Climate-change action is a conservative position

[Trakar]

Evans: Climate-change action is a conservative position
Clay Evans
Excerpts:

…According to NASA, "Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities." That's among climatologists who have published in peer-reviewed journalists -- true experts, in other words, as opposed to say, a random biologist or the author of a white paper for a biased think tank.

Pointing out such things to climate-change "skeptics" is considered bad taste these days. But as former U.S. Rep. Bob Inglis of South Carolina, a Republican jettisoned by voters for daring to accept the scientific consensus, put it, "Your child is sick, 98 doctors say treat him this way, two say, 'No, this other is the way to go.' (If you) go with the two, you're taking a big risk with those kids."…

The author then goes on to point out how climate change action actually aligns more with traditional conservative values (shudder)

It is genuinely astonishing that many, likely most, people who "reject" the reality of anthropogenic climate change -- those who are sticking with the 2-3 percent of scientific skeptics, no matter what -- would describe themselves as strong supporters of "family values" and "personal responsibility."

What's with that?
First, there is blame enough to go around. We are all the bogeyman here (although interestingly, the poorer you are, the smaller your carbon footprint is likely to be -- blessed are the poor?).
(&#8230
Second, conservatives hate the whole subject because it has unmistakable whiff of more government control. After all, who's going to enforce reductions in CO2 emissions? Not 350.org, that's for sure.
Many conservatives also despise collective action of any kind. These are the same people, generally, who mock the idea that "it takes a village" to do anything. Rugged individualism has made the world great, they say. Free-market capitalism is the unchallenged king of economic systems.
(&#8230
Yet the most promising tool for reducing emissions, a carbon tax recommended even by many conservative economists, isn't even under consideration because the Grover Norquists of the world have convinced so many Americans that taxes are bad, period. The thing is, taxing "bad things" like cigarettes and booze used to be a time-honored -- even conservative -- way to change negative behaviors, to the benefit of all (ooohhhh, social engineering!) But that tool was yanked out of the box and Congress is as likely to pass a carbon tax as it is to reduce its vacation days.
In other words, "rejecting" climate change is anything but a conservative position. It violates so many core conservative principles: Be frugal; plan for the future; sacrifice for your children and grandchildren; conserve what you have.
When it comes to actual behavior, I'm not so sure that liberals or progressives who tout the consensus on climate change are acting much differently than skeptical conservatives. But then, why should they? There's nothing to even discourage the other guy's going to drive his Hummer to work, so why should I take the bus?
In short, individual effort is not enough when it comes to climate change. This monumentally threatening problem requires legislation, taxes and government enforcement. It can be done in "conservative" ways, such as a cap-and-trade system, but taxing the negative impacts of carbon emissions is frankly more effective.
Or we can do nothing. We can embrace our role as a bunch of frogs in a slowly (or not so) simmering pot who aren't smart enough to hop out.

It pains me to pass along pieces like this, because I’m primarily of the opinion that “good ideas” are innately antithetical to the oxymoron that I consider “conservative ideas” to be. I am Republican, but a big part of my dislike of conservatism comes from what I have seen its promoters do to the party I am a member of. I became Republican because at one time they were the party of big ideas, progressive change and forward thinking, Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln, Eisenhower, to an extent even Nixon and Reagan. Now the conservatives in charge of my party just seem like obstructionists and petty theocratic crony capitalist dictators wanting two sets of rules, one for themselves and their friends and one for everyone else.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Did you vote Obama or Romney.....for your, er, um, party ?

 

[Trakar]

Did you vote Obama or Romney.....for your, er, um, party ?

I have always considered Obama to be a Bush-lite conservative/neoliberal. I did not, and do not support his administration.

 

[percysunshine]

Obama is a conservative?

hehehehe

 

[bripat9643]

Evans: Climate-change action is a conservative position
Clay Evans
Excerpts:

…According to NASA, "Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities." That's among climatologists who have published in peer-reviewed journalists -- true experts, in other words, as opposed to say, a random biologist or the author of a white paper for a biased think tank.

