which has already been posted once, I'm not going to hunt it down again and the search function on this website doesn't work for me at least. You might try going to the Wikipedia article on the Grand Mufti and following some of the sources.

 

[irosie91]

irosie, you are wasting planet earth's time with that crapola. Back in the late '60s Golda Meir was able to pull it off. Now it would be hard to find a mentally competent denizen of earth who would agree with this far right extremist b.s. A poll was done in Israel, and virtually everyone sampled aqreed that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine. So you are weakening your argument and marginalizing your political stance by continuing to maintain it. Because Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine, and everyone knows it, they have and will one day realize the right to return home. And if there's any doubt, they now have the genetic credentials to prove it.

Khalas. Bikafe.

I'm sure Rosie is flattered to be compared to Golda - but the rest of Hostility's rant is simply an example of how obnoxious one can be without resort to actual profanity.

Hostility is overlooking a small detail about the 'genetics' aspect - for one thing, she's acknowledged she is unqualified to interpret the study's findings. For another, several of us ARE - and we've read the entire discussion and not just the one study. The methodology was flawed, and the sampling as well: it was obviously 'cooked' to suit the POV of those doing the study.

And then there's that little detail of 'self-determination', which looms so large for Hostility. She fantasizes that because there is SOME genetic connection, that the erstwhile Palestinians are somehow 'Jews' and the Law of Return should apply to them.

I don't think outsiders - Jewish or not! - should be dictating to the State of Israel OR the religion of Judaism who is or is not a Jew.

Just how closely most 'Palestinians' may or may not be genetically related to Ashkenazi or Sefardi or Mizrachi Jews is of far less import than this:

The Mandate was divided in '47 and the Jews accepted their portion - while the 'Palestinians' did not, and then five different 'friends of Palestinians' armies attacked.

If the Palestinians want a state, they need to create it on whatever land from '47 remains in their control. They are welcome, as I understand, to negotiate with Israel over exchanges of bits of land to even out borders and make things simpler - AFTER they acknowledge Israel is fully as 'legitimate' as Palestine wishes to be.

Let me clarify for you. In the genetics study, I am relying upon the interpretation of the geneticists who did the study. They are Jewish Israelis of excellent professional reputation with no ax to grind and their work has been received by the genetics community and deemed sound enough to have been written up in numerous professional journals.

Self-determination. The Palestinians are entitled because they are the indigenous people of Palestine. Genetics is merely additional proof against your calumny that they are not.

And my understanding is that their refusal to accept the partition plan does not abrogate their rights in the least. What nation would willingly give up half its territory to an invading force?

As far as the legitimacy of Israel, that has already been acknowledged by all parties to any settlement talks. The remaining parties who DON'T openly acknowledge it almost certainly will once they are brought into the process. But as I outlined in another post, that is a concession. Israel did not have a moral right to establish itself in Palestine, and it sure as heck did not have a moral right to expel the indigenous population.

Anmity----your statement above-----says NOTHING -----it is ENTIRELY your own
conjecture. How could you possibly know the "excellent reputations" of the geneticists
who published a paper? How could you possibly know their motives or if
they have an "axe to grind" Can you name a few of the famous geneticists
who you imagine agree with you that "Palestinians are descended from 'the ancient
jews' " I got news for you-----the statement itself does not make sense.
You got a link for that paper? is it on the net?------I need a laugh

 

[amity1844]

That's your definition of ownership of land?-----by whatever a group decides to call itself? ----
If I decide to call myself Saudia Arabian-----do I own Saudi Arabia? ---in 1948 the only
people called "Palestinians" were jews living in Brtish Mandate Palestine-----muslims
and Christians living there were called----either "arabs or Syrians"----oh---but that was not
21st century----that was 20th century-----so it ----may not count

irosie, you are wasting planet earth's time with that crapola. Back in the late '60s Golda Meir was able to pull it off. Now it would be hard to find a mentally competent denizen of earth who would agree with this far right extremist b.s. A poll was done in Israel, and virtually everyone sampled aqreed that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine. So you are weakening your argument and marginalizing your political stance by continuing to maintain it. Because Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine, and everyone knows it, they have and will one day realize the right to return home.

