Classic Liberalism V.S. Progressivism.

[Bfgrn]

I don't need Beck to see what is wrong with Progressive Policy. Progressive Assault on Individual Liberty, Private/Personal Property Rights, rich and Poor alike, and the Assault on Religion, God say it all. I know you don't like competition, I get it. My perspective is just different than yours, I see it as the Disease not the Cure. I don't need Beck or FOX for that. We are not Commodities for Anyone to play with.

An Audit of the Federal Reserve and making it Transparent, will end allot of the Illusion quicker than you can say 1000 point drop.

So the people back then were just too stupid to know what was wrong with society. Talk about ARROGANCE!

It's not about Arrogance, unless you mean Government playing God.

Are you suggesting People can act stupidly when misinformed. Exactly.

The Blind cannot lead the Blind. Have Faith, Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst.

There is No Collective Salvation.

Whistle all you want, you are missing the point...

From the article I posted:

Facing a rapidly industrializing economy, a swelling and diverse populace, and unstoppably powerful corporations, they sought to introduce public accountability and regulation to enhance individual freedom and opportunity.

The signal challenge of the age was the overwhelming power of the corporations. Unchecked by the government, their pursuit of profit created great wealth but consigned millions to misery and injustice. As cruel working conditions and widespread economic unfairness increasingly defied justification, Democrats and Republicans alike turned to reformist politicians—specifically Roosevelt and Wilson—who believed that political leadership meant tackling these problems. They wanted to maintain a dynamic capitalist economy while protecting laborers, farmers, consumers, and others who lacked recourse. Such reformers came to be called progressives.

Roosevelt and Wilson had plenty of differences, but in the long view of history their affinities loom large. For Roosevelt, presidential activism meant cracking down on the railroads, regulating food and drugs, breaking up trusts, protecting lands from exploitation, and arbitrating labor disputes. For Wilson, it involved regulating finance and the money supply, limiting the corporations' demands on their laborers, aiding farmers, preventing monopolistic practices, and making the new federal income tax a graduated one. Just three months ago, I wrote in Slate that over the last century, almost no one has questioned these achievements; clearly, I hadn't been watching enough Fox. Nonetheless, it's telling that these Progressive Era reforms have enjoyed such an enduring and uncontroversial place in our sense of what government should do. Their long-reigning acceptance shows better than anything else just how deeply reactionary Beck and company are.

 

[Intense]

So the people back then were just too stupid to know what was wrong with society. Talk about ARROGANCE!

It's not about Arrogance, unless you mean Government playing God.

Are you suggesting People can act stupidly when misinformed. Exactly.

The Blind cannot lead the Blind. Have Faith, Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst.

There is No Collective Salvation.

Whistle all you want, you are missing the point...

From the article I posted:

Facing a rapidly industrializing economy, a swelling and diverse populace, and unstoppably powerful corporations, they sought to introduce public accountability and regulation to enhance individual freedom and opportunity.

The signal challenge of the age was the overwhelming power of the corporations. Unchecked by the government, their pursuit of profit created great wealth but consigned millions to misery and injustice. As cruel working conditions and widespread economic unfairness increasingly defied justification, Democrats and Republicans alike turned to reformist politicians—specifically Roosevelt and Wilson—who believed that political leadership meant tackling these problems. They wanted to maintain a dynamic capitalist economy while protecting laborers, farmers, consumers, and others who lacked recourse. Such reformers came to be called progressives.

Roosevelt and Wilson had plenty of differences, but in the long view of history their affinities loom large. For Roosevelt, presidential activism meant cracking down on the railroads, regulating food and drugs, breaking up trusts, protecting lands from exploitation, and arbitrating labor disputes. For Wilson, it involved regulating finance and the money supply, limiting the corporations' demands on their laborers, aiding farmers, preventing monopolistic practices, and making the new federal income tax a graduated one. Just three months ago, I wrote in Slate that over the last century, almost no one has questioned these achievements; clearly, I hadn't been watching enough Fox. Nonetheless, it's telling that these Progressive Era reforms have enjoyed such an enduring and uncontroversial place in our sense of what government should do. Their long-reigning acceptance shows better than anything else just how deeply reactionary Beck and company are.

You miss my point. I'm not saying everything Progressive is bad. Good was done. Some good was done. You cannot violate Individual Liberty, Human Right's claiming it is good for the State, without Consent and Due Process. Be honest about your disdain for the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence because of what they stand for. You have abandoned core values precisely because they stand in the way of your vision, and Progressiveness is lying about it.

It is easy to find criticism when you are on the outside looking in, another thing to come up with viable solutions. Your solutions steal Human Rights. That does not make things better, just different. Human Nature is corrupt. You think because Progressive Government takes over they can do no wrong. That's Bullshit. You are abandoning Founding Principles for your convenience with out regard for what is lost, precisely because you think you can do no wrong. Check your premise. It is flawed. Progressivism has abandoned too much, trading one Hell for another. Who is to crack down on Government when it abuses? Where are your checks and balances? The system is plagued with incompetence and fraud. We are stuck with it.

 

[Bfgrn]

It's not about Arrogance, unless you mean Government playing God.

