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rise of Christian nationalism????? another myth like white supremacy
what your quote said didn’t say it was either, but on judie-christian values...not a christian nationI don't think everyone that supports what you quoted eariler is a "sin and salvation" Christian either
Thats right. But most sin and salvation Christians such as Black Evangelical Protestant Christians do not promote the false history that America was founded as a Christian Nation.
what your quote said didn’t say it was either, but on judie-christian values...not a christian nation
what your quote said didn’t say it was either, but on judie-christian values...not a christian nation
"The Origins of American Religious Nationalism."
By Sam Haselby Sam Haselby is a historian, an editor at Aeon Magazine and the author of "The Origins of American Religious Nationalism."July 4, 2017 at 6:00 AM EDT
Then, as now, most Christians in the world were Catholics. Claiming that people moved by deep prejudice against most of world’s Christians wanted to form a “Christian nation” makes no sense. The problem cannot be solved by simply devolving to “Protestant nation.” Britain was known as the sword and shield of Protestantism, set against a hostile Catholic Continent. In what form of Protestantism, exactly, did the United States rise up in rebellion against the 18th-century world’s standard-bearer of Protestantism? Possible answers quickly begin to look rather sectarian, rendering any understanding of “Christian nation” into something very narrow, perhaps some kind of provincial country denomination.
So there are insuperable obstacles to the Christian nationalist position. But there is also a neglected and fascinating history, key to American independence. Quite simply, America’s first patriots were acutely Christian and did envision, at least, an acutely Christian, which to them meant Protestant, nation. They issued the first calls for American independence. More specifically, America’s first nationalist movement was a small group of young New England writers at Yale College who were fiercely Christian. Timothy Dwight and John Trumbull were the group’s founding members, and by 1769, at the Yale College commencement, they publicly protested for American independence. Noah Webster, of dictionary fame, would later come into the group, too.
These young writers, who called themselves the Connecticut Wits, were terrible poets, but they were visionary American nationalists. Dwight’s epic poem, “The Conquest of Canaan,” portrayed an independent America as the new Holy Land. He began it in 1771. Most Americans, by contrast, supported reconciliation with Britain well into 1776. Years later, Dwight would complain that for their early, open advocacy of American independence they had suffered years of ridicule and contempt. John Trumbull’s 1773 poem “An Elegy of the Times” is a clear, repeated call, steeped in New England Protestantism, for nationalist revolution. Though I’ve never met anyone today who has read it, Trumbull’s 1775 poem “M’Fingal” was the best-selling poem of the American Revolution. It went through 30 editions, a feat no other American poet managed until Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in 1847. M’Fingal is a lampoon of the Scottish Enlightenment and a sclerotic Great Britain in the name of enlightened and vital independent, Protestant America.
One, ironically, is that the Wits wrote too much, in too much detail, about how Christian America should look. As a result, it’s obvious that their vision does not easily fit with that of today’s Christian nationalists. America’s 18th-century Christian nationalists, for example, were interested in God and theologizing. Today’s Christian nationalists prefer Jesus and evangelizing. America’s 18th-century Christian nationalists wanted the state to regulate almost every aspect of life, from education to commerce to religion. Today’s Christian nationalists depend politically on an alliance with anti-statist capitalists; indeed, this in some ways odd alliance forms the basis of modern conservatism.
Second, in the story of American national history, America’s 18th-century Christian nationalists are losers. They lost a battle for political control of the United States to the deists Jefferson and Madison, and to the rest of the Southern planters, whom they despised. In December 1814 and January 1815, during the War of 1812, these early Christian nationalists’ alienation culminated in the Hartford Convention, in which a group of their close allies, state and federal officeholders from Connecticut and Massachusetts, met and issued a series of demands. Their most radical demand? They wanted the three-fifths clause, which in effect gave Southern planters 66 votes for every 100 slaves they owned, banished from the U.S. Constitution. If their demands were not met, the Hartford Convention threatened to secede from the United States. The threat misjudged the political climate, however, and helped destroy the Federalist Party that served their political vehicle.
Jefferson exulted at the Hartford Convention’s miscalculation — their “mortification,” he called it. Under any other government, he wrote, “their treasons would have been punished by the halter,” that is by execution. Hartford, to Jefferson, illustrated the New Englanders’ “religious and political tyranny.” He compared them to prostitutes, “bawds,” who found in religion “a refuge from the despair of their loathsome vices.” Strong words, from one of America’s founders, against the first American patriots, and the country’s original Christian nationalists
What's being shoved down your throats? Be specific.