a POLL???? you have decided that the route to FACT is by "poll"------a poll
is a measure of the opinion of a group of people at a specific point in time.
My education is in science -----not baseless opinion. I never encountered the "poll"
to which you refer. I do recall other "polls" during my youth ----things
like "should schools be racially segregated" I did not depend upon them even
when I was 14 for "truth" ---------the statement I made regarding who was called
a "PALESTINIAN" was not only true for 1948 ----but for about the 1700 preceding
years---------if the "poll" which you cite did not specify the definition of
"Palestinian"-----then the poll is worthless My husband's government papers---during
his infancy describe him as "Palestinian" he was not even born in Palestine-----he
was a jew who entered british mandate Palestine as an infant -------had he been
a muslim his papers would have described him as 'YEMENI ARAB'

yet Yemeni appears NOWHERE ON HIS PAPERS and certainly not "arab" His ancestors lived in Yemen for AT LEAST 2500 years ------is everyone "indigenous" to some place in the world?
In today's world----what does it mean to be "indigenous" to a part of the earth?.
Is Barack Obama an "indigenous" USA person?

you and your fellow fascists play word games -----your posts, ---specifically, remind me
of Jay Leno's "jaywalks"

I'm just pointing out to you how dead in the water that assertion about Palestinians NOT being the indigenous people is. The overwhelming majority of Israelis acknowledge it even.

 

[MHunterB]

So one rocket means that you inflict as much death and destruction as possible in response, huh?

There is so much LESS hatred directed at Israel for its actions than they deserve, I was totally overwhelmed while living there with how comparatively magnanimous the spirit among Palestinians was. Even little kids, if they would say "I hate Israel. Israel must die" or something equally extreme, when you would ask them what they meant, did they want to kill all those Israelis, they would say "No, but they have to let us live, too." Then I asked where would the Jews go if Israel was destroyed, and they would say "There with us." I think both sides may have been radicalized a bit since then, but to justify maximum response to minimum provocation in every case is tantamount to justification of genocide. Because they have no choice whatsoever but to keep fighting until their rights are fully acknowledged and secured.

RoccoR gave you quotes and facts to support his conclusions, and what do you have?

"There is so much LESS hatred directed at Israel for its actions than they deserve"

What is this obsession you've got with 'feeeeewings', Hostility? There's no logic, no facts in all of your reply. And the anecdotal crapola about how wise and noble the Palestinians all are is 'inadmissible', coming as it does from one who excoriated Hadassah simply for being 'Zionist'. Anecdotes are only as good as the poster's credibility: so far your 'cred' is down in the red, lol.

And Israel's responses HAVE been 'proportional': they haven't carpet-bombed Gaza yet - which is certainly well within their capablilty militarily, and you claim that the rest of the Arab states are in no position to engage Israel militarily. And nobody outside of the Arab states is all that interested: other Muslim-majority nations have their own internal situations with terrorists whose theology is remarkably akin to HAMAS'.

Now why don't you try again, daft bint - and set aside your silly fantasies of passing judgment, and the arrogant stupidity of insinuating I or any other poster here is part of a 'Zionist terrorist organization', in favor of actual facts with documentation. Appeals to emotion are for demagogues: if you want to debate, use facts and logic.

 

[Sally]

irosie, you are wasting planet earth's time with that crapola. Back in the late '60s Golda Meir was able to pull it off. Now it would be hard to find a mentally competent denizen of earth who would agree with this far right extremist b.s. A poll was done in Israel, and virtually everyone sampled aqreed that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine. So you are weakening your argument and marginalizing your political stance by continuing to maintain it. Because Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine, and everyone knows it, they have and will one day realize the right to return home.