Are you suggesting People can act stupidly when misinformed. Exactly.

The Blind cannot lead the Blind. Have Faith, Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst.

There is No Collective Salvation.

Whistle all you want, you are missing the point...

From the article I posted:

Facing a rapidly industrializing economy, a swelling and diverse populace, and unstoppably powerful corporations, they sought to introduce public accountability and regulation to enhance individual freedom and opportunity.

The signal challenge of the age was the overwhelming power of the corporations. Unchecked by the government, their pursuit of profit created great wealth but consigned millions to misery and injustice. As cruel working conditions and widespread economic unfairness increasingly defied justification, Democrats and Republicans alike turned to reformist politicians—specifically Roosevelt and Wilson—who believed that political leadership meant tackling these problems. They wanted to maintain a dynamic capitalist economy while protecting laborers, farmers, consumers, and others who lacked recourse. Such reformers came to be called progressives.

Roosevelt and Wilson had plenty of differences, but in the long view of history their affinities loom large. For Roosevelt, presidential activism meant cracking down on the railroads, regulating food and drugs, breaking up trusts, protecting lands from exploitation, and arbitrating labor disputes. For Wilson, it involved regulating finance and the money supply, limiting the corporations' demands on their laborers, aiding farmers, preventing monopolistic practices, and making the new federal income tax a graduated one. Just three months ago, I wrote in Slate that over the last century, almost no one has questioned these achievements; clearly, I hadn't been watching enough Fox. Nonetheless, it's telling that these Progressive Era reforms have enjoyed such an enduring and uncontroversial place in our sense of what government should do. Their long-reigning acceptance shows better than anything else just how deeply reactionary Beck and company are.

You miss my point. I'm not saying everything Progressive is bad. Good was done. Some good was done. You cannot violate Individual Liberty, Human Right's claiming it is good for the State, without Consent and Due Process. Be honest about your disdain for the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence because of what they stand for. You have abandoned core values precisely because they stand in the way of your vision, and Progressiveness is lying about it.

It is easy to find criticism when you are on the outside looking in, another thing to come up with viable solutions. Your solutions steal Human Rights. That does not make things better, just different. Human Nature is corrupt. You think because Progressive Government takes over they can do no wrong. That's Bullshit. You are abandoning Founding Principles for your convenience with out regard for what is lost, precisely because you think you can do no wrong. Check your premise. It is flawed. Progressivism has abandoned too much, trading one Hell for another. Who is to crack down on Government when it abuses? Where are your checks and balances? The system is plagued with incompetence and fraud. We are stuck with it.

And you said you don't need Beck to tell you how to think. You are talking like a paranoid "Beckster". All your accusations are in YOUR head, not in my beliefs.

Any nation is measured in human capital. How are the people doing? Well the middle class is not doing well, and it hasn't for a long time. We don't need austerity and cuts to social programs. The people who lost their jobs did NOTHING wrong. This was brought about by Wall Street bankers. The same wealth disparity that helped spur the progressive movement exists today.

The Tea Party best show some humanity or they will be sanctioned by the American people...

During the Great Depression conservatives raised objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

 

[Intense]

Whistle all you want, you are missing the point...

From the article I posted:

Facing a rapidly industrializing economy, a swelling and diverse populace, and unstoppably powerful corporations, they sought to introduce public accountability and regulation to enhance individual freedom and opportunity.

The signal challenge of the age was the overwhelming power of the corporations. Unchecked by the government, their pursuit of profit created great wealth but consigned millions to misery and injustice. As cruel working conditions and widespread economic unfairness increasingly defied justification, Democrats and Republicans alike turned to reformist politicians—specifically Roosevelt and Wilson—who believed that political leadership meant tackling these problems. They wanted to maintain a dynamic capitalist economy while protecting laborers, farmers, consumers, and others who lacked recourse. Such reformers came to be called progressives.

Roosevelt and Wilson had plenty of differences, but in the long view of history their affinities loom large. For Roosevelt, presidential activism meant cracking down on the railroads, regulating food and drugs, breaking up trusts, protecting lands from exploitation, and arbitrating labor disputes. For Wilson, it involved regulating finance and the money supply, limiting the corporations' demands on their laborers, aiding farmers, preventing monopolistic practices, and making the new federal income tax a graduated one. Just three months ago, I wrote in Slate that over the last century, almost no one has questioned these achievements; clearly, I hadn't been watching enough Fox. Nonetheless, it's telling that these Progressive Era reforms have enjoyed such an enduring and uncontroversial place in our sense of what government should do. Their long-reigning acceptance shows better than anything else just how deeply reactionary Beck and company are.

You miss my point. I'm not saying everything Progressive is bad. Good was done. Some good was done. You cannot violate Individual Liberty, Human Right's claiming it is good for the State, without Consent and Due Process. Be honest about your disdain for the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence because of what they stand for. You have abandoned core values precisely because they stand in the way of your vision, and Progressiveness is lying about it.