For fifty years I had to hear The falsehoods about the religious, philosophical beliefs, their genius, and secular minded vision of the men who established the greatest nation that is my good fortune to be my country of origin
When Trump embraced the white evangelical Christian purveyors of the false Christian Nation founding to get elected, that is having that lie shoved down the throat of the every Christians and not-Christian American who knows better.
Most Democrat Voters are Progressive Bigots who loath Christians."
WASHINGTON (RNS) — A Democratic group dedicated to representing secular values unveiled a slate of recommendations for President-elect Joe Biden’s incoming administration on Monday (Nov. 30), outlining a sweeping agenda designed to roll back many of President Trump’s actions involving religion and to “restore a vision of constitutional secularism.”
The 28-page document, crafted by the Secular Democrats of America PAC, is being presented to the incoming administration by Democratic Representatives Jamie Raskin and Jared Huffman — both co-chairs of the Congressional Freethought Caucus.
The SDA’s agenda offers a wide range of policy recommendations to push back against the so-called “Christian nationalist movement,” which the the group describes as an “extraordinarily well-funded and well-organized” phenomenon whose “extreme and sectarian agenda (was) on constant display under the Trump-Pence administration.”
Citing rise of 'Christian nationalism,' Secular Democrats unveil sweeping recommendations for Biden
WASHINGTON (RNS) — Authors suggested Biden use ‘E Pluribus Unum’ — Latin for ‘out of many, one’ — instead of ‘In God We Trust’ and repeal the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.religionnews.com
Work with Congress to incentivize states to increase their vaccination rates by repealing all nonmedical exemptions to mandatory vaccination for children in schools and day care centers. States like California and New York have taken such actions, but only after experiencing severe outbreaks of measles and whooping cough. Parents and children have the right to a school environment free of vaccine preventable diseases. The most vulnerable among us who are medically ineligible for vaccination depend on herd immunity to protect them.
Move along, nothing see here....well except for a direct attack on Religious Liberties that is.
The Heathen Caucus is not just anti Christian but anti American alsoFeed em to the lions!
Do we even have that many lions available?
Church and state are separated for good reasons.
Too much blurring of those lines in the last four decades.
No one is attacking your right to practice your religion.
We just don't want it shoved down our throats...that's all.
1) no that's true...as we have discussed...our Founders were greatly influenced by Judeo-Christian valueswhat your quote said didn’t say it was either, but on judie-christian values...not a christian nation
Are you referring to this?
Christian Nationalism is all about Founding Father visions for this country — the ones that say our guiding principles are those rooted in Judeo-Christianity; the ones that say America is indeed exceptional because America was indeed blessed by God at the beginning; the ones that say this country did indeed have a covenant with God, called the Mayflower Compact; the ones that say it’s this basic beginning that led to all the greatness that America was, is and truly will be.
If so this is not true: “Founding Father visions for this country — the ones that say our guiding principles are those rooted in Judeo-Christianity”
If so this is not true:; “the ones that say America is indeed exceptional because America was indeed blessed by God at the beginning;”
If so this is not true: “the ones that say this country did indeed have a covenant with God, called the Mayflower Compact;”
If so this is not true:: “the ones that say it’s this basic beginning that led to all the greatness that America was, is and truly will be.
So, why do you hate The United States?
1) no that's true...as we have discussed...our Founders were greatly influenced by Judeo-Christian values
2) Yes....America is indeed exceptional...that is true
i don’t think it’s a requirement either nor does what you quote say it’s a requirement2) Yes....America is indeed exceptional...that is true
America is indeed exceptional but not for the Christian Nationalist reason stated here:
America is indeed exceptional because America was indeed blessed by God at the beginning;
Belief in God, his only begotten son, and his son’s virgin mother or any God or religion is not a requirement to being an American and the founding fathers enshrined that in the Constitution. Its left to each individual. if believers wish to believe their God blessed the founding of America thst all well and good. I am happy fir your belief. But that is not at all why I believe America is exceptional. So don’t shove it down my throat that my America was founded as a Christian Nation.
yes we were influenced greatly by judeo-christian values. You are arguing in circles1) no that's true...as we have discussed...our Founders were greatly influenced by Judeo-Christian values
Not exclusively. And. so was the British Crown. Every conscious human being living in Europe and the New World was greatly influenced by Judeo-Christian values.
