Citigroup

[Munin]

I yesterday (29/03/2009) bought Citi ("C" on NYSE) stocks at $2.39 and $2.37. I m in it for the long run, what do you guys think of this?

I m now anxiously awaiting the stress test ...

 

[Paulie]

I don't think it's a good time to get into C yet for a buy and hold, but that's because I think we're going to double bottom in a W pattern before the real bull market starts.

 

[Munin]

Maybe I m too optimistic, but I think we re already getting into a bull market.

the signs I see: we have the highest unemployment peak now behind us, huge raw material stockpiles (low oil prices, low ... prices), people have saved a lot of money and have been postphoning purchases (but you can't keep doing that: at some point you have to start buying), gold price is going down significantly (which means investors are coming out of their save heavens and starting to invest again), first effects of stimulus are getting through, FED and treasury department are in the game and agressively working towards improvement of the market, ...

 

[Valerie]

Maybe I m too optimistic, but I think we re already getting into a bull market.

the signs I see: we have the highest unemployment peak now behind us, huge raw material stockpiles (low oil prices, low ... prices), people have saved a lot of money and have been postphoning purchases (but you can't keep doing that: at some point you have to start buying), gold price is going down significantly (which means investors are coming out of their save heavens and starting to invest again), first effects of stimulus are getting through, FED and treasury department are in the game and agressively working towards improvement of the market, ...

You're not alone, Munin!

A Pitched Battle for Turf Between the Bears and the Bulls
by Jack Healy
Tuesday, March 31, 2009

The bulls and the bears never agree. But what is remarkable is that the rift between these two Wall Street camps seems to be widening. This month, after the stock market staged one of its biggest rallies since the Depression, optimists like Douglas A. Kass, a prominent hedge fund manager, buzzed that the worst was over. Finally, after a 401(k)-busting, 7,722-point plunge in the Dow Jones industrial average, the stock market seemed to be escaping bear territory, the bulls argued.

Investors who in recent weeks snapped up oil and technology stocks, as well as beaten-down financial shares like Citigroup, have made a lot of money, at least on paper. They hope that some less-than-awful numbers from the housing and industrial sectors signal that the global recession is scraping bottom.

To some, stocks are irresistibly cheap right now. The price-to-earnings ratio on the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index is 12 to 13, lower than its historical average of closer to 17.

But the bears are unbowed. Skeptics like Robert L. Rodriguez, another money manager, argue that the March gains were nothing more than a suckers’ rally — a brief respite before another, even bigger roar of the bear market.
http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement...ulls?sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD

 

[Valerie]

Maybe I m too optimistic, but I think we re already getting into a bull market.

the signs I see: we have the highest unemployment peak now behind us, huge raw material stockpiles (low oil prices, low ... prices), people have saved a lot of money and have been postphoning purchases (but you can't keep doing that: at some point you have to start buying), gold price is going down significantly (which means investors are coming out of their save heavens and starting to invest again), first effects of stimulus are getting through, FED and treasury department are in the game and agressively working towards improvement of the market, ...

You're not alone, Munin!

A Pitched Battle for Turf Between the Bears and the Bulls
by Jack Healy
Tuesday, March 31, 2009

The bulls and the bears never agree. But what is remarkable is that the rift between these two Wall Street camps seems to be widening. This month, after the stock market staged one of its biggest rallies since the Depression, optimists like Douglas A. Kass, a prominent hedge fund manager, buzzed that the worst was over. Finally, after a 401(k)-busting, 7,722-point plunge in the Dow Jones industrial average, the stock market seemed to be escaping bear territory, the bulls argued.

Investors who in recent weeks snapped up oil and technology stocks, as well as beaten-down financial shares like Citigroup, have made a lot of money, at least on paper. They hope that some less-than-awful numbers from the housing and industrial sectors signal that the global recession is scraping bottom.

To some, stocks are irresistibly cheap right now. The price-to-earnings ratio on the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index is 12 to 13, lower than its historical average of closer to 17.

But the bears are unbowed. Skeptics like Robert L. Rodriguez, another money manager, argue that the March gains were nothing more than a suckers’ rally — a brief respite before another, even bigger roar of the bear market.
http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement...ulls?sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD

More from the same article:

Many analysts have said that financial companies, which plunged the markets into crisis, will be the ones to lead the way to higher ground, and Mr. Kass said he was cheered to see big banks leading the March rally. The S.& P. Financials Index rose 33 percent from March 9 through Monday, while the broader S.& P. 500 gained 16 percent.

Commodity prices for metals and oil began to rise, signaling a hint of inflation and a chance that economic growth could find a foothold, he said. And he said he was encouraged by a bouquet of better-than-expected reports from the housing and retail sectors.