It is easy to find criticism when you are on the outside looking in, another thing to come up with viable solutions. Your solutions steal Human Rights. That does not make things better, just different. Human Nature is corrupt. You think because Progressive Government takes over they can do no wrong. That's Bullshit. You are abandoning Founding Principles for your convenience with out regard for what is lost, precisely because you think you can do no wrong. Check your premise. It is flawed. Progressivism has abandoned too much, trading one Hell for another. Who is to crack down on Government when it abuses? Where are your checks and balances? The system is plagued with incompetence and fraud. We are stuck with it.

And you said you don't need Beck to tell you how to think. You are talking like a paranoid "Beckster". All your accusations are in YOUR head, not in my beliefs.

Any nation is measured in human capital. How are the people doing? Well the middle class is not doing well, and it hasn't for a long time. We don't need austerity and cuts to social programs. The people who lost their jobs did NOTHING wrong. This was brought about by Wall Street bankers. The same wealth disparity that helped spur the progressive movement exists today.

The Tea Party best show some humanity or they will be sanctioned by the American people...

During the Great Depression conservatives raised objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

Search the Thread. It's documented. My search is Truth and Justice. We Establish it and maintain it. That is not done with exception and Privilege. One Standard, by the rules, you want to change a rule, state your cause, make your case, trust the process. Don't try to evade it. Respect Human Life, whether it agrees with you or not. Stop Indoctrinating, it undermines both Conscience and Reason. It Corrupts. We all lose when that happens. You would rather control than trust. That is a corruption. Liberty does not mean Anarchy. That is a perversion. Progressives have done good things. It is imperative that you play by the rules, not ignore them, not change them without consent. Try Harder. The Service of Justice is not about material things, though the effects are played out here. Thought, Word, Action, Value, Principle, Ideal, are open to Each One of us. The Truth of the matter is revealed in the depth of testimony, witnessed. Tell the Truth about what you see. That is your obligation to your Maker, at least part of it. This Bullshit about Killing the Messenger and throwing Critics under the Bus is total Bullshit. Separate the Message from the Messenger. Test it, weigh it on it's own value. If you have a problem with the truth of it, fine, if you have a problem with the weight of it, search your Soul. The World is not Binary, neither are we stupid.

 

[Bfgrn]

You miss my point. I'm not saying everything Progressive is bad. Good was done. Some good was done. You cannot violate Individual Liberty, Human Right's claiming it is good for the State, without Consent and Due Process. Be honest about your disdain for the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence because of what they stand for. You have abandoned core values precisely because they stand in the way of your vision, and Progressiveness is lying about it.

It is easy to find criticism when you are on the outside looking in, another thing to come up with viable solutions. Your solutions steal Human Rights. That does not make things better, just different. Human Nature is corrupt. You think because Progressive Government takes over they can do no wrong. That's Bullshit. You are abandoning Founding Principles for your convenience with out regard for what is lost, precisely because you think you can do no wrong. Check your premise. It is flawed. Progressivism has abandoned too much, trading one Hell for another. Who is to crack down on Government when it abuses? Where are your checks and balances? The system is plagued with incompetence and fraud. We are stuck with it.

And you said you don't need Beck to tell you how to think. You are talking like a paranoid "Beckster". All your accusations are in YOUR head, not in my beliefs.

Any nation is measured in human capital. How are the people doing? Well the middle class is not doing well, and it hasn't for a long time. We don't need austerity and cuts to social programs. The people who lost their jobs did NOTHING wrong. This was brought about by Wall Street bankers. The same wealth disparity that helped spur the progressive movement exists today.

The Tea Party best show some humanity or they will be sanctioned by the American people...

During the Great Depression conservatives raised objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

Search the Thread. It's documented. My search is Truth and Justice. We Establish it and maintain it. That is not done with exception and Privilege. One Standard, by the rules, you want to change a rule, state your cause, make your case, trust the process. Don't try to evade it. Respect Human Life, whether it agrees with you or not. Stop Indoctrinating, it undermines both Conscience and Reason. It Corrupts. We all lose when that happens. You would rather control than trust. That is a corruption. Liberty does not mean Anarchy. That is a perversion. Progressives have done good things. It is imperative that you play by the rules, not ignore them, not change them without consent. Try Harder. The Service of Justice is not about material things, though the effects are played out here. Thought, Word, Action, Value, Principle, Ideal, are open to Each One of us. The Truth of the matter is revealed in the depth of testimony, witnessed. Tell the Truth about what you see. That is your obligation to your Maker, at least part of it. This Bullshit about Killing the Messenger and throwing Critics under the Bus is total Bullshit. Separate the Message from the Messenger. Test it, weigh it on it's own value. If you have a problem with the truth of it, fine, if you have a problem with the weight of it, search your Soul. The World is not Binary, neither are we stupid.

You are chanting, not talking. You sound like that nutjob who watched Beck and drove off to shoot the evil progressives at the Tides Foundation.

I have a very mature and healthy appreciation for freedom and liberty. This country is becoming a plutocracy. THAT is not what our founders envisioned.

 

[Intense]

And you said you don't need Beck to tell you how to think. You are talking like a paranoid "Beckster". All your accusations are in YOUR head, not in my beliefs.