Pointing out such things to climate-change "skeptics" is considered bad taste these days. But as former U.S. Rep. Bob Inglis of South Carolina, a Republican jettisoned by voters for daring to accept the scientific consensus, put it, "Your child is sick, 98 doctors say treat him this way, two say, 'No, this other is the way to go.' (If you) go with the two, you're taking a big risk with those kids."…

The author then goes on to point out how climate change action actually aligns more with traditional conservative values (shudder)

It is genuinely astonishing that many, likely most, people who "reject" the reality of anthropogenic climate change -- those who are sticking with the 2-3 percent of scientific skeptics, no matter what -- would describe themselves as strong supporters of "family values" and "personal responsibility."

What's with that?
First, there is blame enough to go around. We are all the bogeyman here (although interestingly, the poorer you are, the smaller your carbon footprint is likely to be -- blessed are the poor?).
(…)
Second, conservatives hate the whole subject because it has unmistakable whiff of more government control. After all, who's going to enforce reductions in CO2 emissions? Not 350.org, that's for sure.
Many conservatives also despise collective action of any kind. These are the same people, generally, who mock the idea that "it takes a village" to do anything. Rugged individualism has made the world great, they say. Free-market capitalism is the unchallenged king of economic systems.
(…)
Yet the most promising tool for reducing emissions, a carbon tax recommended even by many conservative economists, isn't even under consideration because the Grover Norquists of the world have convinced so many Americans that taxes are bad, period. The thing is, taxing "bad things" like cigarettes and booze used to be a time-honored -- even conservative -- way to change negative behaviors, to the benefit of all (ooohhhh, social engineering!) But that tool was yanked out of the box and Congress is as likely to pass a carbon tax as it is to reduce its vacation days.
In other words, "rejecting" climate change is anything but a conservative position. It violates so many core conservative principles: Be frugal; plan for the future; sacrifice for your children and grandchildren; conserve what you have.
When it comes to actual behavior, I'm not so sure that liberals or progressives who tout the consensus on climate change are acting much differently than skeptical conservatives. But then, why should they? There's nothing to even discourage the other guy's going to drive his Hummer to work, so why should I take the bus?
In short, individual effort is not enough when it comes to climate change. This monumentally threatening problem requires legislation, taxes and government enforcement. It can be done in "conservative" ways, such as a cap-and-trade system, but taxing the negative impacts of carbon emissions is frankly more effective.
Or we can do nothing. We can embrace our role as a bunch of frogs in a slowly (or not so) simmering pot who aren't smart enough to hop out.

It pains me to pass along pieces like this, because I’m primarily of the opinion that “good ideas” are innately antithetical to the oxymoron that I consider “conservative ideas” to be. I am Republican, but a big part of my dislike of conservatism comes from what I have seen its promoters do to the party I am a member of. I became Republican because at one time they were the party of big ideas, progressive change and forward thinking, Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln, Eisenhower, to an extent even Nixon and Reagan. Now the conservatives in charge of my party just seem like obstructionists and petty theocratic crony capitalist dictators wanting two sets of rules, one for themselves and their friends and one for everyone else.

 

[Trakar]

Your response perfectly captures the character of your contribution to this discussion, deserving of both CUDOS and Reputation award for your insightful self-assessment!

 

[aaronleland]

It's always a mistake on this board to call yourself a Republican, but disagree with the other Republicans on a single issue. You will be labeled a fake, a plant, a RINO, an Obama supporter. Straying from the narrative on one single issue is all it takes. The Republicans here aren't conservatives. They are neo-con robots, programmed by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

 

[Antares]

You are at least 3 generations away from being able promote this shit again.