a POLL???? you have decided that the route to FACT is by "poll"------a poll
is a measure of the opinion of a group of people at a specific point in time.
My education is in science -----not baseless opinion. I never encountered the "poll"
to which you refer. I do recall other "polls" during my youth ----things
like "should schools be racially segregated" I did not depend upon them even
when I was 14 for "truth" ---------the statement I made regarding who was called
a "PALESTINIAN" was not only true for 1948 ----but for about the 1700 preceding
years---------if the "poll" which you cite did not specify the definition of
"Palestinian"-----then the poll is worthless My husband's government papers---during
his infancy describe him as "Palestinian" he was not even born in Palestine-----he
was a jew who entered british mandate Palestine as an infant -------had he been
a muslim his papers would have described him as 'YEMENI ARAB'

yet Yemeni appears NOWHERE ON HIS PAPERS and certainly not "arab" His ancestors lived in Yemen for AT LEAST 2500 years ------is everyone "indigenous" to some place in the world?
In today's world----what does it mean to be "indigenous" to a part of the earth?.
Is Barack Obama an "indigenous" USA person?

you and your fellow fascists play word games -----your posts, ---specifically, remind me
of Jay Leno's "jaywalks"

I'm just pointing out to you how dead in the water that assertion about Palestinians NOT being the indigenous people is. The overwhelming majority of Israelis acknowledge it even.

They do??? There used to be a poster living in Israel with the screen name of Moshav77. He said his ancestors were living there before Columbus even started off on his journey, and he and other Israelis were quite aware of how the Arabs came from their poor surrounding countries for jobs, just like poor people are coming to the West today. Maybe Amity is actually comatose and doesn't realize what is happening these days or else she lives someplace out in the sticks and never sees any strangers.

 

[amity1844]

That's your definition of ownership of land?-----by whatever a group decides to call itself? ----
If I decide to call myself Saudia Arabian-----do I own Saudi Arabia? ---in 1948 the only
people called "Palestinians" were jews living in Brtish Mandate Palestine-----muslims
and Christians living there were called----either "arabs or Syrians"----oh---but that was not
21st century----that was 20th century-----so it ----may not count

irosie, you are wasting planet earth's time with that crapola. Back in the late '60s Golda Meir was able to pull it off. Now it would be hard to find a mentally competent denizen of earth who would agree with this far right extremist b.s. A poll was done in Israel, and virtually everyone sampled aqreed that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine. So you are weakening your argument and marginalizing your political stance by continuing to maintain it. Because Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine, and everyone knows it, they have and will one day realize the right to return home.

a POLL???? you have decided that the route to FACT is by "poll"------a poll
is a measure of the opinion of a group of people at a specific point in time.
My education is in science -----not baseless opinion. I never encountered the "poll"
to which you refer. I do recall other "polls" during my youth ----things
like "should schools be racially segregated" I did not depend upon them even
when I was 14 for "truth" ---------the statement I made regarding who was called
a "PALESTINIAN" was not only true for 1948 ----but for about the 1700 preceding
years---------if the "poll" which you cite did not specify the definition of
"Palestinian"-----then the poll is worthless My husband's government papers---during
his infancy describe him as "Palestinian" he was not even born in Palestine-----he
was a jew who entered british mandate Palestine as an infant -------had he been
a muslim his papers would have described him as 'YEMENI ARAB'

yet Yemeni appears NOWHERE ON HIS PAPERS and certainly not "arab" His ancestors lived in Yemen for AT LEAST 2500 years ------is everyone "indigenous" to some place in the world?
In today's world----what does it mean to be "indigenous" to a part of the earth?.
Is Barack Obama an "indigenous" USA person?

you and your fellow fascists play word games -----your posts, ---specifically, remind me
of Jay Leno's "jaywalks"

This isn't even coherent so I'm not answering. I can't parse it.