Any nation is measured in human capital. How are the people doing? Well the middle class is not doing well, and it hasn't for a long time. We don't need austerity and cuts to social programs. The people who lost their jobs did NOTHING wrong. This was brought about by Wall Street bankers. The same wealth disparity that helped spur the progressive movement exists today.

The Tea Party best show some humanity or they will be sanctioned by the American people...

During the Great Depression conservatives raised objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

Search the Thread. It's documented. My search is Truth and Justice. We Establish it and maintain it. That is not done with exception and Privilege. One Standard, by the rules, you want to change a rule, state your cause, make your case, trust the process. Don't try to evade it. Respect Human Life, whether it agrees with you or not. Stop Indoctrinating, it undermines both Conscience and Reason. It Corrupts. We all lose when that happens. You would rather control than trust. That is a corruption. Liberty does not mean Anarchy. That is a perversion. Progressives have done good things. It is imperative that you play by the rules, not ignore them, not change them without consent. Try Harder. The Service of Justice is not about material things, though the effects are played out here. Thought, Word, Action, Value, Principle, Ideal, are open to Each One of us. The Truth of the matter is revealed in the depth of testimony, witnessed. Tell the Truth about what you see. That is your obligation to your Maker, at least part of it. This Bullshit about Killing the Messenger and throwing Critics under the Bus is total Bullshit. Separate the Message from the Messenger. Test it, weigh it on it's own value. If you have a problem with the truth of it, fine, if you have a problem with the weight of it, search your Soul. The World is not Binary, neither are we stupid.

You are chanting, not talking. You sound like that nutjob who watched Beck and drove off to shoot the evil progressives at the Tides Foundation.

I have a very mature and healthy appreciation for freedom and liberty. This country is becoming a plutocracy. THAT is not what our founders envisioned.

If you think your Progressive Utopia is not a part of it, the only one you are fooling is yourself. I advocate Small Government, by the Consent of the governed, I am an Advocate for Individual Liberty, Religious Freedom, and Property Rights.

Big Centralized Government is about Power and Control. Some People like being manipulated. That is their business. When you impose it on others you will be called on it. It has been established that Progressivism has long ago broken away from Classic Liberalism. That is not Imagination. You need to read more.

Government corruption at the highest levels as you try to Bullshit me. You got something new, I'm willing to hear. Same old shit, you can waste Someone Else's time.

 

[Intense]

Woodrow Wilson has always been easy for liberals to like. He was a reformer during the Progressive era, establishing an eight-hour workday, outlawing child labor, and busting trusts. He instituted the federal income tax and the Federal Reserve System, and created the parameters of American foreign policy that remain with us today. He also served as the great liberal link between Andrew Jackson and FDR, bringing the concept of a strong central government into the Democratic Party. Indeed, he becomes something of a father figure for 20th century liberalism. .............


The biggest black mark against Wilson, as far as liberals go, was the assault on civil liberties dating from the United States’ entry into World War I, and it is this part of Woodrow Wilson that also speaks to our own time. The Espionage and Sedation Acts in 1917 and 1918 outlawed criticism of government policy, including—absurdly enough—anyone who obstructed the sale of liberty bonds. “By arousing public opinion to such a pitch of excitement,” writes George Tindall in America: A Narrative History, “the war effort channeled the crusading zeal of progressivism into grotesque campaigns of ‘Americanism’ and witch-hunting.” German books were banned from schools, German music from local auditoriums. Sauerkraut became “liberty cabbage.” Thousands of socialists, communists, unionists, and “suspicious” foreigners were arrested, some without warrants, and a number were imprisoned and deported. Socialist Eugene Debs was arrested for speaking against the war, and he would run for president from prison in 1920. Wilson refused to pardon him, leaving the task to Republican Warren G. Harding (proving that even a bad president can do a good deed). Woodrow Wilson - A Review - American Experience

 

[Intense]

During the crisis of World War I, Woodrow Wilson imposed fascism on America. He called it ‘War Socialism’. And what’s happened before can happen again.

In previous installments here, here and here, we examined Woodrow Wilson’s distaste for natural law and the Declaration of Independence, his rejection of limited government and the separation of powers, his infatuation with German historicism and his desire to place government in the hands of pristine experts. For Wilson, people were not individuals but moving parts of the organic state – and Wilson most assuredly worshiped the state.

In common with much of the Progressive intelligentsia, Wilson openly admired European fascism. After all, this was a man who wrote in Chapter 3 of Constitutional Government, ‘Government is not a machine, but a living thing. It falls not under the theory of the universe, but under the theory of organic life. It is accountable to Darwin, not to Newton.’

In other words, for Wilson there were no immutable principles of government, only the needs of the moment as understood by elites who were ready to analyze, regulate and impose their will on the masses. This is the essence of fascism: elites imposing order, using crisis as pretext and cult of personality as the vehicle.

