Classical liberalism

[JakeStarkey]

Jake: They did not, you doofus. That is why the Constitution is organic and mutable depending on the times and age. The document is not static.

Bripat: That's a totalitarian understanding of the Constitution.

Jake: Now you show you don't even know what Totalitarian means. Are you an anarchist?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, and you are a leftist. You are an entirely different animal. You're authoritarian, they sought liberty. And their policies were almost identical to libertarians today.

No one demagogue the word "liberal" underneath you, leftists subverted it when you tried to apply the word "liberal" to leftists who seek authoritarian government.

You are a far right reactionary with a radical anti-American agenda.

Congress told you what it thought about that last October and November.

I'm anti-American. I'm going to cry now. Sorry dude, I tried to cry. Not being a socialist like you is actually anti-American. I also understand not being a socialist means I hate cats, leprechauns and pepper corn squash. I think you picked the right one though for a political discussion, that I'm anti-American. Saying at that moment I hate peppercorn squash would have been a bit confusing.

You clearly show that you do not care about Americans, their values, or their futures.

You squawk "liberal" and whatever like a Polly Parrot, meaningless gibberish.

 

[kaz]

Really?

What was their perception of a global economy? What about environmental protections or food and drug safety? What did they think of the role of women and blacks in the 21st century? Did they have a view on fighting the global war on terror? What about post secondary education for the average citizen?

What was their perception of a global economy? - that isn't not a job for government, still the correct answer

What about environmental protections or food and drug safety? that it's a job for the States, still the correct answer. Unless it's an issue where one State is polluting another, in which in ... ter ... state commerce applies and the Feds can dictate to a State it must not affect it's neighbor.

What did they think of the role of women and blacks in the 21st century? - The original constitution doesn't actually implement slavery or prevent women from voting, you didn't know that, did you big guy?

Did they have a view on fighting the global war on terror? - that was covered. they can use the military to defend the US, they cannot use it to implement a world order as both parties are using the military for

What about post secondary education for the average citizen? - wtf does this have to do with the constitution?

Notice to USMB Board Members

The above post provides the reason why we NEVER elect Libertarians to run our country

You're right about that, my solution doesn't lead to socialism. And in your usual style, you passed on specifics. Content isn't your thing, is it, big guy?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sure they did. It's written in the constitution that you leftards like to molest, ignore or interpret in ways that make no sense.

Arguing with these types about what government is suppose to do is pointless. To you, they are to provide everything for "free" and there is absolutely no corner of human action that should not be perverted heavily by governance.

Just admit you love authoritarianism and lets call it a day. Clearly you are against individual liberty and the constitution.

The did not, you doofus. That is why the Constitution is organic and mutable depending on the times and age. The document is not static.

True, and they gave us the way to change the constitution. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4.

What is a crime is your preferred method of taking a 5/9 short cut to changing the constitution, that is not what they envisioned at all.

They gave us SCOTUS and Article III and the Bill of Rights to make sure folks like you did not persecute the minority without redress.

So accept the votes in October and November in Congress as a congressional referendum on TeaP stupidity.

That is not going to change.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What you build into all your assumptions is the idea that

if ... the central government does not do "it" ... then ... "it" will not get done.

Actually, that is crap. The founders wanted government for everything but those things only a central government can do, such as defense, to be local, which is far more effective because it is accountable to the people. That was true, and that is true. The idea of State powers is beyond your comprehension, only a central government is in play. You might want to Google what the word "Federal" government means. That is what they designed, and that is what was and is most effective.

As for liberalism, that is not only not capable of supporting a modern power like the US, that is destroying a modern power like the US. You are bankrupting us and crippling our international businesses with regulation and taxes. You're destroying jobs and fostering dependency. You criticizing the founders as unrealistic for supporting a power like the US is just laughable.

The founders had no concept of what a 21st century government was expected to do

That is why they left it to us

Wrong, they had a very good concept of what a 21st century government was supposed to do: very little.

They didn't leave it to you, numb nuts.

Why should we be bound to the beliefs of our ancestors? If the founders had been bound to the beliefs of their ancestors,

there would never have been a United States, or a Constitution forming a democratic republic.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The founders had no concept of what a 21st century government was expected to do

That is why they left it to us

Wrong, they had a very good concept of what a 21st century government was supposed to do: very little.