Given the speed of the rally, however, Mr. Kass wrote a note on Friday saying that investors might seize the opportunity to raise cash and take profits. But he said he was still convinced that “the U.S. stock market will rise to levels higher than most anticipate,” by as much as 25 percent by summer.

Mr. Kass said he liked companies like Home Depot, Lowe’s, the Walt Disney Company and real estate investment trusts.

Even optimistic investors warn that a recovery in stocks will not look like a steady climb, and they say that economic growth may be slow for some time. But as stocks have picked back up, Mr. Kass said, he has noticed a new concern among investors.

“The fear of being out has begun to replace the fear of being in,” he said.

What optimists do not understand, says Mr. Rodriguez, chief executive of First Pacific Advisors, is that the United States is being profoundly reshaped by this recession.

“We’ve crossed over into a new financial era,” he said. “You don’t know what the ground rules are. You don’t even know what the shape of the playing field is.”

Economic growth may be stagnant for years, even after the economy hits bottom. Corporate profits may not bounce back. And the high hopes for recovery that have helped drive stocks higher this month may yet crumble.

Stock markets rose 10 percent or more several times during the Depression, the early 1970s and other downturns, only to lose their momentum and give back months of gains. As bearish experts warn, market bottoms come only when investors give up hope of ever seeing a bottom.

“This rally that’s going on may prove ephemeral,” Mr. Rodriguez said. “I still think we have a very long, arduous journey ahead of us.”

 

[Valerie]

Maybe I m too optimistic, but I think we re already getting into a bull market.

the signs I see: we have the highest unemployment peak now behind us, huge raw material stockpiles (low oil prices, low ... prices), people have saved a lot of money and have been postphoning purchases (but you can't keep doing that: at some point you have to start buying), gold price is going down significantly (which means investors are coming out of their save heavens and starting to invest again), first effects of stimulus are getting through, FED and treasury department are in the game and agressively working towards improvement of the market, ...

As the recession drags on, American consumers, who powered the economy for decades, will rediscover the notion of thrift, Mr. Rodriguez said.

The personal saving rate, which skidded to zero as Americans tapped their home equity to finance their lifestyles, rebounded to 4.2 percent in February, the government reported last week. Historically, Americans have saved 6 to 8 percent of their income, and the more they pile into savings accounts, the less they will give to a range of corporations.

Mr. Rodriguez said there were too many question marks around earnings to convince him that the recent market rally would stick.

“The stock market will be very volatile, and corporate profitability will be very volatile,” Mr. Rodriguez said. “There are large segments of the United States economy that will never come back.”
http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement...ulls?sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD

 

[Valerie]

I yesterday (29/03/2009) bought Citi ("C" on NYSE) stocks at $2.39 and $2.37. I m in it for the long run, what do you guys think of this?

I m now anxiously awaiting the stress test ...

All that being said, this stock scares the crap out of me! They're losing money. Earlier this month it was below a dollar. It could easily go back there real quick. Even if you lose just fifty cents, you're losing twenty percent! Of course the loss is not realized until you sell, and you said you plan on holding.

It just closed below it's 50 day moving average.
Quotes for C - Yahoo! Finance

I would maybe risk it for a quick flip, but there are better long term holds than this volatile stomach turner of a stock, IMO. Good luck! Of course if it goes up a dollar, it's a brilliant move, but I would sell on the rally and get into something with solid earnings and a good dividend for the long term.

 

[Munin]

for the moment almost all bank stocks scare the crap out of me, especially the ones that say they re going to return the TARP money. Why the hell did they ask for it in the first place if they re giving it away now?

I have the impression that some banks are saying it just so their stocks can go up, maybe those bankingstocks will fall of a cliff when the stress test comes. I m not worried of citigroup falling of a cliff, the advantage of citigroup is that everyone knows its weakenesses and the stocks will rise quicker because of that (remember march 10? -> article below)

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street has had its best day of the year, storming higher after some good news from Citigroup. Citigroup Inc. says it operated at a profit during the first two months of the year. That energized financial stocks and in turn, the entire stock market. Surprised investors drove the major indexes up more than 5.5 percent to their biggest one-day rally of the year. The Dow Jones industrials shot up nearly 380 points.

However, many analysts are still cautious -- noting that Wall Street has seen many blips higher since the credit crisis and recession began. Word of Citi's performance broke a months-long torrent of bad news from the banking industry but analysts weren't ready to say the stock market was at a turning point and about to barrel higher after a slide that's lasted more than 16 months.

"To have a sustained rally, we have to have a shift in sentiment," said Kurt Karl, chief U.S. economist at Swiss Re. "One day isn't going to make a trend."