For Wilson and the elites, World War I was the crisis needed to impose a despotic order on America never seen before or since. One of the very best descriptions is found in The Great Influenza, John Barry’s account of the 1918-19 Spanish Flu pandemic. As recounted by Barry, the Wilson administration suppressed vital information that would have reduced the country’s vulnerability to the plague – all ostensibly done in the interest of prosecuting the war. Woodrow Wilson: The Nation’s Worst President IV – War Socialism

 

[Bfgrn]

During the crisis of World War I, Woodrow Wilson imposed fascism on America. He called it ‘War Socialism’. And what’s happened before can happen again.

In previous installments here, here and here, we examined Woodrow Wilson’s distaste for natural law and the Declaration of Independence, his rejection of limited government and the separation of powers, his infatuation with German historicism and his desire to place government in the hands of pristine experts. For Wilson, people were not individuals but moving parts of the organic state – and Wilson most assuredly worshiped the state.

In common with much of the Progressive intelligentsia, Wilson openly admired European fascism. After all, this was a man who wrote in Chapter 3 of Constitutional Government, ‘Government is not a machine, but a living thing. It falls not under the theory of the universe, but under the theory of organic life. It is accountable to Darwin, not to Newton.’

In other words, for Wilson there were no immutable principles of government, only the needs of the moment as understood by elites who were ready to analyze, regulate and impose their will on the masses. This is the essence of fascism: elites imposing order, using crisis as pretext and cult of personality as the vehicle.

For Wilson and the elites, World War I was the crisis needed to impose a despotic order on America never seen before or since. One of the very best descriptions is found in The Great Influenza, John Barry’s account of the 1918-19 Spanish Flu pandemic. As recounted by Barry, the Wilson administration suppressed vital information that would have reduced the country’s vulnerability to the plague – all ostensibly done in the interest of prosecuting the war. Woodrow Wilson: The Nation’s Worst President IV – War Socialism

You have gone off the deep end. You are now putting Glenn Beck to shame. You mind is being rotted by propaganda. The brainwashing is complete.

If anything, the reformist president of the Progressive Era, once a great icon of democrats worldwide, has been flayed more often by the left—for his idealistic internationalism (given a bad name by George W. Bush), his wartime suppression of dissent (of which Bush, again, reminded liberals), and his racist predilections (a stain on his record now impossible to ignore). The right had largely ignored or forgotten him.

Until now. Thanks largely to Glenn Beck, who in turn seems to have been influenced by a tiny cluster of academics at conservative outposts like Hillsdale College, Wilson has emerged as the Tea Party's No. 1 "President You Need to Hate," as he's described on the "Beck University" Web site, the talk-show host's repository of baroque counter-histories.

 

[Bfgrn]

Intense, here is an article that get to the heart of my beliefs...

Paul Ryan, American Values and Corporatocracy

America needs a "mixed economy," one where a more effective federal government regulates business and invests alongside the business sector. In his review of my book, Congressman Paul Ryan, an avowed libertarian, describes my book as anti-American in its values. Ryan is wrong: my book describes how we can restore politics to the true mainstream of American values, rescuing democracy from the clutches of corporate power that Ryan champions in deeds if not in words.

Ryan claims I would replace "the ideals of individual liberty" with the beneficence of "an intrusive, unlimited government." This is how Ryan sees my call for government to regulate banks, protect the environment from pollution, promote science, tax millionaires and billionaires, and limit the lobbying power of corporations. When one is on the far right of the political spectrum like most of the Republican Party today, even moderate policies look like "unlimited government."

Ryan calls the mixed economy anti-American. History, however, shows otherwise. From the start of the republic, our Founding Fathers and our greatest presidents have championed an affirmative role of government in the economy. Ironically, Ryan turns to Thomas Jefferson for proof, imaging that Jefferson would support Ryan's libertarian views.

Ryan seems to be unaware that Jefferson vigorously opposed the untrammeled actions of commercial banks and corporations that Ryan champions. Jefferson famously wrote, "I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies." He declared the need to "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

Ryan also overlooks several obvious facts of American history. From Jefferson to Abraham Lincoln to Teddy Roosevelt to Franklin Roosevelt to now, the federal government has played a vital role in public works (canals in the 19th century, highways in the mid-20th century, and someday a low-carbon energy system in the 21st century). From the founding days 'til now, government has championed public education, such as in 1862 when Abraham Lincoln signed the Morrill Act establishing America's great land-grant universities. From the founding days 'til now, the federal government has championed research, from Lewis and Clark's expedition under Jefferson to the mission to the moon under Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon.

Ryan ignores the extensive evidence in the book showing that Americans support the values of a mixed economy, not of Ryan's free-market libertarianism. Americans today by large majorities support public education, Medicare, Social Security, help for the indigent, stronger regulation of the banks, and higher taxation of the rich. The problem is not with American values, I show, but with the failure of our government to translate American values into American policies.

More - Jeffrey Sachs American economist

 

[Intense]

During the crisis of World War I, Woodrow Wilson imposed fascism on America. He called it ‘War Socialism’. And what’s happened before can happen again.

In previous installments here, here and here, we examined Woodrow Wilson’s distaste for natural law and the Declaration of Independence, his rejection of limited government and the separation of powers, his infatuation with German historicism and his desire to place government in the hands of pristine experts. For Wilson, people were not individuals but moving parts of the organic state – and Wilson most assuredly worshiped the state.