 

[Sally]

irosie, you are wasting planet earth's time with that crapola. Back in the late '60s Golda Meir was able to pull it off. Now it would be hard to find a mentally competent denizen of earth who would agree with this far right extremist b.s. A poll was done in Israel, and virtually everyone sampled aqreed that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine. So you are weakening your argument and marginalizing your political stance by continuing to maintain it. Because Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine, and everyone knows it, they have and will one day realize the right to return home.

a POLL???? you have decided that the route to FACT is by "poll"------a poll
is a measure of the opinion of a group of people at a specific point in time.
My education is in science -----not baseless opinion. I never encountered the "poll"
to which you refer. I do recall other "polls" during my youth ----things
like "should schools be racially segregated" I did not depend upon them even
when I was 14 for "truth" ---------the statement I made regarding who was called
a "PALESTINIAN" was not only true for 1948 ----but for about the 1700 preceding
years---------if the "poll" which you cite did not specify the definition of
"Palestinian"-----then the poll is worthless My husband's government papers---during
his infancy describe him as "Palestinian" he was not even born in Palestine-----he
was a jew who entered british mandate Palestine as an infant -------had he been
a muslim his papers would have described him as 'YEMENI ARAB'

yet Yemeni appears NOWHERE ON HIS PAPERS and certainly not "arab" His ancestors lived in Yemen for AT LEAST 2500 years ------is everyone "indigenous" to some place in the world?
In today's world----what does it mean to be "indigenous" to a part of the earth?.
Is Barack Obama an "indigenous" USA person?

you and your fellow fascists play word games -----your posts, ---specifically, remind me
of Jay Leno's "jaywalks"

This isn't even coherent so I'm not answering. I can't parse it.

This actually means, IRosie, that the cat's got Amity's tongue.

 

[irosie91]

Not at all if you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that individual IDF soldiers pre meditate about killing Palestinian children without a care for their families then take it to the Israeli courts. But if you are claiming that children used as human shields have been killed then take it up with the Palestinian courts as the Palestinians are responsible for the murders. Covered in the Geneva conventions and the apportionment of blame is on the scum using the children as human shields.


That is why you have not read about it because the Palestinians have suppressed the truth, and started BLOOD LIBELS.

On this forum people have complained about settlers' babies being hurt, when they deliberately bring them into a dangerous situation in illegal settlements. That isn't using children as human shields? Can you explain the moral difference?

Only to a person with a sense of morality`
Interpretation often comes down to language.
Since your sense of morality includes the justification
of a grown man---sneaking into a house with the
intention of slitting the throat of an infant any attempt
to explain morality to you is hopeless.

 

[aris2chat]

In 1967/68, the Palestinians updated and formalized their threat against Israel; and essentially declared Jihad and Armed Struggle against Israel with the goal of attempting to control all of the former territory under the British Mandate.

The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advise according to the League of Nations Covenant. It had no territory of its own. Palestine existed separate from the mandate.

So, what was your purpose for using that term?

How many more times does it have to be proven to you that palestines borders were those that included Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. They were defined as such so that the LoN mandates ( note more than one mandate ) could allocate LoN land to the above nations to create them inside Palestine. They did the same with the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS after taking 70% of the original allocation away to placate two arab princes. This led to the arabs realising the LoN was weakened and immediately started to attack the British and the Jews . This led to many Islamic terrorist attacks and finally the Jewish terrorist attacks on valid military targets.
The LoN won the land at the end of WW1 and it was theirs to do with as they wanted, read the relevant treaty assigning the sovereignty of the land to the LoN and how the ottomans were left with a tiny portion of their vast empire. The Palestine you know is but a small part of the ancient Palestine that existed before the muslims were invented by the false prophet.

After WWI and WWII, most of the world was redrawn. The maps were vastly changed. No different than dividing up the remains of the Ottoman empire. Israel is no more artificial that any other country that was changed or created during that time. Even now the maps are in flux. Global nations have never really been static.

Time people come to the realization that Israel exists and then decide how to accept and move forward from that point in a way to benefit both/all sides.

 

[aris2chat]

Your version of "liberate" includes the destruction of Israel and the mass murder of 6 million Jews. ( the PLO definition of Palestinian Jew has ended because no Jew if 164 years old )

No Palestinian rep EVER called for mass extermination of 6 million.
The call was always for a binational state.

At the time, the Mufti of Jerusalem wanted to kill all the Jews in Palestine and the ME. He wanted a deal with your Uncle Adolph.

Mufti was also given millions in gold by Hitler to carry on the extermination of jews in the middle east.