 

[Trakar]

It's always a mistake on this board to call yourself a Republican, but disagree with the other Republicans on a single issue. You will be labeled a fake, a plant, a RINO, an Obama supporter. Straying from the narrative on one single issue is all it takes. The Republicans here aren't conservatives. They are neo-con robots, programmed by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

LOL, I've bumped into that before. Even worse, in some eyes, I'm not a "moderate," or even "centrist," I am, and always have been, a proudly progressive Republican, who holds previous progressive administrations (more Republican progressive administrations than Democratic progressive administrations, IMO) in high esteem. I am progressive first, and Republican second - at least in the current era. If most modern Democrats were actually progressive, instead of being right of center neoliberals, I would have probably switched parties back in the '90s when fringe conservative extremism hijacked the Republican party.

Seems the current one-party system in the US only has room for the far fringe right Conservatives and the right of center neoLiberals.

 

[Trakar]

You are at least 3 generations away from being able promote this shit again.

Please explain (not sure who you are talking to or what you are talking about)

 

[Antares]

It's always a mistake on this board to call yourself a Republican, but disagree with the other Republicans on a single issue. You will be labeled a fake, a plant, a RINO, an Obama supporter. Straying from the narrative on one single issue is all it takes. The Republicans here aren't conservatives. They are neo-con robots, programmed by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

LOL, I've bumped into that before. Even worse, in some eyes, I'm not a "moderate," or even "centrist," I am, and always have been, a proudly progressive Republican, who holds previous progressive administrations (more Republican progressive administrations than Democratic progressive administrations, IMO) in high esteem. I am progressive first, and Republican second - at least in the current era. If most modern Democrats were actually progressive, instead of being right of center neoliberals, I would have probably switched parties back in the '90s when fringe conservative extremism hijacked the Republican party.

Seems the current one-party system in the US only has room for the far fringe right Conservatives and the right of center neoLiberals.

(yawn) One more "If you disagree with me at all you are a far right kook".

You kids are quite tiresome.

 

[Redfish]

Can we stay on topic? If AGW was really a proven scientific fact, then conservatives would be on board with doing something about it-------but its not a proven scientific fact. It is a left wing hoax that has been perpretrated in order to gain more control over the lives of free people.

Yes, climate change is real. Climate change has been real for millions of years, Man has NEVER had anything to do with it.

 

[jwoodie]

Go visit Glacier Bay in Alaska. The glacier has been receding for 200 years, 90% before 1900. Hmm...

 

[flacaltenn]

It's always a mistake on this board to call yourself a Republican, but disagree with the other Republicans on a single issue. You will be labeled a fake, a plant, a RINO, an Obama supporter. Straying from the narrative on one single issue is all it takes. The Republicans here aren't conservatives. They are neo-con robots, programmed by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

Which is why we have to EXPAND the politcal party system. Principled folks need shelter from the wrath of the party operatives.. Really 5 people run this country.. Cross the House/Senate Leaders or the Prez and your office will be in janitor closet where no cameras or constituents will ever find you..

As for the OP --- Free markets can and do solve these things. Every proposal from the left is about money into the General Fund to be crapped away..

My skepticism is NOT that the Earth is warming. I absolutely reject the hysteria about 1degF rise in my lifetime being due to CO2 or causing 2734 different crisis that need govt attention.. So if we KNEW THE MECHANISM for the warming -- we could prepare to do the engineering and public policy to cope with the consequences. I'm ALL up with that...

BTW -- no way I'm a just a mere Conservative. I could out Liberal most on this board on Social Issues and Out Con most Cons on fiscal govt and funding.. In fact a Libertarian who's been working for 3rd party ballot access most of his life. So --- there ya go...

Tell me Trakar -- What should a mutt like ME believe about Global Warming?

 

[Redfish]

Go visit Glacier Bay in Alaska. The glacier has been receding for 200 years, 90% before 1900. Hmm...

and the antarctic ice is growing, Does anyone really believe that man has anything to do with either?