In common with much of the Progressive intelligentsia, Wilson openly admired European fascism. After all, this was a man who wrote in Chapter 3 of Constitutional Government, ‘Government is not a machine, but a living thing. It falls not under the theory of the universe, but under the theory of organic life. It is accountable to Darwin, not to Newton.’

In other words, for Wilson there were no immutable principles of government, only the needs of the moment as understood by elites who were ready to analyze, regulate and impose their will on the masses. This is the essence of fascism: elites imposing order, using crisis as pretext and cult of personality as the vehicle.

For Wilson and the elites, World War I was the crisis needed to impose a despotic order on America never seen before or since. One of the very best descriptions is found in The Great Influenza, John Barry’s account of the 1918-19 Spanish Flu pandemic. As recounted by Barry, the Wilson administration suppressed vital information that would have reduced the country’s vulnerability to the plague – all ostensibly done in the interest of prosecuting the war. Woodrow Wilson: The Nation’s Worst President IV – War Socialism

You have gone off the deep end. You are now putting Glenn Beck to shame. You mind is being rotted by propaganda. The brainwashing is complete.

If anything, the reformist president of the Progressive Era, once a great icon of democrats worldwide, has been flayed more often by the left—for his idealistic internationalism (given a bad name by George W. Bush), his wartime suppression of dissent (of which Bush, again, reminded liberals), and his racist predilections (a stain on his record now impossible to ignore). The right had largely ignored or forgotten him.

Until now. Thanks largely to Glenn Beck, who in turn seems to have been influenced by a tiny cluster of academics at conservative outposts like Hillsdale College, Wilson has emerged as the Tea Party's No. 1 "President You Need to Hate," as he's described on the "Beck University" Web site, the talk-show host's repository of baroque counter-histories.

Yes Master. I will submit to re indoctrination Immediately.

My end results in the celebration of Free Will and positive direction.

Your end results in subjugation and equal misery, by the consent of the Empire.

I am not offended by you using your will to conform, to follow, to raise your hand for permission to use the Rest Room.

You however are offended by Free Will, something you cannot understand. Your Religion is not about God, it is about Government, that is why you fear Liberty. You have got to let go of the yearn for Control and Subjugation of Others and Free Yourself. Find Conscience. There is Nothing God can't make Right.

You fail to understand, God first in All things, so in that, You are not yet free. You want to assassinate My character because we cannot come to terms. I cannot submit to your will, you can neither buy it or force it. You cannot accept that before God, He determines what is fair, what is of value, and it is for us to accept, each concerned about Our Own path. Each an example , be it for better or worse.

Everything that questions your will, challenges your perspective, shines a light on your short comings, you seek to villainize, without question.

You are obsessed with Beck. You cannot be Him, you cannot have Him, get over it. I seek to discuss, you seek to destroy what you can't control. Why is that? Why do your kind throw everything under the bus they cannot leash, anything that does not march in lock step? Progressive Fascism? Is that what it really is? Another flavor of Totalitarianism. Run that by Central Control will you? How about picking me up a Coke on the way back? Off to the Dentist.

 

[peach174]

the progressives have become a combination of Communism, Socialism and Marxism and they make up about 8% of the population of this county. They are part of the Obama team in the W H right now.
And it is progressives who are the Occupy Wall St protesters.
They are the extreme far left.

 

[Bfgrn]

During the crisis of World War I, Woodrow Wilson imposed fascism on America. He called it ‘War Socialism’. And what’s happened before can happen again.

In previous installments here, here and here, we examined Woodrow Wilson’s distaste for natural law and the Declaration of Independence, his rejection of limited government and the separation of powers, his infatuation with German historicism and his desire to place government in the hands of pristine experts. For Wilson, people were not individuals but moving parts of the organic state – and Wilson most assuredly worshiped the state.

In common with much of the Progressive intelligentsia, Wilson openly admired European fascism. After all, this was a man who wrote in Chapter 3 of Constitutional Government, ‘Government is not a machine, but a living thing. It falls not under the theory of the universe, but under the theory of organic life. It is accountable to Darwin, not to Newton.’

In other words, for Wilson there were no immutable principles of government, only the needs of the moment as understood by elites who were ready to analyze, regulate and impose their will on the masses. This is the essence of fascism: elites imposing order, using crisis as pretext and cult of personality as the vehicle.

For Wilson and the elites, World War I was the crisis needed to impose a despotic order on America never seen before or since. One of the very best descriptions is found in The Great Influenza, John Barry’s account of the 1918-19 Spanish Flu pandemic. As recounted by Barry, the Wilson administration suppressed vital information that would have reduced the country’s vulnerability to the plague – all ostensibly done in the interest of prosecuting the war. Woodrow Wilson: The Nation’s Worst President IV – War Socialism

You have gone off the deep end. You are now putting Glenn Beck to shame. You mind is being rotted by propaganda. The brainwashing is complete.

If anything, the reformist president of the Progressive Era, once a great icon of democrats worldwide, has been flayed more often by the left—for his idealistic internationalism (given a bad name by George W. Bush), his wartime suppression of dissent (of which Bush, again, reminded liberals), and his racist predilections (a stain on his record now impossible to ignore). The right had largely ignored or forgotten him.