 

[amity1844]

After WWI and WWII, most of the world was redrawn. The maps were vastly changed. No different than dividing up the remains of the Ottoman empire. Israel is no more artificial that any other country that was changed or created during that time. Even now the maps are in flux. Global nations have never really been static.

Time people come to the realization that Israel exists and then decide how to accept and move forward from that point in a way to benefit both/all sides.

Isn't THIS the truth. Now I agree with Aris! Yes, most of the world's boundaries WERE redrawn at the close of WWII, and that is definitely the source of many, if not most, of the conflicts across the globe today. The subjugated people are still paying Europe's price.

As far as getting on with Israel, as I said, 67 borders will do for now, but OUT. In the future if/when both states agree, binationalism.

 

[amity1844]

No Palestinian rep EVER called for mass extermination of 6 million.
The call was always for a binational state.

At the time, the Mufti of Jerusalem wanted to kill all the Jews in Palestine and the ME. He wanted a deal with your Uncle Adolph.

Mufti was also given millions in gold by Hitler to carry on the extermination of jews in the middle east.

WHY are you all so hung up on one crazy flake who had no credibility or influence when he was alive, and now has been dead long enough that nobody by you remembers him! His perch in Palestine was tenuous at best, he didn't have any political influence, only the ability to motivate a mob. And in his last days he wasn't allowed to participate by the PLO AT ALL

 

[irosie91]

This actually means, IRosie, that the cat's got Amity's tongue.

she knows how to spell the word "INDIGENOUS"-----but seems unable to define
it She seems to insist that these undefined things-----OWN all land
Human migrations never happened. Purchase of land never happened. Is she
the same person who used to insist that Jesus of Nazareth spoke Arabic 2000
years ago and wrote in that language even before it has an alphabet? Since
Indigenous people own all land----what happens to people who are not indigenous
to anywhere? I am not all that sure I am indigenous to North America----
I have no idea where I am supposed to own land. Lets face it----Abraham was
not indigenous to Beersheba-----he came from a place called ARAM ---or something
like that-------I think that is somewhere in Syria

 

[RoccoR]

aris2chat, Phoenall, P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, the modern establishment (20th Century) of "Palestine" was arbitarily set by the allied powers pursuant to the Part III, Section VII, Treaty of Sevres (1920) (Article 95), "within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers."

The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advise according to the League of Nations Covenant. It had no territory of its own. Palestine existed separate from the mandate.

So, what was your purpose for using that term?

How many more times does it have to be proven to you that palestines borders were those that included Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. They were defined as such so that the LoN mandates ( note more than one mandate ) could allocate LoN land to the above nations to create them inside Palestine. They did the same with the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS after taking 70% of the original allocation away to placate two arab princes. This led to the arabs realising the LoN was weakened and immediately started to attack the British and the Jews . This led to many Islamic terrorist attacks and finally the Jewish terrorist attacks on valid military targets.
The LoN won the land at the end of WW1 and it was theirs to do with as they wanted, read the relevant treaty assigning the sovereignty of the land to the LoN and how the ottomans were left with a tiny portion of their vast empire. The Palestine you know is but a small part of the ancient Palestine that existed before the muslims were invented by the false prophet.

After WWI and WWII, most of the world was redrawn. The maps were vastly changed. No different than dividing up the remains of the Ottoman empire. Israel is no more artificial that any other country that was changed or created during that time. Even now the maps are in flux. Global nations have never really been static.

Time people come to the realization that Israel exists and then decide how to accept and move forward from that point in a way to benefit both/all sides.

(COMMENT)

The disposition of the territory was at the discretion of the Allied Powers.

Yes, I agree! It is an old argument in which the Arab of the region felt slighted. But it is time to move on and develop a measure of regional stability.

(COMMENT)

Given the handy work in self-governance and self-determination of both the Arab regionally and the Arab localized to Palestine, it will probably take another century for them to acquire the knowledge, skills, and abilities to be successful. These former holdings of the Ottoman Empire have been in constant turmoil and distress ever since they were liberated out from under sovereign Ottoman control. There is no reason to assume that they can achieve peacefulness and civility in the modern age.

I cannot imagine how they see any honor heritage in what they do.

Most Respectfully,
R