 

[flacaltenn]

Go visit Glacier Bay in Alaska. The glacier has been receding for 200 years, 90% before 1900. Hmm...

and the antarctic ice is growing, Does anyone really believe that man has anything to do with either?

Moreover -- this is a good place to ask which problems would you rather contend with?

A world where glaciers are shrinking? Or a world where the glaciers are growing?

Which is NATURAL?

 

[aaronleland]

It's always a mistake on this board to call yourself a Republican, but disagree with the other Republicans on a single issue. You will be labeled a fake, a plant, a RINO, an Obama supporter. Straying from the narrative on one single issue is all it takes. The Republicans here aren't conservatives. They are neo-con robots, programmed by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

LOL, I've bumped into that before. Even worse, in some eyes, I'm not a "moderate," or even "centrist," I am, and always have been, a proudly progressive Republican, who holds previous progressive administrations (more Republican progressive administrations than Democratic progressive administrations, IMO) in high esteem. I am progressive first, and Republican second - at least in the current era. If most modern Democrats were actually progressive, instead of being right of center neoliberals, I would have probably switched parties back in the '90s when fringe conservative extremism hijacked the Republican party.

Seems the current one-party system in the US only has room for the far fringe right Conservatives and the right of center neoLiberals.

(yawn) One more "If you disagree with me at all you are a far right kook".

You kids are quite tiresome.

Are you just willfully ignorant. This entire topic is the perfect example of a Republican being accused of being liberal for disagreeing on one topic. Yet you twist it into us accusing you of being a right wing kook. You are a partisan tool.

 

[Redfish]

Go visit Glacier Bay in Alaska. The glacier has been receding for 200 years, 90% before 1900. Hmm...

and the antarctic ice is growing, Does anyone really believe that man has anything to do with either?

Moreover -- this is a good place to ask which problems would you rather contend with?

A world where glaciers are shrinking? Or a world where the glaciers are growing?

Which is NATURAL?

I think the idea of wheat fields in Greenland and orange orchards in Germany sounds pretty good. But a frozen Atlanta and New Orleans sounds pretty bad.

Its a hoax, algore is a fraud. its pathetic that so many people still buy into the bullshit.

 

[Trakar]

It's always a mistake on this board to call yourself a Republican, but disagree with the other Republicans on a single issue. You will be labeled a fake, a plant, a RINO, an Obama supporter. Straying from the narrative on one single issue is all it takes. The Republicans here aren't conservatives. They are neo-con robots, programmed by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity.

LOL, I've bumped into that before. Even worse, in some eyes, I'm not a "moderate," or even "centrist," I am, and always have been, a proudly progressive Republican, who holds previous progressive administrations (more Republican progressive administrations than Democratic progressive administrations, IMO) in high esteem. I am progressive first, and Republican second - at least in the current era. If most modern Democrats were actually progressive, instead of being right of center neoliberals, I would have probably switched parties back in the '90s when fringe conservative extremism hijacked the Republican party.

Seems the current one-party system in the US only has room for the far fringe right Conservatives and the right of center neoLiberals.

(yawn) One more "If you disagree with me at all you are a far right kook".

You kids are quite tiresome.

Not at all, until the last thirty years, I was pretty certain that the fringe left had the kook market cornered. That isn't to say that there are no more fringe left idiots in the world, merely that the fringe right has carved out a much more prominent turf over the last few decades. But then I guess young'uns like yourself only have a limited world/life perspective through which to view modern occurrences.

 

[Trakar]

Can we stay on topic? If AGW was really a proven scientific fact, then conservatives would be on board with doing something about it-------but its not a proven scientific fact. It is a left wing hoax that has been perpretrated in order to gain more control over the lives of free people.

Yes, climate change is real. Climate change has been real for millions of years, Man has NEVER had anything to do with it.

This is simply incorrect top-to-bottom, but it is a common rationalization that is widely promoted if lacking in compelling supportive evidences.