Until now. Thanks largely to Glenn Beck, who in turn seems to have been influenced by a tiny cluster of academics at conservative outposts like Hillsdale College, Wilson has emerged as the Tea Party's No. 1 "President You Need to Hate," as he's described on the "Beck University" Web site, the talk-show host's repository of baroque counter-histories.

Yes Master. I will submit to re indoctrination Immediately.

My end results in the celebration of Free Will and positive direction.

Your end results in subjugation and equal misery, by the consent of the Empire.

I am not offended by you using your will to conform, to follow, to raise your hand for permission to use the Rest Room.

You however are offended by Free Will, something you cannot understand. Your Religion is not about God, it is about Government, that is why you fear Liberty. You have got to let go of the yearn for Control and Subjugation of Others and Free Yourself. Find Conscience. There is Nothing God can't make Right.

You fail to understand, God first in All things, so in that, You are not yet free. You want to assassinate My character because we cannot come to terms. I cannot submit to your will, you can neither buy it or force it. You cannot accept that before God, He determines what is fair, what is of value, and it is for us to accept, each concerned about Our Own path. Each an example , be it for better or worse.

Everything that questions your will, challenges your perspective, shines a light on your short comings, you seek to villainize, without question.

You are obsessed with Beck. You cannot be Him, you cannot have Him, get over it. I seek to discuss, you seek to destroy what you can't control. Why is that? Why do your kind throw everything under the bus they cannot leash, anything that does not march in lock step? Progressive Fascism? Is that what it really is? Another flavor of Totalitarianism. Run that by Central Control will you? How about picking me up a Coke on the way back? Off to the Dentist.

So, Intense, what I gather from your chants is the the law of the jungle is the only way to be free. Social Darwinism...

Keep this one little detail in mind...what our founding fathers created and is the seminal achievement of their lives was government, not a jungle.

 

[Oddball]

So, Intense, what I gather from your chants is the the law of the jungle is the only way to be free. Social Darwinism...

Keep this one little detail in mind...what our founding fathers created and is the seminal achievement of their lives was government, not a jungle.

Way to ignore the substance of the entire conversation in favor of invoking the tired old "ANARCHIST!" strawman.

And you wonder why people like me don't take your manic brain droppings seriously?

 

[Oddball]

The word 'corporation' appears nowhere in the Constitution. Our founding fathers had no desire to give corporations any power or control over their new government or We, the People.

Specious, circular logic sophistry....Par for the course.

Of course, if they were so vehemently anti-corporation, why is it that they created the corporation known as District of Columbia, back in 1871?

From the National Archives:

Established: Effective June 1, 1871, by an act of February 21, 1871 (16 Stat. 419), abolishing the Corporations of the City of Washington, DC, and Georgetown, DC, and the Levy Court of Washington County, DC; and replacing them with a municipal corporation known as the District of Columbia.

Records of the Government of the District of Columbia

Yes Government Incorporates too, at most levels.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Intense, here is an article that get to the heart of my beliefs...

Paul Ryan, American Values and Corporatocracy

America needs a "mixed economy," one where a more effective federal government regulates business and invests alongside the business sector. In his review of my book, Congressman Paul Ryan, an avowed libertarian, describes my book as anti-American in its values. Ryan is wrong: my book describes how we can restore politics to the true mainstream of American values, rescuing democracy from the clutches of corporate power that Ryan champions in deeds if not in words.

Ryan claims I would replace "the ideals of individual liberty" with the beneficence of "an intrusive, unlimited government." This is how Ryan sees my call for government to regulate banks, protect the environment from pollution, promote science, tax millionaires and billionaires, and limit the lobbying power of corporations. When one is on the far right of the political spectrum like most of the Republican Party today, even moderate policies look like "unlimited government."

Ryan calls the mixed economy anti-American. History, however, shows otherwise. From the start of the republic, our Founding Fathers and our greatest presidents have championed an affirmative role of government in the economy. Ironically, Ryan turns to Thomas Jefferson for proof, imaging that Jefferson would support Ryan's libertarian views.

Ryan seems to be unaware that Jefferson vigorously opposed the untrammeled actions of commercial banks and corporations that Ryan champions. Jefferson famously wrote, "I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies." He declared the need to "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

Ryan also overlooks several obvious facts of American history. From Jefferson to Abraham Lincoln to Teddy Roosevelt to Franklin Roosevelt to now, the federal government has played a vital role in public works (canals in the 19th century, highways in the mid-20th century, and someday a low-carbon energy system in the 21st century). From the founding days 'til now, government has championed public education, such as in 1862 when Abraham Lincoln signed the Morrill Act establishing America's great land-grant universities. From the founding days 'til now, the federal government has championed research, from Lewis and Clark's expedition under Jefferson to the mission to the moon under Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon.

Ryan ignores the extensive evidence in the book showing that Americans support the values of a mixed economy, not of Ryan's free-market libertarianism. Americans today by large majorities support public education, Medicare, Social Security, help for the indigent, stronger regulation of the banks, and higher taxation of the rich. The problem is not with American values, I show, but with the failure of our government to translate American values into American policies.