They didn't leave it to you, numb nuts.

Why should we be bound to the beliefs of our ancestors? If the founders had been bound to the beliefs of their ancestors,

there would never have been a United States, or a Constitution forming a democratic republic.

Democratic Republic?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Redfish]

The founders had no concept of what a 21st century government was expected to do

That is why they left it to us

Wrong, they had a very good concept of what a 21st century government was supposed to do: very little.

They didn't leave it to you, numb nuts.

Why should we be bound to the beliefs of our ancestors? If the founders had been bound to the beliefs of their ancestors,

there would never have been a United States, or a Constitution forming a democratic republic.

then lets convene a constitutional convention and rewrite it. We would probably end up with two countries.

The United States of America and the Socialist States of America.

Which country do you want to join?

 

[kaz]

You are a far right reactionary with a radical anti-American agenda.

Congress told you what it thought about that last October and November.

I'm anti-American. I'm going to cry now. Sorry dude, I tried to cry. Not being a socialist like you is actually anti-American. I also understand not being a socialist means I hate cats, leprechauns and pepper corn squash. I think you picked the right one though for a political discussion, that I'm anti-American. Saying at that moment I hate peppercorn squash would have been a bit confusing.

You clearly show that you do not care about Americans, their values, or their futures.

You squawk "liberal" and whatever like a Polly Parrot, meaningless gibberish.

The irony of your last sentence, from the guy (ok, like all the liberals) who can't argue anything specifically, you just label.

As for the rest, I hear ya, man. I believe Americans should be free to make their own choices. You believe government should remove that power and make it for them. And put anyone who doesn't go along with it in prison.

Wow, when I write it down, I see what you mean. I do hate peppercorn squash. I mean America.

Here are two facts.

1) My getting my way does not remove your power to make your own choices. Your getting your way does remove my power to make my own choices.

2) Once you get your way, America is just another country in the world with no more economic or military power and no more freedom than anyone else in the world. We are just like every other socialist country. That you call wanting the US to be special and better as we are now "anti-American" just shows what a rabid socialist you are.

 

[Redfish]

The did not, you doofus. That is why the Constitution is organic and mutable depending on the times and age. The document is not static.

True, and they gave us the way to change the constitution. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4.

What is a crime is your preferred method of taking a 5/9 short cut to changing the constitution, that is not what they envisioned at all.

They gave us SCOTUS and Article III and the Bill of Rights to make sure folks like you did not persecute the minority without redress.

So accept the votes in October and November in Congress as a congressional referendum on TeaP stupidity.

That is not going to change.

There will be more tea party members in congress in January 2015 than there are today. you libs are losing, jake. Real americans are fed up and will kick you and your kind out this november.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Polly Parrot (Kaz) shrieks that government has no role in the future of America. Polly does not understand that we are community as well as individuals. She gets to vote and then she is bound by the vote; she does not get to make choices that violate the choices of We the People.

She thinks that We the People, once they make a choice, makes us "just another country in the world with no more economic or military power and no more freedom than anyone else in the world. We are just like every other socialist country."

That is not only wrong, it is a pathetic attempt to undermine how we do things.

Neither libertarianism nor far right reactionary thinking improves the country, quite the opposite.

 

[JakeStarkey]

True, and they gave us the way to change the constitution. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4.

What is a crime is your preferred method of taking a 5/9 short cut to changing the constitution, that is not what they envisioned at all.

They gave us SCOTUS and Article III and the Bill of Rights to make sure folks like you did not persecute the minority without redress.

So accept the votes in October and November in Congress as a congressional referendum on TeaP stupidity.

That is not going to change.

There will be more tea party members in congress in January 2015 than there are today. you libs are losing, jake. Real americans are fed up and will kick you and your kind out this november.

Yup, just like Obama was going to get defeated in 2012, just like the TeaP membership would increase when in fact it was halved from 2010. And it will be halved again next year because the mainstream GOP leaders and money is making sure we don't run TeaP candidates in the national elections.

 

[kaz]

They gave us SCOTUS and Article III and the Bill of Rights to make sure folks like you did not persecute the minority without redress.

That's inane, even for you. I want a small government limited to it's Constitutional role. How would that be persecuting minorities? They would have the same government I do.