Still, the Citigroup news offered investors some hope that the first quarter will show signs of improvement.

In a letter to employees Monday, Citi Chief Executive Vikram Pandit said the performance this year has been the bank's best since the third quarter of 2007 -- the last time it booked a profit for a full quarter. Based on historical revenue and expense rates, Citi's projected earnings before taxes and one-time charges would be about $8.3 billion for the full quarter.

Pandit declined to say how large credit losses and other one-time items have been that would at least partially offset profit.

Citi surged 38 percent while Bank of America Corp. jumped 27.7 percent. The stocks are among the 30 that make up the Dow. All the components of the index climbed Tuesday.

Financial stocks have been at the center of the market collapse that has left the major indexes at their lowest point in more than a decade. Reports of losses on bad loans and write-offs on shrinking assets have pounded banking stocks; Citi fell below $1 a share last week. Analysts have been worrying that hundreds of billions of dollars in government bailouts wouldn't be enough to save the big banks.

Dow ends up nearly 380 on Citigroup profit news - Yahoo! Finance

 

[manu1959]

for the moment all bank companies scare the crap out of me, especially the ones that say they re going to return the TARP money. Why the hell did they ask for it in the first place if they re giving it away now?

I have the impression that some banks are saying it just so their stocks can go up, maybe those bankingstocks will fall of a cliff when the stress test comes. I m not worried of citigroup falling of a cliff, the advantage of citigroup is that everyone knows its weakenesses and the stocks will rise quicker because of that (remember march 10? -> article below)

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street has had its best day of the year, storming higher after some good news from Citigroup. Citigroup Inc. says it operated at a profit during the first two months of the year. That energized financial stocks and in turn, the entire stock market. Surprised investors drove the major indexes up more than 5.5 percent to their biggest one-day rally of the year. The Dow Jones industrials shot up nearly 380 points.

However, many analysts are still cautious -- noting that Wall Street has seen many blips higher since the credit crisis and recession began. Word of Citi's performance broke a months-long torrent of bad news from the banking industry but analysts weren't ready to say the stock market was at a turning point and about to barrel higher after a slide that's lasted more than 16 months.

"To have a sustained rally, we have to have a shift in sentiment," said Kurt Karl, chief U.S. economist at Swiss Re. "One day isn't going to make a trend."

Still, the Citigroup news offered investors some hope that the first quarter will show signs of improvement.

In a letter to employees Monday, Citi Chief Executive Vikram Pandit said the performance this year has been the bank's best since the third quarter of 2007 -- the last time it booked a profit for a full quarter. Based on historical revenue and expense rates, Citi's projected earnings before taxes and one-time charges would be about $8.3 billion for the full quarter.

Pandit declined to say how large credit losses and other one-time items have been that would at least partially offset profit.

Citi surged 38 percent while Bank of America Corp. jumped 27.7 percent. The stocks are among the 30 that make up the Dow. All the components of the index climbed Tuesday.

Financial stocks have been at the center of the market collapse that has left the major indexes at their lowest point in more than a decade. Reports of losses on bad loans and write-offs on shrinking assets have pounded banking stocks; Citi fell below $1 a share last week. Analysts have been worrying that hundreds of billions of dollars in government bailouts wouldn't be enough to save the big banks.

Dow ends up nearly 380 on Citigroup profit news - Yahoo! Finance

some of the banks did not ask for the money....it was "forced on them"....wells fargo for one....

 

[DavidS]

I think Obama is going to fire the Citi CEO. Watch what that does to their stock.

 

[wimpy77]

for the moment all bank companies scare the crap out of me, especially the ones that say they re going to return the TARP money. Why the hell did they ask for it in the first place if they re giving it away now?

I have the impression that some banks are saying it just so their stocks can go up, maybe those bankingstocks will fall of a cliff when the stress test comes. I m not worried of citigroup falling of a cliff, the advantage of citigroup is that everyone knows its weakenesses and the stocks will rise quicker because of that (remember march 10? -> article below)

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street has had its best day of the year, storming higher after some good news from Citigroup. Citigroup Inc. says it operated at a profit during the first two months of the year. That energized financial stocks and in turn, the entire stock market. Surprised investors drove the major indexes up more than 5.5 percent to their biggest one-day rally of the year. The Dow Jones industrials shot up nearly 380 points.

However, many analysts are still cautious -- noting that Wall Street has seen many blips higher since the credit crisis and recession began. Word of Citi's performance broke a months-long torrent of bad news from the banking industry but analysts weren't ready to say the stock market was at a turning point and about to barrel higher after a slide that's lasted more than 16 months.