More - Jeffrey Sachs American economist

Sachs? Seriously?

How is his call for a parliamentary system not anti-American? Do you seriously want to completely end the checks and balances in the Constitution to prevent the consolidation of power into the hands of the elite political class?

Sachs is echoing Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Jeremy Bentha. Rousseau theory of the general will is totalitarianism at its worst, and Bentha advocated for a utopia where his ideals were in complete control. Can you actually defend that as being anything like the Founding Fathers wanted for this country?

Maybe you should try actually reading Sachs before you rely on his defense of a book that Ryan actually read thoroughly, and paid attention to. You just chose the best possible example to prove that progressivism is the modern day equivalent of fascism, and proved you are completely ignorant on the subject.

 

[kaz]

According to R.J. Pestritto, author of American Progressivism, “America’s original Progressives were also its original, big-government liberals.”

Today the only difference between a liberal and a progressive is that a liberal is someone who doesn't like the word progressive so they say there's a difference even though they can't find an actual policy difference.

A true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they would be free to provide actual effective help to other people. But liberals drank the progressive big government solves all kool aid and sold out the poor, blacks, women, the environment and everything else they claim to value in the ridiculous view that sameness = fairness and socialism will solve all even as it solves nothing.

 

[Intense]

You have gone off the deep end. You are now putting Glenn Beck to shame. You mind is being rotted by propaganda. The brainwashing is complete.

If anything, the reformist president of the Progressive Era, once a great icon of democrats worldwide, has been flayed more often by the left—for his idealistic internationalism (given a bad name by George W. Bush), his wartime suppression of dissent (of which Bush, again, reminded liberals), and his racist predilections (a stain on his record now impossible to ignore). The right had largely ignored or forgotten him.

Until now. Thanks largely to Glenn Beck, who in turn seems to have been influenced by a tiny cluster of academics at conservative outposts like Hillsdale College, Wilson has emerged as the Tea Party's No. 1 "President You Need to Hate," as he's described on the "Beck University" Web site, the talk-show host's repository of baroque counter-histories.

Yes Master. I will submit to re indoctrination Immediately.

My end results in the celebration of Free Will and positive direction.

Your end results in subjugation and equal misery, by the consent of the Empire.

I am not offended by you using your will to conform, to follow, to raise your hand for permission to use the Rest Room.

You however are offended by Free Will, something you cannot understand. Your Religion is not about God, it is about Government, that is why you fear Liberty. You have got to let go of the yearn for Control and Subjugation of Others and Free Yourself. Find Conscience. There is Nothing God can't make Right.

You fail to understand, God first in All things, so in that, You are not yet free. You want to assassinate My character because we cannot come to terms. I cannot submit to your will, you can neither buy it or force it. You cannot accept that before God, He determines what is fair, what is of value, and it is for us to accept, each concerned about Our Own path. Each an example , be it for better or worse.

Everything that questions your will, challenges your perspective, shines a light on your short comings, you seek to villainize, without question.

You are obsessed with Beck. You cannot be Him, you cannot have Him, get over it. I seek to discuss, you seek to destroy what you can't control. Why is that? Why do your kind throw everything under the bus they cannot leash, anything that does not march in lock step? Progressive Fascism? Is that what it really is? Another flavor of Totalitarianism. Run that by Central Control will you? How about picking me up a Coke on the way back? Off to the Dentist.

So, Intense, what I gather from your chants is the the law of the jungle is the only way to be free. Social Darwinism...

Keep this one little detail in mind...what our founding fathers created and is the seminal achievement of their lives was government, not a jungle.

Fail. They created a Government to serve the needs of a Society, not a Society to serve the needs of Government. Government is to establish Justice and serve it, not undermine it for it's own convenience. Principle before what is convenient. If the action is arbitrary, it is false.

 

[Intense]

According to R.J. Pestritto, author of American Progressivism, “America’s original Progressives were also its original, big-government liberals.”

Today the only difference between a liberal and a progressive is that a liberal is someone who doesn't like the word progressive so they say there's a difference even though they can't find an actual policy difference.

A true liberal would be a political libertarian because that is the only way they would be free to provide actual effective help to other people. But liberals drank the progressive big government solves all kool aid and sold out the poor, blacks, women, the environment and everything else they claim to value in the ridiculous view that sameness = fairness and socialism will solve all even as it solves nothing.

Agreed. Abandoning the Principles of Classic Liberalism to obtain Power and stifle criticism rather than address it. If they were transparent, those ranks would fall quickly.

 

[Bfgrn]

So, Intense, what I gather from your chants is the the law of the jungle is the only way to be free. Social Darwinism...

Keep this one little detail in mind...what our founding fathers created and is the seminal achievement of their lives was government, not a jungle.

Way to ignore the substance of the entire conversation in favor of invoking the tired old "ANARCHIST!" strawman.

And you wonder why people like me don't take your manic brain droppings seriously?

How ironic. You are only capable of blurting out syllables and half sentences in Dudebonics.