So accept the votes in October and November in Congress as a congressional referendum on TeaP stupidity.

That is not going to change.

What does this have to do with anything we are discussing? Is this in regard to the reactionaries who hide under your bed and try to eat your toes and who hide in your closet?

 

[Moonglow]

True, and they gave us the way to change the constitution. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4.

What is a crime is your preferred method of taking a 5/9 short cut to changing the constitution, that is not what they envisioned at all.

They gave us SCOTUS and Article III and the Bill of Rights to make sure folks like you did not persecute the minority without redress.

So accept the votes in October and November in Congress as a congressional referendum on TeaP stupidity.

That is not going to change.

There will be more tea party members in congress in January 2015 than there are today. you libs are losing, jake. Real americans are fed up and will kick you and your kind out this november.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[kaz]

Polly Parrot (Kaz) shrieks that government has no role in the future of America

JakeStarkey is a moron, I've said no such thing.

I do have a question though, who exactly am I "parroting?"

 

[Moonglow]

Clasical Liberal is a term favored by conservatives to celebrate that they have finally advanced to the state where liberals were 200 years ago

And self-described "modern liberals" have evolved all the way to communism.

One trick pony

I think it is called an illogical loop.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Polly Parot is reported for splicing a quote do respond to it out of context.

Here is the entire post so the reader has it context.

Polly Parrot (Kaz) shrieks that government has no role in the future of America. Polly does not understand that we are community as well as individuals. She gets to vote and then she is bound by the vote; she does not get to make choices that violate the choices of We the People.

She thinks that We the People, once they make a choice, makes us "just another country in the world with no more economic or military power and no more freedom than anyone else in the world. We are just like every other socialist country."

That is not only wrong, it is a pathetic attempt to undermine how we do things.

Neither libertarianism nor far right reactionary thinking improves the country, quite the opposite.

You are shrieking like a Parrot, imitating the other libertarian and far right reactionaries on the Board who cannot put their arguments into the context of American life, values, and institutions.

Polly Parrot (Kaz) shrieks that government has no role in the future of America

JakeStarkey is a moron, I've said no such thing.

I do have a question though, who exactly am I "parroting?"

 

[JakeStarkey]

And self-described "modern liberals" have evolved all the way to communism.

One trick pony

I think it is called an illogical loop.

the Parrot is right there with the Anarchist in the Loop.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What you build into all your assumptions is the idea that

if ... the central government does not do "it" ... then ... "it" will not get done.

Actually, that is crap. The founders wanted government for everything but those things only a central government can do, such as defense, to be local, which is far more effective because it is accountable to the people. That was true, and that is true. The idea of State powers is beyond your comprehension, only a central government is in play. You might want to Google what the word "Federal" government means. That is what they designed, and that is what was and is most effective.

As for liberalism, that is not only not capable of supporting a modern power like the US, that is destroying a modern power like the US. You are bankrupting us and crippling our international businesses with regulation and taxes. You're destroying jobs and fostering dependency. You criticizing the founders as unrealistic for supporting a power like the US is just laughable.

The founders had no concept of what a 21st century government was expected to do
That is why they left it to us

Sure they did. It's written in the constitution that you leftards like to molest, ignore or interpret in ways that make no sense.

Arguing with these types about what government is suppose to do is pointless. To you, they are to provide everything for "free" and there is absolutely no corner of human action that should not be perverted heavily by governance.

Just admit you love authoritarianism and lets call it a day. Clearly you are against individual liberty and the constitution.

I can tell you what Jefferson thought about the 21st century, or any other century for that matter,

as it relates to what he and other founders thought:

"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment....

...But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times.

We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors...."

Letter to Samuel Kercheval | Teaching American History

 

[bripat9643]

Jake: They did not, you doofus. That is why the Constitution is organic and mutable depending on the times and age. The document is not static.

Bripat: That's a totalitarian understanding of the Constitution.

Jake: Now you show you don't even know what Totalitarian means. Are you an anarchist?

Actually, I showed I do know what it means. Your mentality is utterly totalitarian.

 

[bripat9643]

And self-described "modern liberals" have evolved all the way to communism.

One trick pony

I think it is called an illogical loop.

There's no such term as "illogical loop." No one is surprised that you didn't know that.