The Founding Fathers spiritually and intellectually were operating on a level much higher than the mass of humanity with respect to their other than Christian education in philosophy and science. The first four presidents looked at the bloody tyrannical history of Christianity in Europe as something to reject when establishing what they visualized what Anerica should be. The first four presidents rejected sin and salvation organized Christianity (the church) in their personal lives. It is a severe injustice to their legacy to insist they founded a Christian Nation simply because they were born of Christianized European descent, It must be remembered that the history of the tyranny and horrors of sin and salvation Christianity in Europe was fresh in their highly educated minds.
Its not easy to explain specifically to sin and salvation Christians, so I’ll let a born again high ranking Evangelical Christian leader explain why America should not be identified as a Christian Nation or say it was founded as one.
He explains my views better than I ever could.
WORLD: So what's wrong with "claiming that America once was, and ought to return to being, a Christian nation"?
LAND: As an evangelical Christian I believe the phrase "Christian nation" has connotations of a redeemed nation. A Christian is someone who has a personal relationship with Jesus and has entered into a redeemed state. As an evangelical Christian, I would never want to claim that for any nation. There is no nation in history that has been made up completely of born-again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Secondly, this nation was founded by many people who were operating largely out of what Francis Schaeffer would call a "Christian memory." They still accepted a Judeo-Christian value system, although some were Deists and some were committed Christians. Many of them were people like Thomas Jefferson, who issued his own edition of the Gospels in which he kept the teachings of Jesus, but eliminated all claims to Messiahship and all miraculous elements.
Many others were operating from a Judeo-Christian worldview and accepted Jesus as the Savior, while not necessarily accepting Him as their Savior in the sense I as an evangelical would understand that personal commitment and personal conversion experience. Even after the First Great Awakening, it would be erroneous to assume that anywhere close to a majority of people who lived in the American colonies prior to the Revolutionary War were born-again Christians as evangelicals understand it.
A "Christian nation" would have to be a nation where virtually the entire population were born-again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, and their societal institutions, including their government, would reflect a value system that would be put together by an overwhelming consensus of born-again Christians. That was not the case in the Colonial, the Revolutionary, the post-Revolutionary, the early Federal period, or any period since.
1) no that's true...as we have discussed...our Founders were greatly influenced by Judeo-Christian values
yes we were influenced greatly by judeo-christian values.
You are arguing in circles
A Christian is someone who has a personal relationship with Jesus and has entered into a redeemed state.
Secondly, this nation was founded by many people who were operating largely out of what Francis Schaeffer would call a "Christian memory." They still accepted a Judeo-Christian value system, although some were Deists and some were committed Christians. Many of them were people like Thomas Jefferson, who issued his own edition of the Gospels in which he kept the teachings of Jesus, but eliminated all claims to Messiahship and all miraculous elements.
I didn't say it was founded as a Christian Nation...actually I have stated the opposite...we aren't. We were however founded on Judeo-Christian values. What are they? Read the Dec of Independence for example. The idea of Locke etc.1) no that's true...as we have discussed...our Founders were greatly influenced by Judeo-Christian values
How does that Make America “founded as a Christian Nation” ?
What are Judeo/Christian Values?
What sets Christians apart from non-Christians? Is it the firm belief that Jesus Christ died in the Crfor all humanity’ sins?
only if you believe that can you be saved from burning in hell for all eternity.
Our first four presidents rejected the Christian doctrine of original sin.
Your response does not make a case that America was founded as a Christian Nation.
Do you have a better argument moving forward?
I frankly, have no idea where you got the idea that I ever said we were founded as a Christian Nation. We were, and are a secular nation.....our Govt doesn't recognize one religion, or have a State religion.yes we were influenced greatly by judeo-christian values.
I responded that the flounders were influenced by Judeo-christian values but that so was the entire European world. So why does that common, historically often violent and bloody European Christian influence became justification for you telling me that America was founded as a Christian Nation?
Thats the question you have not answered. I am not arguing in a circle. I’m arguing with a non- response?
I am a Christian as defined by the defination...I believe in Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.....not by what some guy name Richard Land says.You are arguing in circles
Are you a Christian as defined by Richard Land in what I posted earlier and again in this excerpt :
A Christian is someone who has a personal relationship with Jesus and has entered into a redeemed state.
Do you agree with RLand on this:
Secondly, this nation was founded by many people who were operating largely out of what Francis Schaeffer would call a "Christian memory." They still accepted a Judeo-Christian value system, although some were Deists and some were committed Christians. Many of them were people like Thomas Jefferson, who issued his own edition of the Gospels in which he kept the teachings of Jesus, but eliminated all claims to Messiahship and all miraculous elements.
i don’t think it’s a requirement either nor does what you quote say it’s a requirement