"To have a sustained rally, we have to have a shift in sentiment," said Kurt Karl, chief U.S. economist at Swiss Re. "One day isn't going to make a trend."

Still, the Citigroup news offered investors some hope that the first quarter will show signs of improvement.

In a letter to employees Monday, Citi Chief Executive Vikram Pandit said the performance this year has been the bank's best since the third quarter of 2007 -- the last time it booked a profit for a full quarter. Based on historical revenue and expense rates, Citi's projected earnings before taxes and one-time charges would be about $8.3 billion for the full quarter.

Pandit declined to say how large credit losses and other one-time items have been that would at least partially offset profit.

Citi surged 38 percent while Bank of America Corp. jumped 27.7 percent. The stocks are among the 30 that make up the Dow. All the components of the index climbed Tuesday.

Financial stocks have been at the center of the market collapse that has left the major indexes at their lowest point in more than a decade. Reports of losses on bad loans and write-offs on shrinking assets have pounded banking stocks; Citi fell below $1 a share last week. Analysts have been worrying that hundreds of billions of dollars in government bailouts wouldn't be enough to save the big banks.

Dow ends up nearly 380 on Citigroup profit news - Yahoo! Finance

some of the banks did not ask for the money....it was "forced on them"....wells fargo for one....

yep some companies like goldman sachs and jpmorgan were forced to take it.

 

[Munin]

I would maybe risk it for a quick flip, but there are better long term holds than this volatile stomach turner of a stock, IMO. Good luck! Of course if it goes up a dollar, it's a brilliant move, but I would sell on the rally and get into something with solid earnings and a good dividend for the long term.

C - Citigroup Inc. - Google Finance

 

[editec]

How much money have we given then so far?

 

[Munin]

How much money have we given then so far?

taxpayermoney? or investment?


my investment is about 542 shares, not really that much because I m spreading my portfolio.

 

[waltky]

Pandit the bandit steps down...

Citigroup boss Vikram Pandit resigns
16 October 2012 - Mr Pandit said Citigroup was "well-positioned for continued profitability and growth"

Citigroup chief executive Vikram Pandit has surprised Wall Street by resigning with immediate effect. Mr Pandit is being replaced by Michael Corbat, who was previously the bank's chief for Europe, the Middle East and Africa. In a statement, Citigroup praised Mr Pandit for his "leadership, integrity and resilience in guiding Citi through the crisis". Mr Pandit had been appointed chief executive in December 2007. News of his departure comes a day after the bank reported an 88% drop in quarterly profits to $468m (£291m). However, the drop was mainly due to a $4.7bn charge from reducing the value of its stake in the Morgan Stanley Smith Barney joint venture that it is selling, and the overall profit was better than expected. In a conference call after the markets had closed, Citi chairman Michael O'Neill said Mr Pandit's departure was not due to any "strategic, regulatory or operating issue".

Pressed by analysts to explain what had changed overnight, Mr O'Neill said: "Vikram offered his resignation and the board accepted it." He added that Mr Corbat "for some time has been at the centre of the board's comprehensive management and CEO succession and planning process". Mr Corbat paid tribute to his predecessor, saying Mr Pandit had "laid the foundation for Citi's long-term growth". "I look forward to taking on the challenge of continuing what Vikram started," he said. Citigroup's president and chief operating officer, John Havens, has also resigned. The bank said that Mr Havens had already been planning to retire at the end of the year, but in the light of Mr Pandit's departure had decided to leave at the same time.

Compensation

The Citigroup boss is credited with slimming the bank by selling businesses and removing it from government ownership after a bailout in 2008. Mr Pandit earned $1 as his salary in 2009 and 2010 but because of the bank's return to profitability, the board increased his salary to $1.75m and total compensation to $15m in 2011. As part of a wave of shareholder protests over executive pay, Citigroup's stockholders voted against his pay in April in a non-binding vote. He also received tens of millions from Citigroup when the bank bought his hedge fund in 2007.

In August this year, Citigroup paid $590m to shareholders who had accused the bank of hiding the scale of its exposure to sub-prime mortgages. Citigroup denied the allegation but said it wanted to avoid further legal costs. The payout is one of the biggest settlements connected to the global financial crisis which began four years ago. "I think Vikram has some regulatory baggage," said Anthony Polini, an analyst at Raymond James. "I don't think he was very liked by the regulators. I think they, for whatever reason, had some disagreements." "The announcement of Corbat is a big plus for the company, he has great leadership capabilities."

'Right time'

 

[Paulie]

I don't think it's a good time to get into C yet for a buy and hold, but that's because I think we're going to double bottom in a W pattern before the real bull market starts.

Don't take investment advice from me